Open 162--Trendy and Subversive - Over! before 831

[Albert B. Rampage]

@ABR-32: If everyone takes your route of trying to "settle in", the discussion is going to decline and we'll be that much closer to finding ourselves lurking our way to deadline. I do agree that this may take a while to get good reads on everyone, but I'd like your response to Netopalis-30, for one.

He hasn't actually asked me anything, but I agree with his assessment that I have been useless thus far, and a bandwagon, or a deadline lynch of me would be fair. I do not recommend such action in the knowledge of my circumstances, but in your positions, it is a good play to kill off the bad and the useless in the lack of anyone scummier. I understand completely the bad situation I have put you in since I am on the same team as the majority of you. I am sorry.

I hope I will get more involved after we reach page 4, if not earlier.

[CSL]

Uhh, is the RVS over? And is Jahudo at L-1?

[Netopalis]

CSL, the random vote stage is over when it's over - there's no set post when it becomes non-random. Jahudo is indeed at L-1, for no discernible reason. Why did you put him there?

Albert: The 4 questions were directed at everybody, including yourself. That being said, I do appreciate your candor in your post.

[CSL]

Netopalis, I have no clue. I never pay attention to votecounts that are small.

Unvote

[Albert B. Rampage]

1) No, not regular play. Sometimes I am less enthusiastic in a particular game.

2) Either the plan is a bad one or I don't fully understand it; leaning on the former.

3) Lynching a player at random.

4) My playstyle varies. My attitude varies to a lesser degree. My character is always the same.

[Netopalis]

@CSL - Odd. You really ought to read votecounts before you vote. In fact...I'm afraid I'm going to have to go ahead and

FOS: CSL

for that...I'm not sure what you were doing, but it seemed very, very odd. If it was an honest mistake, please try to be a bit more aware in the future.

@Albert B. Rampage - Cryptic. I'm not quite sure how to take it.

[Cass]

cass - post 31 shows concern over a deadline that was over two weeks away. It seems like premature concern for me because I've never seen it in any other slow-moving game unless deadline was less than one week away.
And why might scum be more likely to act like a roleblocker was only possible, as opposed to town just forgetting the setup? I can't think of any advantage gained.

Concern over a deadline? How do you read that in it? There wasn't even any mention of a deadline yet... I was answering the question "if you had to lynch right now". And to that my answer was "I'd ask for an extension".

Scum have two possible reasons to pretend there might be no roleblocker:
1) If a PR thinks there might be none, they could make the wrong decision about claiming or other choices. Fatal in LyLo.
2) By saying "oopsie I had not noticed there was a roleblocker", he could be trying to appear town. I'm sure you can see why.

CSL's not paying attention to votecounts is indeed a bit strange. He seems to be unaware of the smallness of this setup. I don't think that's a tell either way though.

Also:

Unvote

[Netopalis]

Jahudo, Cass, my apologies for not responding to your questions earlier - I just noticed them. In my defense:

1) The deadline thing was a hypothetical designed to get discussion rolling. I wasn't implying a need for a quick lynch or even a need for a definitive policy - I just wanted to say *something* that would get the people on here talking.

2) The roleblocker thing is my fault as a newbie - while I'm not new to the game of Mafia, this is only my second game on this site, and I had misread the setup as saying that all roles would be randomized in the same way that the cop/doc thing would be. Having reread the rules, I understand them now - my apologies for the confusion.

[Khamisa]

Unvote

[Netopalis]

Why, Khamisa?

[Jahudo]

Netopalis, I have no clue. I never pay attention to votecounts that are small.

Are you saying you saw the vote count but didn't read it, or you didn't know there was a vote count because it was small? Did you have an idea of who had votes on them vs. who didn't?

The vote count didn't indicate how many it took to lynch, but a quick check would show that it takes 4 votes to lynch. So any conservative, methodical player should always check the current vote count before placing any vote because it's so easy to push someone to L-1 in this setup and alot of people are probably going to be hanging at L-2 if they're under any pressure.

So CSL's vote makes me think he plays more free-flowing. Either that or he was hoping a clueless townie would accidentally hammer before someone notices it's L-1. No idea of knowing which. I'm not assuming one is more likely now.

I'm afraid I'm going to have to go ahead and FOS: CSL for that...I'm not sure what you were doing, but it seemed very, very odd. If it was an honest mistake, please try to be a bit more aware in the future.

@Neto: Do you think he made an honest mistake? The post sounds non-critical and your FoS looks like you're having doubt by saying you're afraid you have to call it out.

Concern over a deadline? How do you read that in it? There wasn't even any mention of a deadline yet... I was answering the question "if you had to lynch right now". And to that my answer was "I'd ask for an extension".

The deadline was mentioned in the opening post. I read your response as you wanting an extension when we still had 2-3 weeks to work with. Had you seen the standard 3-week deadline in the opening post? Your theories as why scum would fake ignorance over a RB sound possible, but I see it just as likely that someone could overlook the opening post.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Somebody explain to me this roleblocking business?

[Cass]

Concern over a deadline? How do you read that in it? There wasn't even any mention of a deadline yet... I was answering the question "if you had to lynch right now". And to that my answer was "I'd ask for an extension".

The deadline was mentioned in the opening post. I read your response as you wanting an extension when we still had 2-3 weeks to work with. Had you seen the standard 3-week deadline in the opening post?

I did read that and I want absolutely no extension on that

real

deadline. I'd just hypothetically want an extension if the deadline were suddenly magically today. Which is how I understood the question I was answering.

Your theories as why scum would fake ignorance over a RB sound possible, but I see it just as likely that someone could overlook the opening post.

True, and that's why it earned only a small FoS from me. Just wanted to point it out, in case a pattern shows up later.

Somebody explain to me this roleblocking business?

Netapolis said "there might be a roleblocker", while actually there is one for a fact. I FoSed him for that. Jahudo asked why a scum would pretend there's no rb/pretend he doesn't know the setup. I explained my reasoning to Jahudo. And now we seem to be agreed that it's at most a very minor scumtell.

[Netopalis]

Jahudo, in regards to my thing about CSL...As much as I hate to bring other games into it, I feel that I must. Without being too specific, as I understand that there's a rule barring people from discussing ongoing games too much, let me just say that this sort of erratic behavior seems to be CSL's normal play rather than the exception. Whether it's honest or whether it's a scumtell in both games is certainly a good question...but honestly, I've gotten rather exacerbated with it. He seems like a careless player who doesn't quite understand the game and perhaps should be playing a few more newbie games. That's my analysis at any rate. I know that it sounds harsh...but I guess I'm just trying to differentiate between behavior that is scummy and behavior that is indicative of mere lack of forethought.

[Khamisa]

Netopalis: because it was a random vote.

[yabbaguy]

@all: Guys... those Unvotes don't count without a trailing colon.

@Khelvaster

: Can we waive that syntax rule? Please?

@all: So this is my first game where our discussion has been noticeably slower than the rest, and I'm not quite sure how to go at this and start setting off more fireworks so that we can start doing more investigating. Any thoughts/ideas?

I can't notice anything alarmingly out of the ordinary in the first few pages, but that may be just because my mind's fried at present.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Somebody explain to me this roleblocking business?

Netapolis said "there might be a roleblocker", while actually there is one for a fact. I FoSed him for that. Jahudo asked why a scum would pretend there's no rb/pretend he doesn't know the setup. I explained my reasoning to Jahudo. And now we seem to be agreed that it's at most a very minor scumtell.

I think that in this case its a town tell.

[Albert B. Rampage]

@Khelvaster

: Can we waive that syntax rule? Please?

QFT

[Jahudo]

let me just say that this sort of erratic behavior seems to be CSL's normal play rather than the exception.
... He seems like a careless player who doesn't quite understand the game and perhaps should be playing a few more newbie games.

Is erratic the right word? Maybe I haven't seen enough of him to confirm or deny this, but that word makes me think of a player as having unusual inconsistency and I don't see the vote/unvote as that.

[Netopalis]

Erratic...Maybe. I mean, if you wanted to be precise about definitions, sure, consistency isn't the problem - it's basic lack of skill. That being said, I do generally find him to be all-over-the-map on the few instances when he actually commits to arguments above just a few lines. Not really an asset for the town, but it does make him difficult to read as well.

[CSL]

Netopalis: I'm really just testing to see if I'm up for these type of games. I'm generally just trying to have fun.

[yabbaguy]

@CSL+Khamisa: what are your first impressions of everyone?

[Cass]

I have the flu and a bit of a fever rigth now. I'll try to make a useful post when my mind is a bit clearer again... my apologies for lurking for a bit.

[Jahudo]

@CSL+Khamisa: what are your first impressions of everyone?

What are YOUR first impressions of everyone? So far you've talked about setup and your meta. I'm beginning to feel better about my vote at this moment.

[yabbaguy]

@Jahudo-73: I don't think that's a valid scumtell, discussing setup and meta when I'm supposed to be talking about... wait, we weren't talking about anything. Also, it's an obv. hyperbole that I have been talking about just those two matters, so you're basically stretching a case on me, which is scummy in itself.

As always, though, I'll answer my own questions.

ABR >>> I wish would post more contented thoughts. Just because he's not totally sure doesn't mean he can't post more detail.

Cass >>> speculative-to-town, granted, I can't venture too many people beyond the speculative line this soon. Mostly a content-based judgment

The reason I put the question to CSL and Khamisa is because they're contributing the least at present. I wish they would answer this and get more involved with the game.

Netopalis >>> speculative-to-town so far. Again, a content based judgment.

Jahudo >>> speculative-to-scummy so far for the crap case pushing.

Why did you feel the need to suddenly thrust the question my way?