Mini 856 - Star Control: Zeta Sextantis - Over

[Kast]

Otherwise, I don't see any reason to move my vote.

Also, to be honest, I probably still wouldn't move my vote.

[Excedrin]

@Excedrin-
-You must be scum.

To expand on this. If you want to share your real role and KMD's real role, and those roles strongly suggest that we should lynch KMD before lynching you, then please do that. Otherwise, I don't see any reason to move my vote.

I have shared my real role. I have no idea what Kmd4390's role is, except that he's on a dreadnought.

Is there a purpose in posting useless crap like your prev post?

[Kast]

@Excedrin-
There is the chance that you might realize you've lost the game and just surrender instead of dragging things out. It's worth asking and doesn't hurt. Probably not going to work, but also not useless.

How do you feel when you tell useless lies? You are going to be lynched. Is it a mark of honor for you as scum to go down insisting that you are a townie?

[Kast]

@Excedrin-
To be clear, my cards are on the table. I plan to lynch you, roleblock your buddy (KMD), then tomorrow we lynch him.

To the best of my knowledge, Rising and Zito are backing the same plan.

[Kast]

If you don't have any answers to that, you might as well surrender...

[Excedrin]

@Excedrin-
There is the chance that you might realize you've lost the game and just surrender instead of dragging things out. It's worth asking and doesn't hurt. Probably not going to work, but also not useless.

My respect for your skill at this game didn't start out extremely high, but wow... This is like typical noob scumhunting attempts where someone says, "Are you scum with X?" It's amusing to me that you believe that a useless crap post like your previous one actually has some merit.

How do you feel when you tell useless lies?

I don't know. What's the point of this question? Why do you persist in posting useless crap?

You are going to be lynched.

If you're town, you should see this as a potentially negative thing since it would result in instant town loss, when did you become so certain that I'm scum?

Is it a mark of honor for you as scum to go down insisting that you are a townie?

No, when I'm scum, I'd consider it a mark of honor to be considered a clear town player, beyond suspicion. This is the third time in this game day that you've presented something that's equally likely for town or scum (insisting that I'm town) then ignored the possibility that I'm town.

To be clear, my cards are on the table. I plan to lynch you, roleblock your buddy (KMD), then tomorrow we lynch him.

This is such a seductive plan. I'd really like to believe that Kast could roleblock Kmd4390, but I suspect that game will simply end.

If you don't have any answers to that, you might as well surrender...

You post a lot of pointless crap. I kinda liked wading thru the longer logic related crap posts though, these short crap posts just don't have enough meat.

[Kast]

@Excedrin-
There is the chance that you might realize you've lost the game and just surrender instead of dragging things out. It's worth asking and doesn't hurt. Probably not going to work, but also not useless.

My respect for your skill at this game didn't start out extremely high, but wow... This is like typical noob scumhunting attempts where someone says, "Are you scum with X?" It's amusing to me that you believe that a useless crap post like your previous one actually has some merit.

Ad hom. I'll take that as a, "no, I don't want to surrender and I'm going to take out my frustrations by trying to be a jerk."

How do you feel when you tell useless lies?

I don't know. What's the point of this question? Why do you persist in posting useless crap?

This is more relevant than your question about "useless crap" despite knowing that it is not useless.

You are going to be lynched.

If you're town, you should see this as a potentially negative thing since it would result in instant town loss, when did you become so certain that I'm scum?

You're being sloppy. I'll let you think this one over a bit more. Let me know if you still can't figure it out.

Is it a mark of honor for you as scum to go down insisting that you are a townie?

No, when I'm scum, I'd consider it a mark of honor to be considered a clear town player, beyond suspicion.

Your explanation is not relevant to your answer. It is possible for a player to consider both as marks of honor. Since you already failed the first, you could be aiming at the second.

To be more clear though, do you have any examples where you were caught as scum and reacted in a different manner?

This is the third time in this game day that you've presented something that's equally likely for town or scum (insisting that I'm town) then ignored the possibility that I'm town.

False. I have never presented anything that is equally indicative of you being town or scum as something indicating that you are scum. Your previous two "claims" of this were both false and you did not even attempt to dispute them after being shown that they were false.

To be clear, my cards are on the table. I plan to lynch you, roleblock your buddy (KMD), then tomorrow we lynch him.

This is such a seductive plan. I'd really like to believe that Kast could roleblock Kmd4390, but I suspect that game will simply end.

Unless this is a claim that you are the last scum in a 2 man scum team, it is more lies. I doubt it is such a claim.

If you don't have any answers to that, you might as well surrender...

You post a lot of pointless crap.

So no surrender?

I kinda liked wading thru the longer logic related crap posts though, these short crap posts just don't have enough meat.

There are tons of things you have never bothered addressing. If you'd prefer, have at them. If you're hoping to create something to distract the town from lynching you, I doubt you'll be successful.

[Kast]

@Excedrin-
-Are you the type of scum player who gets angry/aggressive when he is caught?
-Are you the type of scum player who insists he is town even through twilight after his lynch?

[Excedrin]

Ad hom. I'll take that as a, "no, I don't want to surrender and I'm going to take out my frustrations by trying to be a jerk."

Do you think that I'm frustrated? Are you implying that frustration is a scumtell? If so, that's the 4th time you've taken something that's equally likely for town and scum and tried to imply that I'm scum because of it.

@Excedrin-
-Are you the type of scum player who gets angry/aggressive when he is caught?
-Are you the type of scum player who insists he is town even through twilight after his lynch?

Both of these questions are about theory, since they don't apply to the current situation. Do you really think that it's a good idea to ask a lot of theory questions when it's presumably lylo? How would my answer to either of these questions help town?

If you think that Kmd4390 and I are scum together, why aren't you asking him any of these crap questions? Is it because Kmd4390 was being honest and you don't want to risk bussing your scumbuddy when you have an easy mislynch possibility?

I mean, if you honestly believe:

There is the chance that you might realize you've lost the game and just surrender instead of dragging things out. It's worth asking and doesn't hurt. Probably not going to work, but also not useless.

then you should obviously be asking Kmd4390 to surrender. How do you explain your inconsistency?

To be more clear though, do you have any examples where you were caught as scum and reacted in a different manner

Different from what? Different from my town reaction?

[Papa Zito]

I have a quick question for all of you. Do you find the following setup balanced?

- 3 scum
- 1 survivor/neutral
- 4 millers
- 4 townies

[Excedrin]

That would depend on other mechanics, specifically what abilities the 8 town aligned players have. If the 8 town players are vanilla, then 3 scum + survivor seems to favor scum. If town has a lot of actions then it could be balanced. It also depends if the neutral has a kill or not (SK sometimes kills scum).

In general (this is extremely general), 3 + survivor in 12p favors scum.

[Rising]

-I put Excedrin at L-2.
-KMD put Excedrin at L-1.

Ah. Yes. That's true. My bad. That's good. That makes your play today a lot more sensible, as I see it.

Your point itself is ridiculous. There is no reason to apologize for believing it is plausible that the mod implemented a standard role which is supported by flavor bla bla

* sigh *
It was intended as a lighthearted comment about stupid role ideas, like Jesters (another standard role, that sucks). I don't think we should play together, you and I.

To me, this whole idea of a terrorist is hot air. Zito suggested it pretty much out of the blue, mainly to explain why Kmd had absorbed 3 units of energy (but as we know, Kmd has not claimed the ability to actually cancel actions targeting him, so if he was targeted in this way, he would be dead). As we've heard from Zito; Plum's plan was to get LL out from his ship and instantly use her ability to pick up him as well as every other floating pilot, so we don't need any farfetched explanations at all. If scum targeted Plum with an ability that would kill not only her, but everyone else on her ship (a reasonable scum ability, as I see it), then that would result in exactly the scenario we've seen. When townies die, I think the most sensible thing is to assume that scum killed them. The "LL as a terrorist"-theory implies that it was either a non-racial ship ability used *before* Plum got to use her R.A on LL - but after she had used her passive ability to pick up sigma and Porkens OR that the terrorist ability was a pilot ability (and that it kicked in after Plum had scooped up sigma and porkens) which doesn't really make much sense.

But most of all, I think it's ridiculous because we don't have a serious reason for expecting it. It was just something that Zito blurted out to explain why Kmd had absorbed 3 energy, and I think it's more likely that Kmd is simply lying.

Now you're just making things up.

If you don't want to admit to it, it's probably for the best if I just dropped it. To your credit, though, I will say that all of us have made some mistakes here or there, and I think Kmd's been a lot worse than you.

[Rising]

I have a quick question for all of you. Do you find the following setup balanced?
- 3 scum
- 1 survivor/neutral
- 4 millers
- 4 townies

What point would it be with millers if there were no cops?

---

As I see it, we only had two millers in this setup. A lot of people began on hierarch ships, but our primary cop was sigma, and he didn't care about that.

2 millers is not an unreasonable prize to pay for all the useful abilites we've seen in this setup. And yes; 1/4 scum is pretty much standard for a well-balanced setup, I'd say. (or preferably something like 1/5 + 1, but that's a technicality)

[Papa Zito]

Excedrin claims to be a ship-cop.

[Excedrin]

I assumed that "townies" implied town players with unspecified abilities and that your setup question was not related to this game, since we don't have any survivors.

[Rising]

Papa Zito thinks that I'm a survivor. I hope it's just because of thematical reasons, and not that he thinks I haven't been helpful to town.

---

Excedrin claims to be a ship-cop.

Yup. And Kast claims to be a roleblocker. And Plum was essentially a roleblocker, sigma was a race-cop, and you fill all kinds of roles; you're both something of a ship-cop and a roleblocker.

So, we had quite a few powerroles. If it had not been for the millers, things would have been unbalanced with only 1/4 scum. That's why I'm sure we have 3 scum.

[Papa Zito]

Papa Zito thinks that I'm a survivor. I hope it's just because of thematical reasons, and not that he thinks I haven't been helpful to town.

You claimed Melnorme. They are not allied to anyone.

So, here's what I think we need to do.

vote: Kmd

[Kast]

@Zito-
1/4-1/3 scum is usually pretty balanced, depending on town roles. 1/3 scum usually does not equal 1/3 mafia, rather mafia + some number of independents, or multiple small mafia.

If Rising is a survivor, then we should be fine since he should be able to win with us.

@Roles and interactions-
Collected and paraphrased. Most flavor removed to just reflect mechanics.

The Living:

Papa Zito

-Commander Decker, Earthling
?) No Pilot Abilities
Precursor Ship
A) You may swap two players (N)

Kmd4390

-Lololo, Utwig
?) No Pilot Abilities
Utwig Jugger
P) You can hold any amount of energy
RA) Gain energy equal to the amount spent on actions that target you (N) (energy 1)

Excedrin

-FipPat, Zoq-Fot-Pik
A) Learn target player's ship name and color (N)
Umgah Drone
P) Energy 2
A) Roleblock target player (N) (energy 1)
RA) Send an anonymous message to target player (N)

Rising

-Magenta, Melnorme
P) Every night (?), add 1 energy to his current ship.
No Ship
P?) Choose a player. You will board that player's ship.

Kast

-Captain Brakky, Pkunk
A) Insult target player. If the player uses any Racial Abilities, those abilities are role blocked and the player will be informed that they were role blocked (N)
Pkunk Fury
RP) If killed, there is a chance that the ship and all crew may come back to life. You are not informed if this happens.

The Dead:

KeelieRavenWolf:

(Rogash, Ilwrath, Hierarchy)

?) ?

Ilwrath Avenger

?) ?

Dry-fit: (

Admiral ZEX, VUX

,

Alliance

)

?) None?

Admiral ZEX's VUX Intruder

P?) Any player who gets on his ship is killed by the animals
P?) You can use two (Ship?) Active Abilities in one night.
R?A) Kill target player (N)
R?A) Roleblock target player (N)

Rosso Carne: (

Warlord Veep-eep of the Zeep-Zeep Clan, Yehat,

Alliance

)

?) ?

Yehat Terminator

?) ?

Porkens: (

Kzzakk, Chenjesu, Alliance

)

?) ?

Mycon Podship

P?) You can use two (Ship?) Active Abilities in one night
RA) Kill target player (N)
RA) Protect target player (N)

Sigma: (

Bezabu, Ariloulaleelay, Alliance

)

P) You know the Affiliation and Race of everyone on a ship with you.

Thraddash Torch

P) Energy X
RA) You become untargettable for one night (N) (energy X/2)

Llocke Lamora: (

Genjiro, Shofixti, Alliance

)

?) ?

Shofixti Scout

?) ?

Plum: (

Commander Aelita, Syreen, Alliance

)

?) ?

Syreen Penetrator

P) You may immediately rescue any number of jettisoned players by PMing the mod
RA) You may force target player to exit his ship (N)

-Plum's role acts as a ship-cop+ (investigation results are public), role-blocker+ (permanent block), and poison doctor+. @Rising- did Plum's power prevent the target from taking night actions on the same night used?
-Zito also acts as a sort of ship cop and potentially long term role-blocker. @Zito- can your targets perform Active Abilities prior to being swapped?
-Sigma claimed both affiliation cop and race cop as separate items. It is possible that he was assuming the color of the race name indicates affiliation, but it is also possible that he would learn the true affiliation. It is unclear whether Dry-Fit and RC were actual millers.
-KMD is the only player who has essentially claimed vanilla. Even if he were a townie, the sheer number of claimed and confirmed power roles implies powerful scum, numerous scum, or a combination of those.

[Kast]

@Zito-
Interesting. Is there a reason you prefer a KMD lynch over Excedrin?

[Kast]

If you don't want to admit to it, it's probably for the best if I just dropped it.

To the best of my knowledge, I have only misunderstood another player's post once today. This was when I misread Excedrin's claim, missing the line where he claimed pilot and pilot ability. When the error was pointed out, I checked and readily corrected the mistake.

Agreed that many people have made many mistakes and been pretty sloppy today.

[Excedrin]

If Rising is survivor he's certainly not playing to survivor win condition. The only possible exception would be if he's really uncertain about current living number of scum.

---

It's possible that Porkens had a pilot based energy drain ability (Chenjesu in SC2 ship secondary weapon has this) and targeted me last night. He may have also targeted someone else on night 1. While thinking this, I decided to look for a crumb and found:

The lack of a nightkill bothers me. I think that the scum would be able to kill a ship and everyone on it with their night action

(my podship had that ability plus doc plus the ability to do both in one night.)

I'm lead to believe that the lack of a nightkill was a strategic decision.

Bolded part is interesting since it contradicts the one pilot ability and/or one ship ability mentioned in the 1st post.

Anyway I didn't find a crumb. The closest anything came to that was his inclusion of Locke Lamora as #2 suspect.

---

The Porkens post that I quoted was also the one that Kast objected to as narrowing down possible town protective roles. I could see Kast missing the "multiple actions" in one night thing though (he stressed it earlier and requested mod confirmation), since it was a minor point. Also, I see that it's been mentioned while I was typing this go go mega simulpost.

[Papa Zito]

@Zito-
Interesting. Is there a reason you prefer a KMD lynch over Excedrin?

I prefer them equally but a Kmd lynch removes more variables, I think.

Let's pretend Kmd is scum for the moment and Excedrin is lynched. That leaves us with

Zito + Rising
Kast
Kmd

Your plan is to roleblock Kmd, which is fine. However, his energy absorption gives me pause - I'm afraid that your roleblock could fail. Instead we lynch Kmd and remove his shield variable from the equation. You are now free to roleblock Excedrin. This should prevent NKs, assuming Excedrin is also scum.

If Rising is survivor he's certainly not playing to survivor win condition.

I've noted this as well.

[Excedrin]

Uhh, Kmd is lying about his ship so it seems like your reason to lynch him isn't very well thought out. I don't want to be lynched but your logic is really bad, I hope there's more to it.

[Kast]

I've noted this as well.

I'm not seeing it. Initially I thought that Rising as survivor might want to hammer anyone who hit L-1, however, that only wins him the game if he hammers town. If he hammers scum, then the remaining scum may kill him (or Zito and he might die as a result).

Rising as scum would not know for certain who is town or scum.

@Zito-
Does your swapping stop players from using ship abilities of the ship they have prior to being swapped?

If it does block them, we could lynch either KMD or Excedrin and you could swap me with the remaining one of the two. My guess is that your swap should not prevent me from using my pilot ability, so I could insult either you or Rising to confirm my power.

If it does not stop those abilities, then I am fine with lynching either KMD or Excedrin. At this point, Excedrin has to be scum, but I am confidant enough that KMD is his partner that I am willing to lynch KMD first.

To be fair, Excedrin has a point that KMD's shield probably is just a false claim (as is Excedrin's claim). Either one of them *could* have something to stop a roleblock (or could simply have a non-racial killing ability).

[Rising]

Erm... so, both Kmd and Excedrin are at L-1? And Kast doesn't hammer?

Doesn't that mean we've won?