Mini 852- Crayola Catastrophe Game Over (Post 1158)

[elvis_knits]

Chamber was replaced but the player slot is not dead. If you're saying chamber wagon was bad and he's town, then you're saying zazie is town too.

If you are a fan of people defending each other what makes budja commenting on an attack on me a scummy thing? I'm sure there are lots of other instances throughout the game of people doing similar things. So what makes this one worthy of comment and condemnation above all others?

I agree you only mentioned the one horrible argument about scum buddies. Is that "too much"? You decide.

I was more thinking that I didn't like your comments because of this part of my arguments:

noticing a connection between two players should not be the basis for thinking they're both scum

[Kirbyoshi]

I'm pretty sure that between Shanba and EK is one, and only one, scum. (I say only one because for right now I buy their bickering as not fake.) Snow's hammer was misdirection-saturated, and Josh just seemed scummy from his posts, most of which were just "I'm still here!" Josh also struck me as scummy because of SOG's flip (which btw was GENIUS Jester playing, srsly), since he agreed with SOG on the point of witholding info til a later time (post number forthcoming). Not sure yet which is scummier, but like I said, there's one scum there.

[Kirbyoshi]

he agreed with SOG on the point of witholding info til a later time (post number forthcoming).

Post 290.

[ChiboSempai]

Yea SOG did play Jester pretty damn well lol.

But all seriousness aside, I'm not buying these posts from Shanba.

I like how he tried to even call Snow_Bunny scummy but claims it's not a problem since he knows the hammer didn't come from a scum player. Since you're declaring yourself as a townie here, mind telling us which one?
It's too convenient to play the whole replacement excuse trying to push all of scum reads on the person he replaced onto that person, and not on the role they shared. If Snow_Bunny acted scummy (which I think we can agree overall it was a horrendously scummy move), it was because the role Snow_Bunny was playing was a scum role, not because Snow_Bunny was a scummy player. And the scum role gets passed onto the replacement, Shanba.

[elvis_knits]

Since you're declaring yourself as a townie here, mind telling us which one?

People don't claim unless they're about to be lynched. Asking him to is scummy. Even if I do think Shanba's scummy, this is wrong.

Congratulations, you have now made me think maybe Shanba is town.

[elvis_knits]

Since you're declaring yourself as a townie here, mind telling us which one?

People don't claim unless they're about to be lynched. Asking him to is scummy. Even if I do think Shanba's scummy, this is wrong.

Congratulations, you have now made me think maybe Shanba is town

.

[Battousai]

Pomegranate will be V/LA Friday night through Sunday night, and asked me to post it because she wouldn't be here to do it.

[ChiboSempai]

Since you're declaring yourself as a townie here, mind telling us which one?

People don't claim unless they're about to be lynched. Asking him to is scummy. Even if I do think Shanba's scummy, this is wrong.

Congratulations, you have now made me think maybe Shanba is town

.

I realize people generally wouldn't roleclaim until a situation which they are about to be lynched, which is why I asked. He had said that he knew Snow_Bunny wasn't scum (which in turn means that he's saying he's not scum which is the only way he would know). It's no different than someone being accused of scum actions yelling out "But I'm town!" So either I wanted to hear him elaborate on the issue, or refuse to even answer - which tbh would be acceptable considering he doesn't have a lot of votes atm. Also if he did answer what it would be would be interesting. There's a lot of answers that could have come from it.

I still just don't like how hes writing off all of Snow_Bunny's scummy actions on Snow_Bunny and not on the role, which is where it should be. He's attempting to clear suspicion by the substitution, not by finding valid reasons why him and his role aren't scummy.

[Pomegranate]

Pomegranate will be V/LA Friday night through Sunday night, and asked me to post it because she wouldn't be here to do it.

Actually, I am here now, but will be V/LA tonight through Sunday night, so thanks Battousai.

SoG, played well, but the lynch didn't help us much, except for Snowbunny's scummy hammer. I don't really buy her self-justification, and I'm somewhat suspicious of Shanba right now.

I didn't particularly like Josh's play D1, but I'm not that suspicious of her right now. She seems more likely town to me than Shanba.

Since you're declaring yourself as a townie here, mind telling us which one?

[color=dark red]People don't claim unless they're about to be lynched. Asking him to is scummy. Even if I do think Shanba's scummy, this is wrong.

Congratulations, you have now made me think maybe Shanba is town.

I agree with EK in that this was not necessary, and also a bit scummy, but I don't like her last sentence. Why do you think this, EK?

[Pomegranate]

Color tags-

[elvis_knits]

Well, I hate that now I am in the position to defend Shanba...

But WTF do you expect him to to? Whether he knows he's town or he has to pretend to know he's town, of course he will blame snowbunny's actions on her and not her role. And there's only so much a replacement can do to explain their predecessor's actions.

[elvis_knits]

I agree with EK in that this was not necessary, and also a bit scummy, but I don't like her last sentence. Why do you think this, EK?

I don't think shanba is obvtown or anything. But the fact that chibo seems to be rolefishing hard makes me think shanba

may

be town. You know, that he's the victim of rolefishing-scum-chibo.

[SocioPath]

Her hammer post was well... Interesting. I don't like how it turned out. Besides the fact she missed color (which almost everyone has done at some point or other) but it seems to hint at rushing to get that hammer in before someone unvotes. She posted 3 minutes later trying to explain how it was technically me who hammered him also claiming that she didn't realized she hammered him at first, but that's not gonna fly. If she had actually thought about what was going on and read the ~1 page of posts between her two votes, she would know whats going on, and there would also be no need for two posts, the first being rushed imo, which had to be in even 3 minutes before her explanation.

This. Very much this. Chibo is right on the money when it comes to the vote. When I looked at that vote on Bunny when the hammer dropped, I too noticed it wasn't in color. Then I noticed the rest of her votes...if was the ONLY one that wasn't in color. Too much on her mind perhaps.

Then there was her post after that, and we all know how that goes...

But also something important...she got replaced. A quick scan of her posting activity and shes still active and playing in her other games. Even games where she is being called out for being scummy. Yet she gest replaced out of THIS game.
Probably because she saw the town's response to the hammer before night hit, and was like 'OH SHI-*replaced*'
Shes new, she knows she screwed up, she couldn't take the pressure, she got replaced.

Then there is Shanba, who even admits that:

Gets weird and scummy at the end.

Yeah, I'd say its VERY weird and scummy. Especially the VERY end.



Also pointing out his hate for Josh's hate on Zaz's posts is silly.

Zaz wastes an entire post just to make a single reminder, several times...so Josh's reaction isn't too far fetched...but essentially attacking him for that?
Talk about the pot calling the kettle black...errr RED.

Vote: Shanba

[SocioPath]

I agree with EK in that this was not necessary, and also a bit scummy, but I don't like her last sentence. Why do you think this, EK?

I don't think shanba is obvtown or anything. But the fact that chibo seems to be rolefishing hard makes me think shanba

may

be town. You know, that he's the victim of rolefishing-scum-chibo.

Perhaps Chobo is too new to know otherwise.

[elvis_knits]

Yeah, maybe.

[Kirbyoshi]

Ok, so looking back, I think my case on Josh was a little far-fetched, and EK hasn't been acting scummy at all, so for the moment she's off my scumdar. Shanba, on the other hand,

has

been acting scummy (I concur with Chibo and Socio, although I trust Socio more atm), so, true to my only other post today...

Vote: Shanba

Chibo went up on my list for the rolefishing, but I think his case on Snow/Shanba holds water.

[Battousai]

Vote Count

Shanba (3) – ChiboSempai, SocioPath, Kirbyoshi
ChiboSempai (1) – Shanba

Not Voting (6): Pomegranate, Budja, GreenDude, Nachomamma8, ZazieR, Elvis_Knits


It takes 6 to lynch!

[Shanba]

Chamber was replaced but the player slot is not dead. If you're saying chamber wagon was bad and he's town, then you're saying zazie is town too.

I concede the point.

If you are a fan of people defending each other what makes budja commenting on an attack on me a scummy thing? I'm sure there are lots of other instances throughout the game of people doing similar things. So what makes this one worthy of comment and condemnation above all others?

This is the way I tihnk about it:

it is beneficial for scum to protect their scumpartners. This stops them from being lynched. It is beneficial for town to protect people they believe are town. This makes it more likely for scum to be lynched. If someone is protecting scum, this therefore makes them more likely to be scum. If I see a defence of a player I believe to be scummy by a player I believe to be scummy, I see this as evidence of a likely link - with the caveta that until I know the alignment of the defended player it's not too significant.

As for why weak attacks are more significant:

Imagine the following situation. A well respected player generally considered to look pro-town delivers a strong case (with several observations you know are actually true) on a scumpartner. Are you going to defend your scumpartner?

What about the following scenario: a scummy looking player delivers a weak yet legitimate barb at your scumpartner. You know if players follow up on paying attention to him, he could be in trouble. Do you defend him?

I'd say it would be far more likely in the second case than in the first. Indeed, at times in the past I have deliberately held back the stronger parts of my cases in order to draw reactions to the weaker parts before revealing my full hand, and I have caught scum that way.

Also, as to why it shouldn't impact a townie's play: he should only be worried about being linked to scum if he believes he is defending scum. If he believes that, why is he defending him?

I agree you only mentioned the one horrible argument about scum buddies. Is that "too much"? You decide.

1) it's not a horrible argument. I've given my side of this, you have yet to give yours. Please do so.
2) it's not the only reason I suspect these players.

I was more thinking that I didn't like your comments because of this part of my arguments:

noticing a connection between two players should not be the basis for thinking they're both scum

Which isn't what I said, so this is bull.

And everyone else is either riding EK's coattails or referencing the hammer. I'd like everyone to have more suspicions than just me even if I do get lynched today, so that there's some room for some actual analysis. Top 2 scummiest players please, everyone.

[Shanba]

As a sidenote, I don't think chibosempai asking me to claim is rolefishing.

[elvis_knits]

Shanba in either of those situations I probably ignore my scum buddy. But maybe that's just me. Well, I might buss my buddy in scenario where it's a good case, and ignore the whole thing in a weak case. Why leave a trail when the case probably amounts to nothing?

However, this is largely WIFOM.

I think I need to read the whole game in order to be sure what I think.

I agree you only mentioned the one horrible argument about scum buddies. Is that "too much"? You decide.

1) it's not a horrible argument. I've given my side of this, you have yet to give yours. Please do so.
2) it's not the only reason I suspect these players.

What do you mean I haven't given my side? Didn't this start with my side... What is it you need me to explain?

It seemed like a substantial part of your case to me. The only other part of your case being that they helped lynch a jester. Which you also did, BTW.

Also, I didn't.

I'm not sure what you dislike about joshlyman, so it seemed like you were condemning me based on budja defending me slightly. And you were saying he was scum for helping lynch a jester. If I'm misunderstanding this, let me know.

And everyone else is either riding EK's coattails or referencing the hammer. I'd like everyone to have more suspicions than just me even if I do get lynched today, so that there's some room for some actual analysis. Top 2 scummiest players please, everyone.

This is a good idea. We should be thinking about everyone in the game.

[Shanba]

Yeah, that's pretty wrong, since I was condemning budja's role on the chamberwagon (and in particular his unvote, which is weird at least partly because he never picks up on it again. I mean, no one else does either but no one else had said that they were completely dismissing the idea of a policy lynch and were just lynching him because he was scummy and that was that.)

Also, I gave about a paragraph and a half detailing why I didn't like Joshlyman and two why I didn't like budja. I'm slightly shocked that you're asking me this.

What do you mean I haven't given my side? Didn't this start with my side... What is it you need me to explain?

Why you think my logic about the connection is wrong. So far you've just said it's BS, which is fair enough if you're just giving an opinion, but you're actively trying to discredit me so I want a little bit more detail than that.

[elvis_knits]

ooh, I've managed to slightly shock shanba.

[Pomegranate]

I agree with EK in that this was not necessary, and also a bit scummy, but I don't like her last sentence. Why do you think this, EK?

I don't think shanba is obvtown or anything. But the fact that chibo seems to be rolefishing hard makes me think shanba

may

be town. You know, that he's the victim of rolefishing-scum-chibo.

Gotcha.

I'd like to hear from more people, like Greendude, Nacho, and Zazie. But I'd give them some time, considering that Night didn't end that long ago.

Shanba, from your first post today I come to the conclusion that you are more suspicious of Budja than EK. If that's so, why are you primarily making your case on EK?

[Shanba]

Um, I'm actually primarily suspicious of Chibo, hence the vote. I am more defending myself against EK (and defending my attack on EK against EK) than making a case against her.

Are any of you actually paying attention at this point?

[ChiboSempai]

Shanba, you're big post is practically trying to tell people how to play the game, or an analysis on common styles trying to metagame people in a general fashion. Your posts are so overly analytical for no apparent reason imo. That whole giant post was practically just a response to someone's opinion on a tie between two players shouldn't be seen as scummy right? Everyone's entitled to their own opinions and playstyles but it seems that everytime there is any more suspicion or disagreement with your posts you write even longer, more intricate posts it almost seems like your just trying to confuse people and get people thinking about other topics.

After reading that long post I almost forget why I even voted you. All I was thinking was trying to dissect your post and almost starting a side discussion about it, but this isn't the time nor place to do so. Elvis is also right that it's essentially a WIFOM situation.

And everyone else is either riding EK's coattails or referencing the hammer. I'd like everyone to have more suspicions than just me even if I do get lynched today, so that there's some room for some actual analysis. Top 2 scummiest players please, everyone.

Since you're suggesting most of us find you scummy, from a townie point of view, who is the other person you believe we should find most suspicious (if you can only pick one)?