Border of Touhou and Mafia ~ Game Over!

Xylthixlm · Post Post #20 (isolation #0) » Sun Sep 27, 2009 2:04 pm

vote: zwet

diediediediediediediediediedie diediediediediediediediediedie diediediediediediediediediedie diediediediediediediediediedie diediediediediediediediediedie diediediediediediediediediedie diediediediediediediediediedie diediediediediediediediediedie diediediediediediediediediedie diediediediediediediediediedie

Xylthixlm · Post Post #29 (isolation #1) » Mon Sep 28, 2009 9:03 am

Tempted to vote DeathNote for claiming a non-town win condition, but ... zwet is still alive.

This is a dilemma.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #38 (isolation #2) » Mon Sep 28, 2009 4:21 pm

Ah, the grayed out stuff in the vote counts represents changes from the last count. Got it.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #42 (isolation #3) » Tue Sep 29, 2009 10:58 am

Fine. zwet will keep, I guess.

unvote
vote DeathNote

Xylthixlm · Post Post #44 (isolation #4) » Tue Sep 29, 2009 11:38 am

zwetschenwasser wrote:DeathNote pretends to be stupid as scum, confusing everybody while he evilly masterminds some sort of crazy scheme...

You're not voting DeathNote.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #46 (isolation #5) » Tue Sep 29, 2009 1:08 pm

zwetschenwasser wrote:I know. Your point?

You're not voting DeathNote.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #51 (isolation #6) » Tue Sep 29, 2009 3:55 pm

Riceballtail wrote:
zwetschenwasser wrote:The battery power is going down fast!
Once again, I blame Marisa.

Also, this DN wagon interests me.

You're not voting DeathNote.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #60 (isolation #7) » Tue Sep 29, 2009 6:11 pm

mipe wrote:
DeathNote wrote:Lynch me and your guaranteed to flip a townie..
..Because you really are mafia but have special ability that when you are lynched you are shown as townie?

You're not voting DeathNote.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #89 (isolation #8) » Wed Sep 30, 2009 8:04 am

Riceballtail wrote:
Sotty7 wrote:I don't really get the DN wagon.

Riceballtail Post 49 wrote:
zwetschenwasser wrote:The battery power is going down fast!
Once again, I blame Marisa.

Also, this DN wagon interests me.

unvote, Vote: Riceballtail

Interests you how...?
How we got somebody to L-1 while still on page 3? Doesn't feel a bit rushed to you?

Do you believe his claim?

Xylthixlm · Post Post #93 (isolation #9) » Wed Sep 30, 2009 8:21 am

Kmd4390 wrote:What exactly was his claim?

He wins
It doesn't matter if he's lynched
He will flip townie

If all these things are actually true, we should lynch him. If he was lying, we should lynch him. Therefore we should lynch him regardless.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #103 (isolation #10) » Wed Sep 30, 2009 11:53 am

You're

both

idiots.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #115 (isolation #11) » Sat Oct 03, 2009 4:59 pm

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

Joking around about game-related anything, in a game,

bad

. Don't do it.

Back to what I was doing before DeathNote went VI. (not Vi)

vote: zwet

Xylthixlm · Post Post #124 (isolation #12) » Sun Oct 04, 2009 5:24 am

mipe wrote:Let's see your hand DN.

Vote: Deathnote

But still.. I wonder, is there any ability that would force player X to use some phrase in every single post..?

Hmmmm.

Yeah, I'd be happy enough with a vig on mipe.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #128 (isolation #13) » Sun Oct 04, 2009 7:35 am

mipe wrote:I was just guessing. It personally struck out weird that DN said "I win" or something related to winning on pretty much every post, and he was vanilla.

... how did you know he was vanilla?

Xylthixlm · Post Post #132 (isolation #14) » Sun Oct 04, 2009 8:32 am

mipe wrote:
Xylthixlm wrote:
mipe wrote:I was just guessing. It personally struck out weird that DN said "I win" or something related to winning on pretty much every post, and he was vanilla.
... how did you know he was vanilla?

Vi wrote:
--- DeathNote ---
Suwako Moriya, Hat with a Townie Attached ~Vanilla Townie
Notice: "Vanilla Townie" part.

That hadn't been revealed yet when you guessed.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #133 (isolation #15) » Sun Oct 04, 2009 8:35 am

Elmo wrote:
Xylthixlm wrote:Yeah, I'd be happy enough with a vig on mipe.
As opposed to zwets?

I'd be happy enough with a vig on zwets too, though that one's mostly on policy rather than anything to do with this game.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #135 (isolation #16) » Sun Oct 04, 2009 8:45 am

zwetschenwasser wrote:I am not scum.

If your history is anything to go by, you're not even paying enough attention to the game to remember if you're scum or not.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #139 (isolation #17) » Sun Oct 04, 2009 10:09 am

zwetschenwasser wrote:
The Incredible Hulk wrote:
Hulk give OK, and show with vote.

vote: zwet
wtf? Why am I scum?

Why are you town?

Xylthixlm · Post Post #145 (isolation #18) » Sun Oct 04, 2009 12:27 pm

Zakeri wrote:I'm alright with a Vig on Mipe or Zwet. In fact, I'd be happy if both of them died today, so do whichever you want.

QFT

Xylthixlm · Post Post #150 (isolation #19) » Sun Oct 04, 2009 4:04 pm

SpyreX wrote:Further, policy lynches on zwet being zwet based on a hammer that people were ON also is woosh.

My policy lynch on zwet has nothing to do with the hammer.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #151 (isolation #20) » Sun Oct 04, 2009 4:09 pm

Kmd, your case is stupid. I think Zakeri is town.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #164 (isolation #21) » Sun Oct 04, 2009 8:12 pm

mipe wrote:
SpyreX wrote:Riddle me this. Why didn't my kill work?
So, who did you try to kill?

....

No WAY mipe really wasn't paying attention here. Go overacting.

unvote, vote: mipe

Xylthixlm · Post Post #173 (isolation #22) » Mon Oct 05, 2009 4:19 am

...

Everyone not voting mipe is FAIL.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #174 (isolation #23) » Mon Oct 05, 2009 4:21 am

And Kmd is double FAIL for voting Zakeri.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #178 (isolation #24) » Mon Oct 05, 2009 4:36 am

Kmd, what do you think of this?

mipe wrote:To say it bluntly, I'm a moon bunny and your mind will be shattered if you try to kill me.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #179 (isolation #25) » Mon Oct 05, 2009 4:41 am

Kmd4390 wrote:Post 170 looks genuine.

Are you scum?

Xylthixlm · Post Post #197 (isolation #26) » Mon Oct 05, 2009 9:03 am

Mufasa wrote:Yah I'm leaning towards mipe breadcrumbing his bulletproof as well, at this rate I'm not gonna put the L-1 on yet, don't want a pre-mature lynch.

^ scum

Xylthixlm · Post Post #206 (isolation #27) » Mon Oct 05, 2009 10:33 am

Mufasa wrote:XYL how am I scum for avoiding a quick lynch?

^ scum

Xylthixlm · Post Post #210 (isolation #28) » Mon Oct 05, 2009 1:41 pm

Mufasa then pesco sounds good atm, but I'll reevaluate pesco tomorrow.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #213 (isolation #29) » Mon Oct 05, 2009 2:27 pm

Mufasa wrote:Other than that XYL all your doing is throwing out accusations without any concrete reasonings. Oh wait you didn't even give reasons.

I'm following my gut. My gut usually works pretty well.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #214 (isolation #30) » Mon Oct 05, 2009 2:28 pm

Oh, and for the record, SpyreX is totally town.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #221 (isolation #31) » Mon Oct 05, 2009 3:24 pm

dramonic wrote:This game is going to be short if everyday ends in like 48 hours 0_o

I won't complain.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #226 (isolation #32) » Mon Oct 05, 2009 4:29 pm

dramonic wrote:why would you not complain? It cuts down hard on the scumhunting possibilities when everything ends in a quick-lynch <_<

I like short games.

dramonic wrote:I don't know, is he the type to write elaborate analysis?

Not usually.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #228 (isolation #33) » Mon Oct 05, 2009 5:14 pm

dramonic is neutral leaning town

Xylthixlm · Post Post #232 (isolation #34) » Mon Oct 05, 2009 5:42 pm

mipe wrote:I know that I'm Vanilla Townie. Only reason why I said that, is to get SpyreX shoot somebody else. I personally, even if I'm a normal vanilla player, I don't like to 'die'. Even if that means that I need to make a quick lie to survive.

If you actually are town and haven't learned that you

don't lie as town

yet, this is going to be your lesson.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #234 (isolation #35) » Mon Oct 05, 2009 6:13 pm

Deliberately stalling a game after someone has been caught in a lie rarely works very well. Unless you're really worried about deadlines, it's better to just lynch and go to night so you have more info to work with the next day.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #236 (isolation #36) » Mon Oct 05, 2009 6:21 pm

You know what they say: most games of mafia are won by the side that got fewer village idiots.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #252 (isolation #37) » Sat Oct 10, 2009 6:16 am

Aaaaargh. Lying townies make me feel like The Incredible Hulk ("HULK SMASH!"). I've seen mipe on IRC I'm surprised he hasn't learned not to lie yet.

If anyone

else

is a village idiot who is going to do something absolutely counterproductive like lie as town, please stand up and say "I am a village idiot" so I know who you are. Thanks.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #253 (isolation #38) » Sat Oct 10, 2009 6:30 am

Pesco47 wrote:
Vote Xyl

Lynch cheering and general lack of substance.

I make no apologies for lynching proven liars, even if they turn out to be town. I'd do it again if the same situation came up.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #262 (isolation #39) » Sat Oct 10, 2009 9:36 pm

I think zwet means Hulk is trying to be hard to read.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #267 (isolation #40) » Sun Oct 11, 2009 6:13 am

Kmd4390 wrote:Hulk hide behind policy lynch all game.

I've been doing pretty much the same thing, and I know I'm town. I have a few mild reads but nothing I'm confident about.

I

hate

village idiots; they don't just get lynched, it's also hard to separate town from scum on the wagons.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #269 (isolation #41) » Sun Oct 11, 2009 8:55 am

Mufasa wrote:
Vote: Vaya

Talk Please, Mod maybe a prod is appropriate?
This is just a vote to try to get vaya active.

Saying this defeats the purpose of the vote.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #275 (isolation #42) » Sun Oct 11, 2009 4:47 pm

I actually have absolutely no idea.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #276 (isolation #43) » Sun Oct 11, 2009 4:48 pm

I'm leaning mod error - it says 7 to lynch, so TIH should be L-5 and Vaya should be L-6.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #283 (isolation #44) » Mon Oct 12, 2009 4:41 am

Vaya's got at least the same chance of being scum as anyone else.

vote: Vaya

Zakeri, one question, which you may answer if you think it is beneficial. By "I was given the opportunity to give someone a double vote" do you mean this was not a normal part of your role?

Xylthixlm · Post Post #287 (isolation #45) » Mon Oct 12, 2009 5:20 am

dramonic wrote:Not at all. I said we need to do something about Vaya, I wasn't referring to lynching her <_<

Get her to post is more like it.

Your choices for getting her to post are either asking nicely, or threatening to lynch and carrying through if necessary. Pick one.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #290 (isolation #46) » Mon Oct 12, 2009 7:00 am

My first guess is that we have in inventor-type role running around giving one-shot abilities. If that's right it's important to remember that the person who gets the ability is

not

cleared.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #295 (isolation #47) » Mon Oct 12, 2009 9:49 am

Oh right, I forgot about Mufasa.

I could see a Mufasa/Zakeri/Pesco scumteam here, I think.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #297 (isolation #48) » Mon Oct 12, 2009 10:30 am

IIRC my "Zakeri is town" assessment was based on this:

Zakeri wrote:I'm alright with a Vig on Mipe or Zwet. In fact, I'd be happy if both of them died today, so do whichever you want.

Let's just say that's no longer convincing in light of Zakeri's claim to have randomly fired off a double vote.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #309 (isolation #49) » Tue Oct 13, 2009 9:18 am

SpyreX wrote:My understanding of the series of events (and I am a bit information-biased)

Zak GETS the ability to GIVE a DV from ??
Zak opts to based on moonbeams give it to Pesco.

Yea.

However, this implies:

Zak is NOT the inventor.
Zak randomly handed out a DV on not even a town read.

Which thus implies:

Zak be scum, yo

This is my reading. dramonic is thinking something else.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #311 (isolation #50) » Tue Oct 13, 2009 9:33 am

My rule of thumb: When you can't figure out why the heck someone did an obviously stupid night action, the correct answer is usually "because they're scum". I win a lot of IRC games by lynching the guy who claimed a braindead night action target.

On the other hand, if I unvoted a lurker every time someone did something scummy, I'd never get to actually lynch a lurker.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #316 (isolation #51) » Tue Oct 13, 2009 10:50 am

Not feeling the Sotty7 scumness.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #319 (isolation #52) » Tue Oct 13, 2009 11:57 am

zwetschenwasser wrote:Hulk is happy that the discussion is shifting away from him.

Who are your top 3 picks for scum?

Xylthixlm · Post Post #325 (isolation #53) » Wed Oct 14, 2009 6:42 am

Sotty7 wrote:
Xylthixlm Post 283 wrote:Vaya's got at least the same chance of being scum as anyone else.

vote: Vaya
Rolling the dice on day three no less? Really have no better ideas?

Lynching a lurker is always a good idea.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #326 (isolation #54) » Wed Oct 14, 2009 6:46 am

dramonic wrote:
SpyreX wrote:The problem is that, really, I'd kill almost any of you at this point.
True for the most part. Personally my gut says town bout you and Kmd though

My gut town picks would by SpyreX, dramonic, and Kmd at this point. The Kmd read is weak though, his playstyle tends to throw me for a loop quite frequently.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #328 (isolation #55) » Wed Oct 14, 2009 6:56 am

Pesco47 wrote:
Xylthixlm wrote:
Sotty7 wrote:
Xylthixlm Post 283 wrote:Vaya's got at least the same chance of being scum as anyone else.

vote: Vaya
Rolling the dice on day three no less? Really have no better ideas?
Lynching a lurker is always a good idea.
So you're happy to policy lynch the entire game and not scumhunt.

Only if people keep doing things worth policy lynching for. (Or not doing things.)

Xylthixlm · Post Post #332 (isolation #56) » Wed Oct 14, 2009 11:01 am

Sotty7 wrote:
Xylthixlm Post 325 wrote:
Sotty7 wrote:
Xylthixlm Post 283 wrote:Vaya's got at least the same chance of being scum as anyone else.

vote: Vaya
Rolling the dice on day three no less? Really have no better ideas?
Lynching a lurker is always a good idea.
Who do you think is scum?

Search and ye shall find:

Xylthixlm wrote:I could see a Mufasa/Zakeri/Pesco scumteam here, I think.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #335 (isolation #57) » Wed Oct 14, 2009 2:59 pm

dramonic wrote:So you think scum are Mufasa, Zakeri and Pesco yet you vote Vaya?

I'm compensating for cognitive bias. Also:

Xylthixlm wrote:If I unvoted a lurker every time someone did something scummy, I'd never get to actually lynch a lurker.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #337 (isolation #58) » Wed Oct 14, 2009 4:51 pm

Zakeri wrote:Why is lynching a lurker and viable alternative to lynching someone you think is scum?

Think about it. Will a super-lurker ever be one of the gut scummiest players?

Xylthixlm · Post Post #342 (isolation #59) » Thu Oct 15, 2009 5:51 am

Sotty7 wrote:I would also like to know why lurking is a higher priority to scummy players to you.

Who is more likely to be scum: A player who is lurking, or a player who isn't lurking?

Who is more likely to look scummy: A player who is lurking, or a player who isn't lurking?

What is the consequence of these two answers for the town?

How should the town mitigate against that consequence?

Xylthixlm · Post Post #344 (isolation #60) » Thu Oct 15, 2009 6:46 am

Sotty7 wrote:Why not replace?

What do you do about someone who posts just enough to not get replaced?

Xylthixlm · Post Post #359 (isolation #61) » Thu Oct 15, 2009 5:47 pm

zwetschenwasser wrote:
Sotty7 wrote:Replaced into a game where he was lynched day one. So Technically no... However, we are getting off topic here I think.

Zwet, who else is scum with Hulk?
dramonic and SpyreX

This I've got to hear. Why dramonic and SpyreX?

Xylthixlm · Post Post #363 (isolation #62) » Fri Oct 16, 2009 4:45 am

Elmo wrote:Xyl, how do you think it's best to read Hulk?

I'm not sure. zwet has a good point about masking. The

bold green text

isn't helping either.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #364 (isolation #63) » Fri Oct 16, 2009 4:47 am

zwetschenwasser wrote:because.

That is not an acceptable answer.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #368 (isolation #64) » Fri Oct 16, 2009 8:16 am

Post 198 by Zakeri

Mmh, not seeing the very townness here. Most of it is pushing policy lynch on zwet which is probably null tell. The first bit isn't though:

Zakeri wrote:I just want to ask Mipe why he said what many people have quoted. Why did he say Spyrex's mind was going to shatter if he was shot when he knew he was "Vanilla Townie"?

That is... I don't know how to describe it, maybe "weak" or "tenative". It certainly doesn't give me a strong town feeling. As this point mipe was caught in a lie; wanting to not believe mipe actually lied strikes me as likely cognitive dissonance caused by knowing that mipe is town.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #369 (isolation #65) » Fri Oct 16, 2009 8:23 am

The Incredible Hulk wrote:
Post 275, Xylthixlm play innocent on double vote. Hulk no like.

Now that's just stupid. Are you suggesting I knew that Pesco had a double vote?

Xylthixlm · Post Post #371 (isolation #66) » Fri Oct 16, 2009 8:24 am

List of what?

Xylthixlm · Post Post #376 (isolation #67) » Fri Oct 16, 2009 9:05 am

The Incredible Hulk wrote:
Xylthixlm wrote:
The Incredible Hulk wrote:
Post 275, Xylthixlm play innocent on double vote. Hulk no like.
Now that's just stupid. Are you suggesting I knew that Pesco had a double vote?

Hulk think Xylthixlm try find reason to avoid confirmed townie be in game.

Looks to Hulk that Xylthixlm pretend believe something else.

Why, Hulk wrong?

Let's see if I understand this. You think that the fact that I didn't immediately jump to the incorrect conclusion that Pesco was a double voter, makes me scummy?

Xylthixlm · Post Post #377 (isolation #68) » Fri Oct 16, 2009 9:07 am

The Incredible Hulk wrote:
Xylthixlm wrote:List of what?

List of policy lynches that Xylthixlm can choose from.

Hulk start for Xylthixlm.

(1) Lurker
(2) Lie
(3) zwet

What more?

Actually there's just one:

(1) Antitown play (including lurking, lying, being zwet, etc., etc.)

Xylthixlm · Post Post #379 (isolation #69) » Fri Oct 16, 2009 9:36 am

Pesco47 wrote:I'm quite happy with my vote on Xyl. I'd like to think he understood what I meant by cheering from the stadium and the lounge. Xyl has been pretty scummy in adamantly pushing for policy lynches only (it is worse in the current game state as it is not active scumhunting) and the defensiveness at being questioned. If you aren't scum, this is pretty anti-town play coming from a person of his level.

I see a "too defensive" fallacy in there, as well as a "burden of experience" fallacy. And why you are attacking me for "not active scumhunting" rather than one of the many people who has done less active scumhunting than I have?

Xylthixlm · Post Post #381 (isolation #70) » Fri Oct 16, 2009 9:59 am

Pesco47 wrote:Because I expect you to do better than play the same as zwet is doing.

So do you actually believe I wouldn't play this way as town, or are you just assuming that based on reputation?

Xylthixlm · Post Post #383 (isolation #71) » Fri Oct 16, 2009 10:26 am

Pesco47 wrote:All I know is that you're an established player and nobody policy vigs you, so you must have a standard of being competent. If you can't deliver the goods, there's no reason for me to think you are town given the facts.

For contrast with zwet, he's delivered what's expected of him so it's null read there.

Your double standard here has serious flaws.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #384 (isolation #72) » Fri Oct 16, 2009 10:30 am

Pesco, do me a favor: Filter to just my posts, scroll down to post 20 or so, and start reading. Then come back and explain why you think I'm not scumhunting.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #393 (isolation #73) » Sat Oct 17, 2009 7:07 am

Zakeri wrote:the point Hulk is trying to make is that you're ignoring an important factor in your reasoning to vote: "Pro-Scum" Play.

Once we reach the point where everyone is either playing pro-town or pretending to be playing pro-town, then I will vote based on scumhunting. Until then I'll scumhunt but keep my vote on the anti-town players.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #394 (isolation #74) » Sat Oct 17, 2009 7:08 am

Pesco47 wrote:
What's the difference between Xyl's play and mine this game?
Off the top of my head, you're scumhunting a lot more actively than Xyl is. Cheering from the stadium and cheering from the lounge, you figured that out on your own.

Do an iso read on both of us and answer that again.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #399 (isolation #75) » Sat Oct 17, 2009 1:33 pm

So, how long are we going to let tubby coast without posting?

Xylthixlm · Post Post #404 (isolation #76) » Sun Oct 18, 2009 5:11 am

Sotty7 wrote:
Zakeri Post 391 wrote:okay, so instead of summerizing what the case against me was, people threw suspicion on me for "misrepresenting" and telling me to go back and read. You guys are soooooo friendly!
Reading the game is awesome. Plus feigning ignorance is pretty scum IMO. As for the rest of your post 391, is there any reason you picked the people you did to ISO?

Somehow I missed that line when I read Zakeri's post.

Zakeri, what's your opinion on everyone you didn't ISO? Gimme a town/scum/neutral list.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #410 (isolation #77) » Mon Oct 19, 2009 5:08 am

Zakeri wrote:Why did you press for Deathnotes lynch?
Did you have a reason for agreeing with the Vig on Mipe?
Do you have a case on Mufasa? I noticed later you completely forgot about him.

The "I win" thing.
Claiming kill-immune usually means Godfather.
Gut.

Zakeri wrote:The pressure on Deathnote, on Mipe, on Me (i realize this is up for debate), and on Policy lynching in general leads me to believe that Xyl Seems to be just about happy on with lynching anyone who isn't scum.

Flip "scum" for "obviously town" and you'd be absolutely right. I am just about happy on with lynching anyone who isn't obviously town. The trick is gradually expanding the "obviously town" list to include everyone but the scum.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #412 (isolation #78) » Mon Oct 19, 2009 5:17 am

Zakeri wrote:He said himself that he knew the secret to town winning was ignoring the village idiots, yet he still solidly advocated lynching them.

No no no, you have that completely wrong. The secret to town winning is

not having any village idiots in the game

. A living village idiot is just as bad as a dead one, possibly worse.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #413 (isolation #79) » Mon Oct 19, 2009 5:21 am

Zakeri wrote:Your definition of "Obviously town" appears to be "not acting stupid." All the mafia has to do to win against a mindset like that is to not act stupid.

Not acting stupid is only

one

requirement to be obviously town. I'm actually pretty good at reading decent players most of the time, but I am totally unable to read village idiots, so my default stance is to lynch them.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #415 (isolation #80) » Mon Oct 19, 2009 5:33 am

Zakeri wrote:The point stands that your theory seems to be that we can't do any scumhunting until we kill all of the townies that don't post, or say "I win" or some such like thing.

I am confused by your definition of "scumhunting" here. I thought it meant "looking for scum", but you keep saying I'm not scumhunting, so it must mean something else.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #418 (isolation #81) » Mon Oct 19, 2009 6:01 am

The Incredible Hulk wrote:
Hulk want smash Spyrex head for Zakeri vote.

Before that vote Hulk think Spyrex town, now Hulk not so sure.

Maybe you should reconsider Zakeri instead.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #419 (isolation #82) » Mon Oct 19, 2009 6:05 am

Zakeri wrote:From this it's implied that you think Pesco and I are a scum team just from the fact that I was given the ability to give a doublevote.

No, it's from the fact that you claimed you had

no good reason for picking Pesco

. Either you are telling the truth, and therefore made no effort to help the town with your ability, or you are lying and you have a reason you're not telling us. Neither possibility makes you look good.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #422 (isolation #83) » Mon Oct 19, 2009 6:40 am

Zakeri wrote:
No, it's from the fact that you claimed you had no good reason for picking Pesco. Either you are telling the truth, and
therefore made no effort to help the town with your ability
, or you are lying and you have a reason you're not telling us. Neither possibility makes you look good.
Emphasis mine
So this is a policy lynch.

Am I voting you?

Xylthixlm · Post Post #423 (isolation #84) » Mon Oct 19, 2009 6:45 am

The Incredible Hulk wrote:
If Xylthixlm town, Xylthixlm very upset Spyrex buddy up to Xylthixlm.

Why the heck would I be upset? I've seen SpyreX do the exact same thing in previous games. It's not a scumtell.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #424 (isolation #85) » Mon Oct 19, 2009 6:48 am

I'm just... wow. There's really someone that thinks that a townie must be upset over getting "buddied up" to? You're crazy. Or scum pulling stuff out of your ass, but right now I'm going to go with crazy.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #426 (isolation #86) » Mon Oct 19, 2009 6:54 am

Speaking of which, exactly how long do we intend to let tubby go without contributing? I asked this before but nobody answered.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #437 (isolation #87) » Mon Oct 19, 2009 11:23 am

SpyreX wrote:Are we SURE we can't lynch Sotty? SURE?

We aren't lynching Sotty.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #444 (isolation #88) » Tue Oct 20, 2009 4:07 am

Pesco wrote:Guess you'd still rather lynch a lurker than obvscum because it's policy

In other words, you don't think we should lynch tubby unless he posts. And you don't see the glaring problem with this?

Elmo wrote:See, I distinctly remember you advocating in Mafia Discussion that we lynch people who deliberately make it hard for us to read them, right alongside lurker lynches, in fact using pretty much exactly the same reasoning - you'll never be able to read them, so lynch them. So why exactly are you pushing lurker lynches and liar lynches and zwets lynches, but not this particular policy lynch?

Hulk is still more readable than tubby.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #446 (isolation #89) » Tue Oct 20, 2009 7:50 am

Pesco47 wrote:I'd rather have him dealt with via other means than lynching in the current game state. What analytical value is town going to get out of lynching tubby?

Free advice: Play the day game as if there are no power roles.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #447 (isolation #90) » Tue Oct 20, 2009 7:51 am

Pesco47 wrote:the stubbornness about prioritizing policy lynches is anti-town.

So... the fact that I advocate lynching anti-town players is anti-town, and you want to lynch me for it? Isn't that a policy lynch by your own definition?

Xylthixlm · Post Post #449 (isolation #91) » Tue Oct 20, 2009 9:15 am

Pesco47 wrote:I've said why you're scummy and I'm voting you.

If, hypothetically, I have a consistent history of prioritizing policy lynches, would that still be scummy?

Xylthixlm · Post Post #450 (isolation #92) » Tue Oct 20, 2009 9:31 am

I believe Pesco47 has played with me before in UT mafia and Mind Screw 3, where I was scum both times. Interestingly, he seems to have forgotten that at the end of UT3 I pointed out that one of the clues that I was scum was that I

wasn't

pushing lurkers very hard that game, because one of my scumbuddies was lurking.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #451 (isolation #93) » Tue Oct 20, 2009 9:32 am

EBWOP: "at the end of Mind Screw 3"

Xylthixlm · Post Post #458 (isolation #94) » Tue Oct 20, 2009 1:57 pm

Frankly, there are far too many people in this game doing nothing or close to nothing. Hulk is at least *posting*. I'd rather bandwagon an actual lurker.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #465 (isolation #95) » Tue Oct 20, 2009 3:21 pm

SpyreX wrote:Why I get the rolleyes?

That was pretty much a joke, overall. I have pretty solid townvibes on Xyl and decent ones on you but I can't tell if its a function of you or a function of everyone else just not playing.

Right now Kmd is one of the townier players in the game but I reserve the right to change my mind if some of our lurkers start posting and are like OMG OBVTOWN! Not that I expect that to happen. Plum has an outside chance if I get a complete scum/town breakdown from her by the end of the game day.

In other words, this has started really bugging me:

Zakeri wrote:
Xylthixlm wrote:Zakeri, what's your opinion on everyone you didn't ISO? Gimme a town/scum/neutral list.
I dunno. I'd have to reread you guys first

I've had good results scumhunting based on complete scum/town lists, and Zakeri's nonchalant refusal seems off-kilter.

Zakeri, let's get that list. You don't need to reread, I just want to know what your current opinion on everyone is.

Everyone

.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #466 (isolation #96) » Tue Oct 20, 2009 3:22 pm

EBWOP: "In other news", not "In other words".

Xylthixlm · Post Post #482 (isolation #97) » Tue Oct 20, 2009 6:44 pm

Zakeri wrote:
Zakeri, let's get that list. You don't need to reread, I just want to know what your current opinion on everyone is. Everyone.
But I do need to reread everyone, or else my opinion will be less informed on some people than others. Besides, big picture posts like you're calling for always annoy me because people are generally more wrong than not due to not having the big picture unless they're scum.

I don't want the list because I think you're an awesome scumhunter and I'm going to take it as gospel... I want it because I want to know if

you

are scum, and if you are, I want to find your scumbuddies.

The remaining players, please.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #484 (isolation #98) » Tue Oct 20, 2009 6:45 pm

Xylthixlm wrote:
Zakeri wrote:
Zakeri, let's get that list. You don't need to reread, I just want to know what your current opinion on everyone is. Everyone.
But I do need to reread everyone, or else my opinion will be less informed on some people than others. Besides, big picture posts like you're calling for always annoy me because people are generally more wrong than not due to not having the big picture unless they're scum.
I don't want the list because I think you're an awesome scumhunter and I'm going to take it as gospel... I want it because I want to know if
you
are scum, and if you are, I want to find your scumbuddies.

The remaining players, please.

*smack self*

Of course you left off the dead players. Never mind, carry on.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #487 (isolation #99) » Tue Oct 20, 2009 6:53 pm

Zakeri wrote:Night one, I was given the ability to busdrive. Knowing I could only use this ability for that night, I wanted to make it a good one, since it could potentially kill a mafioso in my hands. I reread the Game during the night, and I picked KMD out as scum for this post:

Waitwaitwaitwaitwait. We had TWO different abilities given out night 1? Busdrive AND daykill?

Xylthixlm · Post Post #489 (isolation #100) » Tue Oct 20, 2009 7:10 pm

I like Plum 481. Reads are pretty much in line with mine. A few differences:

Sotty - Townish. Talking enough, not scummy. Gut says town.
dramonic - Townish. Talking enough, not scummy. Gut says town.
Zakeri - Neutralish. The bus-drive claim feels right.
Pesco - Scummish. Working on trying to untangle my OMGUS reaction from my gut read, but I think there's something there.

I think I have to resign myself that I won't get enough pressure on tubby to get any contribution from him today, so...

unvote, vote Mufasa

Xylthixlm · Post Post #490 (isolation #101) » Tue Oct 20, 2009 7:27 pm

Condensing and sorting Zakeri's list for reference

Zakeri wrote: 16. Zakeri - Hello~

8. Pepsico47 - stronger town read

5. Kmd4390 - Town read.

13. The Incredible Hulk - Leans town

11. Sotty7 - townie feel

9. Plum - slightly more town than Elmo.

3. Elmo - Mostly neutral

12. SpyreX - ignoring

14. tubby216 - Absolutely no posts.

17. zwetschenwasser - Definitely Anti-town.

7. Mufasa - could be scum

15. Xylthixlm - Mostly Scummy.

2. dramonic - Definately Scum

I don't see anything blatantly out of place... Kmd is maybe a couple slots too high compared to Pesco's other reads, and I think Mufasa is a couple too low (stretching to justify the vote?). The inconsistency between zwet, who gets "anti-town" for being unreadable, and tubby who gets no such note despite being even more unreadable, bothers me... could be explained by Zakeri expecting tubby to be replaced. Overall, not inconsistent with Zakeri being town. (Totally wrong town, but still town.)

Xylthixlm · Wed Oct 21, 2009 11:17 am

SpyreX wrote:I'm bothered by that more than a little.

That explains why KMD is too high... but yeah, shouldn't KMD be most town there? I don't even know why I missed that.

Xylthixlm · Wed Oct 21, 2009 11:47 am

When did barning become a scumtell?

Xylthixlm · Wed Oct 21, 2009 11:56 am

Well, it seems to be being used as the case against dramonic. On the one hand I can see the point about being hard to read; but on the other hand if you're actually confused and lost as town, barning someone you think is town until you get a better handle on things is probably your best play. I've done that myself a few times.

Xylthixlm · Wed Oct 21, 2009 11:58 am

Zakeri, what's your opinion on Plum?

Xylthixlm · Wed Oct 21, 2009 12:51 pm

(I haven't had time to reread lately so I may seem to be jumping around randomly as people quote stuff I find interesting...)

The Incredible Hulk wrote:Hulk especially think that Kmd, Spyrex, Xylthixlm, have one scum in it. [...] They THREE, not suspicious of each other.

Interesting that Kmd gets shoved in with me and SpyreX. I know I've said at least once that I don't have a town read on Kmd. And why isn't dramonic in this group?

Also, one scum out of three players = incredibly weak guess.

The Incredible Hulk wrote:Hulk town list: Hulk - Plum - Zakeri - Pesco
Hulk scum list: Spyrex - zwet - Xylthixlm

... and here, Kmd doesn't show up in the scum list, despite him supposedly being all buddy-buddy with me and SpyreX. Even more interestingly, Plum, who listed me and SpyreX as her two most-town players, goes into the

town

bucket. I might put this down to Hulk keying off of pushing the policy lynches... but he's been pushing a policy lynch himself all game, on zwet. By any theory Plum should at least be scummier than Kmd from Hulk's POV.

I'm having a very hard time seeing this list as being the result of honest scumhunting.

unvote, vote The Incredible Hulk

Xylthixlm · Post Post #527 (isolation #107) » Wed Oct 21, 2009 4:48 pm

The Incredible Hulk wrote:
SpyreX wrote:But I thought I was the scummiest?

Then zwet?

Then Xyl?

I'm not even mentioned there.

I feel so alone.

Xylthixlm quick Mufasa vote for barning Plum, then rush back vote main enemy The Incredible Hulk scummiest possible.

Make Spyrex look like choirboy.

Exactly when did you become my main enemy? And how am I rushing "back" to you when this is the first time I've voted you or even suggested you're scummy? And what the heck did my Mufasa vote have to do with barning?

Xylthixlm · Post Post #528 (isolation #108) » Wed Oct 21, 2009 4:49 pm

dramonic wrote:@_@

Zak and Hulk keep outscumming each other, it's seriously getting annoying.

We're lynching Hulk today.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #531 (isolation #109) » Thu Oct 22, 2009 7:52 am

Sotty7 wrote:
dramonic Post 522 wrote:I dont see how the fact Zak says KMD is town make her less likely to be scum. Scum KNOWS who is town, really.
Yeah but that's not exactly what I said was it? I think Zak's posting has improved a lot since he stepped into the spotlight and I am liking what I see.
Combine
that with the bus driver claim and I am feeling good about Zak.

Do you think scum would like clearing townies when they don't need to?

I mostly agree, but you are making the unfounded assumption that Kmd is a townie.

Sotty7 wrote:Xyl, the only experience I have playing with you is in Mafia 96 and that doesn't even really count because I died night zero and you replaced in. But in that game you weren't focusing so much on the lurkers like you are here, is there a reason why this is different? I will admit I haven't looked at your scum meta yet and I will get to that, but the lurker/policy/zwet pushes do feel a lot harder here.

I got off to a bit of a slow start that game because I replaced in (my second post was actually barning roflcopter with "Mindless bandwagon vote until I've formed an opinion of my own."). But I did press Mastin for lurking:

Xylthixlm in Mafia 96 wrote:
VP Baltar wrote:Yeah, he's been posting plenty since his last time here, so it is definitely intentional. We have plenty of time to deadline however, and I'm sure if he continues along this route he will have a massive prod coming his way.
Heck no. Lynch him. Intentional lurkers deserve to die.

And for lying:

Xylthixlm in Mafia 96 wrote:
Mastin wrote:Yea, yea, was V/LA; just now got back. It's going to take time to catch up.
I count 20 posts by Mastin in other threads in the 24 hours before this post.

Lynch all liars, please.

There were no serious lurkers in that game once we got rid of Mastin.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #533 (isolation #110) » Thu Oct 22, 2009 9:49 am

The Incredible Hulk wrote:
Xylthixlm wrote:(I haven't had time to reread lately so I may seem to be jumping around randomly as people quote stuff I find interesting...)

The Incredible Hulk wrote:Hulk especially think that Kmd, Spyrex, Xylthixlm, have one scum in it. [...] They THREE, not suspicious of each other.
Interesting that Kmd gets shoved in with me and SpyreX. I know I've said at least once that I don't have a town read on Kmd. And why isn't dramonic in this group?

Also, one scum out of three players = incredibly weak guess.

That not be true. Hulk think Spyrex scum too, not so sure Spyrex scum as Xylthilxm be scum. Xylthixlm try stop lying.

I think I'm being accused of lying here, but I can't tell what I'm supposedly lying about. Can someone translate please?

Xylthixlm · Post Post #534 (isolation #111) » Thu Oct 22, 2009 9:53 am

BTW...

Vi wrote:
Not Voting:

tubby216,
The Incredible Hulk

Hulk, shouldn't you be voting someone?

Xylthixlm · Thu Oct 22, 2009 12:48 pm

Plum wrote:
Mufasa wrote:I don't care who you are Hulk, but everyone should carry an opinion on everyone, and it seems you are masking a little bit too much.

unvote vote: Hulk
Pot, meet kettle.

Mufasa, can I have a player-by-player scum/Town/neutral analysis with brief explanation for your positions?

Seconded.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #542 (isolation #113) » Fri Oct 23, 2009 7:38 am

Er... so you think I'm town but you think I'm scum? Does that mean "town", "scum" or "neutral"? Same question about SpyreX.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #546 (isolation #114) » Fri Oct 23, 2009 8:08 am

Condensing and sorting...

Mufasa wrote: Dramonic- Town

KMD- leaning town.
Spyrex- leaning town
XYL- leaning town

Pesco47- neutral.
Plum- neutral.
Scotty-Neutral

Hulk- seems like scum
Elmo- leaning scum.

Zakeri- Scum....

Zwet- Policy lynch
Tubby- Policy Lynch

Mufasa, why do you think Zakeri is scummier than Pesco?

Xylthixlm · Post Post #548 (isolation #115) » Fri Oct 23, 2009 9:11 am

Mufasa wrote:Well they can't both be the same thing, and I found Zakeri distancing her/himself from Pesco more and more, Process of elimination.

... wait. Zakeri and Pesco aren't the same thing, but Zakeri is distancing from Pesco? "Distancing" is a buddy tell, it only works if you think they're both scum.

Based on this I'd say that Mufasa is scum with Pesco.

Xylthixlm · Fri Oct 23, 2009 11:56 am

Mufasa wrote:I don't find it as distancing as much as distanced views, opposites, opposite allignments

leaving the flawed logic aside for a second, what do you find opposite about their views?

Xylthixlm · Post Post #555 (isolation #117) » Fri Oct 23, 2009 5:54 pm

Darn, here I was thinking someone hammered and vi posted the death scene.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #563 (isolation #118) » Tue Oct 27, 2009 1:24 pm

I love it when the super ultra scummy people are actually scum.

Kmd, I need to do some reviewing, but I think that those two coming up scum means we lynch Pesco next.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #565 (isolation #119) » Tue Oct 27, 2009 1:34 pm

Kmd4390 wrote:Dramonic before Pesco. Dramonic before anyone. He's scum. Trust me.

That sounds dangerously like a soft claim. Are you claiming role info? (A "yes" or "no" will suffice here.)

Xylthixlm · Post Post #574 (isolation #120) » Tue Oct 27, 2009 2:19 pm

Dramonic, claim:
did you target anyone last night? If so, who?

Xylthixlm · Post Post #589 (isolation #121) » Tue Oct 27, 2009 5:39 pm

So... Kmd has good evidence that dramonic is scum. Zakeri has good evidence that Kmd is town. If we take the bet that the evidence is right, the play here is really easy: lynch dramonic; if he comes up scum all's good, if he comes up town we have two caught scum. If we don't trust the evidence, then we don't trust the evidence.

I think I need to do some rereading here. Something is nagging me about the lightning rod flip. Mufasa was a

scum

lightning rod... I would expect that to not affect the mafia kill.

dramonic, where have you seen Lightning Rod before?

Xylthixlm · Post Post #591 (isolation #122) » Tue Oct 27, 2009 6:36 pm

I really want to think dramonic is town, but his reaction to the whole mipe daykill mess is worrying me... it looks sort of like he knew that there was a false inventor, rather than any of the other possibilities that might have stopped the kill.

Kmd, why'd you target dramonic?

Xylthixlm · Post Post #593 (isolation #123) » Tue Oct 27, 2009 6:45 pm

Zakeri wrote:
Kmd, why'd you target dramonic?

Can't be right. You and I targeted Spy. No one else did.
Consequentially, this answers my question as well.

Why do you want to think Dramonic is town, Xyl?

Choose one:

He has obviously town opinions.
He did a good job of buddying up to me.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #594 (isolation #124) » Tue Oct 27, 2009 6:51 pm

Xylthixlm wrote:
The Incredible Hulk wrote:Hulk especially think that Kmd, Spyrex, Xylthixlm, have one scum in it. [...] They THREE, not suspicious of each other.
Interesting that Kmd gets shoved in with me and SpyreX. I know I've said at least once that I don't have a town read on Kmd. And why isn't dramonic in this group?

I have to go back to this post. Hulk saying that the three of me, SpyreX, and Kmd were not suspecting each other is really odd because I

did

suspect Kmd; but even worse, neither I nor SpyreX suspected dramonic and he didn't suspect either of us. If Hulk was looking for a group of people to call scummy, he should have included dramonic instead of/in addition to Kmd.

This does not look good for dramonic.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #596 (isolation #125) » Tue Oct 27, 2009 7:21 pm

Zakeri wrote:What exactly counts as "Town Opinion" Other than agreeing with you or Spyrex?

Hmmm.

Nope, I think you got it. Although really it's only agreeing with me.

Zakeri wrote:Why does buddying up with you not ring alarmbells? It's a very appealing thing to do when you're scum to buddy up with people who are town - If the townie dies, you look good being related to him. If you die, he looks bad being related to you.

Oh, I agree. But actual townies "buddy up" to me all the time - see SpyreX just in this game. I just need to be aware of my emotional reactions so I can separate them out from the actual scumminess.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #597 (isolation #126) » Tue Oct 27, 2009 7:23 pm

Also, I am being manipulated by Zakeri here. Bad Zakeri.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #602 (isolation #127) » Wed Oct 28, 2009 4:31 am

Zakeri wrote:
Also, I am being manipulated by Zakeri here. Bad Zakeri.
Care to explain your reasoning for this besides "Zak is scum and is asking you a lot of questions?"

I'm not assuming you're scum, but I can tell when I'm being manipulated and I don't like it.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #605 (isolation #128) » Wed Oct 28, 2009 4:43 am

Pesco47 wrote:Are you being manipulated by town or scum Zak then?

I don't know. It could be either. Town Zak would have sufficient reason to think dramonic is scum.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #606 (isolation #129) » Wed Oct 28, 2009 4:50 am

Kmd4390 wrote:So Dramonic can target someone and if they target him, they are redirected to someone else?
-How likely does it seem that this will even be useful?
-How does this sound like a town role?
-How did Spy die if Dramonic didn't kill him?
-Why would he target the towniest players?

-If I'm reading it right, it's more useful than it sounds. Also, giving town weak roles is a good trick to make the setup more interesting without increasing actual town power.
-I can see it as a town role. I can also see it as a scum fake claim. And it would have use as an actual scum role too.
-You could be lying, or there could be an invisible killer. Latter is unlikely.
-This doesn't make sense to me either. It almost sounds like he gave his real target list but lied about his ability.

Kmd4390 wrote:Zak, yes, the ability I used last night lists ALL players to target Spy. The names that came up were Dramonic's and my own.

Mmmmmh.

Kmd4390 wrote:Xyl, I didn't target Dramonic (though I almost did). I targeted Spy. It was partially a guess on scum's kill, but also something else that is directly related to my role (I'd rather not claim yet).

Fair enough.

On point in favor of the nexus claim being true (regardless of dramonic's alignment): Lightning Rod, an obscure role from the flash, was in the game. That makes having a second obscure role from the flash more likely.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #610 (isolation #130) » Wed Oct 28, 2009 5:26 am

dramonic wrote:scum nexus would be grossly overpowered Xyl.
I mean, you're the balance guy <<

Yeah, you'd have to nerf it by only making it work on people it targets, or something.

Wait...

Xylthixlm · Post Post #611 (isolation #131) » Wed Oct 28, 2009 5:28 am

Sotty7 wrote:My understanding of the lighting rod is that ALL night choices get redirected to that player but that doesn't seem to fit the night scene because we got two deaths. Wouldn't Mufasa have attracted both the kills?

A scum lightning rod that attracted the mafia kill would be really stupid.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #613 (isolation #132) » Wed Oct 28, 2009 5:31 am

dramonic wrote:The moment you target a cop you're almost investigation immune, the moment you target a vig you're bulletproof...

As scum it'd be way too swingy.

Nexus is way too swingy no matter what the alignment.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #615 (isolation #133) » Wed Oct 28, 2009 5:36 am

dramonic wrote:so is lightning rod <<

anyway what would be the use of a scum LR and a scum Nexus?

Given that we

did

have a scum Lightning Rod, let's not try to outguess Vi here, eh?

Xylthixlm · Post Post #621 (isolation #134) » Wed Oct 28, 2009 7:36 am

Zakeri wrote:The Lighting Rod targets the Nexus.

According to the MBF flash, Lightning Rod doesn't target; all the actions target the Lightning Rod. On the other hand, the Lightning Rod role in the flash is badly broken.

Also, second request for list from dramonic.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #626 (isolation #135) » Wed Oct 28, 2009 3:54 pm

Augh. I don't know what to think on the Kmd vs. dramonic thing, so right now I'm going to go with the person I'm pretty sure is scum.

vote Pesco47

(Take a look at where Pesco was on Mufasa's scumlist, relative to other players. Then take a look at everything Pesco has said about Mufasa. You'll find something interesting.)

Xylthixlm · Post Post #633 (isolation #136) » Thu Oct 29, 2009 9:52 am

You're doing it wrong

Xylthixlm · Thu Oct 29, 2009 11:03 am

Right now I don't see either Kmd or dramonic as scum. This is a problem, since their claims pretty blatantly conflict.

Xylthixlm · Thu Oct 29, 2009 11:04 am

Kmd4390 wrote:
If I have the ability to kill tonight, I'll shoot Zakeri

WTF??!

Why would you shoot Zakeri rather than, oh, dramonic?

Xylthixlm · Thu Oct 29, 2009 11:39 am

Kmd4390 wrote:
Xylthixlm wrote:
Kmd4390 wrote:
If I have the ability to kill tonight, I'll shoot Zakeri
WTF??!

Why would you shoot Zakeri rather than, oh, dramonic?
I assume Dramonic is being lynched today. And Zakeri needs to die. If he's town, I'm confirmed and the Pesco connection is gone. If he's scum, Pesco is very likely scum (and yes, my alignment is back up in the air).

The correct answer was "because I think he's scum". That answer... was not correct. Why does it matter if Zakeri dies and confirms you?

Xylthixlm · Thu Oct 29, 2009 11:41 am

Zakeri wrote:Well, I'm certain Dramonic is scum, and I have no more reason to delay ending the day, so
Vote: Dramonic
. Seriously, if you've been paying attention to this day and don't want to lynch Dramonic, you're either scum, or incredulously self-centered.

Appeal to emotion.

Xylthixlm · Thu Oct 29, 2009 12:44 pm

Kmd, I got that. But why did you say that stuff about Zakeri confirming you? Why is it relevant to your decision?

Xylthixlm · Post Post #647 (isolation #142) » Thu Oct 29, 2009 1:11 pm

Kmd4390 wrote:Confirming players is always a good thing.

I do not understand your thinking here. At all. Under the hypothetical case where Zakeri is town, I can understand why a scum would want someone who confirmed them to die and come up town, but I cannot see why a town would want that. It just paints a big "confirmed town" target on you for no benefit.

Kmd, are you scum?

Xylthixlm · Post Post #650 (isolation #143) » Thu Oct 29, 2009 1:22 pm

Kmd4390 wrote:
Xylthixlm wrote: I do not understand your thinking here. At all. Under the hypothetical case where Zakeri is town, I can understand why a scum would want someone who confirmed them to die and come up town, but I cannot see why a town would want that. It just paints a big "confirmed town" target on you for no benefit.
No benefit? Do you disagree that having confirmed players is a good thing?

I disagree that, in the case where you and Zakeri are both town, having Zakeri dead rather than some other random townie would be beneficial to you or to the town. You would not be a lynch candidate either way. Am I wrong?

Xylthixlm · Post Post #651 (isolation #144) » Thu Oct 29, 2009 1:38 pm

Kmd4390 wrote:Xyl, if I was scum, why would I claim info against Dramonic when I did?

Hmm. Good question. I assume you wouldn't just try to trade with a townie here.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #654 (isolation #145) » Thu Oct 29, 2009 2:03 pm

Kmd, one more question: Did you use your ability nights 1 and 2?

Xylthixlm · Post Post #657 (isolation #146) » Thu Oct 29, 2009 8:11 pm

Is this a race between dramonic and Kmd to see who can convince me they're scum first? Because it sure feels like it.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #660 (isolation #147) » Fri Oct 30, 2009 4:51 am

This game day started Tuesday. Elmo and zwet have each made one post so far in that time. Plum has made two.

Stop lurking and start contributing, guys. Town isn't going to win if you don't.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #662 (isolation #148) » Fri Oct 30, 2009 7:41 am

Pesco47 wrote:
What's your take on KMD v Dram?
With Dram's claim of Koishi, I don't doubt him because it fits the flavour.

What about his actual gameplay?

Xylthixlm · Post Post #672 (isolation #149) » Fri Oct 30, 2009 6:33 pm

zwetschenwasser wrote:
Xylthixlm wrote:
Kmd4390 wrote:Xyl, if I was scum, why would I claim info against Dramonic when I did?
Hmm. Good question. I assume you wouldn't just try to trade with a townie here.
WIFOM! Xyl Kmd scumteam...

Nobody here is stupid enough to not lynch Kmd if dramonic comes up town... I hope. Given that, it's not WIFOM.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #676 (isolation #150) » Sat Oct 31, 2009 7:46 am

zwetschenwasser wrote:
Xylthixlm wrote:
zwetschenwasser wrote:
Xylthixlm wrote:
Kmd4390 wrote:Xyl, if I was scum, why would I claim info against Dramonic when I did?
Hmm. Good question. I assume you wouldn't just try to trade with a townie here.
WIFOM! Xyl Kmd scumteam...
Nobody here is stupid enough to not lynch Kmd if dramonic comes up town... I hope. Given that, it's not WIFOM.
But it would help clear you.

I'm so obvtown I don't need to be cleared.

Xylthixlm · Sat Oct 31, 2009 10:07 pm

Pesco47 wrote:Same with any game of mafia, you only need the fundamental knowledge to play. Flavour gives a little more edge when deciding if a role is scummy or fakeclaimed. Familiarity with the background also means you can pick out which characters are lynch on sight.

My list
Tubby
Xyl
Sotty or Plum

The only one of those that actually has much likelihood of being scum is tubby.

Xylthixlm · Sat Oct 31, 2009 10:14 pm

dramonic wrote:Someone has to go and my read on Xyl is town. Let's see, where could I find someone who's contribution is really not that useful and close enough to prevent the obvtown lynch... Oh look, I know!

Vote: Hulk

^ this is why I'm not voting dramonic. If he's scum, why deflect the wagon from a townie (me) to a scumbuddy? I could sort of see dramonic as a 3rd party (SK), but that would mean the mafia killed one of their own...

Xylthixlm · Sat Oct 31, 2009 10:19 pm

dramonic wrote:Night 1, I targeted Xyl
Night 2, I targeted Kmd
Night 3, I targeted SpyreX

The only person in this list with a chance of being scum (from my POV) is Kmd.

I am going to laugh hysterically if it turns out that Kmd is scum and his kill was randomized to SpyreX.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #689 (isolation #154) » Sun Nov 01, 2009 5:08 am

Sotty7 wrote:
Xylthixlm Post 684 wrote:
dramonic wrote:Someone has to go and my read on Xyl is town. Let's see, where could I find someone who's contribution is really not that useful and close enough to prevent the obvtown lynch... Oh look, I know!

Vote: Hulk
^ this is why I'm not voting dramonic. If he's scum, why deflect the wagon from a townie (me) to a scumbuddy? I could sort of see dramonic as a 3rd party (SK), but that would mean the mafia killed one of their own...
What do you think about the 2 scum team theory?

Extremely unlikely due to the night kills.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #694 (isolation #155) » Wed Nov 04, 2009 3:43 pm

That was one of those times to trust role info over my gut, apparently.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #695 (isolation #156) » Wed Nov 04, 2009 3:54 pm

Mrrrrh.

vote: zwetschenwasser

.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #697 (isolation #157) » Wed Nov 04, 2009 9:01 pm

I did quick rereads of the living players, and most of them look vaguely but not strongly town. tubby216 and zwet are glaring exceptions.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #702 (isolation #158) » Thu Nov 05, 2009 2:57 pm

Kmd4390 wrote:
Vote Sotty

Interesting choice.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #704 (isolation #159) » Thu Nov 05, 2009 3:07 pm

I just did a reread on Sotty and I actually can't find anything inconsistent with her being scum. But I'd feel bad about lynching sotty with zwet and tubby still alive. Hmm...

Xylthixlm · Post Post #707 (isolation #160) » Thu Nov 05, 2009 4:00 pm

zwetschenwasser wrote:Why are you voting me again?

You've given me no reason not to.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #709 (isolation #161) » Thu Nov 05, 2009 5:08 pm

Plum, you miscapitalized Vi's name.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #713 (isolation #162) » Fri Nov 06, 2009 8:10 am

Sotty7 wrote:The only scum I didn't help lynch was Hulk

Out of two scum lynched.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #720 (isolation #163) » Sat Nov 07, 2009 5:28 am

Meh.

VI, great modding work so far; I love this game.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #722 (isolation #164) » Sat Nov 07, 2009 1:48 pm

zwetschenwasser wrote:Xyl, I congratulate you on your flawless logic.
Unvote; Vote: Kylthixlm

This made me laugh. ~Vi

Considering that the list of people I have no reason not to vote is down to two, yeah, I consider it a pretty good reason.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #723 (isolation #165) » Sat Nov 07, 2009 1:49 pm

If anyone else wants to fill me in on a reason zwet is town that I've missed, by all means go ahead.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #731 (isolation #166) » Sat Nov 07, 2009 5:18 pm

ITT Kmd thinks that I would bus when there's no guilty result on a scumbuddy but not when there is. Good job Kmd. (Whatever happened to my famous "no bussing" meta?)

Xylthixlm · Post Post #749 (isolation #167) » Mon Nov 09, 2009 6:07 pm

I'm not assuming Plum is town. I am assuming that nothing horribly game-breaking will happen from doing what she says (like, say, instantly killing everyone else in the game).

Xylthixlm · Post Post #753 (isolation #168) » Mon Nov 09, 2009 6:14 pm

Plum wrote:Last Night I received a Dayvig that I can use

a) Only today (well, it expires if I let it sit)
b) Only on anyone who has referred to our gracious Mod as VI during the game

My guess was exactly right except I thought it would be "today" instead of "during the game".

Kmd4390 wrote:Ok, that makes sense. I could see VI doing that.

Your outguess-the-mod-fu is weak if you did not see that coming.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #755 (isolation #169) » Mon Nov 09, 2009 6:24 pm

Plum: use your judgment, although I personally would go for Zakeri over Elmo.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #767 (isolation #170) » Thu Nov 12, 2009 4:48 am

After Zakeri is dead, if the game isn't over, we can lynch zwet.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #769 (isolation #171) » Thu Nov 12, 2009 9:12 am

If true that's very interesting because it implies we still have two inventors alive.

Xylthixlm · Thu Nov 12, 2009 11:44 am

Anyone want to claim to be Zakeri's secret admirer?

Xylthixlm · Post Post #785 (isolation #173) » Fri Nov 13, 2009 8:30 am

Plum, did you shoot Sotty or Elmo?

Xylthixlm · Post Post #787 (isolation #174) » Fri Nov 13, 2009 8:32 am

Without asking for a claim? Because, you know, it would have been nice to get a claim from the

tracker

.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #789 (isolation #175) » Fri Nov 13, 2009 8:41 am

The point of letting someone claim is so that the town gets any info they have, rather than losing it forever. You don't need to evaluate the claim and possibly pick another target. I'm actually a little annoyed that you didn't just shoot Zakeri.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #790 (isolation #176) » Fri Nov 13, 2009 8:41 am

Speaking of which,

why

did you not shoot Zakeri?

Xylthixlm · Post Post #792 (isolation #177) » Fri Nov 13, 2009 9:00 am

Fair enough.

Still, you

really

should ask for a claim before daykilling, even if you're 100% sure who you want to kill (assuming you're already revealed as a daykiller, anyways). It seemed like you understood that with Zakeri, so I'm having trouble with why you went and shot without a claim for Sotty.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #793 (isolation #178) » Fri Nov 13, 2009 9:04 am

Worse, you hadn't even mentioned Sotty as someone you were considering killing, so Sotty didn't have a chance to say "I have info I'd like to reveal before you kill me". I just looked and you had only mentioned Zakeri and Elmo.

That was horrible, horrible play. That's worse than Zakeri firing off a motivation randomly.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #796 (isolation #179) » Fri Nov 13, 2009 6:27 pm

unvote, vote: plum

Xylthixlm · Post Post #798 (isolation #180) » Fri Nov 13, 2009 6:41 pm

Xylthixlm · Sat Nov 14, 2009 10:22 pm

Plum wrote:Oh G-d, please don't tell me this is another game where I'll have pegged someone as such obvscum it makes me sick but he slips through my fingers.

So... why didn't you kill tubby? Hmm?

Xylthixlm · Post Post #806 (isolation #182) » Sun Nov 15, 2009 8:30 am

Zakeri wrote:Xyl, What do you think about Tubby?

I would have been happy to see him daykilled. There's no reason to think he's town. zwet falls in the same category.

Zakeri wrote:What do you think other people would likely say about Tubby's actions?

I don't speak for other people.

Zakeri wrote:Of the two differing opinions, do you feel that what you think or what others would think is less derived from Bias?

If someone else disagrees with me, I'm right, obviously.

Hmm... actually. If we're down to one scum (we should be), we can afford to lynch tubby and zwet in the next two days... they shouldn't be left for lylo. Then if neither of them is scum, it goes down to a 3-person endgame with players who aren't tubby or zwet, which is winnable. Not a sure thing, but winnable.

BTW: zwet is totally

not

cleared. I pondered this a bit and zwet's buddies bussing him heavily is a move I've seen before. Don't assume he's town just because of how Hulk attacked him.

Actually...

unvote, vote zwetschenwasser

Xylthixlm · Sun Nov 15, 2009 10:40 am

zwet, who do you want to lynch?

Xylthixlm · Post Post #811 (isolation #184) » Sun Nov 15, 2009 4:32 pm

Zakeri wrote:Well, at least I can confirm that I'm working with somebody who doesn't understand the first concept of critical thinking.

Apparently you haven't played with me before.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #812 (isolation #185) » Sun Nov 15, 2009 4:36 pm

Zakeri: Do me a favor, do an iso read on zwet and tell me what you see.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #816 (isolation #186) » Mon Nov 16, 2009 6:07 am

Kmd, why is zwet a bad choice? Is there anything beyond the interaction with Hulk? I did some deep thinking there and my conclusion is that it makes zwet

more

likely to be scum.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #818 (isolation #187) » Mon Nov 16, 2009 9:11 am

Kmd4390 wrote:I don't think Hulk was bussing. I think he was latching on to an easy townie.

I've seen zwet get bussed hard out of the gate before (e.g. Lynch All Lurkers mafia). It's a pretty sound strategy for him - he's at risk of a policy lynch anyways, so if he does get lynch it gives his buddies town credit, and if he doesn't get lynched the fact that he was attacked hard by scum will prevent a lynch on him later in the game.

Really, take a look at the Hulk/zwet interaction again, and ask yourself:

what would be the downside of this strategy for scum?

I can't really find one. It seems bizarre, but with zwet, heavily bussing him as a policy lynch is good scum strategy.

Xylthixlm · Mon Nov 16, 2009 11:55 am

zwetschenwasser wrote:Why would I be afraid of a policy lynch?

I didn't say "afraid of", I said "at risk of". But either way, I'm pretty sure you can answer this question yourself.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #825 (isolation #189) » Mon Nov 16, 2009 5:34 pm

tubby216 wrote:so just hammer away please

You only have to ask.

unvote, vote tubby216

Xylthixlm · Post Post #829 (isolation #190) » Mon Nov 16, 2009 6:11 pm

Plum wrote:SWEET.

XYL - TOLDJA SO.

I actually wouldn't have gotten at all upset if you had suddenly dayvigged either tubby or zwet.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #833 (isolation #191) » Mon Nov 16, 2009 6:12 pm

SpyreX wrote:Hoo nanny.

Not my best game for finding scum but I did a banner job finding towns.

I had Kmd town at the end and that was about it.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #834 (isolation #192) » Mon Nov 16, 2009 6:16 pm

Honestly, not one of my better games.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #848 (isolation #193) » Mon Nov 16, 2009 6:50 pm

All those inventions and nobody gave me anything. I feel unloved.

Ruthless policy lynching FTW, by the way.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #857 (isolation #194) » Tue Nov 17, 2009 6:50 am

Sotty7 wrote:Can't really fault Plum for her vig

Yes I can.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #862 (isolation #195) » Tue Nov 17, 2009 8:39 am

dramonic wrote:Xyl was completely berserk

Sig'd.

Xylthixlm · Tue Nov 17, 2009 12:15 pm

Vi wrote:
Incognito wrote:Just wanted to thank Vi for not flaking on this game -- those role actions and resolutions looked somewhat tricky to handle.
Thank you. I'm sorry I kind of dumped reviewer duties onto you.

(Future reference: If I ask you to review a setup, you WILL get more than you expected... and more than I expected in all likelihood. Refuse accordingly.)

If only you'd learned that lesson

before

I asked you to review my setup.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #872 (isolation #197) » Tue Nov 17, 2009 1:55 pm

Plum wrote:In other news, once I decide someone's such obvious scum that I'll have to throttle you through the internet if you're not, that player
is
scum.

Yes. This, exactly. Note that such a player coming up town

does not change the fact that they were scum

.

If you maintain this attitude you, too, can become a berserk policy lyncher.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #874 (isolation #198) » Tue Nov 17, 2009 2:01 pm

Vi's wiki page wrote:As a general rule, if you get lynched and I was on your wagon, you deserved it.

As a general rule, if you get lynched, I was on your wagon.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #876 (isolation #199) » Tue Nov 17, 2009 2:19 pm

Plum: What I

really

meant is that when you're dealing with uncertainty sometimes you make the right decision at the time and still get a bad result.