/in-vitational 2 - Chosen, Karaoke - Game over! before 830

[Incognito]

Vote Count #1 of Day 4

Not voting (4) <-~ MiteyMouse, Papa Zito, Scien, Zorblag

With 4 living, 3 will do it.

Thursday, October 1st at 7 P.M. EDT.

[Scien]

Ah...

No.

I'm not saying that the game couldn't have played out differently, I am saying I was looking at the scums strategy.

Look at it this way. There is pros/cons in either the scum hitting the most pro-town looking vanilla townies. There is pros/cons in the scum hitting the scummiest looking vanilla townies. But they would have been following a constant theme.

Each nights actions, as the night would come, would have most likely been hitting the most pro-town looking guys, or the most scummy looking guys. The fact that that nights lynch hit what everyone else here believes to be a pretty pro-town looking guy means they were hitting pro-town looking guys.

This could suggest a set up in trying to leave scummy guys behind (because one might be chosen) or it could just be scum policy as usual and there is no set up.

What it does mean is that the scum were not intentionally leaving strong pro-town players around to make the pool larger to choose from at end game.

I was not trying to suggest that the game setup was 100% concocted from scum plans. Just was trying to think if they were trying to get the game in a state like this.

[Scien]

And just out of happenstance when a chosen was missed on night 3, that means no lynch and we couldn't get that information.

So I looked back at the night kill before.

[MiteyMouse]

Do you mean Day 3 in the post above Scien?

You know, Papa commented on this earlier but, I wanted to say that I agree, the 4 of us being here does not seem to be a coincedence.

That is actually pretty interesting Zorblag and Papa. I noticed that Scien didn't answer that little tidbit.

Papa...thank you for the ScumDay wishes!

[Scien]

Meh... it was implied when it was said, and I would tend to agree, but the most likely person here that would ignore win condition to set up a situation like this,

or attempt to do so

would be Ms. Mouse.

[Papa Zito]

For Scien To Assume This, Scien Must Have Known That Our Lynch Was On A Non-Chosen Townie. The Only Way For Scien To Know This Is If He Was Scum.

I'll pick a better code next time, heh.

Meh... it was implied when it was said, and I would tend to agree, but the most likely person here that would ignore win condition to set up a situation like this,

or attempt to do so

would be Ms. Mouse.

I recall a certain newbie game in which you were the primary architect in an endgame that's eerily similar to this one.

[Scien]

For revenges sake... I have no motive for revenge this time around.

On the contrary... in the pregame thread I had drama that was basically "Mafia scum elite" pointing at me and calling me a newb. I should want to do anything in my power to show that I would play the game well. Not that I have done that... but I wouldn't cook this here.

I know... its not something I can prove.

However my post 751 is what I was meaning. You are being played... or you are playing... I was not implying that the scum knew that the 3rd day would play out like it did... I was implying that there is something to be gained from the 2nd night... and everything after that played out in thread.

[Scien]

heh... as crappy a post as always.

Let's try this:

Not that I have done that... but I wouldn't cook this here.

Not that I have been playing a strong game, but I wouldn't let strong players live just because I wanted to beat them.

(And I apologize for the talk of the set up thread... I remember now that most that drama played out in PM... you didn't know who was attacking me for what. We can ignore that)

[Papa Zito]

Eh.

So what's your list Scien? Two Chosen, one VT, one Scum.

[Scien]

As I tried to say before its tough to say.

I know that Zorblag is scum or chosen.

I know that I am townie or chosen.

I think that you are pro-town, but don't know if you are chosen or not.

I think that me and Mitey caught the most flak.

I could build lists off that but there would be a multitude. That's one reason I am looking at freakin night 2 looking for tells that the scum could have been giving us.

There are multiple lists going off in my mind...

Because even though I have locked off what I am sure off... the things I am unsure of still multiplies that to multiple lists...

Meh. Does that make sense?

No. I will not commit to a single list... I am not confident enough of what I am unsure of to commit to a list. But I am sure of at least what Zorblag's and my positions are right now.

Would you like me to dump out the lists that I think are likely? I could do that and put a probability with them...

[Papa Zito]

That's better than nothing I suppose.

I recognize that there are other possibilities than what I posted; I just feel that list is the most likely. If you've got one that's a fair bit more likely than the others then I'd like to see that one.

[Zorblag]

No. I will not commit to a single list... I am not confident enough of what I am unsure of to commit to a list. But I am sure of at least what Zorblag's and my positions are right now.

What do be Troll's position right now?

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Papa Zito]

Cojin being here or not did not really hurt whoever the Scum is did it Papa? I'm not sure that that is a valid arguement at all...but, if you did bus then it bought you some Town cred didn't it?

Sorry Mitey, somehow I completely missed these questions.

We played as scum together once. How enthused was I by the notion of bussing you? Because if I was bussing here I'd have to have been absolutely vicious about it.

Also, do you think any town cred I might have earned outweighs the loss of a partner right off the bat? Given the setup, wouldn't that make it much harder for me to win?

[Scien]

What do be Troll's position right now?

As I have said before... you are scum... or you are chosen. I can't see you being alive at this point as a vanilla townie.

To PapaZ... Give me a bit I'll give you what I think is the most likely list... I want to percolate a bit more on it to think about the possibilities, and how they weigh in on my current game view.

[Zorblag]

Right, Troll thinks that Scien be lining up for Papa Zito or Mitey Mouse, Papa Zito be lining up for Troll or Scien with a lean towards Scien and MiteyMouse be, well, Troll no can tell but it no matters as Troll no thinks she be scum.

Vote: Zorblag

Troll could be reading this wrong but it seems like the best move that Troll can make. The Troll no be vanilla setup shtick be exactly why Troll would be kept alive. If Troll do be chosen then one of three player has played this well and Troll be impressed. This game no did go how Troll expected it to in any case.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Scien]

Uh... I think you are scum or chosen....

What makes you think you are not chosen if you indeed see yourself in a pro-town light...

You think my view is inaccurate? How? How are you alive through all these days?

[Zorblag]

Oh, Troll be pretty clear on what you be saying. Troll thinks that you be scum or wrong and not sure enough about which to make it worth voting for you because Troll thinks that Papa Zito be leaning towards voting you in the long run (Troll could be wrong about that pretty easily but Troll will go with Troll's gut at this time.)

That Troll could only be alive if Troll were the chosen be WIFOM. Scum that have made it this far just need to have fooled the town about one vanilla townie. Troll started the game pushing the idea that Troll would be the ideal one to exclude from being the chosen and that Troll should be night killed if Troll were just a vanilla townie. Perhaps Troll no was excluded and be the chosen but Troll does think that all those that be left in the game would have reason to put Troll near the top of their excluded list (Troll be arrogant that way.) Troll be looking an even number of steps into a WIFOM scenario but Troll thinks that it be the safest way to go at this point to lynch Troll. The fact that Scien be convinced that it be a bad idea be part of the reason why. Troll no be sure him has the wrong intentions but it should be the initial reaction Troll would expect people to have and Troll no trusts obvious initial reactions in this game.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Papa Zito]

So Troll has effectively put himself at L-1. Not hammering ITP.

Very interesting move, and it's put Scien-as-scum in a spot. He has to say that Zorblag is possible Chosen in order to justify not hammering. It also takes away one of the votes he would need to lynch a Chosen.

Need some moar Mitey before I drop a vote but I'm about ready to.

[Incognito]

Note: Unlike previous Chosen games that have been run, this Chosen does

not

use the "self-voting counts as two votes" rule. Just wanted to make that clear in case it wasn't already.

[Papa Zito]

Note: Unlike previous Chosen games that have been run, this Chosen does

not

use the "self-voting counts as two votes" rule. Just wanted to make that clear in case it wasn't already.

It wasn't, thanks Incognito.

[Zorblag]

Hmm, Troll once again has to decide what to make of a mistake it seems. Troll will think on that some.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Scien]

I'm not going to lie, I didn't know about the double vote thing, right from the get go I thought that was a single vote. I know it doesn't help me any, but that is the truth.

Even if I was scum and wanted Zorblag dead it would have been risky to place that vote. It would not have been a hammer.

What is interesting though is that PapaZ did think this was a double vote. He didn't hammer.

If Papa isn't scum then it means nothing. Right?

So this has ruled out a PapaZ scum Zorblag chosen combo (he would have attempted a hammer....) unless PapaZ is lying about his thoughts on double voting.

Or am I missing something?

[Zorblag]

Scien has it right it looks like. There be no reason to think that Scien would have expected self votes to count double. It be a bit surprising that Papa Zito would assume that especially after the talk that had just happened about it taking three votes and how a self vote no would clear things up for this game now but it was the case for the last Chosen game we played in.

If Papa Zito be telling the truth then we can rule out the possibility of him being scum and Troll being chosen. As Troll knows that Troll be town and be unsure about Papa Zito for Troll that actually be a pretty big deal as it makes Troll's self vote more comfortable.

If Papa Zito knew it was a mistake him was making then him could have been doing a number of things. If him do be scum and Troll be a chosen him could have been trying to get Troll to keep Troll's vote where it be and do exactly the sort of reassuring that would happen if Troll believed him were telling the truth. That seems really unnecessary to Troll as Troll no thinks that Troll had given any indication that Troll was fooling around and likely to change Troll's vote but perhaps him was worried about it. It feels like it would be too much of a risk to get something to happen as it was likely to anyhow though given how much of the flow of the game mistakes and reactions to them have already changed (clearing Sajin in some eyes, condemning Cojin.) It also could have been done in this case to make either Scien or MiteyMouse more willing to vote for Troll if Papa Zito was overly worried that both would be holding back.

If Papa Zito be scum and Troll be a vanilla townie it could have been done to make Troll more sure that Papa Zito was town as him no was hammering and making some issue of it. That would probably involve convincing Troll that Scien be likely enough to be scum that him was worth voting for but Troll no sees how him would expect that to happen. If we do be in this situation though Papa Zito likely had little to lose by trying whatever him could to get Troll's vote elsewhere as Troll thinks that Troll be the odds on favorite for the lynch no matter what happens from here on out.

If Papa Zito be town him could actually still be faking the mistaking. Him could have been trying to get either Scien or MiteyMouse to "hammer" as scum for what them thought was the win. Actually, this be clever; Troll probably no should have corrected Scien about how many votes it takes to hammer at this time for a similar attempt earlier. If that was the case it be moot now as Incognito quickly cleared things up.

On the whole Troll thinks that it be more likely to either not be a mistake or be one intended to help the town or get Troll to change Troll's vote than leave it where it was. Troll no really cares which of those cases be true if any are.

In time this might help either Scien or MiteyMouse when them see that Troll's presistence with keeping Troll's vote on Troll mean that Troll be less and less likely to be scum as time goes on. We will have to see how things play out.

If Troll's take on this be the wrong one and Papa Zito do be making an intentional mistake to get Troll to stay where Troll was him played it well.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

Er, if all could hold off on voting while Troll confirms something with the mod it would be good.

Mod: Should any chosen be lynched during the game when the first chosen to be lynched is lynched are they revealed as a chosen?

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Incognito]

Mod: Should any chosen be lynched during the game when the first chosen to be lynched is lynched are they revealed as a chosen?

Game Specific Rules

(somewhat hijacked from Ether)

• • The mafia does not need to lynch both of the Chosen Ones to win the game; they only need to lynch one of the two and of course need to satisfy the remainder of their win condition as well. Once one of the two Chosens is lynched, the second Chosen will revert into the equivalent of a Normal Townie and CAN be NK-ed if the mafia wishes to do so.
    This second Chosen One will still reveal as a "Chosen One" upon death, however.

Chosens will reveal as Chosens no matter the cause or order of death.