Mini 856 - Star Control: Zeta Sextantis - Over

[Excedrin]

That's a good point.

[Rising]

Which means the bolded. If he's being bussed, he's scum.

Yeah, sorry 'bout that. I can see now that you drew the same conclusion I did earlier: It's either Kast/Kmd or it's Excedrin with any scumbuddy, including you two. (or just one remaining scum (but I completely disqualify that as a valid theory))

Since I don't believe in a Kast/Kmd pairing, Excedrin is my choice of a lynch for the day, but I'm not gonna hammer until I've sorted out some things with Papa.

[Rising]

Kast: What did you suspect about Papa Zito, since you unvoted a while ago? I had already posten in the thread and clearly wasn't about to hammer. So if you had not suspected Papa Zito, it would've had to be an Excedrin/Rising pairing, or an Excedrin/Kmd pairing. Either way, you could have let your vote stay on Excedrin.

So, for some reason, you must have suspected that Papa Zito could've hammered an innocent townie and won the game before you unvoted. So; if you thought Papa Zito could've been scum, and if the Excedrin/Kmd controverse means one of those have to be scum, then the pairing must be Zito/Kmd. (Becasue, again; if the pairing was Zito/Excedrin you could have let your vote stay on Excedrin)

I knew that there were something fishy about you unvoting, but it has taken me some time for me to figure out what it was. Why

did

you unvote? If you're town, you must have suspected a really wierd Zito/Kmd pairing for it to make sense.

[Rising]

Eurgh... Massive language failure in previous post. Sorry 'bout that. I hope that my point got through anyway.

[Excedrin]

Yea, more focus on behavior and less on finding "mistakes" in flavor would be good. Kast's unvote was scummy, his behavior today seems different than his behavior earlier (more passive), and what Kmd4390 said seems to fit (it looks like he's trying to push the easy mislynch and win instead of bussing his partner). He also says that since there's proof that he can block me based on lack of kill and that I got flavor from SpyreX when I shouldn't have, that lynching Kmd4390 first makes sense, then he leaves his vote on me. All of that, plus Zito/Rising as (semi-)confirmed town, makes me question his race, it seems possible that he has some ability that lets him emulate other races.

That said, Rising, could Plum have used her ability to cause people to jump ship on Locke Lamora and then picked him up? Would that explain all 4 deaths without scum needing two kills?

From my perspective, scum submitted the following:
1 kill targetting Plum
1 kill targetting Locke Lamora
1 energy drain targetting Excedrin

Since that's only 3 actions, it's possible that each scum has a kill, but then there would have been a kill on the previous night, even if Kast was killed and reincarnated (unless scum nokilled on purpose).

On day 1, I asked SpyreX about whether it's possible to pick up players who you expect to be in space in the next phase, he said no, only if you know they're in space. So, I'm not sure how Plum's ability would work re: picking up LL, or even if it was possible whether it helps figure out scum's capabilities.

[Rising]

That said, Rising, could Plum have used her ability to cause people to jump ship on Locke Lamora and then picked him up?

Yes. The Penetrators pick up-ability was not listed as an Active ability, so that would not have violated any rule. In fact, it is specifically mentioned in her R.A that she may choose to pick up her target instantly.

Would that explain all 4 deaths without scum needing two kills?

Possibly. I think that was her plan, to gather as many as possible on the same ship as sigma, to get the most out of his ability.

[Kast]

@Excedrin-
The targets I was considering for roleblock were:
-RC if he was not modkilled.
-Excedrin if RC was not in a red ship.
-KMD if Dry-Fit was scum.
-LL for remaining cases.

Sigma and Porkens were not in ships, so there was no point in targeting either of them.

I suspected that Zito, Plum, and Rising were probable town, so they weren't under consideration.

RC was my top suspect after Dry-Fit. I wasn't about to let him coast through the game without posting anything and just submitting night actions.
If RC wasn't in a red ship, then Excedrin was lying about his investigation.
If Dry-Fit was scum, KMD's opposition to lynch KRW and reluctance to lynch Dry-Fit would be too strong to ignore or risk not blocking him.
I didn't like LL's D2 behavior; that he said he would like to vote Dry-Fit but avoided doing so could have indicated scum unwilling to hammer a known townie. A similar motive could be applied to KMD, with the different that LL seemed to want to avoid attention, whereas KMD didn't seem to care about hiding himself.

@Rising-
I am fine with lynching either KMD or Excedrin as I think they are the most probable remaining scum. However, I would prefer lynching the more probable scum of the two, which seems to be Excedrin. There were a lot of claims and contradictory (and potentially contradictory) information flying around. I unvoted and revoted several times in response to new information and/or to give myself time to process that information.

I'm assuming you are specifically referring to this unvote and revote. I think I posted pretty clearly that I unvoted because I wanted to hear the answers to my questions (and let Zito share his thoughts) before any lynch happened.

I also disagree that it was clear that you did not intend to hammer. I did not strongly suspect you, but it was possible that you were trying to decide whether or not to hammer your buddy. You answered questions that fleshed out your claim and that all held together consistently with your and Zito's previous information as well as the mod's clarifications.

Even if you had somehow made it certain that you would not hammer, the possibility of a scum self hammer to prematurely end the day still existed. It still exists now, however, Zito has had a chance to share his thoughts and I don't think any scum self hammer at this point would significantly harm the town.

[Kast]

@Zito-

That said, Rising, could Plum have used her ability to cause people to jump ship on Locke Lamora and then picked him up?

-Was this part of your plan as discussed with Plum?
-When you switch players, are they able to use Active Abilities after the switch?

@Lots of Deaths-
It is also possible that LL used a suicide attack which was not a Racial Ability.

[Kast]

Yea, more focus on behavior and less on finding "mistakes" in flavor would be good.

How about more focus on definitive scumtells instead of BS?

Kast's unvote was scummy,

-Explain.
-This eagerness to jump on and agree with something Rising posted without explanation sounds like desperate scum.

his behavior today seems different than his behavior earlier (more passive),

?Calling for someone's lynch is passive how?

He also says that since there's proof that he can block me based on lack of kill

This is false. Seriously reaching and twisting what I said. It is possible that I can block you. The lack of kill is not proof of that.

and that I got flavor from SpyreX when I shouldn't have,

This part is also not proof, but it is stronger indication that you are lying and is a more accurate portrayal of what I have posted.

that lynching Kmd4390 first makes sense, then he leaves his vote on me.

I clearly posted that I find you more likely to be scum. Having reasons to lynch both you and KMD does not mean it is contradictory to vote for one of you.

[Excedrin]

I am fine with lynching either KMD or Excedrin as I think they are the most probable remaining scum. However, I would prefer lynching the more probable scum of the two, which seems to be Excedrin.

How am I most probable?

There were a lot of claims and contradictory (and potentially contradictory) information flying around. I unvoted and revoted several times in response to new information and/or to give myself time to process that information.

What contradiction exactly? That I received enough flavor to guess that your ability blocks? You're reading too much into your PMs from SpyreX if this is your only reason to prefer my lynch to Kmd4390's.

@Zito-

That said, Rising, could Plum have used her ability to cause people to jump ship on Locke Lamora and then picked him up?

-Was this part of your plan as discussed with Plum?
-When you switch players, are they able to use Active Abilities after the switch?

@Lots of Deaths-
It is also possible that LL used a suicide attack which was not a Racial Ability.

This only makes sense if he killed Plum, if he targetted Kmd4390, that might explain 3 units of energy absorbed, but Kmd4390 should be dead if this was the case, based on his claim (that his absorption shield only absorbs energy but doesn't cause the ability/kill to fail, which doesn't fit with SC2 Jugger's in-game ability at all).

[Excedrin]

Yea, more focus on behavior and less on finding "mistakes" in flavor would be good.

How about more focus on definitive scumtells instead of BS?

I agree 100%, it's annoying if I get lynched (in lylo) based on flavor reasons instead of scumhunting or game mechanics reasons. If I knew it wasn't lylo, I'd have no problem being today's lynch, but one scum remaining seems unlikely.

Kast's unvote was scummy,

-Explain.

It's typical "oh, look I'm being a cautious town player, I don't want scum to hammer... Oh nevermind, I'm sure this guy is scum" kind of play.

-This eagerness to jump on and agree with something Rising posted without explanation sounds like desperate scum.

This is the second time you've posted something that could apply to either align, and instead of saying "this could be desperate town" you say it's "desperate scum"; that's scummy. If it's lylo, I don't want the game to end with my lynch.

his behavior today seems different than his behavior earlier (more passive),

?Calling for someone's lynch is passive how?

Your game today has been lots of:
agreement with Zito on flavor
asking Mod for clarification
asking people for clarification of their claims

It looks like you're ignoring Kmd4390's behavior entirely.

He also says that since there's proof that he can block me based on lack of kill

This is false. Seriously reaching and twisting what I said. It is possible that I can block you. The lack of kill is not proof of that.

I agree that KMD's role sounds bogus. Potentially gaining tons of energy but no way to use it doesn't sound that plausible. As claimed, he is equivalent to being vanilla. Actually, the biggest point I see in favor of lynching him instead of lynching you is that the lack of kills on N1 could indicate that I can successfully stop you from killing, whereas KMD might kill as a non-racial ship ability.

Did I really twist this?

and that I got flavor from SpyreX when I shouldn't have,

This part is also not proof, but it is stronger indication that you are lying and is a more accurate portrayal of what I have posted.

I think it's weird that SpyreX has clarified this point for you according to your post:
"Okay...Spyrex sent me another clarification that he might or might not add flavor even if there was no roleblock."
And despite that, you're still listing it as a reason to lynch Excedrin.

All of these things make me consider that it's more likely that you're not Pkunk and you have some kind of ability to pretend to be Pkunk. I'd expect townKast to figure out what happens if Excedrin is telling the truth and compare that to what happens if I'm not. That there's no huge matrix of possible outcomes seems out of character.

[Rising]

I also disagree that it was clear that you did not intend to hammer. I did not strongly suspect you, but it was possible that you were trying to decide whether or not to hammer your buddy.

But if the pairing was me/Excedrin, then you'd have no reason for not leaving your vote on Excedrin. I did not suggest that I am cleared townie, but I

did

say that it's absolutely unthinkable that I am scum and Excedrin is town, because then I would've hammered him and won the game. And it's only reasonable to unvote if one has reason to believe one's currently voting for town.

@Lots of Deaths-
It is also possible that LL used a suicide attack which was not a Racial Ability.

Sure. But how would a suicide attack benefit town?

if he targetted Kmd4390, that might explain 3 units of energy absorbed

Ex... If you're town, then you *know* that both Kast and Kmd are scumbuddies, because otherwise, you would already be dead. Therefore, you shouldn't pay much attention to Kmd's claim.

[Papa Zito]

@Zito-

That said, Rising, could Plum have used her ability to cause people to jump ship on Locke Lamora and then picked him up?

-Was this part of your plan as discussed with Plum?
-When you switch players, are they able to use Active Abilities after the switch?

The plan was:
1. I switch Rising and Plum back, so she can have her ship back.
2. Plum uses her priority pickup ability to pick up both of the floating gents. Most importantly, sigma.
3. Plum uses her ships other ability (the ability to snatch a player off of his ship) on someone else. She said she'd probably take Locke.

Players can't use active abilities, no. Plum had an active racial ability that she couldn't use. Her flavor said she "disoriented." Rising's passive ability doesn't seem affected.

Rising and I are hammering stuff out still.

[Rising]

It's typical "oh, look I'm being a cautious town player, I don't want scum to hammer... Oh nevermind, I'm sure this guy is scum" kind of play.

It's more than that. It's not just wishy-washy voting. The thing about LYLO is that people can deduce so much for SURE when noone hammers. I posted but did not hammer, and immediately everyone knows that I'm not scum unless I am Excedrin's scumbuddie. It's just impossible. Papa hadn't posted at the time, but when he would everyone would be able to say the same thing about him (as we can, now). That rules out so many possible scumpairings that it is quite understandable that Kast could panic if he was scum.

At this moment we Know that Kast can't be scum unless he's scumbuddie with either Kmd or Excedrin. With just two possible connections everything becomes so much easier for town, and it is quite normal to react irrationally for scum when that happens.

[Kast]

@Excedrin-
-I gave my reasons for preferring you over KMD already.
-My guess is that Plum would be unable to use any Active Abilities after being switched. If she was not able to, then I think it is more likely that LL suicide bombed Plum than that scum have 2 night kills. All 4 players being incinerated also suggests that the same mechanic is responsible for all 4 deaths.

If LL did suicide bomb, it could potentially have targeted Sigma or Porkens instead of Plum. Depending on how Zito's switching works, it could potentially have targeted Rising. Given that LL was suspicious of Plum, I think the simplest explanation is that he would have bombed her if he could.

-I don't know why you keep pointing out that KMD's claimed 3 energy units is significant proof of anything. If you are trying to show that someone is not scum, assuming that the person is not scum is not valid.

However, if KMD is telling the truth, then absorbing 3 units of energy could not have been from a suicide bomb aimed at him since he would be dead. This does not in any way suggest that LL targeted KMD.

I agree with you that KMD's claim sounds implausible. This balances against your own claim which is equally implausible. Fortunately, the two implausible roleclaims coincide with two players who are most likely to be scum (objectively due to direct contradiction).

It's typical "oh, look I'm being a cautious town player, I don't want scum to hammer... Oh nevermind, I'm sure this guy is scum" kind of play.

This does not explain how it is scummy. You offer no discernment between this and a townie doing the same thing. Again, provide explanation of how this is scummy.

This is the second time you've posted something that could apply to either align, and instead of saying "this could be desperate town" you say it's "desperate scum"; that's scummy. If it's lylo, I don't want the game to end with my lynch.

False. This does not sound like desperate town. Desperate town is not concerned with keeping self alive at all costs. Desperate town is concerned with lynching suspected scum at all costs. You have claimed to believe KMD is scum; desperate town would push this. As a claimed cop, it is almost incomprehensible how unwilling you were to initially vote for a player who your own claimed investigation incriminated. Another sign that you are probably bussing your buddy.
-I have obviously done more than just ask for clarifications from other players. If you still insist on your blatant lie, I can do a breakdown of my posts so far today.

Did I really twist this?

Yes. You conflated the two ideas when they are clearly distinct. The former is a very weak argument for lynching KMD today instead of lynching you. The latter is a reason I suspect you more than KMD.

Your reference to the former as though it were a hard scumtell that I was deliberately ignoring is an extreme twist.

And despite that, you're still listing it as a reason to lynch Excedrin.

This kinda contradicts the previous clarification I was given.

Context is important. The previous clarification that I was given made it explicitly clear that you were lying. Spyrex does not want to directly influence the game. Unfortunately, sometimes players lie and his clarifications will influence the game by catching those lies.

From the wording of his clarification and the fact that he provided it without a request, I believe he feels bad that you may have been definitively caught simply because you did not know how he implemented my role block power in this game. To be fair, I am not using that as the major factor in determining who is scum, but also to be fair, it is not something I can ignore.

Fortunately, your contradiction with KMD is a hard tell that is in line with my understanding of the situation.

I'd expect townKast to figure out what happens if Excedrin is telling the truth and compare that to what happens if I'm not. That there's no huge matrix of possible outcomes seems out of character.

This is pretty straightforward. If you are town, scum endgame us. If for some reason the game continues, KMD is obv-scum and I roleblock him.

This is no worse than lynching anyone else as town. This is much less probable than Rising or Zito being town.

This is similar in probability to KMD being town; both are low.

@Rising-

And it's only reasonable to unvote if one has reason to believe one's currently voting for town.

This is untrue. Allowing for extra discussion and ensuring that no mistakes are being made is a huge reason to unvote even confirmed scum.

As I said, Excedrin-scum could have decided to self-hammer to end the day without letting Zito post thoughts and/or figure out what he wants to do. This is hardly a rare or unusual scum tactic.

Also, as I posted, I want to lynch the more probable scum out of Excedrin and KMD. Even if they are both scum, it may be better to lynch KMD today instead of Excedrin (particularly if Excedrin's claim was more plausible than KMD's).

-LL thought Plum was scum. Using a suicide attack to try and kill someone who he suspected as scum would benefit the town by killing a player he thought was scum. I don't follow where your confusion comes from.

@Zito-

3. Plum uses her ships other ability (the ability to snatch a player off of his ship) on someone else. She said she'd probably take Locke.

Players can't use active abilities, no. Plum had an active racial ability that she couldn't use. Her flavor said she "disoriented." Rising's passive ability doesn't seem affected.

To be clear, Plum did intend to use her Active Racial Ability to eject a player (probably LL) from his ship after being switched back. However, a player is unable to use Active abilities after you switch them. Does this mean that Plum would try but would probably be unable to actually eject a player after being switched?

[Excedrin]

Ex... If you're town, then you *know* that both Kast and Kmd are scumbuddies, because otherwise, you would already be dead. Therefore, you shouldn't pay much attention to Kmd's claim.

I don't know this because it's not certain that there's 2 scum. If there are 2 scum then, yes, it's Kmd4390 and Kast, but then I have to figure out how I got a message from mod that clearly indicates Kast is Pkunk.

If there's only one scum, then it made sense to figure out how Kmd4390's claim could be possible. If Plum picked up Locke Lamora and was then killed, then scum can have only one kill, prior to that idea, the possibility that Kmd4390 is town and my scan result was tampered with didn't seem likely because scum would need the ability to kill 2 targets in one night and there was no kill on night 1.

[Excedrin]

-I don't know why you keep pointing out that KMD's claimed 3 energy units is significant proof of anything. If you are trying to show that someone is not scum, assuming that the person is not scum is not valid.

Because it's something that others can see is impossible (unless I'm lying). His claim came before other claims, he didn't know if Papa Zito or Rising had targetted him, if either of them did, it would verify his claim. Nobody else has claimed to target him. He says that Kast is town. For him to stick to his story, I must have had a kill that killed (at least) Plum as well as some other ability with unknown results that targeted Kmd4390 that used 3 units of energy. So my persistence in pointing out his "3 energy units" claim has caused him to say that:
there's 2 scum, comprised of Excedrin + Papa Zito / Rising
which seems absurd.

I agree with you that KMD's claim sounds implausible. This balances against your own claim which is equally implausible. Fortunately, the two implausible roleclaims coincide with two players who are most likely to be scum (objectively due to direct contradiction).

How is my claim implausible? Because ZFP doesn't have radar dishes as heads in SC2?

It's typical "oh, look I'm being a cautious town player, I don't want scum to hammer... Oh nevermind, I'm sure this guy is scum" kind of play.

This does not explain how it is scummy. You offer no discernment between this and a townie doing the same thing. Again, provide explanation of how this is scummy.

Ugh, this reminds me of day 1 Kast. I say, "It's typical scum behavior" and Kast says, "you didn't explain how it's scummy". Rising had a different take, I think it's simpler, as in, scum trying to score town cred by appearing to be a cautious townie, fearing hammer, etc. Town being cautious here by unvoting doesn't make sense, if there's 2 scum, then after townKast's initial vote, the game is (theoretically) over. townKast would have been actually cautious, and not cast his vote until after hearing from Papa Zito and Rising instead of feigned caution (casting the vote and then unvoting).

This is the second time you've posted something that could apply to either align, and instead of saying "this could be desperate town" you say it's "desperate scum"; that's scummy. If it's lylo, I don't want the game to end with my lynch.

False. This does not sound like desperate town. Desperate town is not concerned with keeping self alive at all costs. Desperate town is concerned with lynching suspected scum at all costs. You have claimed to believe KMD is scum; desperate town would push this. As a claimed cop, it is almost incomprehensible how unwilling you were to initially vote for a player who your own claimed investigation incriminated. Another sign that you are probably bussing your buddy.

If it's lylo, why wouldn't town be concerned with "keeping self alive at all costs"? You're wrong about that. The current reasons to lynch me are based on flavor and "bullshit" as you stated. From a behavior point of view, Kmd4390 is lurking and has disappeared since botching his claim. It looks like he's not concerned with helping Rising and Papa Zito make a good decision, he's just waiting and hoping they make a mistake, that's scummy.

Also, as a "claimed cop" I get ship information, since I'm on a hierarchy ship and RC and Dry-fit and sigma and Porkens were all on hierarchy ships, why should I immediately assume that there's not another explanation for the result that I got on Kmd4390?

[Kast]

@Rising-

That rules out so many possible scumpairings that it is quite understandable that Kast could panic if he was scum.

To be clear, you think that my decision to unvote is incomprehensible behavior. What you see as scummy is incomprehensible behavior at a time when scum could potentially be panicked.

The thing that makes the most sense to you is that I realized your posting without hammering confirmed you as not scum if Excedrin is town, and, in a moment of thoughtless panic, unvoted despite unvoting not actually doing anything that could benefit scum-Kast. Then I re-voted after calming down. Is that accurate?

[Rising]

To be clear, you think that my decision to unvote is incomprehensible behavior. What you see as scummy is incomprehensible behavior at a time when scum could potentially be panicked.

The thing that makes the most sense to you is that I realized your posting without hammering confirmed you as not scum if Excedrin is town, and, in a moment of thoughtless panic, unvoted despite unvoting not actually doing anything that could benefit scum-Kast. Then I re-voted after calming down. Is that accurate?

Pretty much. The vote was of course thoughtless to begin with; because a townplayer in his right mind would never have pushed someone to L-1 without a good reason. Therefore, neither would a scumplayer. So we've already established that you're bonkers, either way.

[Rising]

This is untrue. Allowing for extra discussion and ensuring that no mistakes are being made is a huge reason to unvote even confirmed scum.

No, that is reason for not putting someone at -1 in the first place.

As I said, Excedrin-scum could have decided to self-hammer to end the day without letting Zito post thoughts and/or figure out what he wants to do. This is hardly a rare or unusual scum tactic.

That's yet another reason for not putting someone at -1 in the first place.

LL thought Plum was scum. Using a suicide attack to try and kill someone who he suspected as scum would benefit the town by killing a player he thought was scum. I don't follow where your confusion comes from.

The idea of a "Suicide Vig" is one of the worst role ideas I've ever heard of. If you're town you should apologize to Spyrex, because that is downright insulting. That's like the antithesis of fun (="in the unlikely event that you've played so well that you would want to use this ability, it would then be game over for you and you would not get to play anymore"). But even worse; in a setup like this; where players are expected to get aboard eachothers ships, it would just be awful for a townie to have the ability to Vig+"kill everyone else on the same ship as your target". And if he

did

have this horribly unfun and antitown ability, and if he

were

stupid (yes, I'm gonna use that word in this case) enough to use it, wouldn't he tell us about it beforehand, knowing that he would not be here to explain things afterwards?

Seriously, Kast. You've been sloppy this whole day: Misreading and misunderstanding pretty much everything that anyone writes, and suggesting these kind of things... Come on.

If there are 2 scum then, yes, it's Kmd4390 and Kast, but then I have to figure out how I got a message from mod that clearly indicates Kast is Pkunk.

Try. Because I'm gonna hammer you if you don't.

[Excedrin]

I've been trying, that alone should cause concern when you contrast it to Kmd4390.

Kmd4390's claimed role makes little sense
1. absorbs power, has no way to use power
2. claimed "R.A" but never sent a message to activate it
3. despite never activating it, he absorbed energy
4. uses power but he still hasn't fullclaimed (how much power did his ship start with?)
5. doesn't fit flavor of SC2 in game Jugger (ship is invincible when shield is on)

Kmd4390's play today has been to lurk and wait for you and Zito to make a mistake.

He's suggested that there's an Excedrin + Rising or Zito scumteam, which makes no sense unless he's scum with Kast and he's hedging his bets to setup a win later (Kast + one of Zito / Rising + Excedrin, with the idea that Excedrin bussed Kmd4390).

Kmd4390's play on day 1: he said that Excedrin is town, Kast is obvtown, Keelie is probably town, Zito is scum, Rising is scummier than Zito. He setup the false dilemma between Zito and Dry-fit that I objected to.

Day 2 he posted:

Unclaimed red ship pretty much means he has to be scum.

Which possibly explains why he didn't claim his actual ship today.

Unvote. Kast can't be scum unless you are, then.

This really surprised me given his Excedrin and Zito or Rising pair today.

Rising, you say:

Seriously, Kast. You've been sloppy this whole day: Misreading and misunderstanding pretty much everything that anyone writes, and suggesting these kind of things... Come on.

...or Excedrin is scum with either you or Kast as a scumbuddy. Seriously: FOS Kmd for not thinking things through. I'm pretty sure by now that we have a Kmd/Excedrin pairing.

There's two players who are playing sloppy and not thinking things thru. If they're aligned scum there's a clear motivation for them to do that.

Where's Zito in all of this, I know you two have discussion going on in the QT, but at least if you're going to hammer, explain your reasons.

[Kast]

@Rising-

The vote was of course thoughtless to begin with; because a townplayer in his right mind would never have pushed someone to L-1 without a good reason. Therefore, neither would a scumplayer. So we've already established that you're bonkers, either way.

You're not really making sense and relying on craplogic.
-I have good reason for lynching Excedrin. Direct contradictions are very strong and very clear scumtells.
-I put Excedrin at L-2.
-KMD put Excedrin at L-1.
-You posted something indicating confusion.
-Excedrin posted stuff.
-I unvoted and asked for you to clarify and for Zito to post.

This is untrue. Allowing for extra discussion and ensuring that no mistakes are being made is a huge reason to unvote even confirmed scum.

No, that is reason for not putting someone at -1 in the first place.

Already addressed. I didn't put him at L-1. Please pay attention to the game.

For completeness, you also use a false dilemma. The two are not mutually exclusive and it's pretty obvious intuitively that a reason to not put someone at L-1 would also be a reason to unvote them so they are not at L-1.

That's yet another reason for not putting someone at -1 in the first place.

This is addressed already; I didn't put him at L-1, and the two conditions are not mutually exclusive.

The idea of a "Suicide Vig" is one of the worst role ideas I've ever heard of.

It's a standard role. It's usually called a terrorist or a suicide bomber, but it's really not as unlikely as you are acting. I'll expand on my advice from D1, don't assume that things are impossible just because you personally haven't seen them before.

If you're town you should apologize to Spyrex, because that is downright insulting.

This is a lame attitude. Scum should not be excused from apologizing for insulting behavior. They can be excused from conducting anti-town behavior since they are anti-town, but if someone insulted the moderator, they should apologize regardless of affiliation.
Your point itself is ridiculous. There is no reason to apologize for believing it is plausible that the mod implemented a standard role which is supported by flavor, supported by public evidence, and which a majority of players in the game have agreed is a plausible role. Again, pay attention to the game.

That's like the antithesis of fun (="in the unlikely event that you've played so well that you would want to use this ability, it would then be game over for you and you would not get to play anymore").

It's a pretty balanced role. A limited vig who has to be very careful. It has good synergy with a vig/roleblocker/ship miller (who also kills people on his ship).

But even worse; in a setup like this; where players are expected to get aboard eachothers ships, it would just be awful for a townie to have the ability to Vig+"kill everyone else on the same ship as your target".

? I'm not seeing it. You'll have to be a lot more clear on why this makes it less likely.

And if he did have this horribly unfun and antitown ability, and if he were stupid (yes, I'm gonna use that word in this case) enough to use it, wouldn't he tell us about it beforehand, knowing that he would not be here to explain things afterwards?

Killing yourself to kill scum is hardly stupid. Announcing a planned kill target prior to doing would be stupid, especially if the kill required a heavy price. If LL had that ability and thought Plum was scum, then he should have thought it unlikely that Plum would rescue a townie (much less two townies).

Even if LL thought it would help to share his ability prior to using it, he lurked the whole day and admitted that he was not paying attention to the game. He went V/LA before the day was over, saying he would not return until after deadline. This probably doesn't matter since he almost certainly would not have shared his target even if he was around.

Seriously, Kast. You've been sloppy this whole day: Misreading and misunderstanding pretty much everything that anyone writes, and suggesting these kind of things... Come on.

Now you're just making things up.

Try. Because I'm gonna hammer you if you don't.

Again, there is no need to rush. I'm assuming you are in communication with Zito, but if not, check with him before hammering.

[Kast]

@Excedrin-
-You must be scum. Showing that KMD is probably your scumbuddy doesn't change that you are scum and should be lynched.
-Your quote of Rising saying KMD is not paying attention was already addressed. Rising realized he made a mistake and it was actually his own sloppy play.

[Kast]

@Excedrin-
-You must be scum.

To expand on this. If you want to share your real role and KMD's real role, and those roles strongly suggest that we should lynch KMD before lynching you, then please do that. Otherwise, I don't see any reason to move my vote.

[Excedrin]

@Excedrin-
-You must be scum. Showing that KMD is probably your scumbuddy doesn't change that you are scum and should be lynched.

If you are town and actually believe this, then you've made a mistake somewhere. Simpler explanation is that you're scum with Kmd4390 and trying to win via easy mislynch.