Newbie #851 (Game Over!)

[Spinach]

Things I don't like (AKA find scummy):
1) AntiSemantic's "vanilla town claim" joke in p14.
2) PorkchopExpress's vote without reason (even a joking one) in p22
3) Silly arguing between PCE and AS all over the place.
4) stands2reasons's unvote after an explanation of L-1 and an unvote from Spinach in p38

Why do you find so called 'silly' arguing scummy? I thought that that something scummy was something that scum generally do or something that is an advantage for scum to do. I don't see this as either, in fact, isn't this argument better than nothing? It's gotten us out of the deep RVS, though I'd say we're not quite out of it yet. Seems to me like you're just trying to just pile more suspicion on Anti/Porkchop.

[mykonian]

to the people we haven't heard a lot from: in this game you are supposed to be looking for mafia. However, you will never find there is no action in the game. So you have to investigate, to catch them. Sitting and waiting what the others do for you, and trying to catch scum then, while lurking, is scummy. Since scum would do that: waiting for someone to slip up, and then mislynch him.

So

FoS alvarian, and stands2reason

[iamausername]

-=Vote Count #2=-

AntiSemantic (3) - Signore del Fiori, Pierre Sickle, PorkchopExpress
PorkchopExpress (2) - mykonian, AntiSemantic

Not Voting (4) - Alviaran, Einlanzers, Spinach, stands2reason

5 to lynch.

-=Alviaran and AntiSemantic have been prodded.=-

[Alviaran]

Sorry I haven't posted. Been following, just haven't had much to say. The game has been moving a tad slow compared to what I'm dealing with on another site.

I'm not dead yet!

[Pierre Sickle]

Sorry I haven't posted. Been

following

, just haven't had much to say. The game has been moving a tad slow compared to what I'm dealing with on another site.

I'm not dead yet!

You were following?

That's like lurking, in some way isn't it?

[Alviaran]

Sorry I haven't posted. Been

following

, just haven't had much to say. The game has been moving a tad slow compared to what I'm dealing with on another site.

I'm not dead yet!

You were following?

That's like lurking, in some way isn't it?

If you want to call it that, sure. I don't really think of it the same since I'm saying when I lacked time, I still made time to get caught up on reading things even if I can't dedicate much time to indepth analysis or sharing my thoughts. I'm not ignoring it for days on end and playing catchup. Just barely staying caught up.

[PorkchopExpress]

Pardon my absence, an looong weekend of paintball and work has left me tired, bruised and with a two-day long headache. Personally, I couldn't be happier (or more dead in the head). I will be back some time today with a post.

[Einlanzers]

Why do you find so called 'silly' arguing scummy? I thought that that something scummy was something that scum generally do or something that is an advantage for scum to do. I don't see this as either, in fact, isn't this argument better than nothing? It's gotten us out of the deep RVS, though I'd say we're not quite out of it yet. Seems to me like you're just trying to just pile more suspicion on Anti/Porkchop.

Quite the contrary, in the 2 previous games I've played in there was always a conversation in Day 1 that made us think that 1 person or the other was scummy and it usually ended up that both people were town and we lynched one and had suspicions of the other...and regardless it doesn't usually end well. Now I'm not saying that AS and PCE are town for sure, but they method they are using is definantly NOT scum-hunting. Bickering about minor details in someone's statement does not make you the town savior. Finding HUGE flaws or contradictions, however does. So to sum it up...I wasn't saying they were scummy...just that it is something I dislike.

[Pierre Sickle]

Why do you find so called 'silly' arguing scummy? I thought that that something scummy was something that scum generally do or something that is an advantage for scum to do. I don't see this as either, in fact, isn't this argument better than nothing? It's gotten us out of the deep RVS, though I'd say we're not quite out of it yet. Seems to me like you're just trying to just pile more suspicion on Anti/Porkchop.

Quite the contrary, in the 2 previous games I've played in there was always a conversation in Day 1 that made us think that 1 person or the other was scummy and it usually ended up that both people were town and we lynched one and had suspicions of the other...and regardless it doesn't usually end well. Now I'm not saying that AS and PCE are town for sure, but they method they are using is definantly NOT scum-hunting. Bickering about minor details in someone's statement does not make you the town savior. Finding HUGE flaws or contradictions, however does. So to sum it up...I wasn't saying they were scummy...just that it is something I dislike.

Excuse my newbiness:

So basically; people taking things the wrong way?

[mykonian]

yes, things like that happen. You can read things wrong. But there will also be people who do that on purpose, just to make a case on you that way. In general, it is best to be as clear as possible. It doesn't give others the excuse to do that.

What is your opinion on it?

[SemanticError]

Sorry for the absence. Thanksgiving + midterms = lack of free computer time.

Will post content this evening, after exam.

[Einlanzers]

Pierre, it generally stems from people taking things personally. Then they have a battle over semantics and minor details just because feelings got hurt. So moral of the story:
A) Don't take things personally.
B) Don't throw unsupported accusations at people.
C) Have fun

[Spinach]

Why do you find so called 'silly' arguing scummy? I thought that that something scummy was something that scum generally do or something that is an advantage for scum to do. I don't see this as either, in fact, isn't this argument better than nothing? It's gotten us out of the deep RVS, though I'd say we're not quite out of it yet. Seems to me like you're just trying to just pile more suspicion on Anti/Porkchop.

Quite the contrary, in the 2 previous games I've played in there was always a conversation in Day 1 that made us think that 1 person or the other was scummy and it usually ended up that both people were town and we lynched one and had suspicions of the other...and regardless it doesn't usually end well. Now I'm not saying that AS and PCE are town for sure, but they method they are using is definantly NOT scum-hunting. Bickering about minor details in someone's statement does not make you the town savior. Finding HUGE flaws or contradictions, however does. So to sum it up...I wasn't saying they were scummy...just that it is something I dislike.

But how are we supposed to find HUGE flaws and contradictions if no-one is talking? We HAVE to start somewhere, I mean, without that so-called silly argument where would we be? We can't just stand around doing nothing waiting for somebody to screw up. And I'd like links to those games, please, because I'm thinking that you're just exaggerating the situation. Also, I'd hate to sound pessimistic, but a scum lynch is rare on D1, so a townie being lynched isn't exactly the worst thing in the world, I mean, a town lynch leaves something to go off of, such as bandwagons (if there were any) and looking at voting patterns and such.

So to sum it up...I wasn't saying they were scummy...just that it is something I dislike.

Things I don't like (AKA find scummy):

1) AntiSemantic's "vanilla town claim" joke in p14.
2) PorkchopExpress's vote without reason (even a joking one) in p22

3) Silly arguing between PCE and AS all over the place.

4) stands2reasons's unvote after an explanation of L-1 and an unvote from Spinach in p38

Things I do like:

How silly you all are arguing over food tastes.

So let me get this straight:
You say that the PCE/AS 'silly' arguing it's not scummy, just something you dislike, but you've clearly stated that you found it scummy.
You find 'silly' arguing between PCE and AS bad, yet you say silly arguing over foods isn't.

FoS: Einlanzers

I think I spot a contradiction.

[iamausername]

-=stands2reason has been prodded=-

-=swimmer4lyfe replaces Signore del Fiori=-

[swimmer4lyfe]

hello all. I was going to say Signore was scummy for not unvoting but hey I replaced him.

unvote

in case the votes weren't cleared.

To me, the porkchop and AS debate is meaningless. They both look like frustrated players, and to me thats more of a townie sign.

Pierre, on the other hand, is way way more scummy

vote: Pierre

:

italics emphasis is mine

o, yes, before I forget: it would be appreciated if you didn't claim too early, unless you are mafia Townie claims are usually not helping the town, but are helping the mafia.

I guess I should hold off on the vanilla townie claim then, eh?

Unvote: Alviaran, Vote: AntiSemantic

Misleading role claim?

Then again, if someone will jump a bandwagon suddenly, this much into the game; I'll put on my FoS. It could be activity limits,

but then it's still RvS.

So accusing an obvious joke roleclaim of being serious, putting a serious vote down, but hey guys its still RvS

I find this scummy, not only because of the contradiction, but because townies shouldn't really be worried about whether their votes are "weighty". Mafia would worry about vote analysis later in the game. This is definitely scummy.

I hereby do stand quite well behind my previous vote for AntiSemantic. It looks like he/she (?) is

trying to mislead

us and give quite a lot of reasons,

JUST at Semi-RvS

. By the way, is it frowned upon to start a bandwagon, even if you do have some pretty good reasons, and

I am not trying right now to start one mind you

.

mislead us? how? AS is just arguing semantics, and isn't leading anyone anywhere. Nice usage of verbage tho to make a frustrated townie look scummier.

Also mentions again that we're still in joke vote phase when we're clearing not.

and then again with the "not trying to start a bandwagon..don't lynch me when he flips townie" reasoning.

I hereby do stand quite well behind my previous vote for AntiSemantic. It looks like he/she (?) is trying to mislead us and give quite a lot of reasons, JUST at Semi-RvS. By the way, is it frowned upon to start a bandwagon, even if you do have some pretty good reasons, and I am not trying right now to start one mind you.

What are you trying to do then, exactly?

Noticed this now, what I am trying to do is give a point. Something simply to consider and take in mind for later, if it does result in a case where AS needs some sort of proof.

But now, your turning me the other way right now

. That post in itself sounded awkward.

You've just tried to buckle someone trying to help under pressure

, though you were initially arguing with AntiSemantic in the first place.

It's still RVS

but I'm putting the

FOS: PorkChopExpress

right now, but hey, this is still just a reply to your post.

Porkchop calls out exactly what I'm saying, but not so eloquently. Instead of defending his opinion, or restating his opinion, Pierre immediately goes defensive and FOS' him. Nice. I thought it was a reasonable question to ask Pierre.

Also with the "guys its still RVS don't mind me, these votes aren't serious" when its clearly not RVS anymore.

Sorry I haven't posted. Been

following

, just haven't had much to say. The game has been moving a tad slow compared to what I'm dealing with on another site.

I'm not dead yet!

You were following?

That's like lurking, in some way isn't it?

Immediately jumps on a lurker after they posted how they're following but tied up in another game. Although lurking is scummy, I think Alviaran is being sincere at the moment.

Anyways that's what I got so far. I also think stand2alone was scummy as hell for his posts, so putting a

FOS: stand2reason

. I won't talk about who I find townie because it just gives the mafia ammo. Maybe in the future.

so yeah lynch Pierre

[swimmer4lyfe]

also HEY IM SO EXCITED YAY MY FIRST MAFIA GAME

[Einlanzers]

@Spinach:
Previous games:
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11691
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12122

And as you can see in my last game we lynched scum first-night. I hammered town second-night. And lynched scum third-night. So lynching scum on Day 1 does happen.

Spinach, to further the discussion on the AS/PCE arguing: It doesn't make them scum for arguing, but it distracts the town from other issues and can start a flame war that could lead to someone being lynched for the wrong reasons. And the act HELPS mafia, so the act is scummy, but the people doing it aren't necessarily scum..if that makes any sense.

@swimmer4lyfe:
Wow, for this being your first mafia game you sure know how to put together a good recap. Although I don't agree with all your points 100% you do make some pretty compelling arguments. Welcome to the game!

[Alviaran]

While I understand the logic that a town lynch still gives information, I don't really care for the very "oh well" attitude you have there, Spinach. We should be trying to avoid a mislynch as much as possible, even if it is day 1.

[Einlanzers]

@Alvarian
I agree that we should be avoiding a town lynch as much as possible. There are a limited number of cases in which lynching a town is beneficial for information.

The hard part about that is that you are never 100% sure that someone is scum or town. You are just making guesses based off of what they said and interactions with other people (and later on voting patterns).

TBH, I'm liking Spinach and swimmer4lyfe's playing so far. They are the most towny people according to my scumdar. I still have no idea who scum could be so far. I'm not getting any overly scummy reads from anyone as-of-yet.

[stands2reason]

stands, I think you should vote as you want to vote, but you need to realize that your vote can have repercussions. If someone would have hammered Porkchop and he would have turned up to be town then you would have had a hand in that.

However, Spinach already took away that possibility by unvoting putting him back at L-2, so 2 people would have had to vote to lynch him. You unvoting doesn't really matter. You just put him at L-3. So if you DO think that he is scum you should vote for him, but DO NOT put someone at L-1 unless you are SURE of it.

That being said I give Spinach +1 town point for prevention of early hammer.

OK then. I still think he's kinda suspcious, so

vote: PE

[Alviaran]

@Alvarian
I agree that we should be avoiding a town lynch as much as possible. There are a limited number of cases in which lynching a town is beneficial for information.

The hard part about that is that you are never 100% sure that someone is scum or town. You are just making guesses based off of what they said and interactions with other people (and later on voting patterns).

TBH, I'm liking Spinach and swimmer4lyfe's playing so far. They are the most towny people according to my scumdar. I still have no idea who scum could be so far. I'm not getting any overly scummy reads from anyone as-of-yet.

Like I said, I don't like the attitude to it, that's all. I don't necessarily see him as scummy because of it so much as a sort of defeatist mentality, almost like "We will mislynch day 1. Get over it. Let's lynch someone and get some information out of that"

Hell, I'm not even going to FoS him yet. I'm still waiting for someone to ping my own scumdar.

[swimmer4lyfe]

OK then. I still think he's kinda suspcious, so

vote: PE

why is he suspicious

[mykonian]

I have a small dislike for contradictions that are spotted, really when they aren't game related:

unvote vote spinach

further, guys who don't yet have one, a avatar would be appreciated. It makes games a lot easier to read.

[Alviaran]

further, guys who don't yet have one, a avatar would be appreciated. It makes games a lot easier to read.

Sorry, been lazy about that. This should make things easier now.

[SemanticError]

Once again, sorry for the absence. But I'm back now. And hopefully I won't feel the need to defend my sense of humor TOO much more in this game...

So to sum it up...I wasn't saying they were scummy...just that it is something I dislike.

Things I don't like (AKA find scummy):

1) AntiSemantic's "vanilla town claim" joke in p14.
2) PorkchopExpress's vote without reason (even a joking one) in p22

3) Silly arguing between PCE and AS all over the place.

4) stands2reasons's unvote after an explanation of L-1 and an unvote from Spinach in p38

Things I do like:

How silly you all are arguing over food tastes.

So let me get this straight:
You say that the PCE/AS 'silly' arguing it's not scummy, just something you dislike, but you've clearly stated that you found it scummy.
You find 'silly' arguing between PCE and AS bad, yet you say silly arguing over foods isn't.

FoS: Einlanzers

I think I spot a contradiction.

@Spinach: Are we really so desperate that we have to nitpick the smallest of word choices? Words can have multiple meanings, and while Ein does use the same words, he is clearly making different points, and communicating them well. Each statement involving the words you question presents a reasonable idea within it's own context.

Jumping on insignificant things like this is pretty useless.

@swimmer: Glad to have you in the game. Even if this is your first round, you've done some research, and know what works.