Mini 856 - Star Control: Zeta Sextantis - Over

[Papa Zito]

Quit

role

ship fishing.

I don't care which ship it is, as long as it's Hierarchy. You know, to help verify what you're saying.

[Porkens]

It's in one of you "non-guaranteed alliance" lists. Again, I'm not going to say which. Pretend it is an ur-quan dreadnaught and one of the scum have a pre-self-destruct ship swap ability, you like me to say for sure which ship I'm in now?

[Kmd4390]

Porkens, do you know that the ship is a scum ship or are you assuming?

[Porkens]

I know for certain that it is scum because its name is in red.

[Papa Zito]

It's in one of you "non-guaranteed alliance" lists.

Erm. Then why would you declare it a scum ship?

Actually, let me broaden this a bit - what was the point of claiming this information?

Again, I'm not going to say which. Pretend it is an ur-quan dreadnaught and one of the scum have a pre-self-destruct ship swap ability, you like me to say for sure which ship I'm in now?

You.... wat?? Are you just making stuff up now?

[Papa Zito]

lol cross-post

Being able to move a race from "dunno" to "scum" would be muy bueno, you know.

[Porkens]

Bah, you tricked me. I didn't mean to say red. Red or Yellow, is what I meant.

[Plum]

lol cross-post

Being able to move a race from "dunno" to "scum" would be muy bueno, you know.

Not muy bueno enough for me, thanks. Porkens implied that the scum might use the info to their benefit and suggested a scenario with the ramifications of whatever circumstances make him want to keep his mouth shut on that count. Rolefishing stops HERE.

[Papa Zito]

Actually, let me broaden this a bit - what was the point of claiming this information?

Still want this.

Porkens implied that the scum might use the info to their benefit and suggested a scenario with the ramifications of whatever circumstances make him want to keep his mouth shut on that count.

Do you find his scenario at all credible?

[Porkens]

I guess I'm not making my point clear. The whole ability to leave a ship/maybe get pushed off the ship indicates to me that someone out there may be able to hijack, punch off, or otherwise move people around ships.

Since the ship abilities are racial (this one's is, anyway), this race would want to take this ship. So, I don't want to say who it would be useful to.

I'm assuming that blown-up ships will show in the day start, or that I'll be alive to tell y'all tomorrow which one it was.

I think that's more valuable than moving one race in certainty from one list to the other, especially since (modmeta) Spyr certainly gave safe-claims.

I brought this up so people would have something concrete to talk about, and because I thought it would be best, strategically, for the town. The only downside I see is the aforementioned info to the scum.

[Porkens]

Do you find his scenario at all credible?

oh wait, I thought you didn't understand that it was a "scenario."

FoS on Zito

[Plum]

Porkens implied that the scum might use the info to their benefit and suggested a scenario with the ramifications of whatever circumstances make him want to keep his mouth shut on that count.

Do you find his scenario at all credible?

Absolutely.

[Papa Zito]

I guess I'm not making my point clear. The whole ability to leave a ship/maybe get pushed off the ship indicates to me that someone out there may be able to hijack, punch off, or otherwise move people around ships.

Since the ship abilities are racial (this one's is, anyway), this race would want to take this ship. So, I don't want to say who it would be useful to.

I'm assuming that blown-up ships will show in the day start, or that I'll be alive to tell y'all tomorrow which one it was.

I think that's more valuable than moving one race in certainty from one list to the other, especially since (modmeta) Spyr certainly gave safe-claims.

I brought this up so people would have something concrete to talk about, and because I thought it would be best, strategically, for the town. The only downside I see is the aforementioned info to the scum.

Okay, all this stuff makes sense.

Spyrex gives safeclaims? That's good to know.

I guess we'll see what blows up tomorrow then.

[Kmd4390]

I didn't get a fakeclaim in Pale Moon Risin', which Spy modded.

[Porkens]

...I...oh. My bad, I retract that modifom.

[Kast]

@Keelie-
I get that you are saying the lurking is unintentional/involuntary. The point remains that you aren't present much and that you not being present is not helpful for the town. Please continue to post what you can and try to increase frequency. Your vote on Rosso is suboptimal given that we need to agree on a lynch target.

@Dry-Fit-
I agree that it would be difficult for you to drop all blame to me if you successfully pushed a mislynch. However, that does not mean you (or scum in general) would not attempt that. If I were killed, it would make it much easier as you could boldly associate your push with a dead confirmed townie and try to gain credibility. Regardless, I think this is a significant enough possibility that my vote belongs on you.

@Locke-
There is nothing inherently scummy about being wrong. Content of some wrong or incorrect posts could be scummy. Refusing to correct an incorrect belief after being shown that it is incorrect is anti-town. It can also be scummy depending on the content.

@Rising-
-Excedrin prefaced his post by making it clear that he did not know for certain what Sigma was posting, however he was providing a counter-example to one possible reason behind Sigma's statement (which did not have any reasons shared yet). At the time, Sigma's reasoning for warning against asking other players to place real votes was left ambiguous, but the clear implication was that there is not sufficient time to make a good case.

-Absence of other cases does not make a terrible case any less terrible. Also, your case was worse than an arbitrary/random vote.

-I initially posted that Dry-Fit was misrepresenting Sigma's post. Your post essentially rehashes what I said.

@Porkens-
-How does the information that you shared help the town converge on a lynch suspect? You've also just shared your planned night actions with scum and have directly shared information which you yourself admit could be beneficial to them. It looks like you are attempting to distract the town from successfully lynching today.

-If scum are actually looking for your ship as you suggest, then you've just painted a target for them. Jettisoning will also leave you outside your ship and at the mercy of whoever decides to pick you up tomorrow. If nobody takes the risk of picking up a potential ship hijacker (which I'm going to admit now that I see almost no chance of picking up someone whose claimed flavor is that he hijacked a ship), and you are a townie, then you've just killed off a townie for scum. I suppose if you are scum, you can safely get picked up by an ally if absolutely necessary.

-Unnecessary mega posting.
That's debatable. Also, you fail to say why this is scummy.
-Too many pbpa's on day one,
That's debatable. Also, you fail to say why this is scummy.
-expressing very strong reads on people.
How is this bad?
-Preferring no-lynch
This is a lie. I specifically stated I prefer lynching anyone over no lynch.
-Does not attack lurkers strongly enough.
Wtf? I guess you were too busy not reading the "unnecessary megaposts" to realize that I'm the person who called out Keelie for disappearing (and that goes for almost everyone else who had stopped posting).

Actually, let me broaden this a bit - what was the point of claiming this information?

I brought this up so people would have something concrete to talk about, and because I thought it would be best, strategically, for the town. The only downside I see is the aforementioned info to the scum.

Please elaborate on this. I don't follow how your information helps us or has any strategic benefit. Weakly, you could be referring to your guess that scum may have the ability to steal ships, but that is information you could have shared without revealing that you yourself have a scum allied ship.

Your claimed choice to destroy your ship likewise was completely unnecessary to share. If scum can steal ships but self destruction stops them, then you've given them fair warning to steal from someone else. If they can get around self destruction, then you've just revealed what you were afraid of. How does it help town at all to give us this information of your claimed night action choice?

@Zito-
Why did you assume that Porkens has role info suggesting my affiliation? What would you normally think if a player waits until right before deadline then suddenly tells people that he has role information indicating another player is scum; a player who he has not mentioned any suspicion of previously and actually completely ignored the entire game?

@Rosso-
If you actually played the game, people wouldn't need to ask you to do so.

@Mod-
-What happens to a ship when a player is killed/lynched?
-What happens to other players on the ship when the pilot is killed/lynched?
-What happens to the ship if a passenger is killed/lynched?
-When you rescue a jettisoned player, do you learn any information about that player?
-Does the rescued player learn any information about you or your ship?

[Locke Lamora]

First of all, I'll go ahead and:

unvote

Having read Zito's meta, KMD's assertion that he usually scumhunts more seems accurate. I think Zito's reaction could well be that he's simply a frustrated townie annoyed by the argument against him and I'm still a little uncomfortable about the way KMD attacked Zito but not to the point where I want a KMD lynch.

Porkens: what did you think the strategic benefit to town of revealing this info would be? What do you think is the point of being put on an anti-town ship with powers you can't use and that you can just blow up on night 1?

[Porkens]

-How does the information that you shared help the town converge on a lynch suspect? You've also just shared your planned night actions with scum and have directly shared information which you yourself admit could be beneficial to them. It looks like you are attempting to distract the town from successfully lynching today.

I announced this information to give to town something concretely game related to talk about. I don't know how you can say that I'm trying to distract the town from successfully lynching today. Whose lynch do you think I am preventing, and how am I preventing it?

-If scum are actually looking for your ship as you suggest, then you've just painted a target for them. Jettisoning will also leave you outside your ship and at the mercy of whoever decides to pick you up tomorrow. If nobody takes the risk of picking up a potential ship hijacker (which I'm going to admit now that I see almost no chance of picking up someone whose claimed flavor is that he hijacked a ship), and you are a townie, then you've just killed off a townie for scum. I suppose if you are scum, you can safely get picked up by an ally if absolutely necessary.

It was a risk giving this information to the scum, as I said, yes. But I think the focal point for conversation will be worth it.

-Unnecessary mega posting.
That's debatable. Also, you fail to say why this is scummy.

I explained why I think it's scummy a couple of pages ago; it's confusing and demoralizing to the town.

-Too many pbpa's on day one,
That's debatable. Also, you fail to say why this is scummy.

Fair enough; too many pbpa's fall under the category of too much mega posting, and have the same effect as too many mega posts. They also, for me, at least, send the message

hey look at me I'm playing so hard I must be so town you guys

.

-expressing very strong reads on people.
How is this bad?

It's too early in the game to have such solid reads. Especially since we had nothing game-related to go on.

-Preferring no-lynch
This is a lie. I specifically stated I prefer lynching anyone over no lynch.

Excuse me, this was my mistake, I miss-read one of your earlier posts. I retract this point.

-Does not attack lurkers strongly enough.
Wtf? I guess you were too busy not reading the "unnecessary megaposts" to realize that I'm the person who called out Keelie for disappearing (and that goes for almost everyone else who had stopped posting).

I guess I'm selfish or have bad self-esteem; you never called me out on it.

Actually, let me broaden this a bit - what was the point of claiming this information?

I brought this up so people would have something concrete to talk about, and because I thought it would be best, strategically, for the town. The only downside I see is the aforementioned info to the scum.

Please elaborate on this. I don't follow how your information helps us or has any strategic benefit. Weakly, you could be referring to your guess that scum may have the ability to steal ships, but that is information you could have shared without revealing that you yourself have a scum allied ship.

I feel that keeping this information to myself and hoping to deal with it independently has a higher risk of failure than bringing it to light now. I also suspect that knowing scum can use this ship, knowing that I was on it night one, and possibly knowing who might end up on it later could make it harder for the scum to take and use.

Your claimed choice to destroy your ship likewise was completely unnecessary to share. If scum can steal ships but self destruction stops them, then you've given them fair warning to steal from someone else. If they can get around self destruction, then you've just revealed what you were afraid of. How does it help town at all to give us this information of your claimed night action choice?

Maybe I'm lying. But that possibility should be obvious, so why are you fishing?

@Mod-
-What happens to a ship when a player is killed/lynched?
-What happens to other players on the ship when the pilot is killed/lynched?
-What happens to the ship if a passenger is killed/lynched?
-When you rescue a jettisoned player, do you learn any information about that player?
-Does the rescued player learn any information about you or your ship?

Good questions!

what did you think the strategic benefit to town of revealing this info would be? What do you think is the point of being put on an anti-town ship with powers you can't use and that you can just blow up on night 1?

I think I've answered the first question already, but let me know if you need more. To the second; I have no earthly idea; it's weird.

[Locke Lamora]

That's my main problem with this: it's very weird. Either a) there's someone in this game who that makes sense to, and if you're on a scum ship that may well be scum, or b) you've got ulterior motives in trying to get someone to pick you up. I'm leaning towards the latter because I just don't see why you would be given the option to simply blow a ship up that's of no use to you personally.

Mod: will we be told when ships are blown up and what alignment those ships are?

[Kmd4390]

Locke, vote someone. Who is scummier between Dry and Zito?

[sigma]

Kmd, I've been trying to decide whether your comment about needing to decide on one of the two current wagons is true. I think with 3 days left, it probably is.

I'm honestly not sure which of Zito or dry-fit is a better lynch. I'll continue researching them.

I believe Porkens' story. Why bother with have abilities be 'racial' if everyone starts with a ship aligned to their race?

[Kmd4390]

It's true unless you want to no lynch. Anyway, yeah. I want to say take your time, but we've only got a few days. So yeah..

[KeelieRavenWolf]

So we get the standard "I've been busy. Will come back" post and a Rosso vote for being angry. Jelly, why is anger a scumtell?

Not a scumtell, exactly. It's just the way the anger was put forth.

@Keelie-
I get that you are saying the lurking is unintentional/involuntary. The point remains that you aren't present much and that you not being present is not helpful for the town. Please continue to post what you can and try to increase frequency. Your vote on Rosso is suboptimal given that

we need to agree on a lynch target.

I'm sorry, I'm trying. Tonight is my night off, from both jobs, so I'll try and check in to see what's going on, possibly even post a few times tonight okay?
And I agree.

Unvote

I'll re-read all the past posts when I get a few spare minutes tonight and decide who I think seems scummier, okay?

[Kmd4390]

Holding you to that. No vote means expect a shit storm from me tomorrow. Same for everyone else. Mostly Locke and Sigma since they've posted recently.

[Papa Zito]

@Zito-
Why did you assume that Porkens has role info suggesting my affiliation? What would you normally think if a player waits until right before deadline then suddenly tells people that he has role information indicating another player is scum; a player who he has not mentioned any suspicion of previously and actually completely ignored the entire game?

He voted you in the same post as all the ship-talk, so I thought they were related.

Why would he wait? To see if the wagon would develop naturally without outing himself I suppose. I dunno, I'm not in his head.

...I...oh. My bad, I retract that modifom.

Dammit Porkens. lulz

@Mod: Votecount plz