The Dark Goma Mafia: Massacre of the Cloth (Game Over)
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Benmage Survivor
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- Joined: December 20, 2008
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Kise Jack of All Trades
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- Posts: 8337
- Joined: May 26, 2009
If it were true, I wouldn't reveal it. Stop with the pseudo-scumhunting.vollkan wrote:
Let's assume this is true. Why the heck would you reveal it?Kise wrote:Hey, guys, I'm the Jester-Vigilante. Optimal play here is to lynch me D1 before I take my own life in the night and win before the rest of you. Trust me, I'm the kind of Jester that won't win when strung up, so vote away.
Hmm.. Looks like another one of your endgame-breadcrumbs.Kmd4390 wrote:Yeah, Kise, what Plum said. She's my jailbaitscum lover, so back off. XD
Heh, someone else noticed.... How long do you have to keep that avatar?Kmd4390 wrote:
Not playing to his town meta.VP Baltar wrote: Why is Sajin scum again?
That's the meta on him? I always define Sajin [when town] as someone who doesn't jump to bold conclusions. He's proven himself to be a risk-taker, via our last game together, but making relentless convictions? Not in my eyes. Maybe he was being lazy cop last game..Kmd4390 wrote:Sajin is usually more balls to the wall protown questioning and stuff. Here, the best he's done is call slip on a reaction to a slip. I'm just not seeing the Sajin I'm used to. There are still better lynches than him today though, so I'm not going to push this too far right now.
I'll forget the meta regards for the time being. Sajin's supposed "meta" is conflicting between myself and others, so it's obviously a matter of opinion and not actual meta.
How so (what makes you think this)?dramonic wrote:DeathNote isn't obvscum, he's obv3rdparty.
Let's be logical about it.. this is a large game. How would scum night talk without QT? PM each other? I can only imagine the size of mafia in a game this big, and PM'ing would be too hectic for them. Again, logically the mafia would be given a QT.Snow_Bunny wrote:I'm sorry, but I didn't post that. But I'm guessing you meant the accusation I did to Kise about he knowing there was a mafia QT, which, btw, everybody ignored... T_T
Nice catch with the contradiction. But, realistically, whoKublai Khan wrote:
Don't direct power roles?!? Isn't that exactly what she's been trying to do since she claimed?Snow_Bunny wrote:It's no good to direct the town power roles.
Investigate, but don't vig. Little too much of a survive-at-all-cost mentality for me. Not town.Snow_Bunny wrote:I'm just saying, if any investigative role wants to test out their alignment, then investigate me.wouldn'ttry to avoid being killed(?) At some point, you've got to sympathize with (real) millers. They don't choose their role. They know it's protocol to claim miller asap. They signed up for the game expecting to play, have fun, whatever, like everyone else.
I'm steering clear of this miller madness for the moment. She can be judged on playstyle for all I'm concerned. Like I said, if SB is a lying scumbag, she'll have to fear the Tracker from this point on.
I'd hit it.dramonic wrote:Knowing all this, I doubt any cop in their right mind would investigate SB tonight
If I were daycop, that is. Less chance of blockers/watchers/the gov'ment.
Grab me a Snickers bar while you're reaching that far out. Please? Thanks.SpyreX wrote:You could be a mafia PGO for all we know.
You thought I was DN's scumbuddy? XDVP Baltar wrote:Kise is scum bailing the wagon.
How so for both of these players?Battle Mage wrote:Also, meta-wise, VP Baltar is likely to be town.
Vaya is very scummy
Hypocritepopulartajo wrote:Also BM, strop triple posting.
As of page 17,IGMEO:
Sajin
VP Baltar (aggressive, merciless posting, but none of it reads as heartfelt)
Kublai Khan (too convicting, and at a very early time in the game)
Milk (I'm unfamiliar with you, but there's too little of input for me to think you're trying to help town)
cicero (similar to Milk, except you so far have only commented on one little miller issue, rather than the other vast topics of discussion)
Still reading. Hopefully night hits soon so you all can shut the hell up. Post 406 by Llama turned me on. I never make a town list, but I like what I'm seeing from him so far.
Post 421 by KMD is also good logic. If Snow Bunny & Snow White are the same player, then I can make a good assessment of her in regards to likely-alignment.
And for the questions I asked, I will be following up, but feel free to question back.They have escaped into the mansion where they thought it was safe.
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Battle Mage Jester
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It's not for you, it's for me. But seeing as you've read it- any comments?dramonic wrote:This game and dodgeball share too much of a player-list. It's hard not to cross-post @_@
@BM: That was not a pleasant read. Try to put more space, it just looks clogged to hell.
Ah sorry Ben. This is what i was referring to, but reading again, i think i was wrong. At the time, it sounded like you were implying that a mafia QT was surprising to you, and ofc, i know this shouldnt be the case.Benmage wrote:
I thought I did comment on that, wondering if there was an instance in which scum didnt have a QT.Snow_Bunny wrote: I'm sorry, but I didn't post that. But I'm guessing you meant the accusation I did to Kise about he knowing there was a mafia QT, which, btw, everybody ignored... T_T
@Milkshake - I disagree completely. The idea of cops investigating millers to confirm their sanity becoming mainstream, will almost certainly lead to stuff like Godfathers claiming Miller, and really screwing with things. It's a ridiculous suggestion, when some of the stuff that screws with cop investigations (Mafia Framers) would still be able to do so. And because cops of varying sanities arent all that common on MS, i dont think this is even an issue. My point was, it was interesting that you followed SB on this, despite the majority telling SB that her idea was foolish. Did you guys study at the same school of mafia?
BMShow2020 Stats - 31 completed games:
Survived to the end and won - 11
Nightkilled - 10
Survived to the end and lost - 6
Day-elimmed by majority - 4
winrate as scum: 78%
winrate as town: 55%-
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Battle Mage Jester
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- Joined: January 10, 2007
That kind of thing never really gets brought up, and yet here, you and Ben made it into a big issue. Ironically, your response was to wagon him to the grand total of...2 votes. You had already decided you were going to make a bit of a play with Vaya, even BEFORE he explained his vote was just an attempt to bandwagon, which is why the whole thing seems very forced.Kmd4390 wrote:BM, the question to Vaya was legit. Vaya said the Jordan vote was just for the sake of wagoning and it was on the second largest wagon. When Stark voted, I figured a second vote would be good to add some pressure. Vaya answered pretty well, but hasn't done much since.
Haha, funny boy! Lurkers was obviously a key reason we lost. Spam was not. How on earth do you intend to support your claim that Benmage is deliberately LURKING?KMD wrote: No, Yaw's game was pretty bad as far as walls/spam/lurkers. Whether it's why we (the scum) won or not, it was a pretty hot topic in the postgame. Benmage saw that and I believe he tried to replicate it. Thanks for reminding me. I'd forgoten that point against Ben.
Needless to say, i completely disagree. And, if i recall correctly, you didnt feel so strongly at the time, as you did a couple of pages ago, when the issue was raised again.KMD wrote: Of course I think Ben's reaction to my fakekill was scummy. Didn't I say that a few times?
Looked like you were trying to pressure him on distancing from a town-wagon. That stance is consistent with you still being on the wagon.KMD wrote: Gonna make me open another window now so I can see what 321 was...
How do you get me knowing DN to be town out of this? I was questioning Spy for turning around on his stance. I'm still going after DN at that point.Me where BM says I know DN to be town wrote:Spy, why so sure you were wrong about DeathNote?
Lol, on what grounds is Vollkan your biggest town read?KMD wrote:BM wrote:417 by KMD cleverly leaves the option of Vollkan being scum open.
What is clever about that? Of course it's possible for him to be scum. He happens to be one of my biggest town reads so far, but I could be wrong.Kmd in 417 wrote:DGB, Volkan isn't bussing me. I'm town.
You've still yet to provide a satisfactory explanation for your inconsistent stance on Sajin.
BMShow2020 Stats - 31 completed games:
Survived to the end and won - 11
Nightkilled - 10
Survived to the end and lost - 6
Day-elimmed by majority - 4
winrate as scum: 78%
winrate as town: 55%-
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curiouskarmadog This Space for Rant
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- Posts: 14229
- Joined: June 17, 2007
- Location: Roanoke, Va
Official Vote Count (Page 35, Day 1)
alvins95-5 (SocioPath, stark, populartajo, Kmd4390, dramonic)
Kmd4390 -5 (vollkan, SpyreX, VP Baltar, Benmage, Battle Mage)
Snow_Bunny -4 (tubby216, Kublai Khan, alvins95, Cass)
stark -3 (Sajin, KaleiÐoscøpe, Vaya)
tubby216 -2 (Plum, LlamaFluff)
DrippingGoofball -1 (Papa Zito)
Rosso Carne -1 (milkshake)
populartajo -1 (DrippingGoofball)
Not Voting:Rosso Carne, Snow_Bunny, Kise, dramonic
Note: Deadline will be at the earliest, 10/19 6:00AM EST, with 26 whole votes available, it takes 14 to lynch.
Last edited by curiouskarmadog on Wed Sep 30, 2009 5:34 am, edited 1 time in total.-
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vollkan The Interrogator
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[quote="Kmd"]
Scum:
Benmage
Maybe scum:
SpyreX
LlamaFluff
Vaya
Tubby
alvinz
Not sure:
Cass
SocioPath
DrippingGoofball
KaleiÐoscøpe
Rosso Carne
Maybe town:
Kublai Khan
Plum
Papa Zito
stark
populartajo
Kise
Battle Mage
Snow_Bunny
dramonic
vollkan
Town:
Sajin
VP Baltar
milkshake
Kmd4390 [/quote]
Why do you think benmage is scum?
[quote="Kmd"] I "piped up" when Spy went with what you said. I didn't understand how you "proved" anything and still don't. [/quote]
Why was DN scummy in your eyes?
[quote="Kmd"]
What is wrong with my play regarding Snow? She hasn't looked scummy so far. [/quote]
Sorry, I meant DN. I had them confused in my head.-
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populartajo Alpaca Caliente
- Alpaca Caliente
- Alpaca Caliente
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- Location: Arequipa, Peru Profession: Scumhunter
Without having reread what I missed, Im very very tempted to vote KMD. Basic things I dislike are his weird Benmage hate (I basically got the opposite conclusion of his reaction). His contrived "Sajin is not playing to his meta" case. And his push for slips even thought he thinks they are uncommon as hell.
Catchup post tonight.Call me Tajo.
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12894
Coming summer 2010: Tajo's Starcraft Mafia.
Tajo's MagictheGathering Mafia-
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dramonic Survivor
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CKD:I am still voting Alvinz
Since you guys keep asking and not following my ISO, I'll say it again: I said DN was obv3rdparty because if he was scum he'd have buddies/qt/a scum wincon, so he'd know he's scum
fixed...I'm a hoot
Stream: twitch.tv/dramonic
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Kmd4390 I lost a bet.
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Yeah, I'd breadcrumb a scum role. I usually don't even crumb town roles.Kise wrote:
Hmm.. Looks like another one of your endgame-breadcrumbs.Kmd4390 wrote:Yeah, Kise, what Plum said. She's my jailbaitscum lover, so back off. XD
I don't. This one isn't from a bet. Cobalt will be giving me one soon though. Well. Assuming the Blue Jays aren't too much for the red sox to handle. Which, lately, they are.Kise wrote:How long do you have to keep that avatar?
Oh, you're right. He doesn't jump to conclusions. What I meant is that he continues pounding out questions until he's got enough to make a decision. At first, I wasn't seeing that from him. He has started since, but then again, itKise wrote: That's the meta on him? I always define Sajin [when town] as someone who doesn't jump to bold conclusions. He's proven himself to be a risk-taker, via our last game together, but making relentless convictions? Not in my eyes. Maybe he was being lazy cop last game..wasAFTER I called him on it...
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BM,
I don't see your issue with the whole Vaya thing.
No, I'm not saying Ben is lurking. In that game, Yaw made a big deal about the amount/length of posts being too much which was the entire reason, according to Yaw, that people lurked. So what could someone take from the Mod's thoughts at endgame there? That spamming helps scum. What might someone do as scum right after a game's Mod says that? Spam. What has Ben done, or at least did right in the beginning of the game? Spam.
No, I definitely saw Ben's reaction as scummy. Read my posts right after it.
I was trying to understand what Spy was seeing that made him change his mind. The complete turn around made no sense to me.
Volkan is town on gut.
On Sajin, he didn't seem to be questioning like normal at first. Now, he is. My reason for suspecting him is no longer accurate, so to push a case on that reason alone would make no sense. Either he's town or he's very good at seeing what he's called on and fixing it.
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Volkan,
Ben is scum because of how he reacted to my fake kill and because he started this game by spamming (see above for why this matters) right after Yaw's game ended.
DN was scummy because I thought he slipped. I didn't see how he could have not known if he was town after the game had already started. He should have asked the Mod to clarify if he wasn't sure.
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Tajo, just because slips are rare doesn't mean they NEVER happen. I thought I actually witnessed one. Guess not.KMD is the coolest dude who ever lost a bet to me - vonflare-
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Benmage Survivor
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Kmd4390 I lost a bet.
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Benmage Survivor
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Again I think this is foolish logic. I opened this game obviously spamming in jest...i think i even have one post that just says "spam". I havent walled yet or massed quote. Thats not to say I wont, but with the excess of players in this game it'd be foolish to do such posts. As scum, you really think I'd be so obvious in my early game to spam the way I did? Seems so foolish, ill-conceived and illogical.Kmd4390 wrote:I didn't lurk except when I was V/LA. Same with Spy. DDD active lurked. Still, it was spam and walls that Yaw talked about. The only way you could use that would be to do it yourself, even if it happened to come from town there.
Regardless this is your opinion. Mine differs, no need to continue dragging out this tangent.-
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LlamaFluff Jack of All Trades
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Im flattered hun, but you just arent quite my type.Kise wrote:Post 406 by Llama turned me on.
Whats happening with this ben-kmd thing right now. I think its something like... an arguement about scum lurking and ben posting erraticly? Have a bit of a headache right now but I sill think im missing something.-
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SpyreX POWERFUL WIZARD
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Prod: Alvin
Catching up is hard too doo
@Kise:
Yea stretching to make a point: there are a myriad of things in this vanilless setup that could, in fact, help the scum by having one draw PR's. I picked the silliest one I could think of - although Watcher would be pretty boss.-
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vollkan The Interrogator
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KMD wrote: Ben is scum because of how he reacted to my fake kill and because he started this game by spamming (see above for why this matters) right after Yaw's game ended.
Logic fail right there.KMD wrote: No, I'm not saying Ben is lurking. In that game, Yaw made a big deal about the amount/length of posts being too much which was the entire reason, according to Yaw, that people lurked. So what could someone take from the Mod's thoughts at endgame there? That spamming helps scum. What might someone do as scum right after a game's Mod says that? Spam. What has Ben done, or at least did right in the beginning of the game? Spam.
Spamming helps scum. Yes.
Does that mean that scum will be more likely that town to spam, sufficiently more so to justify suspicion? No.
Please correct me if I am wrong on this in Ben's case, because I haven't meta'd him, but I am going to say that odds are he spams a lot just as a personal trait. Players post at different rates. Simply because spamming (and, at the other end of the scale, lurking) benefit scum doesn't mean they are scummy.
Okay, that much is fine. Now for stage 2 of my questioning:KMD wrote: DN was scummy because I thought he slipped. I didn't see how he could have not known if he was town after the game had already started. He should have asked the Mod to clarify if he wasn't sure.
Assume you are a player who has not read the page 1 opening post. You receive a Council PM. What would lead you to think that you were town?-
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Kmd4390 I lost a bet.
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Volkan, the point comes from a game Ben and I were just in where spam and walls hurt the town pretty badly and the Mod made it clear in postgame.
I don't see Ben spam normally.
To answer your last question, I'd check with the Mod if I didn't know my role. The Mod would answer and THAT would be what would lead me to think I was town.KMD is the coolest dude who ever lost a bet to me - vonflare-
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LlamaFluff Jack of All Trades
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@Tubby - Opinions on something apart from SB, please.
@Cass - You have said SB is newbie scum being controlled, a scum traitor and scum slipped. Which is most likely and why?-
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Benmage Survivor
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I can be an active poster and you know it. The D1 spam was obviously done comically. You not seeing this is bad for you.Kmd4390 wrote: I don't see Ben spam normally.
I tend to have a higher post rate.vollkan wrote: Please correct me if I am wrong on this in Ben's case, because I haven't meta'd him, but I am going to say that odds are he spams a lot just as a personal trait.-
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vollkan The Interrogator
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Did Ben spam in that game?Kmd wrote: Volkan, the point comes from a game Ben and I were just in where spam and walls hurt the town pretty badly and the Mod made it clear in postgame.
I don't see Ben spam normally.
Do you think it is meaningful that here he only spammed in the RVS?
What if you didn't check with the mod?Kmd wrote: To answer your last question, I'd check with the Mod if I didn't know my role. The Mod would answer and THAT would be what would lead me to think I was town.
Why do you think that is?Ben wrote: I tend to have a higher post rate.-
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Benmage Survivor
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Plum Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
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[quote="Kise"]Hmm.. Looks like another one of your endgame-breadcrumbs.[/quote] You must be unfamiliar with an ongoing joke (which involves a reference to a finished Lovers Open setup where Kmd and I were, in fact, Mafia Lovers).
Basically I have come to the conclusion that Kmd's behavior regarding the DeathNote "slip", especially the way he quickly jumps on when he sees it despite the fact that both vollkan and SpyreX mentioned that it was not a slip in context. DN's behavior otherwise is another matter, but all Kmd does is say
[quote="Kmd4390"]What?!? DeathNote slip!Unvote, Vote DeathNote[/quote]
Not noting vollkan SpyreX &c. I would be less irritated by this had he said something like "DeathNote's post looks like a slip. I saw that they both came to the conclusion that it was not a slip in context but looked back and thought that the correct interpretation is that it was really a slip". When two fairly intelligent players come to that conclusion it would at least behoove you to look back, see if you can see what prompted them to say that, and if necessary ask for elaboration. Kmd at first ignores it completely, as above. SpyreX made it clear in his unvote post that his reread at the prompting of vollkan came to the conclusion that the slip was not actually a slip and that that fact made him worry about the speed of the wagon:
[quote="SpyreX"]HAHAHA
Lets play a round of:I'm illiterate, whats your excuses?
Unvote
Ok, that looked bad, but contextually good lord it makes sense and I'm calling semi-shenanigans.
[quote="Kise"]You don't want to welcome an investigation? [/quote]
[quote="DeathNote"]That depends.... is council town? [/quote]
So, good lord, it makes sense.[/quote]
Kmd doesn't even seem to have read that when he asks:
[quote="Kmd4390"]Spy, why so sure you were wrong about DeathNote?[/quote]
The response:
[quote="SpyreX"]I'm not -sure- I'm wrong.
However,I am positive that the reasons for the lynch were not what I thoughtand thus the speed and style of the bandwagon bother me a LOT.[/quote]
Bolding is mine, but you get the picture. It's clear that Spy moved his vote because he thought that the reason for the wagon, the slip, was not in fact a real slip andfollowing that, given that fact the speedy wagon on DN because of the slip-that-was-not-a-slip was possibly fishy.
When called out on basically all of the above by vollkan (and voted by vollkan), Kmd responds:
[quote="Kmd4390"]Volkan, I just don't understand why Spy backed off so quickly. You gave an excuse for DeathNote and Spy just bought it without seeming to really think about much aside from the speed of the wagon. Not all speedwagons are on town, which Spy just saw in a game where we were scumbuddies.[/quote]
When it was abundantly clear had he chosen to pay even a MODICUM of attention to the case on DN and wagon HE WAS VOTING at the time with what presumably should have been EXTREMELY STRONG CONVICTIONS that SpyreX thought about THE ACTUAL CASE a heck of a lot more than about the speed of the wagon when he removed his vote from DN.
When SpyreX explains that DN's "slip" was not an actual slip in context (for a second time) what does Kmd do? Does he look back and either agree or disagree, explain why, and change or keep his vote in accordance to that? No. He ignores it (except to ask vollkan to explain why he's wrong about DN, when SpyreX has already done so at least twice). Then he posts this:
[quote="Kmd4390"]I wouldn't complain about any of:
Vaya
DeathNote
Cass
Snow_Bunny
Benmage
SocioPath
Sajin
alvins95
Kise
Rosso Carne
KaleiÐoscøpe
In no particular order. All are either
a)scummy
b)lurkers
c)claimed miller and everyone freaked out about "OMG DO WE POLICY LYNCH?!?"[/quote]
If he truly believed it was such a clear slip that all needed for explanation for his vote was basically "Oh look a scumslip By DN! Vote time" he should at the very least have DN right at the top of his list of players he'd like to see dead instead of sticking him in a list of more than a third of the players in the game with the added disclaimer that he'd be fine with the lynch of any and has no particular ranking of which he'd like dead more (which in and of itself is shady - 11/27 players and he's just about equally happy with the lynch of all of them?Ugh).
Not to mention the fact that SB is on that list because she "claimed miller and everyone freaked out about 'OMG DO WE POLICY LYNCH?!?'" when a post or two of his earlier he wrote:
[quote="Kmd4390"][quote="LlamaFluff"]
So then if a claimed miller looks scummy you lynch them, if not you treat them as town... I believe some really wierd things in this game (for instance I know a few people have seen me pull wagons off people who claimed VT), but this is not that far out there.[/quote]
^This. I tend to usually agree with Llama on theory, and this is one of those times. If Snow is scummy, we'll lynch her. If she's not, we won't. It's really that simple.[/quote]
He doesn't seem to think that SB has done much scummy, but the theory he presses here does not match up - AT ALL - with his willingness to see SB lynched simply for her Miller claim and the fact that some people flipped out because of it.
His Benmage vote after the Jordan, DN deaths and vague insinuation that he suspects Llama and SpyreX are respectively underwhelming and scummy (the last bit is slightly objective - he doesn't even give us an inkling of what makes him think that and a bit subjective - I don't recall either of them acting particularly scummy).
Posts 8 - 10 of vollkan-in-isolation reinforce the point further, with Kmd offering useless bits of stuff like "Volkan, it didn't hurt anything that I was wrong. We didn't lynch him" and "It's not important anymore though" in what looks like a very scummy attempt to blow off vollkan's legitimate points as irrelevant.
I still suspect Tubby and I hope to have the time to take another longer look at him tomorrow night. But Kmd? My vote has been earned, luv.
Unvote; Vote: Kmd-
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vollkan The Interrogator
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Kublai Khan Khan Man
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Dang it.. I was in the midst of writing a big post surrounding the activities leading up to ~Jordan' the Hugger's suicide-bomb and Plum went ahead and stole my thunder.
Actually, I was planning on focusing more on the people that took advantage of the bored, antsy suicide bomber and tried to direct him against really bad targets. SocioPath in particular was scummy as he pushed ~Jordan' to blow up Rosso Carne over a perceived jester claim.
Then again, Plum did point out several really good points about Kmd4390 that I didn't notice..
I'll wait to see Kmd4390's response before voting.Occasionally intellectually honest
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KaleiÐoscøpe =====[]
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dramonic Survivor
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Unvote
Vote: Kmd
Hmph, we can lynch the lurker some other time I spose...I'm a hoot
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