Mini 836: Commie Mafia (Game Over)

[SerialClergyman]

I don't have the game link at hand but my girlfriend had a scumpartner who wasn't a crafty player yet self lynched day two saying something like my scumpartner is great, I wish him all the best. Since my girlfriend is a she, the town considered her confirmed town and she rode it to victory. It doesn't take a particularly sophisticated player to thrownup a wifom game.

[SensFan]

I don't have the game link at hand but my girlfriend had a scumpartner who wasn't a crafty player yet self lynched day two saying something like my scumpartner is great, I wish him all the best. Since my girlfriend is a she, the town considered her confirmed town and she rode it to victory. It doesn't take a particularly sophisticated player to thrownup a wifom game.

I don't understand this type of thing, to be honest.

To everyone against lynching Vaya today: Do you think it is a good idea that we don't lynch Vaya at some point? I mean, as much as it really sucks for all involved, there's no way in Hell we can let her win as Scum at this point.
And if we're going to policy lynch her at some point, it needs to be asap.

[Cyberbob]

I disagree.
Vaya's lynch will basically be one of policy. I don't want to policy lynch someone in LyLo.

I'm not seeing any mention of LyLo in my post? All I said was "not today".

[Hoopla]

Good post Sens, but I agree with Vaya. I don't get how his lynch is going to be informative at all. On the off-chance he's scum and we discover Peabody was more cunning than we thought, I doubt that will improve our reads off Peabody's play. We can afford a policy-lynch today. CoCo and Vaya are good choices and probably shouldn't be left alive until lylo.

Reasons for CoCo: Scummy play from the CoCo --> Peabody angle, and otherwise generally difficult to read. Distorts arguments into semantics debates and generally is OMGUSsy.

Reasons for Vaya: Peabody's WIFOM and generally lurky and inactive.


Both are good choices, but I'd really prefer CoCo.

[SensFan]

I disagree.
Vaya's lynch will basically be one of policy. I don't want to policy lynch someone in LyLo.

I'm not seeing any mention of LyLo in my post? All I said was "not today".

Later lynches are better for Town than earlier lynches. Why would we use a later lynch when we agree it will have to happen at some point?

Hoopla, the reason I think Vaya is the play is that, in theory, CoCo might do something that causes us to no longer want him lynched. Maybe he'll start playing fantastically, for instance. On the other hand, even if Jeep replaced Vaya right now, we would still need to lynch him at some point.

[Kublai Khan]

Official Vote Count

Players needed to lynch: 6

CoCo

- 1 - Col.Cathart - (L-5)

Col.Cathart

- 2 - charter, Cyberbob - (L-4)

SensFan

- 1 - mathcam - (L-5)

Vaya

- 1 - SensFan - (L-5)

Players not voting: CoCo, Hoopla, le Chat, SerialClergyman, Vaya

EDIT: Fixed to include Cyberbob's vote in post 723. (Damn those end of line votes)

[CoCo]

Am I voting for Charter?

unvote

I think Sens is Peabody's scumbuddy!

I won't rule out Charter, ever. Yet the fact Sens, after much stalling brings the WIFOM to a point is suspicious.

You can think what you want about me... but please take a look at Peabodyscum and Sens' use of it.

[mathcam]

So you think Peabody is crafty enough to make Vaya not obvscum after his claim, and yet are assuming his buddy(ies) are in the people he didn't defend or attack much?

I think this is fairly believable "smart n00b" behavior. Play quietly and don't make any splashes while you can, and if you're about to get lynched, why not try to stir up a mess before you go?

there's no way in Hell we can let her win as Scum at this point.

There's only winning and losing. I don't see how there's any difference (other than making for a good story afterwards) between letting Vaya win as scum and having someone else win as scum.

And while I the "we're going to lynch him eventually anyway" argument has some meric, the policy lynch argument is silly --

this would be the craziest policy lynch of all time.

The policy being advocated is letting a dying scum pick the lynch for the next day. Why on earth would we want to give scum that power?

Cam

[le Chat]

hi everyone. im going to be v/la this weekend, and i will be back sunday night with a post!

[Cyberbob]

The policy being advocated is letting a dying scum pick the lynch for the next day. Why on earth would we want to give scum that power?

This is more or less why I don't want him to be lynched today. We have a far better policy lynch in the form of CoCo and a very decently scummy (IMO) lynch in the form of Cathart to choose from - I'm just not feeling this sudden thirst for Vaya's blood today.

[mathcam]

And I also made another read on Peabody. Yeah, it's true, he has some questionable moves out there (hypocrisy when he questioned CB's word using, and I agree, that the 'Random Vote case' is not looking so null-tell as I initially thought), but in my opinion his case on CoCo is very good, and full of good points. He also asks some questions here and there. I think he is doing more for the town, than for example Talitha, Vaya, CoCo or Charter.

This is (I think) the part of Cathart's post 485 which charter thinks is the scummiest. I just wanted to throw my two cents in that this is roughly were I stood at this point yesterday. I originally thought the random voting thing was a little silly, began to realize it was more than that (by how he defended it), and thought that the whole "feeling" thing was hypocritical but not necessarily scummy.

This is more or less why I don't want him to be lynched today. We have a far better policy lynch in the form of CoCo and a very decently scummy (IMO) lynch in the form of Cathart to choose from - I'm just not feeling this sudden thirst for Vaya's blood today.

Well, but just because one argument for lynching someone is crap doesn't mean we shouldn't lynch them. Right or wrong,

if

we're definitely going to lynch Vaya if it comes down to LYLO, Sens is right that it's better to do it sooner rather than later, even if it means Peabody's ploy worked. I'm not sure if that "if" is true, though (see previous posts), so this doesn't mean I'm advocating a Vaya lynch.

Cam

[SensFan]

there's no way in Hell we can let her win as Scum at this point.

There's only winning and losing. I don't see how there's any difference (other than making for a good story afterwards) between letting Vaya win as scum and having someone else win as scum.

And while I the "we're going to lynch him eventually anyway" argument has some meric, the policy lynch argument is silly --

this would be the craziest policy lynch of all time.

The policy being advocated is letting a dying scum pick the lynch for the next day. Why on earth would we want to give scum that power?

Cam

Its just too obvious. Especially with people saying they think this might be a 2-scum set-up, I just think that a single lynch (especially with the fact we're 1/1 on scum lynches thus far, and can afford to use one up) is worth getting rid of all of this WIFOM.

The way I see it:
*If he was telling the truth, its a massive bonus if we lynch him. Possibly a game win.
*If he was lying, its a very small loss.

Isn't it worth those odds?

[mathcam]

IIRC, I was pretty thoroughly dismissed when I suggested 2 scum was a reasonable hypothesis. In any case, the odds you suggest are the same for any player in the game...major victory if they're scum, minor loss if they're not. I admit it's not quite the same, but it's not far off either.

Basically, my feelings about possible lynches right now are:

1) SensFan: Highest on my list just because of neutrality between he and Peabody in both direction (though SensFan's post 53 in an iso-SensFan jumps out), at least until it was relatively clear Peabody was the pick for the day.

2) Cathart: He's not particularly scummy. Mostly he's just been caught up in defending himself in charter. But in addition to not appearing very scummy, he just hasn't appeared pro-town to me in a single post.

3) CoCo: My gut says there's enough genuine distancing between him and Peabody on day 1 that they're not likely scum together, but my brain really wonders about that hammer quote we've been talking about today.

4) Vaya: Definitely wouldn't oppose the lynch if others were interested. Sens has some valid points here, but I don't like the idea of playing right into Peabody's hands, especially since I believe my argument that he was just trying to mess with us.

In short, I could be persuaded to any of these four, with a current preference for Sens. We need more participation...if nothing else, post your top 3.

Cam

[charter]

Cathart
big gap
SC
Vaya

I really don't want to lynch anyone but Cathart. Not even CoCo at this point, since he seems to have stopped posting, which resolves the issue I had with him (his posts).

I see no reason to think there are just two scum, I'd rather keep assuming three and err on the side of caution. I'm not looking to debate number of scum though, it's a pointless debate.

[Cyberbob]

Right now my top 3 are:

1) Cathart
2) CoCo
Distant 3) SensFan

I would be happy with either Cathart or CoCo; I would only vote for SensFan if it became apparent that neither of the other two were going to be lynched. But yeah - we really need to get something happening in the way of a wagon. If nothing else people might be jolted out of this strange (and terribly annoying) lull.

[charter]

The problem is that most of the people aren't voting. If everyone were to vote, I'm pretty sure there would be a wagon or two.

CoCo, Cyberbob, Hoopla, le Chat, SerialClergyman, Vaya
You all should vote someone.

[Cyberbob]

I am voting though, I voted for Cathart in Post 723.

Mod: can you fix that please?

Fixed.

[charter]

My bad, missed that.

CoCo, Hoopla, le Chat, SerialClergyman, Vaya all need to vote.

[Hoopla]

there's no way in Hell we can let her win as Scum at this point.

There's only winning and losing. I don't see how there's any difference (other than making for a good story afterwards) between letting Vaya win as scum and having someone else win as scum.

And while I the "we're going to lynch him eventually anyway" argument has some meric, the policy lynch argument is silly --

this would be the craziest policy lynch of all time.

The policy being advocated is letting a dying scum pick the lynch for the next day. Why on earth would we want to give scum that power?

Cam

This reminds me of a scenario in Mafia 88, where (town) Ectomancer proposed a strategy to counter a miller claim on D1 (here and here). In this case, the claim came at a time where it didn't make sense for scum, and was from a newish player. It was quite likely his claim was true, and Ecto's plan was to either lynch him now, or make a pact to not lynch him ever. This meant it was the mafia's problem to deal with.

It was mostly criticised and shut down - but it seems like it could have been a worthwhile investment. If the town only considered him to be a 5-10% chance of being scum, why not take the punt to save a lynch, and force scum's hand? It probably wasn't worthwhile in the long run for a game that size, but in a smaller game, the lynches have far more importance.

If the majority of people here strongly think Vaya is town, why not take a gamble on his alignment now? We could save a lynch and force scum to NK the wifom if we vowed to ignore it.

[Hoopla]

Vote: CoCo

[SerialClergyman]

I've always liked the pact idea. Sorry for my big drop in posting, another game is at a crucial point and I'm still on my phone.

I like the coco lynch. I think Baka is very unlikely to be scum.

vote coco

[Cyberbob]

Who's Baka? Do you mean Vaya?

[SerialClergyman]

I did. The phone autocorrected.

[charter]

I've always liked the pact idea. Sorry for my big drop in posting, another game is at a crucial point and I'm still on my phone.

I like the coco lynch. I think Baka is very unlikely to be scum.

vote coco

What about Cathart? There's more choices than Vaya and CoCo. We could try and lynch scum today instead of a policy lynch, you know.

[SerialClergyman]

This is a good point. The reality is
I'm unable to go looking for clues and things, so I'm relying on memory. And a poliy lynch doesn't mean lynching someone you think
is town. Coco has given me enough pause.

Having said that, cathart has a more indicative relationship with peabody. I'd be up for a cathart lynch.