Open 162--Trendy and Subversive - Over! before 831

[Netopalis]

I confirmed by PM, but I suppose that it wouldn't hurt to confirm here too. Still, I don't think we're supposed to discuss here yet, since he didn't post the number of votes to lynch (even though we all know it's 4).

[Netopalis]

Trying to get the gifs in early, Yabb?

[Netopalis]

Well, then, my meta is that I'm new and therefore not responsible for anything that I do which seems scummy. Anything which seems like brilliant play, however, is still to be attributed to me.

[Netopalis]

(quoting Not the Nine O'Clock News)
And *I* am the Nazi General who enjoys being fitted for uniforms while listening to classical music with his eyes closed! I am also the general who will tell the protagonist "You'll find that we are not all animals..."

[Netopalis]

Vote: Khamisa

for adding an unnecessary second vote.

[Netopalis]

Putting two votes on a single player, both of which are random, is dangerous. In a game with only 7 players, this is potentially a fatal mistake....that being said, I think scum would be idiotic to jump on it....But it's still not a good random vote.

[Netopalis]

Jahudo - either. I just don't see any value on putting 2 votes on the same player during the random voting phase. It's the only thing that I've seen that was even remotely worth discussing...

[Netopalis]

Well, it's been 24 hours since anyone posted here. I'm going to pose a few topics of discussion.


1) Albert B. Rampage has posted nothing other than FOSs and votes. Is this his standard modus operandi, or is this unusual play for him? I understand that he has a very unusual (read: scummy) playstyle - does this explain his actions?

2) Yabb has just suggested a policy lynch of a confirmed power role due to the possible presence of a Mafia Roleblocker. Personally, in a game with only 7 players, I find that the loss in power of giving up a chance to lynch scum outweighs the benefits of gaining the backup power role. We have to be very careful, as this will mostly be a quick game. What are your thoughts, and is Yabb scummy for making this suggestion?

3) Assuming that we had a deadline (which it looks as if we are quickly approaching getting one), what would you personally suggest as a course of action? Would you prefer no lynch, lynching someone essentially at random, lynching the player who will help the town the least...what? If you can think of a way to flush out scum before then, why haven't you made that play yet?

4) In general, what is your playstyle? What weaknesses do you have, and what strengths?

________

I'll start out with my own answers:

1) I'm honestly at a loss about Albert. He might be scum, he might be town. Having not played with him before, I don't know how to gauge his erratic behavior. Personally, if it came down to a deadline with no more information, I wouldn't be opposed to lynching him simply because it seems like he will contribute the least to a town win and he could certainly be mafia. That being said, should he speak up a bit more, I'd be more than willing to retract that judgment.

2) I'd be against the policy lynch, because I think our greatest enemy in this game is time - we have a very limited number of lynches to correctly lynch mafia, and a policy lynch would give us 1 extra investigation or protect in exchange for....pretty much nothing. If it's an investigation, we can simply lynch who we'd want to investigate, and if it's a protect, the chances of the protection and mafia kill lining up are slim. However, I don't think Yabb is scummy for suggesting this - it seems like he has logical reasons to support his opinion.

3) I have no idea how to flush out scum here, and if required to lynch right now, I would vote for the player who would help out the town the least, assuming that player isn't obviously town. At this point, it seems that all votes are practically equal given the amount of information we have.


4) In general, I don't post that much until there is more information. When there is more information, I tend to look not so much for people sticking together, but for people going for quicker lynches and using bad logic. I also tend to post far too much for my own good, saying things that, after I think about them a bit more, aren't as good as I originally thought they were. Another big weakness is that I haven't yet completed a game on this site, and this site is much more advanced than the one I played at previously (it was just a random forum game there).

[Netopalis]

Oh, sorry about the "possible roleblocker" thing - I thought that it was randomized with the other roles. Looking at the setup again, yeah.

[Netopalis]

Alright. I won't lie - I'm really not happy with our performance thusfar. It's been 5 days, and we're only on page 2? Pretty sad in my book. The worst offenders are CSL and Khamisa - I'm going to go ahead and

Vote: CSL

until he starts posting. I'd also recommend a prod.

[Netopalis]

Oh, I'm not suggesting a lynch of him. Just a threatening vote until he shows up...Plus, I know he's been active in other games - it's entirely possible that he's just lurking.

[Netopalis]

Jahudo, to answer your question, I picked CSL over Kham becuase I had seen him post in other games on the site - I'm not in any games with Kham. To me, that seemed rather lurkerish.

[Netopalis]

Again, not my intent to lynch - it's more of a prod vote. Not something that I plan on following up on. As for "going after people before the clock started rolling", we were all assuming the game was in play - we voted. Therefore, I don't see the fact that the mod didn't post anything as a big hindrance to encouraging those with fewer posts to show up more.

That being said, both Khamisa and CSL have shown up (although not with as much content as I would like). Therefore, I'm going to go ahead and

Unvote

.



I'll be honest, I'm rather stymied as to where we should go from here. Most players have posted little to nothing worth examining. I'm getting very, very concerned about the sluggish pace of information here. Inactive towns are generally not as effective as active ones - let's try to pick up the pace a bit more, alright?

[Netopalis]

CSL, the random vote stage is over when it's over - there's no set post when it becomes non-random. Jahudo is indeed at L-1, for no discernible reason. Why did you put him there?

Albert: The 4 questions were directed at everybody, including yourself. That being said, I do appreciate your candor in your post.

[Netopalis]

@CSL - Odd. You really ought to read votecounts before you vote. In fact...I'm afraid I'm going to have to go ahead and

FOS: CSL

for that...I'm not sure what you were doing, but it seemed very, very odd. If it was an honest mistake, please try to be a bit more aware in the future.

@Albert B. Rampage - Cryptic. I'm not quite sure how to take it.

[Netopalis]

Jahudo, Cass, my apologies for not responding to your questions earlier - I just noticed them. In my defense:

1) The deadline thing was a hypothetical designed to get discussion rolling. I wasn't implying a need for a quick lynch or even a need for a definitive policy - I just wanted to say *something* that would get the people on here talking.

2) The roleblocker thing is my fault as a newbie - while I'm not new to the game of Mafia, this is only my second game on this site, and I had misread the setup as saying that all roles would be randomized in the same way that the cop/doc thing would be. Having reread the rules, I understand them now - my apologies for the confusion.

[Netopalis]

Why, Khamisa?

[Netopalis]

Jahudo, in regards to my thing about CSL...As much as I hate to bring other games into it, I feel that I must. Without being too specific, as I understand that there's a rule barring people from discussing ongoing games too much, let me just say that this sort of erratic behavior seems to be CSL's normal play rather than the exception. Whether it's honest or whether it's a scumtell in both games is certainly a good question...but honestly, I've gotten rather exacerbated with it. He seems like a careless player who doesn't quite understand the game and perhaps should be playing a few more newbie games. That's my analysis at any rate. I know that it sounds harsh...but I guess I'm just trying to differentiate between behavior that is scummy and behavior that is indicative of mere lack of forethought.

[Netopalis]

Erratic...Maybe. I mean, if you wanted to be precise about definitions, sure, consistency isn't the problem - it's basic lack of skill. That being said, I do generally find him to be all-over-the-map on the few instances when he actually commits to arguments above just a few lines. Not really an asset for the town, but it does make him difficult to read as well.

[Netopalis]

Well, that should improve discussion, at least. Jahudo, I think that Yabbaguy has probably contributed more of substance than most players, even if on average his posts haven't been as cutting as they could be. That being said, in a game where nobody is talking, I think that his posts are perfectly reasonable attempts to foster discussion. Realistically, the only 3 that have discussed at what I consider to be an appropriate level are myself, Jahudo and Yabba...Cass is a borderline case. Albert, CSL and Khamisa have all been really terrible lurkers. Therefore, I recommend that we turn our focus to them, in hopes of prodding them to actual discussion and contribution rather than in-fighting amongst those of us who are active. We can cut to each other's throats later, given enough evidence.

[Netopalis]

Whoa, wait a minute...Why are you narrowing your possible scum thing down to me or Yabba? It's entirely possible (and at this point, I think, probable) that neither of us are scum.

As for answering your question....

1) Cass - has been mildly active, but just enough to possibly attempt to avoid suspicion.
2) Jahudo - Not sure why, I'm afraid..I find him slightly scummy.
3) Khamisa - Lots of actions, no reasoning.

I left CSL off the list because he's being replaced.

That being said, my list is a total crapshoot, since, for the most part, people haven't said anything of importance.

[Netopalis]

Very well, let's ask some questions then:

@Khamisa: who is more likely to be scum, Yabba or netopalis? Why?

[Netopalis]

Fair enough, I guess, but why did you ask only about the two of us?

[Netopalis]

Mod: Any update on the CSL-replacement?

[Netopalis]

I doubt that the mod would send us into lynch without a votecount..

[Netopalis]

Unvote: Jahudo

if I still am, then.

[Netopalis]

Not really. I'm just making sure, since at the time, I didn't have time to go back 3 pages for a votecount and see what's updated.

[Netopalis]

Oh, and also...

Vote: Mod

...we could really use a votecount.

[Netopalis]

Is it? He still hasn't posted a votecount...

[Netopalis]

I concur with YABB. We're getting nowhere. Step it up a notch, people!

[Netopalis]

Jahudo...Let's not unnecessarily attack those of us who are active. If the mod ever does show up, I wouldn't be opposed to lynching Albert. He's admitted that he's being completely useless, but he has been present long enough to make some contentless posts...The others can simply be replaced.

[Netopalis]

Jahudo, perhaps I misread it, but it seemed to me as if you were encouraging everybody to either vote for you or vote for Yabba. I really don't see the need for this, as I don't suspect either of you as scum. Can't we find another way to play this game?

Also, Albert, that is perhaps the worst excuse for lurking that I have *ever* heard.

MAJOR FOS: ALBERT B. RAMPAGE

[Netopalis]

I don't understand why you're pushing a voe, and I think that neither of you are scum - that is why I am confused. And before you say that's not what you meant..

I say everybody takes sides. yabba vs me. who ya got?

[Netopalis]

Of the two, I find you slightly more suspicious, but I really can't say that I suspect either of you.

[Netopalis]

Wow, nice. One problem - who else is voting Jahudo?

[Netopalis]

Ok. Look, we're getting nowhere otherwise. I'm afraid that Albert's refusal to play, despite the fact that he's shown up, forces me to do this.

Confirm vote: Albert B. Rampage

We're going to have the same problem day after day if we don't lynch him. Plus, I think his failure to play is scummy.

Albert: If you don't start posting some content, this vote stays.

[Netopalis]

]That we're both town? Yeah, I'm still considering that too. I just wanted reactions. Good way to keep up discussion, at least it should be.

Incidentally...Odd little thing here. I think it was just an odd turn of a phrase and not a scumtell...but you don't seem entirely sure if you're town or not?

[Netopalis]

Cass: True about the day after day, but my point stands that lynching an active player WILL mean that we have the same problem in the following days. Also, I fail to see how my activity makes me scummiest....It's an odd thing - on this site, it seems that activity makes someone scummy AND lack of activity makes someone scummy. Which is it?

[Netopalis]

For the record, I see a case against Albert before I do Khamisa...But I definitely see the need for Khamisa to start pulling her own weight.

[Netopalis]

Albert....I'm going to go ahead and contact the mod with another prod...As for you, I recommend that you do one of 3 things in response:

A) Post some actual content.
B) Replace out.
C) Get lynched.

[Netopalis]

Again, I'll say it. On the basis of us having nobody really to lynch today, barring a replacement/prod on CSL or actual content from Khamisa, I wholeheartedly endorse a lynch of Albert B. Rampage. We've given him multiple opportunities to contribute and he has refused each of them. Can *anybody* give me a reason why we *shouldn't* get rid of him? Anybody at all?

[Netopalis]

We could get rid of you, Netopalis.

<sarcasm>Oh, I'm so scared. Albert, I pray, stay your lynching hand from falling upon me and taking my life! </sarcasm>

[Netopalis]

As I said, Albert, my patience wears thin. Is there a point to all of this, or are you just wasting our collective time by continuing?

[Netopalis]

Very interesting point.....It's entirely possible that some combination of Jahudo/Albert/CSL could be scum....

Since a CSL-replacement doesn't seem to be forthcoming and he was scummy anyway, how do you all feel about looking at him instead? (since nobody besides me seems very enthusiastic about an Albert lynch)

[Netopalis]

Jahudo: I don't read it that way, quite frankly. My posts were sarcasm in response to an illusory threat of lynch and can be read merely as my exasperation with Albert's intentional irresponsiveness in the game.

Albert's fluff posting is, in my opinion, not a scumtell either. It falls in line with the rest of his play - cryptic, confusing and really not going anywhere. I suppose in a way it is a scumtell, but only if you take the rest of his play as a scumtell as well.

[Netopalis]

A convenient claim. Still, I hate to keep a vote on someone who has claimed...

Unvote: Albert B. Rampage

pending further discussion.

Vote: CSL

for now.

[Netopalis]

Guys, if you didn't realize, he just claimed mafia....


Also, CSL, if your claim is true....then you're an idiot. Replace out or whatever, but don't ruin the game for everybody else. Seriously.

[Netopalis]

Ok, sorry, I misread Yabba's post....seems reasonable, just make sure that we lynch him before the deadline.

[Netopalis]

Yabb, with all due respect, I really doubt that he's capable of that strategy. I've played with him twice now, and all of the evidence points to him being an idiot.

[Netopalis]

Well, as for my stance...I'm not sure that it will do a great deal of good, but I'm more than welcome to keep the day open if you'd like....I'm not sure how we should go about further scumhunting yet, though. I don't think that any of us were supportive of CSL or made any actionable connections with him, since he really was inactive.

[Netopalis]

Uh..If you folks want to discuss this day further, I recommend, uh, discussing....Otherwise, I'd be perfectly happy with a hammer. Anyone? Anyone?

[Netopalis]

Well, that's that. One down, one to go...

[Netopalis]

Preserving this for the next day, just in case I'm nightkilled:


I am fairly convinced that some combination of ABR/Cass/Jahudo is scum. ABR for his obvious scummy lack of content, Cass for his odd and infrequent postings which seem to be more of a hindrance than a help and Jahudo...Not really sure why on Jahudo - wording, perhaps? It's hard to say exactly why, but I do get a gut reaction from him. That being said, I find him the least likely candidate....

Also: Just did a quick reread. Unfortunately, due to CSL's inactivity/idiocy, there are no actionable connections between any of the other players and him.

[Netopalis]

Hmm....That eliminates one lurker suspect. Not really sure why the Mafia chose to kill Khamisa. I can think of a few possible reasons...but it's hard to say without, as Yabb said, delving into WIFOM territory. As I see it, we're pretty much where we were yesterday...

[Netopalis]

Well...I think that I'd probably feel strongest about a Cass lynch today, honestly. Cass' play yesterday wasn't so hot...and it seemed to me that he wasn't too interested in advancing the town's discussion. Yabb's play, on the other hand, was definitely geared towards the advancement of the discussion....It seems to me that the optimal scum play is probably to lay low given the level of activity.

And yeah, as much as I hate to say it, ABR is practically confirmed town. I find him scummy as all get out, but logic dictates that he has to be who he claims he is.

[Netopalis]

I'm going to go ahead and

Vote: Cass

....I'd like to hear from him, but I can definitely see us leaning towards him today, since 3 of us have said that he's pretty high on our lists.

[Netopalis]

Oh, hush. Just because you're innocent doesn't mean that I have to like you.

[Netopalis]

Fair enough point in regards to the number, but whether or not the play works, I do believe that Cass' lack of real contribution should at least put her under suspicion.

[Netopalis]

Not a backup. And I don't know why you're so nervous ABR. Again, if you weren't practically confirmed, I'd find your behavior suspicious.

[Netopalis]

Uh, I voted Cass...

[Netopalis]

Like I said before, I find his play to be almost wholly incomprehensible and unreadable. He played without any real, clear logic and I doubt that he had much of a plan. Perhaps someone else can see something in his play, but I'm rather clueless as to how knowing that CSL was mafia helps us. The only possible thing is where I tried to help him in the vain hope that yes, perhaps he may actually become a useful player - clearly, that failed. Obviously, I know that I'm town, though, so that's not much help to me...and we've already discussed it a few times.

[Netopalis]

Perhaps so. Don't know how well he would have followed it, though. Depends on who his partner was, I guess....

[Netopalis]

Hmm....Not much to do until we here from Cass or the mod, I guess....

*twiddles his thumbs*

[Netopalis]

*pokes the game with a stick to see if it's dead*

[Netopalis]

Yep. Why are you posting here? Are you replacing Cass?

[Netopalis]

Let's do this. I'm looking forward to the four of us playing...and Albert nominally participating...again.

[Netopalis]

COB Thursday? Whassat?

[Netopalis]

Jahudo, while I appreciate the logical positiveness of your statement - if China is town then he must know that one of the 3 of you, me and Yabba has to be scum - I find your constant setting up of dichotomies to be rather damaging to the town cause and honestly highly scummy. You've done this several times and each time you've said it was simply a way to spark discussion...but it seems that you are really, really interested in getting rid of Yabba. Why is that?

[Netopalis]

Jahudo, I'm sorry, you're a good player...but your actions lead me to believe that you're the most likely candidate for the scum here. I'm going to

Vote: Jahudo

, with the reservation to change my mind after a post by China. If there were more players available, I wouldn't be voting you at all, but given a tough situation like this where it seems that everybody's town or has a foolproof claim....I have to go with the person that I think is *most* likely to be scum.

[Netopalis]

First of all, Chinaman, let me say that the votecount is the mod's job and not yours. Second, ABR was not confirmed at the time that I posted that. Third, I was going after people for inactivity because the game was inactive and that was the primary thing hurting our advancement as town. My hope was that putting pressure on inactive players would cause them to, well, be active. Finally, my posts in relation to CSL were due to the fact that I've played games with him before and he was an abjectly awful player in all of them. I was really hoping that we could fix that. Eventually, I began to realize that he was a lost cause. Finally, you are not proven town and all agreed that Cass was rather scummy, so I'm not entirely sure why suspicion of Cass should be seen as a scumtell.

[Netopalis]

Blablahblah, my name is Albert B. Rampage and I expect people to value my opinion even though I don't read the bloody thread.

[Netopalis]

Big post coming after class sometime...Expect it before 6 PM.

[Netopalis]

Alright....My case on Cass:

1) By the same logic that you accuse me of a connection with CSL, Cass had one as well by excusing his failure to understand the vote status. However, since I don't feel that my actions were scummy in relation to CSL, I don't think that this particularly was either.

2) Very few posts are significant. The lengthy posts are often rather fluffy. Take, for example, the following one:

Very well, let's ask some questions then:

@Khamisa: who is more likely to be scum, Yabba or netopalis? Why?

@ABR: In this setup, is doc+nurse better for town, or cop+deputy? Why?

@Yabbaguy: So you think scum tends to lurk? In this specific game or in general?

@Jahudo: Do you think yabba's response to your attack was omgus, or something else? Why?

@Netopalis: Can you give us a top three of most scummy players? Preferably with some explanations.

For the mod:
Unvote: whoever I was voting

The question to Khamisa sets up a false dichotomy, the question to ABR doesn't relate to anything at all, the question to Yabba is rather easily answered, the question to Jahudo asks his opinion of another's action which is really marginal and the question to me is just a request for more information. At no point during this post does he give any of his own opinions.

3) He encourages a great deal of voting which, in a game this small, can lead to mislynches quite easily.

4) Again, by the same token, if you consider the lynching lurkers thing to be a scumtell against me, you must consider it a scumtell against yourself, because Cass advocated the same thing.


Finally, it just seems that in all of his posts (however few they may be), he's trying to look like he's participating without actually

saying

anything.



In re: Jahudo, for the longest time, I wasn't quite able to put my finger on exactly what it was that struck me as wrong about him. Then, today, it hit me - he is trying to encourage the town to act in specific ways by asking questions that fit players into certain categories. Post 17 is the first time that he does this (reading him in isolation), but he does the same thing again in 44. Many of his other posts in which he asks questions are generally leading, such as 9, 18, 33 and 44. It seems as if he is asking the question with the intent of driving the town in a certain direction. To me, this seems extremely scummy.

[Netopalis]

Ahem. You asked me for cases, please respond before you ignore me. I really am puzzled by your actions.....

[Netopalis]

Blast. I had this in the background...I didn't expect a hammer just yet. Not a terrible result, but I would have preferred to see more discussion.

[Netopalis]

Ok, responding to a few things....

1) I agree largely with Yabba's reasoning - it's a fair summation of our decision here. I probably would have worded a few things differently, but overall I agree.

2) ABR is convinced that scum will attempt to kill him tonight due to his confirmed status. This will probably happen if Jahudo flips doc. That being said...I'm rather convinced that he'll flip scum, so hopefully, the game is over.

3) Chinaman, why did you only read and analyze my posts after I called them to your attention? Your initial reaction was to vote for me! Your actions are inconsistent and scummy.

[Netopalis]

Given the circumstances, I don't think any of us should claim until the next day. The time to claim would have been the start of this game day.

[Netopalis]

Yeah, this is nuts....If Jahudo isn't the scum, China is dead in my book....

[Netopalis]

Chinaman, the more you talk, the deeper you dig your grave. I'm seriously considering opening the final day with a vote, something which I, as a rule, never do...

[Netopalis]

*sigh* I'm assuming this because your recent posts make it abundantly clear that you're the scum.

[Netopalis]

I never said that I *would* lynch you before I heard anything, I said I was almost getting to that point. You will have an opportunity to make your case.

[Netopalis]

Counterclaim Doc. Explanation after class.

[Netopalis]

Alrighty....

Firstly, my apologies to Jahudo. I obviously wrongly accused you and I am sorry.

Second, I would like to reiterate my claim for doc and point out that I will now be voting for Chinaman tomorrow, no matter what.

Third, I would like to point out that 202 and 305 seem to be China fishing for the doc - if he were the doc, why would he invite claims?

I think we're all in agreement here. Good game - a nice win for the town!

[Netopalis]

Yabba - For the longest time, I thought you were the nurse...I'm not entirely sure why, but your actions in the game sort of led me to believe you had a power role.

[Netopalis]

EBWOP: I meant 282, not 202.

[Netopalis]

ABR - I'm afraid so...I already sent in a PM protecting you shortly after the hammer, but it's obvious that China's going to roleblock me tonight. You win regardless, though.

[Netopalis]

I'm reasonably sure that ABR is after your head as well, Chinaman.

[Netopalis]

Being bad at mafia is no defense.

[Netopalis]

Also, nice attempt to butter up the third party for tomorrow's little game.

[Netopalis]

I don't see that my goals with CSL would have been any different whether I am vanilla or doctor, yet you were just fine with my actions when you still thought I was vanilla. You're backpedaling.

[Netopalis]

In essence, the doc role and the vanilla role are the same. The night action very rarely hits, and I generally play it as vanilla townie. If Albert and Yabba are unhappy with my explanations, I am more than willing to rehash them. I'm not going to indulge you, though.

[Netopalis]

Chinaman, I have never been a fan of long posts. My case on Cass and Jahudo was quite possibly the longest post that I have made on this site. I prefer my arguments to be concise and succinct. The only reason that I didn't originally claim is because I wanted to force you into picking someone that you would have to counterclaim against. You see, we really are in the same position - we both knew that ABR and Yabba pretty much had to be town. Therefore, either of us as scum needs to be able to counterclaim the other, or else the results would be disastrous. My hope was that you would default to claiming Vanilla Town when forced, making you in conflict with Yabba and not me. Sadly, you didn't fall into this trap.

Certainly, I hope that Yabba and ABR DO go back and read these posts. I hope they go back to my post in question regarding CSL and examine whether it really was scummy or not. I hope that they examine my attacks on Jahudo and my arguments against inactive players. I hope that they rigorously and thoroughly check up on my play and if they find that I am scum, I hope that they lynch me. I say this because I am confident that my play holds up to inspection. I am confident that when held in the balance, my words will speak for themselves and that my colleagues will realize who the real scum is. I am confident that they will not fall to your meaningless prattle and panicked assaults. I am confident that we will win this game.

[Netopalis]

Khelvaster, are we allowed to continue talking until the next day or no?

[Netopalis]

Yep. I've given my reasons, and it's pretty obvious that I'm going to

Vote: Chinaman

Yabba, is there anything that you need to know that would help you with your vote? Any questions?

[Netopalis]

Yes, Yabba. Yes it was.


*cue evil laugh*

[Netopalis]

I'm afraid so, Yabba. I hate to do it, you've been entirely too pleasant to me for most of this game...but yes, I am the mafia. Full discussion of my thought processes a bit later this evening, when I have a few moments.

[Netopalis]

You shouldn't. If it wasn't for his play, I would have never been able to pull that endgame off.

[Netopalis]

Incidentally, in re: 46, that's what I always post in re: an unforced scum claim....I really hate it, as they ruin the game.

[Netopalis]

Chinaman...No offense, but I think that you have the most to learn from this game of anyone....

[Netopalis]

Agreed on both counts. Khel still hasn't picked up my PM of 3 days ago. The game could have also been pretty much a lock had there been a massclaim on day 2 after CSL's admission....it would have went something like this:

Either:

1) I counterclaim, get lynched day 3 OR

2) I don't counterclaim, there are 3 possible suspects with 2 lynches - nearly an impossible win for the mafia.