Mini 856 - Star Control: Zeta Sextantis - Over


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Post Post #450 (ISO) » Mon Oct 12, 2009 8:43 pm

Post by Rising »

Kast wrote:The third (which is the only case where it would be reasonable to consider picking up either of you) implies a game setup in which townies do not want to pick up anyone.
What?

It
would
be reasonable to pick up either one of sigma/Porkens if townies
did not
want to pick up anyone? That doesn't make any sense.
Kast wrote:IF A AND B, THEN C.
[...]
A=Porkens is town.
B=Sigma is town.
C=It is probable that scum want to get aboard a town ship.
Why would it be probable that scum would want to get aboard a town ship if Porkens and sigma are town?
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Post Post #451 (ISO) » Mon Oct 12, 2009 10:07 pm

Post by Locke Lamora »

Apologies for the absence, having difficulties getting online for enough time.

Let me get this straight: in addition to KRW's red ship, Porkens, sigma, Rosso Carne and Dry-fit are all also on red ships, and Porkens, sigma and Dry-fit all claim to be town?
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Post Post #452 (ISO) » Tue Oct 13, 2009 1:09 am

Post by Porkens »

I'm going back to my theory that Kast is just making as much noise as possible to distract the town. I'm not going to feed that fire anymore.

More votes on Rosso please.
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Post Post #453 (ISO) » Tue Oct 13, 2009 1:27 am

Post by Porkens »

But no, I can't let it go:

You wrote:
-If both Porkens and Sigma are town, that makes a strong implication that scum have some ability or incentive for getting on other player's ships. This makes me much less willing to rescue anyone.
How is that
not
"IFF Porkens is town AND Sigma is town, THEN It is probable that scum want to get aboard a town ship. IF It is probable that scum want to get aboard a town ship, THEN Town should not rescue .?"

My concern here is that you are calling me a liar when, in fact, I am not lying.
-Implying that you are not the doc IS damage. You promote others to join your speculation with agreement or disagreement. If you are town, then you have narrowed down possibilities for scum. This is anti-town. It is not a scumtell, it is a bad player tell. Your implication that not being a scumtell makes something okay is crap-logic.
-False. You already spelled out that you are not the doc. You should not have done that. It is terrible play for town. Telling you to stop talking about it is COMPLETELY OPPOSITE of telling you to comment with confirmation or denial.
Your interpretation
is that I'm not the doc. OR you are bringing up the possibility hoping that I'll clarify.

I fucking
LOVE
how you are taking
implications
that
you
see and calling them crap-logic.

I didn't spell out that I'm not the doc. You are inventing that in your own head. Opening up the subject of "doc" is an invitation to talk about the subject. Case in point: if you'd never brought up the doc here, we wouldn't be having this conversation.
I revealed part of my claim:
-I am Pkunk
-I can insult someone at night
--My target learns the player name of person who insulted them
--My target learns the effect of the insult
--My target learns the flavor of the insult
I have not revealed the effect of my ability. I have not revealed additional powers or even if I have any. Your attempts to draw more comments about this are fishing.
I honestly thought this was a full-claim of your ability. If it isn't, fine. Keep the rest to yourself, I honestly don't care. The fact that you targeted someone and that they confirm this are meaningless, anyway.


I'd also request that you tone down the "bad player" comments; they hurt my feelings.
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Post Post #454 (ISO) » Tue Oct 13, 2009 2:34 am

Post by Papa Zito »

Dry-fit wrote:Not really. I am on a red ship too.
Ah.

unvote: sigma
vote: Dry-fit
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Post Post #455 (ISO) » Tue Oct 13, 2009 4:29 am

Post by Porkens »

Why didn't you blow up your red ship Dry-Fit?
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Post Post #456 (ISO) » Tue Oct 13, 2009 4:29 am

Post by sigma »

Why the switch, Zito? Should we get dry-fit to ship-claim? I think he should ship-claim.

@all: Should we let Rosso get modkilled and lynch someone else? This opens up the possibility of a day 2 town victory if we have 2 scum remaining and they both die at the end of the day. That would be hilarious :lol:
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Post Post #457 (ISO) » Tue Oct 13, 2009 4:36 am

Post by Papa Zito »

sigma wrote:Why the switch, Zito? Should we get dry-fit to ship-claim? I think he should ship-claim.
I'm voting him because he A) didn't ship claim and B) didn't blow his ship up.
sigma wrote:@all: Should we let Rosso get modkilled and lynch someone else?
This is the route I'm following. No reason to lynch Rosso when he's just going to get modkilled anyway.
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Post Post #458 (ISO) » Tue Oct 13, 2009 4:38 am

Post by Dry-fit »

sigma wrote:That's the only thing over the last few days that was worth commenting on? :roll: Seriously, any additional thoughts on just about anything else would be helpful.
Pretty much all the discussion today has been about people's roles and the theme, which I know nothing about.
Kast wrote:@Dry-fit-
Does your race match your ship?
Yes.
Kast wrote:@Dry-Fit-
Was your claim of ship color prompted by Excedrin's claim of knowing RC's ship color?
No.
Porkens wrote:Why didn't you blow up your red ship Dry-Fit?
Becuase it matches my race.
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Post Post #459 (ISO) » Tue Oct 13, 2009 4:45 am

Post by Papa Zito »

Uh
Dry-Fit wrote:Not really. I am on a red ship too.
Dry-Fit wrote:
Kast wrote:@Dry-fit-
Does your race match your ship?
Yes.
SpyreX wrote:Both parts are colored how they would investigate (if that is possible)
Alliance
,
Hierarchy
or
????
I've never seen scum claim before. wow
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Post Post #460 (ISO) » Tue Oct 13, 2009 4:53 am

Post by sigma »

:shock:

Vote: Dry-fit


yeah, so are you claiming scum dry-fit? If not, I'd like a full-claim now.
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Post Post #461 (ISO) » Tue Oct 13, 2009 5:16 am

Post by Dry-fit »

Shit. I guess I am a miller then. Of course I'm not claiming scum.
I am Admiral ZEX, and am on Admiral ZEX's Vux Intruder.
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Post Post #462 (ISO) » Tue Oct 13, 2009 5:37 am

Post by sigma »

ooo, interesting. I'll let Zito give the flavor rundown. I'll just say that ZEX is not a generic Vux, but is a fairly important character in SCII.
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Post Post #463 (ISO) » Tue Oct 13, 2009 5:39 am

Post by sigma »

actually, a question.

Is your name in red as well? I assume you're claiming that your win condition is the same as the town's?
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Post Post #464 (ISO) » Tue Oct 13, 2009 5:46 am

Post by Papa Zito »

Dry-fit wrote:I guess I am a miller then.
You guess?

What did you think you were?
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Post Post #465 (ISO) » Tue Oct 13, 2009 5:49 am

Post by Papa Zito »

sigma wrote:I'll just say that ZEX is not a generic Vux
Lawl, that's an understatement.

The VUX hate the Earthlings with a passion because the Earthlings are ugly... in fact that's why the VUX went to war with them in the first place. But ZEX is something of a fetishist, and finds humans er alluring. So he ends up helping the good Captain Zelnick out during the game.

That makes ZEX more of a traitor than miller tho IMO.
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Post Post #466 (ISO) » Tue Oct 13, 2009 6:47 am

Post by Porkens »

A
very
strange claim.

To say that you match a red ship is...why wouldn't you lie about that?!

unvote, Vote: Dry-Fit


Rosso wont get modkilled unless we get very close to the deadline.
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Post Post #467 (ISO) » Tue Oct 13, 2009 7:48 am

Post by Kmd4390 »

Porkens to Kast wrote:Oh quit rolefishing already
VERY strongly agree. Stop trying to find the doc, Kast.
Kast wrote: False. You posted "I'm not a doc, I think we have no doc", and I posted, "Your post is anti-town and helps scum find townie power roles." So please stop helping them and don't encourage townies to engage in similar anti-town behavior.
I must have missed this because all I saw was Porkens speculating on where the kill went (I'd do this even as doc just to confuse scum) and you straight up said that Porkens isn't a doc. That's when he called you on fishing.
Dry-fit wrote: Not really. I am on a red ship too.
:shock:

Unvote
.

Porkens and Sigma are confirmed red ships. Excedrin claims that Rosso is on a red ship. Now Dry-fit is claiming one. Throw in Jelly's and that's 5 red ships. I seriously doubt that we have 5 scum. I seriously doubt that someone would lie about being on a red ship. The only possible lie, which I don't find likely, is Excedrin claiming that Rosso is on a red ship. That would still leave 4 red ships, 3 of them confirmed. The thing about Sigma that didn't add up was the ship. According to Zito, Sigma's roleclaim was actually very strong.

So I guess now would be the time to start ignoring the red ships as being a scumtell. I want to say back to where I left off yesterday and vote Rising, but Kast's rolefishing is a little too much and I don't think Kast/Rising are scum together.

Hmm.
sigma wrote: @all: Should we let Rosso get modkilled and lynch someone else? This opens up the possibility of a day 2 town victory if we have 2 scum remaining and they both die at the end of the day. That would be hilarious :lol:
Yeah, I wouldn't lynch someone who could be modkilled anyway.
Dry-fit wrote:
Kast wrote:@Dry-fit-
Does your race match your ship?
Yes.
Wait, what? Red ship that matches your race? How's that make sense as town?
Dry-fit wrote:Shit.
I guess
I am a miller then. Of course I'm not claiming scum.
I am Admiral ZEX, and am on Admiral ZEX's Vux Intruder.
You don't
know
that you are a miller, but your role is red? And for you to be a miller and red, you'd have to be a death miller, because all alliance flips green. Also interesting that viewing you in ISO, you don't mention Keelie at all. Not once.

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Post Post #468 (ISO) » Tue Oct 13, 2009 8:11 am

Post by Dry-fit »

I should have realized I'm a miller. I completely forgot about
SpyreX wrote:Both parts are colored how they would investigate (if that is possible)
Alliance
,
Hierarchy
or
????
sigma wrote:actually, a question.

Is your name in red as well? I assume you're claiming that your win condition is the same as the town's?
My name is in red as well. My win condition is the same as town's.
Kmd4390 wrote:Wait, what? Red ship that matches your race? How's that make sense as town?
Kmd4390 wrote:You don't know that you are a miller, but your role is red? And for you to be a miller and red, you'd have to be a death miller, because all alliance flips green.
Look at post 370. There are three parts to a reveal, Captain name, race, and alignment(as we saw in Keelie's flip.) If i flip, the first two should be red, and the third one green.
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Post Post #469 (ISO) » Tue Oct 13, 2009 8:16 am

Post by Excedrin »

Dry-fit, did you do anything or learn anything from night?

Is it bad to ask for a full claim here?

Since you're VUX and you're on a VUX ship, you can use racial abilities, lots of speculation possible here.

Admiral ZEX was a traitor in game, he helped Zelnick despite being hierarchy, then died after Zelnick delivered his end of a deal.
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Post Post #470 (ISO) » Tue Oct 13, 2009 8:17 am

Post by Kmd4390 »

Wait, that's investigate, not flip. So you could actually be a miller. Does your Role PM specifically say that you are a miller?

Meh. I doubt scum would come out this easily.

Unvote, Vote Kast
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Post Post #471 (ISO) » Tue Oct 13, 2009 8:28 am

Post by Excedrin »

Kmd4390 wrote:Wait, that's investigate, not flip. So you could actually be a miller. Does your Role PM specifically say that you are a miller?

Meh. I doubt scum would come out this easily.

Unvote, Vote Kast
Kast's actions prev night confirm to me that he's Pkunk. There's something unrelated to Kast's ability that I haven't revealed that doubly confirms that he is Pkunk. If it's possible, I'd rather not reveal it at all.

Basically this is a vote on a confirmed Alliance.
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Post Post #472 (ISO) » Tue Oct 13, 2009 8:37 am

Post by sigma »

Kmd4390 wrote: Meh. I doubt scum would come out this easily.
Agree.

With that said, we're a long way from a lynch. Rosso is the obvious choice if he ever makes an appearance, but what if he doesn't?

I believe the claims of Kast, Zito, dry-fit and porkens. KMD and Excedrin are gut-town reads for me. That leaves Plum, rising, and Locke.

Of the three, I'll take Locke. he's lurking, and I was suspicious of him yesterday.

Unvote

Vote: Locke Lamora
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Post Post #473 (ISO) » Tue Oct 13, 2009 8:37 am

Post by SpyreX »

Votecount:


Kmd4390 (0)
Dry-fit (2): Papa Zito, Porkens
Locke Lamora (0)
Papa Zito (0)
Excedrin (0)
Plum (0)
Rising (0)
Kast (1): Kmd4390
sigma (0):
Rosso Carne (3): Rising, Kast, Excedrin

Porkens (0)

Not Voting: Dry-fit, Llocke Lamora, Plum, sigma, Rosso Carne

With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch!


Deadline: Saturday, October 17th at 10:30 PM PST


The following player could face modkill at the current rate: Rosso Carne. Prods are sent.
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I always lynch scum... sometimes they're just not mafia. :P

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Third Party: (2-0)
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Post Post #474 (ISO) » Tue Oct 13, 2009 8:44 am

Post by Kast »

@Porkens-
How is that not "IFF Porkens is town AND Sigma is town, THEN It is probable that scum want to get aboard a town ship. IF It is probable that scum want to get aboard a town ship, THEN Town should not rescue .?"
I assumed this was clear, looks like that was a mistaken assumption on my part.

"IFF A AND B, THEN C" is different from "IF A AND B, THEN C". IFF would mean that "IF NOT A OR NOT B, THEN NOT C" which is false. C can be true without both A and B being true. From a townie PoV, each player who makes a claim suggesting that C is true makes it more probable that C is in fact true.

A townie should not know what situation we are in. {A&B, !A&B, A&!B, !A&!B} However, all situations argue for D or suggest that we are in C, which reduces to D due to uncertainty.

IF a player strongly believes A, THEN it is better to rescue A. Same for B. This is and has been what I posted from the beginning, despite Porkens trying to twist things out of context and remove that part.
I didn't spell out that I'm not the doc. You are inventing that in your own head. Opening up the subject of "doc" is an invitation to talk about the subject. Case in point: if you'd never brought up the doc here, we wouldn't be having this conversation.
Don't make implications like that. YOU made the implication without realizing how much of a terrible play it was. The ONLY reason it was brought up is because YOU decided to make such a terrible play. Please stop. If you continue, I will continue to tell you to stop.

This isn't an
interpretation
, it is a direct implication of your post. Don't make a post like that. When someone points out the problem with it, don't defend that terrible play by throwing around an inapplicable term.
I honestly thought this was a full-claim of your ability. If it isn't, fine. Keep the rest to yourself, I honestly don't care. The fact that you targeted someone and that they confirm this are meaningless, anyway.
This is inconsistent with your previous objection.
You said "I'm not going to give out info about my role." Then you said "I can do X, Y, and Z and I'm Pkunk" no?
Your previous objection was that Kast claimed he would not give information but then gave information. Regardless of whether you thought I gave a full claim or you realized I gave a partial claim, your insistence that I said I would not give out role information was false.

-Suggestion: Instead of feeling bad, fix your behavior.

@KMD-
(I'd do this even as doc just to confuse scum)
By posting this, you are admitting that Porkens post
IS
claiming that he is not doc. He may have been intending to confuse scum. Again, I asked him to STOP COMMENTING on it. Instead he keeps bringing it up and claiming there is nothing wrong.

It is possible to comment on a night kill or lack of night kill without claiming that you yourself are not responsible. Porken's CHOSE to do so which is EXTREMELY anti-town.

@Rising/Sigma/Why townies claiming they have ships that scum would like to get on implies that scum would like to get on those ships-
Again, I thought this was obvious, but looks like I was mistaken. And to be clear, Porkens claimed that scum would want to board his ship and that he was destroying the ship because he did not want to let that happen.

If a townie genuinely has a powerful scum ship that isn't a normal part of SC2 game mechanics and/or flavor, that implies that the mod has a reason for including that, either as an in game mechanic or as a red herring.

For a game as complex as this one, with an already known mechanic for transferring players between ships, game setup information that implies scum want to get on board a townie ship makes it more probable that scum want to get on board a townie ship.

@Dry-fit/Zito/Red Ship-
-Is it plausible that Dry-fit's claim would be a townie?
-I agree that it is unlikely that Dry-Fit or RC don't have red ships. I think it is very probable that lynching a player out of the known red ship group is more likely to hit scum than picking a random player.
-Based on the timing of Dry-Fit's claim, I'd guess that he is claiming miller to forestall a suspected investigation tonight.
-I am surprised that Dry-Fit answered my question directly. Could be a slip or honesty.

I am fine with lynching either Dry-Fit or RC today.

Unvote, Vote: Dry-Fit

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