Mini 836: Commie Mafia (Game Over)

[Cyberbob]

Cyberbob, when would you consider lynching him? There is no advantage in keeping him alive. If he is town, his role will give us no more info if we let him live longer. If he is scum, like I said, he's probably a roleblocker. It's not like if he was an information role, where we should keep him alive another night. His role is 100% unconfirmable and gives town no information.

My god you're right, we should just lynch every doctor-type role because they're unconfirmable and don't give us any information!!!

I don't see why this claim is believable to you and why you don't want to lynch him today.

I do "want" to lynch him today but I don't "want" to lynch his role even more. His claim is believable

enough

to me such that I want to be absolutely confident that he is scum before voting for him again. At the moment I am just not quite there yet, I'm sorry.

It may be that he says something that sways me back into getting on his wagon today, it may not - but until such time as I am more or less 100% confident that he is scum I will not support killing off his role.

[Cyberbob]

Either way: I want to hear from SC, Hoopla, le Chat and mathcam about this business.

[charter]

Either way: I want to hear from SC, Hoopla, le Chat and mathcam about this business.

Yes.

[SensFan]

Cyberbob, grow a backbone. Are you seriously advocating that you are ok with absolutely never lynching Scum D1?

[Cyberbob]

Cyberbob, grow a backbone. Are you seriously advocating that you are ok with absolutely never lynching Scum D1?

I'm sorry, what? Are you sure this is what you meant to write?

[SensFan]

Cyberbob, grow a backbone. Are you seriously advocating that you are ok with absolutely never lynching Scum D1?

I'm sorry, what? Are you sure this is what you meant to write?

Yes. If you were in charge of the Town, you would never lynch Scum D1.

[Cyberbob]

Cyberbob, grow a backbone. Are you seriously advocating that you are ok with absolutely never lynching Scum D1?

I'm sorry, what? Are you sure this is what you meant to write?

Yes. If you were in charge of the Town, you would never lynch Scum D1.

Oh, OK. Welp, guess it must be true then!

[SensFan]

Cyberbob, grow a backbone. Are you seriously advocating that you are ok with absolutely never lynching Scum D1?

I'm sorry, what? Are you sure this is what you meant to write?

Yes. If you were in charge of the Town, you would never lynch Scum D1.

Oh, OK. Welp, guess it must be true then!

How can you possibly deny it?
Or do you think Scum will just come out and claim either Townie or Flying Pumpkin With A Name I Don't Feel Like Looking Up?

[SerialClergyman]

I should have access to a real computer soon.

In the meantime - I liked the cathart claim until the roleblock of vaya. His story is that he didn't know a block would stop a kill, but he targetted scum anyway. He should either have been more adamant that vaya was innocent (because his block meant she couldn't have night killed) or he should have answered this charge by saying 'i assumed a third
scum committed the kill', not be surprised that the roleblock blocked kills.

vote cathart

[mathcam]

Agree with SC. Happy with vote.

Can someone explain why we're not questioning the presence of a "hot nurse" in a commie mafia game? Doesn't exactly seem topical...

Cam

[SerialClergyman]

I thought hot nurse was
actually quite in tune with the flavour - over hyped American sex symbol of the cold war?

[charter]

I was actually thinking his roleblocker sounded kind of like a prostitute, which you would see in commieland.

Regardless, flavor speculation is not why he's scum.

[Hoopla]

Wow, a lot of activity today. I have to say, on a cosmetic read of the thread, I believe Vaya a lot more than I believe Cathart's claim.

I'm not impressed with Vaya's self-vote and I know it's wifom again, but why on earth would scum give up that easily after losing a buddy on Day 1? I still support the plan on making a pact now - I can't see him as scum.

I'm fairly sure Cathart is at L-1, so I will do a better reread before I contemplate hammering.

[Hoopla]

Cyberbob, when would you consider lynching him? There is no advantage in keeping him alive. If he is town, his role will give us no more info if we let him live longer. If he is scum, like I said, he's probably a roleblocker. It's not like if he was an information role, where we should keep him alive another night. His role is 100% unconfirmable and gives town no information.

I don't see why this claim is believable to you and why you don't want to lynch him today.

I'm with charter. His role isn't confirmable, if we don't believe it, we should lynch him - as he does not provide any information. In fact, the roleblocking could work as a double-edged sword and prevent town powerroles finding something.

Doctors themself aren't that powerful as roles, they have a slim chance of stopping a kill. And we left him alive and he did stop a kill, we would probably assume it was no-kill gambit to solidify a fake-claim. I don't see any way out of this for Cathart.

Keeping him alive and waiting for scum to take him out (if we believed him) isn't a great option, as they have little to fear from him, and especially since they know so many people suspect him.

--

le Chat was promising a catch up post, so I'll let him do so before I hammer.

[mathcam]

Agreed. And shopping around for another lynch (unless it's Vaya) is just prone to outing a role we'd even less like to get rid of. I'm fine with offing cathart. And I'm a little surprised CyberBob isn't.

Cam

[SerialClergyman]

Not that we need more reasons, but I also don't know of any doctor-like role that mentions whether or not you can protect yourself.

Kublai - don't leave my awesome out-mod-guessing hanging with your poor role descriptions!

[SerialClergyman]

whoops, said the opposite of what I meant.

I don't know of any doctor-like roles which do NOT specifically mention whether you can protect yourself.

[le Chat]

Hmm.

I hate Vaya's attitude. Like someone said in another game I'm in somewhere once, scummyness is a sink or swim business, and when you stop defending yourself (swimming) you start to look scummy (sinking). I really hate how you are just kinda rolling over and accepting this wifom thing and acknowledging opinions that you are a good lynch target. If you're town then you know you're confirmed town to yourself and then advocating your own lynch is like advocating a lynch on a confirmed townie like if you were a cop and got an inno and then lynched him. =| see

If the rest of the town really thinks that lynching me is a good idea, I won't fight against it, especially because of my poor activity in this game thus far. I of course, am not in favor of my lynch though.

Its not that the logic behind my lynch is entirely bad, but I could very well see Sens-scum pushing for this lynch to buy scum an extra day.

And if I haven't said it before, I really do agree that if I'm going to be lynched for this, it should be done today.

But since everyone seems to want a claim out of me, I'm just a vanilla townie. You guys can go ahead and lynch me now, I think it might be a good idea to get me out of the way.

Meh, I kinda want to be lynched after all this discussion of my policy lynch, given that the reasoning behind it makes some sense, and after I've claimed.

your response to the wifom makes me think that its real. you seem to be playing along with it. which is totally different than what you said end of D1, when you lolled at it.

I'm a

Hot Nurse

. I can either protect or roleblock. Preemptive answer for the next question: I decided to play WIFOM game with Peabody, and I roleblocked Vaya on Night 1.

Do with this info what you want.

sounds interesting and could be a real role, though my opinion of power roles is based on the role we got before we re-rolled the game. which brings up the point that: this role that col cathart is claiming could be his real role or it could be a 'safeclaim' that he got by being the town hot nurse in the initial game and then being re-rolled scum.

EBWOP:

Cathart, do you know if you are able to protect yourself?

No, I don't know. There's nothing written about about it in my role PM.

@_@ you could check with the mod or something. this kinda seems like giving up too.

Well, I think everyone should weigh in (if they haven't already) and give their opinion on A) Cathart's scumminess and B) Cathart's claim.

A) Very scummy
B) Bogus

a) scummy
b) sounds real

which puts me in a bad spot like i described two quotes above. i think his claim is real. i think hes been scummy. direct conflict with each other. cat-ache.

Cyberbob, stop being dumb. By your logic, any Scum that claims something half-decent won't be lynched.
Col.C, stop being Scum. If you seriously didn't think RBs blocked kills, I don't think you would have blocked the person most likely to submit a kill.

Unvote, Vote: Col.Cathart

Thoughts of Vaya haven't changed.

this is good logic imo. /cosign

le Chat was promising a catch up post, so I'll let him do so before I hammer.

thank you. this happened on day 1 as well but i didnt get a chance to say anything on the v/la weekend that the day actually ended on.

[Hoopla]

I hate Vaya's attitude. Like someone said in another game I'm in somewhere once, scummyness is a sink or swim business, and when you stop defending yourself (swimming) you start to look scummy (sinking). I really hate how you are just kinda rolling over and accepting this wifom thing and acknowledging opinions that you are a good lynch target. If you're town then you know you're confirmed town to yourself and then advocating your own lynch is like advocating a lynch on a confirmed townie like if you were a cop and got an inno and then lynched him. =| see

Accepting your lynch and giving up defending tends to be a personality-tell, rather than alignment. Both mafia and town don't want to be lynched. Cathart made the point, if we're going to ignore the wifom and let Vaya live, he really needs to start pulling his weight and contribute as town, otherwise a policy-lynch starts to look more attractive.

--

As for the rest of your post, it feels quite wishy-washy. I'd rather you made definitive assessments on Vaya and Cathart.

Who is your prefered lynch out of Vaya and Cathart?
Would you hammer Cathart if I wasn't going to vote him?

[SerialClergyman]

To be honest, I've seen more town self-votes than scum self-votes. And this is one of the rare moments where I could see how they might find it justified - when a scum player has created a very difficult WIFOM situation. I could imagine Vaya as town being genuinely distressed that if it came down to a 3-man lylo with him he could well be lynched due to the outburst and thus in favour of his lynch now when it is less important. I don't agree with that position, but it's more justifiable than 'I give up, you guys are all against me, well I told you so, selfvote'.

le chat, any coment on the night choice of cathart?

I'm in favour of a hammer btw.

[le Chat]

As for the rest of your post, it feels quite wishy-washy. I'd rather you made definitive assessments on Vaya and Cathart.

Who is your prefered lynch out of Vaya and Cathart?
Would you hammer Cathart if I wasn't going to vote him?

i would like to see vaya kick his butt when he runs and start posting opinions and get back in the game. i would take the pact. i would also choose to lynch cathart over vaya.

if you told me right now you werent going to hammer him, i wouldnt hammer in your place. i fear his claim is for real and were getting rid of doctor-man. i dont mind more talking.

le chat, any coment on the night choice of cathart?

you mean that he says he chose to roleblock vaya instead of doc protecting someone? well the main problem is that he later said he didnt know roleblocks stopped kills. as a doctor-role youre doing a lot more by stopping a potential kill by roleblocking the killer or doctoring the target than you are doing by roleblocking a non-lethal mafia action, which is what he said his goal was, as he didnt know a roleblock would stop a kill. thats if there are 2 maf.

ugh. that is a dumb stance for him to take. doesnt make sense.

hoopla i dont know if i would hammer him or not. i fear losing a doc role and his claim sounds like it could be true. end of day 1 he was literally voting WITH peabody. that seems careless to do if you are maf partner with peabody, be the only two people voting a guy.

i wouldnt hammer if you didnt. i think we can still look at more people toDay.

[Col.Cathart]

sounds interesting and could be a real role, though my opinion of power roles is based on the role we got before we re-rolled the game. which brings up the point that: this role that col cathart is claiming could be his real role or it could be a 'safeclaim' that he got by being the town hot nurse in the initial game and then being re-rolled scum.

Impossible. I replaced Headsigh during re-confirmation, and I have no idea what role he had before.

Little clarification on roleblocking: I'm playing Werewolf on other site (GiantITP forum), where there is a Voider, who is a Werewolf equivalent of Roleblocker. He cannot stop kills with his action, only other power roles of the Wolves like investigation of the Devil (evil Seer/Cop), Framer etc. etc. Hence my little confusion.

Basically, when I saw I can roleblock, I was like 'ah. So scum have some power roles as well. Good to know.' I never thought I will stop a kill. I thought I'll hopefully stop mafia roleblock/frame attempt/whatever else.

Also: Yeah, I have confirmation from Kublai. In his games, when there's nothing written about doc protecting himself, he cannot. So no, I can't protect myself.

[le Chat]

huh. that is totally true, but then if you were scum then your scummate would have had a pr pre-game. so its not impossible, thats just a silly coincidence.

[SerialClergyman]

if you told me right now you werent going to hammer him, i wouldnt hammer in your place. i fear his claim is for real and were getting rid of doctor-man. i dont mind more talking.

hoopla i dont know if i would hammer him or not. i fear losing a doc role and his claim sounds like it could be true. end of day 1 he was literally voting WITH peabody. that seems careless to do if you are maf partner with peabody, be the only two people voting a guy.

i wouldnt hammer if you didnt. i think we can still look at more people toDay.

??

[SensFan]

le chat needs to grow a pair.