Open 176 - Night Watch - GAME OVER

[Kublai Khan]

@all: Is anyone else really weirded out by charter's behaviour in the game so far? [goes on about Charter]

While I agree on most of your Charter points, I think that first sentence is kind of odd. So you think you have a decent set of points against Charter but instead of starting to question him directly, you turn to the town and poll them to see if they share your views? Sounds like you don't want to get your hands dirty unless you think the town agree with you. I don't see a townie motive for that...

Really? Pointing out someone's scummy behavior will always result in that person replying back. So I don't have to address charter specifically.

However asking everyone else to comment on it, especially early in the game, allows me to judge who is opportunistic, who is cautious, who is logical, who is deliberately avoiding the situation, and who is

chainsaw defending

?

(Bold being the one that you're doing, BTW).

[charter]

1)I'm not saying you should, but it can't hurt
2)No
3)I don't know, ask everyone else
4)Stuff like "Hey a new face! Time to die." or "Clearly a squid has to have a hand in this villainy!" or "for quadruple voting me in the pre-game!" or 'late confirming scum' (but we didn't actually see that here)

[Scien]

Meh.

Lawl at the chainsaw defending comment... I am doing that how? Sounds like a redirect.

I understand asking the town how they feel about someone to feel out pairs, but that's not 100% accurate of what you did there. You completely layed out a case to the town and asked them if they bought it. You were not asking about Charter as much as you were asking the town "hey, can I get away with pushing this?"

Here let's try and word my concern in a question so we can talk about it: "You seem to be worried about how the town views your case on Charter? Why would you be concerned about how the town feels about your case, rather than just pursuing it yourself?"

As I have already said, I think you have good points to Charter, and I think he should attempt to answer your points. My concern about you has nothing to do with him, and more to do with how you polled the town first.

I don't think I need to pull out my questions for you, like I have been doing, please tell me if this is not the case, and I'll make a list.

---

To Charter, thanks for cooperating, I don't think I really have more questions. Even though I don't understand all your plays, you cooperating again means we can discuss this. One of my main reasons for the vote was the difficulty you were giving me, I think this passed. Did you comment on KK's points? I must have missed it.

Unvote

For now, at least. I want to hear more from Khan, and I think he deserves more pressure.

Vote: Kublai Khan

[charter]

Yes, I said KK was reaching with his reasons to suspect me and over complicating things.

[dramonic]

Wow, sure doesn't take a lot for you to completely turn around Scien

Unvote
Vote: Scien

[Scien]

Wow, sure doesn't take a lot for you to completely turn around Scien

LOL. Too bad hypocrisy is not a scum tell.

I have issues with Charter's plays, so I question. He avoids questions, I vote for this. He eventually turns around and starts answering. I unvote.

I still have issues with some of his plays, and am interested in the KK comments on Charter, however he is answering questions. Since my vote was to promote him answering questions, something he is doing now, there are better places for my vote.

You truly think that is odd? How so?

[dramonic]

I find it odd because usually you'd vote someone you find scummy. Now in this case you were voting to prod an answer which is different. On that ground, I can understand the unvote.

Unvote

[Sleepless Assassin]

Hey sleeplessassassin, maybe you can comment on what

people have said

? Like, whether you agree, disagree, find anything scummy?

Hewitt and Kublai are pretty scummy. I can't decide on Charter but right now I think he's town. Scien is probably town. Dramonic has my attention, but I'm not sure why.

Read Hewitt's posts though so we can lynch him.

Post 0 --> Confirmed.

Nothing notable here

Post 1 --> Says he's not a new face.

Posting without saying anything. The wiki calls this active lurking

Post 2 --> Says he's a mason with Ray.

Joke from the queue. Active lurking again

Post 3 --> Says Charter is scummy and he doesn't want to talk about the hider.

First off, Charter voted Hewitt so I think Hewitt sees Charter as a threat and wants everyone to think Charter is scum so we lynch Charter. Second, why isn't he voting Charter? Well if we lynch Charter, maybe Hewitt knows Charter isn't scum and doesn't want the blood on his hands. So if someone else votes Charter and then Hewitt votes later, it looks like someone else's idea.

Post 4 --> Tells the hider do whatever the fuck they want.

Then how do we know when they find out who is town or scum?

Post 5 --> Says the power roles should do what they want or it defeats the purpose.

How?

Post 6 --> Asks how we know who is scum from knowing what the hider does.
Post 7 --> More hider questions.

It doesn't look like Hewitt read the roles or anything.

Post 8 --> More hider questions.

Funny how he snuck an attack on Charter in there too. But Hewitt still hasn't voted anyone.

Post 9 --> More hider stuff.
Post 10 --> Finally gets it and says hypo-hider thing is cool.

I predict that Hewitt calls me scum in his next post because I'm a threat to him now and votes for either me or Charter.

[Scien]

Dramonic, true or false, you don't care where your vote is? That thing has hopped around 4 times in what looks like 10 real (non-fluff) game posts.

[dramonic]

first vote was before the game began, second was a RV

Vote three was in response to ekiM completely destroying Charter's attack on him, giving me scumvibes from charter

Vote four was because I found your swing suspect.

Theorically, I only voted twice (three times if you include my unvote in last post)

I do care where my vote is.

[Scien]

I ignored your first vote. I counted Octipus, Charter, Schin, and an unvote with no replacement. That's 4 hops in 10 posts (I also cut out the posts before that RV).

But meh.

[Kaiveran]

Votecount #1: "Where th'fuck have you bean?"

hewitt

- 2 - Sleepless Assassin, charter

Octupis

- 0 -

DeathRowKitty

- 0 -

Kublai Khan

- 1 - Scien

dramonic

- 0 -

charter

- 1 - ekiM

Gregory

- 0 -

Sleepless Assassin

- 1 - DeathRowKitty

RayFrost

- 0 -

Scien

- 0 -

ekiM

- 0 -

Have been quite busy with school, so slipped off a bit. Sorry for any inconvenience.

To whoever asked:

Yes, hypoclaims are allowed.

[RayFrost]

@ KK:

Not tunelling at all, just lack of confidence in regards to reads. =/

Anyway, I have a lil bit of experience with lil hew from Maf 100 (along with dram), but he was scum that game, and I was a replacement. It'd kinda hard to get a read on him right now.

SA's PBPA on lil hew has very little value and gives off the reek of IoA/WIFOM mix... Thus:

Vote: Sleepless Assassin

Maybe you should stop

sleeping

and post

content

to help the town

scumhunt

.

Commentary on the scien/dram shiznizzle:

Dram does that (vote hoppin') early in the game from my experience with 'im. Null tell, IIRC. Emphasis on the early bit.

Scien's switch is fine and was fine before he explained it. Dram not understanding feels a tid bit suspicious...

[Scien]

Hate to be dense but does IoA = IIoA? Information Instead of Analysis?

I thought the italics in that PBP looked like a slight bit of analysis.

As for the WIFOM side of it, I definitely see that in the 'jumping at threats' parts of that post.

---

As an aside to the whole Hewitt thing, I never saw a slip that suggested that he was not legitimately confused about how the hider worked. Does someone want to point me in that direction? If he was honestly confused, I can see almost every post of his making sense from someone who doesn't know the mechanics yet. And that seems to be about half Hewitt's posts.

[Gregory]

Ray, what purpose has it do drop 2 votes on a lurker?

one vote should be enough for him to understand lurking isn't the way to win.

your last vote makes me think you don't have any better targets, and vote SA so it at least looks like you're doing your best.

vote:RayFrost

[charter]

Gregory's vote seems like a serious case of pot calling the kettle black.

[dramonic]

Gregory's vote seems like a serious case of pot calling the kettle black.

translation?

[charter]

Oh wow, I didn't realize that Gregory was criticizing Ray for putting the second vote on a lurker. I thought he was saying Rayfrost had twice voted different lurkers.

Now that I actually go back and look, Sleepless Assassin isn't posting a whole lot, but he's not really lurking either.

However, pressuring people who fall in to this middle ground is a solid strategy early game, so I don't see anything wrong with RayFrost's vote, other than he didn't really ask any questions to SA. Gregory is saying that RayFrost is voting him just so Ray looks like he's doing something, but then Gregory's vote on Ray is pretty much the same thing, just voting Ray to look like he's doing something.

Gregory's vote is pretty scummy now that I go back and get the facts straight. Placing a second vote on someone isn't scummy ever, certainly not a reason to vote someone.

[DeathRowKitty]

I know I owe this game a decent post, but don't expect one tonight. Sorry. My posting (and more importantly content) level should rise to a decent level starting Sunday or Monday.

[Sleepless Assassin]

Ray, Scien is right. The italics are my opinions on what Hewitt said.

[charter]

I agree with Ray here, you really didn't draw any conclusions from doing that. I certainly didn't.

[RayFrost]

Ray, Scien is right. The italics are my opinions on what Hewitt said.

As charter said (and yes scien, IIoA, IoA is information over analysis, but they are the same thing), you didn't really do anything with it...

You plopped it in with some (minor) commentary and didn't follow anything through to a logic conclusion/reason for believing hew scum.

[dramonic]

So, are we doing that hypoclaim or what?

If so I dont mind going first.

[Kublai Khan]

Lawl at the chainsaw defending comment... I am doing that how? Sounds like a redirect.

It's pretty self-evident.

Kublai Khan: Hey, I think charter is scummy for there reasons.
Scien: That's good and all, but Kublai Khan is scummy for the way he's pushing his case.

It's pretty much textbook chainsaw defending.

I understand asking the town how they feel about someone to feel out pairs, but that's not 100% accurate of what you did there. You completely layed out a case to the town and asked them if they bought it. You were not asking about Charter as much as you were asking the town "hey, can I get away with pushing this?"

Here let's try and word my concern in a question so we can talk about it: "You seem to be worried about how the town views your case on Charter? Why would you be concerned about how the town feels about your case, rather than just pursuing it yourself?"

First, I really don't like how you're putting scummy words in my mouth. Second, I really don't like how you're putting a scummy spin on the situation.

Let's go back to basics. To Mafia 101, if you will. When I ask a question to "@all", I'm practicing a bit of group psychology. Overall, people generally don't stick their necks out for each other. It's like when there is an emergency, they train you not to say "someone call 911". Instead you should point to a specific person and tell them to call 911.

Since I addressed nobody in particular, whomever took it upon themselves to answer it (and especially whomever answered it most strongly) is most likely to be playing with ulterior motives than that of an innocent bystander who has no idea what my & charter's alignments are. You're trying to take advantage of a situation and that's scummy.

For now, at least. I want to hear more from Khan, and I think he deserves more pressure.

This is just weird. I've been active and haven't dodged any questions.

So, are we doing that hypoclaim or what?

Since the hypoclaim should take the form of "I hid behind X on Night 0 and plan on hiding behind Y tonight". We should probably wait until the end of day.

mod: prod Octupis

[dramonic]

Not sure that's viable. If we wait too long we might end up missing some of the cliams.