Open 176 - Night Watch - GAME OVER

[Gregory]

guys, I will post more tomorrow ( a lot more I hope),
I'm too busy with school right now,


sorry

[DeathRowKitty]

Hmm.. hewitt is called out for pushing a pro-scum strategy and suddenly he is clueless about basic hider strategy. Nevermind that the hider role is detailed in the opening posts and the Hider role is detailed in the mafia wiki.

As much as I'd like to say not understanding the hider strategy is a scum-tell, game I got the idea from points to it not being a scum-tell.
I didn't particularly like this post from RayFrost. It seems he's just adding votes to someone opportunistically, especially considering SA did post content (IMO). Speaking of which,

unvote

. Definitely not enough for a vote on RF though.

So, are we doing that hypoclaim or what?

If everyone's agreed to it, I don't see why not. I'll check that after this post.

General comments about the hypoclaim

• Don't give the same name for Night 0 and Night 1.
• Say you hid behind someone Night 0 if and only if you did/would have hidden behind someone Night 0. Possibly obvious, but if someone who was against hiding Night 0 (a couple of people already said they wouldn't have hid) and claims a Night 0 target, it's fairly obvious that person isn't the hider.

As for the KK/scien situation, I don't particularly like either of them. A few posts ago, i would have said KK was scummier, but I liked his last post, so now I'm not so sure. Yes, I'm basically fencesitting right now.

[hewitt]

I predict that Hewitt calls me scum in his next post because I'm a threat to him now and votes for either me or Charter.

That was a pretty silly statement. The problem with statements like this is once the player gets a chance to respond back it paints them as scum if they call out things you do as scummy and if they don't then it looks like they're playing weak. That was a nice attempt at trying to make me look bad no matter what my response is. Your points against me mean nothing to me though.

As an aside to the whole Hewitt thing, I never saw a slip that suggested that he was not legitimately confused about how the hider worked. Does someone want to point me in that direction? If he was honestly confused, I can see almost every post of his making sense from someone who doesn't know the mechanics yet. And that seems to be about half Hewitt's posts.

Yeah when things confuse me sometimes I have a problem not shutting my mouth when it should be. My bad but hey at least I get it now.

[RayFrost]

DRK:

We disagree regarding SA, then. I don't really see how it (the vote) is opportunistic, considering that:

1. I was the first one to even say what I was saying (nobody even hinted at it~)

2. there aren't any other serious votes on SA (IIRC)

Do explain what you feel is so opportunistic about my vote.

[DeathRowKitty]

Well, I wouldn't say my vote on him was un-serious. The fact that he could be qualified as a lurker for the most part and as soon as he made a decent post (in terms of content level), you voted him for IIoA, which, even when I try to look at it from your perspective, is a bit of a questionable charge IMO.

[RayFrost]

Well, I wouldn't say my vote on him was un-serious. The fact that he could be qualified as a lurker for the most part and as soon as he made a decent post (in terms of content level), you voted him for IIoA, which, even when I try to look at it from your perspective, is a bit of a questionable charge IMO.

Do you know of ANY charges that WOULD NOT be questionable in the first 7 pages? If so, by all means do tell.

Also, the italics are

mostly

mere comments taht don't give a solid position, feel, read, etc on it.

[Scien]

First, I really don't like how you're putting scummy words in my mouth. Second, I really don't like how you're putting a scummy spin on the situation.

I'm putting words in your mouth? Where?
I'm spinning what you say into a scummy light? Eh, I would say its there with no spin at all. That's why I am questioning you.

I would argue using your analogy that what you did was less calling "Hey someone call 911" to the crowd to see what reactions you got, and more calling "Hey does someone think this guy needs help" to the crowd to see if it was safe to pursue your course of action.

I'm not claiming I don't understand what you are saying about group dynamics and motives. I understand that. I just don't think that was your motive with this initial statement. It definitly sounded more like polling to me. Can you point out how it wasn't?

This is just weird. I've been active and haven't dodged any questions.

Nice try, I never said you were lurking OR had dodged questions. I said I wanted to hear more from you. There is a difference.

As for the KK/scien situation, I don't particularly like either of them.

Way to not explain why. Anyone can say stuff like that, but its not helpful unless you back it up.

[charter]

Ok, this game is already stagnant. Bandwagon on Hewitt to revive it. The other acceptable target is DRK. They are probably both scum.

[dramonic]

I'm more ready for a SA bandwagon. His play is scummy and he's laying scum-questions.

[charter]

I don't see where SA has asked any questions, other than "what's the plan?". What do you think of Hewitt and DRK?

[dramonic]

I have no issues with keeping Hewitt alive. He's giving me a town vibe.
DRK I could understand, but he's the one who brought up the hypo-claim idea, yes?

[Kublai Khan]

I'm putting words in your mouth? Where?

Bolded.

I understand asking the town how they feel about someone to feel out pairs, but that's not 100% accurate of what you did there. You completely layed out a case to the town and asked them if they bought it. You were not asking about Charter as much as you were asking the town

"hey, can I get away with pushing this?"

I didn't ask that at all. That's *your* spin on the situation.

I'm not claiming I don't understand what you are saying about group dynamics and motives. I understand that. I just don't think that was your motive with this initial statement. It definitly sounded more like polling to me. Can you point out how it wasn't?

Look, I've stated my motives and you've stated what you think my motives are. I can't prove what my motives were any more than you can prove your wild theory. So why are you asking for a negative proof?

@charter: I'm down with a bandwagon on hewitt. He's been dodgy and unhelpful.

unvote; vote: hewitt

[Gregory]

Now that I actually go back and look, Sleepless Assassin isn't posting a whole lot, but he's not really lurking either.

that's not the point. ray is voting him for lurking.

However, pressuring people who fall in to this middle ground is a solid strategy early game, so I don't see anything wrong with RayFrost's vote, other than he didn't really ask any questions to SA.

I agree, but 2 votes is overkill. the first vote should be enough. the second vote doesn't add anything. just a meaningless vote.

Gregory is saying that RayFrost is voting him just so Ray looks like he's doing something, but then Gregory's vote on Ray is pretty much the same thing, just voting Ray to look like he's doing something.

fair, normally, I vote very late, I did different this time.
but there is a difference
Ray is voting SA because of lurking, so He doesn't know anything of him, except that SA hasnt posted a lot.
I am voting ray because he did something meaningless. Unessecary.

I'm not saying ray is scum, I'm not keeping this vote till end of day (unless more stuff is coming) but this was only a vote to give a statement.
I could also have said something of it, and then just let it be.

KK, why do you want to wait with telling who we are going to hide behind?

[charter]

Gregory, I don't know what your fixation with Ray is, but Ray was pretty specific with his reasons when he voted for SA. It wasn't lurking, it was posting information but not analyzing it, which is scummy.

What do you think of Hewitt and DRK, Gregory?

[Sleepless Assassin]

So you guys are saying I don't think Hewitt is scum? I voted him, looked at his posts, said why they look bad, and left my vote. Of course I think he's scum.

[hewitt]

So you guys are saying I don't think Hewitt is scum? I voted him, looked at his posts, said why they look bad, and left my vote. Of course I think he's scum.

The funny thing though is that your points against me don't even make sense. You're trying way too hard to push your vote on me with a really crappy case.

[RayFrost]

Ray is voting SA because of lurking, so He doesn't know anything of him, except that SA hasnt posted a lot.

Wasn't for lurking. Don't mix me up with DRK. Also, misrep/chainsaw is/are noted.

[RayFrost]

So you guys are saying I don't think Hewitt is scum? I voted him, looked at his posts, said why they look bad, and left my vote. Of course I think he's scum.

You may think it wholeheartedly, but you didn't give much of a reason on it.

Looking at it from the "u r haz reasons" perspective:

1. some WIFOM

2. an accusation based off of said WIFOM

3. missing the logic anywhere that is called analysis~

also, EBWOP on previous thing:

misrep / possible chainsaw

[Kaiveran]

Octupis got a visit from the prod man.

I've been really busy and consequently haven't been able to give this game my full attention. Sorry for any inconvenience.

[dramonic]

Well anyways...

If I'm hider I'll go behind Ray tonight

[RayFrost]

If I'm hider, I'll go behind KK tonight.

If I'm hider, I hid behind charter last night.

[Kaiveran]

Votecount #2: La-la-land

hewitt

- 3 - Sleepless Assassin, charter, Kublai Khan

Octupis

- 0 -

DeathRowKitty

- 0 -

Kublai Khan

- 1 - Scien

dramonic

- 0 -

charter

- 0 -

Gregory

- 0 -

Sleepless Assassin

- 1 - RayFrost

RayFrost

- 1 - Gregory

Scien

- 0 -

ekiM

- 0 -

ekiM is due for a prod as well.

[ekiM]

Crap, I can't be here this weekend. I will catch up later this evening.

[ekiM]

Don't do hider hypo-claim yet.

[Kublai Khan]

KK, why do you want to wait with telling who we are going to hide behind?

Stating a hider target at the beginning of Day 1 is pretty much just pure guesswork. Why not have people state their hider choice for Night 1 at the end of the day after they've been able to get some reads on people?

As it stands now, people like dramonic and RayFrost will probably be changing their choices throughout the day as they get new reads.

Reduce confusion, wait until the lynch choice is settled (though obviously not lynched yet--maybe somewhere around L-2 with two people having announced their willingness to hammer.).