Mini 851 - Bloodlust Mafia! - Game Over

[J-Fox]

/confirm

[J-Fox]

CHA-CHA-CHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAIN

CHAIN OF FOOLS!!!!!!!!

I would rather spank them

lol

[J-Fox]

I think Rosso is my favorite scummer to read now.

heh, who else combines entertainment value with raw talent like i do?

Jimmy Carr

very true.

Lee Evans is my fave though lol

[J-Fox]

Vote: Haylen

I bloody hate pinapple cake lol, jk

Unvote: Haylen

...

Vote: Looker

Seriously...stop staring at me... it's creeping me out...

[J-Fox]

Unvote: Haylen

Vote: J-Fox

Sorry but I don't like furries.

lol, knew I'd get at least one vote for that , dw, I won't turn this into a discussion into the whys and wherefores and such, however:

Hopping off the bandwagon, eh?

Yea, and I'ma start a new one.

Unvote

Vote: AlmasterGM

lol

All this bandwagon hopping, I know it's early game and all that, but that makes me feel you're kinda uneasy, and makes me a little suspicious of you, so I'll change my random vote:

Unvote Vote: ChiboSempai

[J-Fox]

However even if I was or not, I don't see how keeping RVS going is a scumtell. If I was scum I would want to keep a vote on someone I was sure wasn't mafia, since I would know the other members. Anyone can be voted in RVS, and mafia members should want to stray from that to make sure they, or their fellow members don't accidentally get voted.

Actually that probably isn't strictly true, i'd imagine the scum may want to vote eachother sometimes during the RVS in an effort to fool us about their affiliations with eachother.

[J-Fox]

Everyone should be voting one of these two.

Why?

[J-Fox]

Will you take 'cause I said so, as a valid answer?

Well, what I wonder is why you seem to be keen to restrict voting to between these two?

[J-Fox]

All shall be revealed at a proper time. For the time being I would like to see some competing wagons going on between these two.

---

On a separate note, I am out for the weekend. See all of you lovely people on Monday.

Ok, but I'm not sure I like your apparent attempts to try and control the town

[J-Fox]

oh, forgot about the other two pages after reading pg 3

unvote

What is the reasoning for the almaster & chibo wagons?

The wagon on me is just intuitive.

From what I understand, both are.

Intuition still needs something to guide it, though.

Yeah, Chibo's has reasoning behind it, can't really see any decent reasoning on Almaster though, apart from "It's a random bandwagon, lets just roll with it"

[J-Fox]

Hopping off the bandwagon, eh?

Yea, and I'ma start a new one.

Unvote

Vote: AlmasterGM

lol

All this bandwagon hopping, I know it's early game and all that, but that makes me feel you're kinda uneasy, and makes me a little suspicious of you, so I'll change my random vote:

Unvote Vote: ChiboSempai

[J-Fox]

Do you intend to reply to his defense, or are you goign to pretend that it isn't there?

In my defense - well, there really isn't one. Think about it. The same could be said about anyone. If I were to target someone else, how would they be able to defend themselves.

I can't really grasp what he's getting at in terms as a defense in his post. He said the same could be said about anyone, but it can't be, no-one else hopped like a flea between votes that quickly, and that made him look like he was a little on edge and nervous, something scum would probably be more so than town.

[J-Fox]

I apologise, been busy past couple of days with schoolwork, sorry for the long post forthcoming:

SCUM

canadianbovine

- hasn't done ANYTHING except confirm and random vote. Literally, he has two posts.

Lurking does not equal scum, lurking could just mean he is busy or away and not told anyone here or something. A lurker is simply an easy target for someone to say they're scum because they are not around to defend themselves.

And oh dear, I really did not like parts of your next post at all either:

random stuff

Why is it that you say NOTHING until your name is mentioned, and then you suddenly pop out of nowhere? Where were you?

Chibo has already made this point, so trying to pass it off as your own to look involved is not a good thing to do.

1) I vote for who I see as most scummy at the time, you all are on a huge line graph in my head, and the person whose point is highest on there when i mentally update it gets my vote...

Ok - it's just a little odd that 1) this conveniently changed twice to reflect bandwagons that someone else started and 2) you never gave any reason for doing anything.

The first one of these changes (to yourself) was during the end of the random period, so understandable. And the 2nd one (changing to looker), she gave valid reasons for, unlike what you claimed.

="Haylen"]2/3) I've been busy and distracted as of late, in between moving houses. I got my keys today It's this weird digital thing and it's round and purple If you notice, my activity has dropped in all my games...

If you're busy, you're busy. Your posts don't give a busy feel, they give a "I want to appear involved" feel. Also, if you are busy, how did you have time to go through and determine who you thought was scum?

Because that's what we're supposed to do on the site, if you can't be arsed to do that, you may as well not be posting at all. Explain how they give a a "want to appear involved" feel please.


I find it interesting how Peabody waited for someone else to vote for Rosso before taking the plunge himself, were you simply waiting for someone to do so first so that if something went wrong with it (eg. Rosso got lynched and turned up town), you could blame Ray for it? To be fair to you, I did like how you took your vote off when you realised Rosso was at -2, quite wise.

Also, AGM's vote for Rosso straight after these two votes was highly hypocritical on his part, considering one of the reasons he said he didn't like Haylen was bandwagon hopping with little reasoning.

... and suspecting inactives is always appropriate...

Why?

What's with the vote on Pomegranate in Post 250 Looker? You gave absolutely no reasoning for it as far as I can see

There's a limit to how effective anyone's skills are in D1, there's hardly anything to go by. I will explain the reasoning behind my questions after Rosso answers them. I don't want to give away my thoughts behind them until he answers lol.

This is honestly completely utterly false. D1 is the absolute most important day, grazing it off like you are isnt scummy, its just clear you havent had much practice. D1 is boundless in showing someones potential. once roles start being flipped up, the D1 emotions simply become the purest in the game, unskewered by anything else.

And give me a list of said questions again, because i dont remember any and im too lazy to look.

Yes, but he was saying that during it's current time, Day 1 is the hardest as there is nothing to go by while playing through it. I suspect you're probably correct about Day 1 being useful to glean over near endgame for extra clues however.

Chibo, Post 274 was far and away the worst I've seen all game, you're basically saying you're voting Rosso because you don't like him and you feel he's detrimental to the town, NOT because you feel he is actually scum, which is who we should be eliminating. Saying we should lynch someone simply because they aren't contributing anything is a PERFECT scum method of getting the town to off someone who is annoying (and therefore an easy target) but town instead of scum. I am not saying I feel Rosso is definately town, but your reason for voting him was simply horrible and gives off huge scum vibes. I was considering taking my vote off you up till that post, but now I'm definatly keeping it on unless something VERY scummy comes along. NOTE: I see Ray's covered this in the very next post, but I shall keep this here anyway as reasoning for my vote.

I'm not entirely convinced by your reasonings in Post 276, Rosso hiding info could well be playstyle, or he might have a decent reason for it, it definatly isn't a crime you should vote someone for.

Ray, why should Rosso have to post full scumlists on Day 1? As we've established, there is little info to go off on Day 1, yes I suppose making connections could be helpful, but on Day 1, it's highly unlikely anything major in that department will be much more than wild speculation, so asking him for a full scumlist is a bit of a waste of time really.

[J-Fox]

I meant suspecting inactives as in like, it would be good to keep an eye on them or try to get them to talk, not thinking they are scum yet. However keeping active and talking a lot is likely to make someone slip or something. Not talking in the first place doesn't let anyone have any reads on you, good or bad. Also by suspecting a inactive and being vocal about it, you're forcing them to sort of come back and defend themselves.

That's not suspicion worthy, there are prods and replacements for that purpose. Voting should be reserved for scummy behaviour, not to coerce someone back to posting

[J-Fox]

Whats the difference between that and a using a voting bandwagon to apply pressure to someone?

Bandwagon pressuring someone is valid because it encourages people to post

better

, not more.

Besides, mod cannot prod someone if they're already posting, but he can prod inactives.

[J-Fox]

Lurking does not equal scum, lurking could just mean he is busy or away and not told anyone here or something. A lurker is simply an easy target for someone to say they're scum because they are not around to defend themselves.

Ok, so if I'm ever in a game with you and I'm scum, I can just lurk and you'll never lynch me. Thanks for the pro-tip.

Because if you lurk, you'll get prodded and eventually replaced if you keep on doing it.

Quote:
Chibo has already made this point, so trying to pass it off as your own to look involved is not a good thing to do.


Obviously you just decided you were going to line-by-line me and didn't actually look at the context my post was made in. I write my posts in textedit before I make them, and I made my post like a half hour after Chibo - it was just a simulpost. Moreover, even if there was a little lag time, how am I trying to "pass the point off" as my own? That makes no sense.

Point taken, sorry.

Quote:
The first one of these changes (to yourself) was during the end of the random period, so understandable. And the 2nd one (changing to looker), she gave valid reasons for, unlike what you claimed.


Matter of opinion. Personally, I don't think "the end of the RVS" and a one liner about tunneling constitutes a sufficient explanation.

Well to me, that's an explaination, I mean, she did say why she voted him, you don't have to write an essay every time you give reasons for voting someone, quite often giving short and sweet reasoning that explains well enough why is best, as it doesn't clog up the game.

Quote:
Because that's what we're supposed to do on the site, if you can't be arsed to do that, you may as well not be posting at all. Explain how they give a a "want to appear involved" feel please.


Go back and read them in isolation. You'll see it.

That however is not an explaination, I want YOU to explain why you find her scummy, not have me do that for you.

Quote:
That's not suspicion worthy, there are prods and replacements for that purpose. Voting should be reserved for scummy behaviour, not to coerce someone back to posting


Wrong. Learn to play.

Insults do not equal gd play either. Perhaps you should explain why I am wrong instead?

The reason why lurking is generally considered scummy is because through lurking one can avoid saying scummy things. Everyone is now saying that lurking=/=scum, which is sometimes true, but I usually see that a pressure vote or two doesn't hurt, and in some cases, lynch is the best option.

I suppose you'd be right about the pressure votes to perhaps force them out the woodwork if they are actually reading the game and choosing not to post (which is ofc scummy), but imo, punishing people who make scummy posts with votes is probably a better use of them, otherwise you may well be wasting your vote on someone who just ain't gonna see it and respond, it could well have been pressuring someone who is actually scummy and you know is acting scummy instead.

Also, active lurking is scummy. There is a distinction between actively lurking, (Reading the thread without posting in such a way that appears strategic.) and lurking in general.

^This explains perfectly well what I mean, and the main problem is, especially so on Day 1, it's very hard to tell the difference between active and passive lurking, unless they explicitly say they're actively lurking, and you'd be an absolute fool to do that.

I lost my post Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad
So much for those people in my other games who kept telling me to write it up in Notepad...

*hugs*


I'm not entirely certain Rosso would like being compared to ZONEACE...

[J-Fox]

The night kills were surprising and could tell us something... So there were two night kills, and since we have the mafia and a serial killer, does this rule out the chance of a vigilante? That, or can one of the 3 possible killers (mafia, sk, vigilante) forego their night kill? Only Vigilante can do that right? unless the mafia could as well?

I'm pretty certain that if either of the scum or SK do not send in a night choice, either through choice or running out of time, they will not kill anyone, so it's possible for any of the killing factions (scum/SK/or possible Vig) to have not killed last night. I'd be surprised if scum missed their kill though. Can't really take a guess as to who did what, Looker's kill kinda looked scum-like, but why would they kill Looker? No offense to him, but he wasn't having the best of games imo.

Almaster, what the hell was that?? Please explain why it is in the towns best interests to end Day 1 as quickly as possible (thereby being able to take a lot less info than we could have been able to into the next day) by lynching a player you didn't even give the chance to claim his role? What if he'd been a power-role for example? If he were, that power would have been out of the game forever when that could have easily been prevented by a claim, which you didn't allow him to have, ALWAYS ALWAYS allow a player to at least claim before they get hammered, seriously, it's just common sense. I shall give you one posts chance to give me a good explaination to both my points, and if I feel it isn't good enough, my vote WILL be on you.

vote: chibo sempai

you're scum or the sk.

You're saying that with a lot of certainty, why?

[J-Fox]

Oh I see, that is pretty likely he is one of those, won't vote yet though, will let Chibo have his say

FOS: Chibo

[J-Fox]

Almaster, what the hell was that?? Please explain why it is in the towns best interests to end Day 1 as quickly as possible (thereby being able to take a lot less info than we could have been able to into the next day) by lynching a player you didn't even give the chance to claim his role?

I hate day one. I am in the camp that trying to "read" people is largely a crapshoot and that you really can't tell anything. Any good scum will be able to fake town, and there are plenty of townies who make moves that others consider to be bad (you'll get a nice case-in-point of this if you lynch me). I think that the best way to scumhunt is a) with power roles, b) voting analysis, and c) flips after night. Ending day 1 early helps all of these aspects.
Power roles: 1) they obviously don't activate until day two anyway and 2) the longer day one lasts, the higher the chance scum will get a read on a power role and take them out. By keeping day one as textually ambiguous as possible, everyone looks the same, thus maximizing the chance our power roles live.
Voting analysis / flips: 1) If day one lasts forever and turns into a giant 30-page long block of text, it's impossible to sort through. Everyone will have commented on everyone, and everyone will have changed their vote at least 5 times. It's impossible to determine where anyone's loyalties lie. By keeping things concise, people are boxed into a certain stance that they can't rescind. This makes it hard for scum to hide later in the game.

Yeah OK, that is true, the less posts, the less power role tells. But we can only win a game if we lynch scum. We can still win a game even if all our power roles die, but if even only 1 scum is left alive at the end of the game, the scum have won. Information-wise, yes, we are poorer on Day 1 than on any other day, but this certainly does not mean it is impossible to get some decently strong evidence (as strong as reads without backup from revealed roles and such can be anyway) on players first before deciding to lynch them, rather than simply jumping all over the first error a player makes, or the first significant bandwagon after the RV-stage.

Who says the scum are gd players anyway? There's a very gd chance we also have some inexperienced or bad scum as well. The ones that may not be able to do a good town-act. Overall, it really is better to have quite a lot of posts to be able to determine as best as possible who is scum and not, and, of course up to a reasonable point (which is way before just 18 pages imo), the best way to do that is with plenty of evidence from posts and vote counts and such, things that can only be done in the day. From posts and votes we can work out connections between players, and so once one scum falls, we can try and work out the other scum from there. That is always an effective tactic.

What if he'd been a power-role for example? If he were, that power would have been out of the game forever when that could have easily been prevented by a claim, which you didn't allow him to have, ALWAYS ALWAYS allow a player to at least claim before they get hammered, seriously, it's just common sense.

Like I said to Zach a little bit earlier: I got no power role read. If he had claimed cop/doctor, I would have just read it as an attempt to fish out the real power role and been even more suspicious of him. If he had claimed town, nobody would've unvoted (who unvotes on a vanilla claim?). There was no difference between letting him claim versus not.

Your read could very easily be wrong, it's always better to wait for an actual claim rather than just chance out on a read in case you end up getting it wrong and lynching the Tracker or someone else quite important.

If he did claim a Power Role, and he was simply fishing, for reasons stated above, it is well worth it to sacrifice a power role for a scum. I'm sorry, but your reasons for ending the day early without letting Peabody have a chance to claim are completely illogical in my opinion, and are quite a big scumtell in my eyes.

Oh I see, that is pretty likely he is one of those, won't vote yet though, will let Chibo have his say FOS: Chibo

Um, why? There is nothing for Chibo to say. It would make zero sense for CB to fake claim being the tracker so we would mis-lynch Chibo. Trading chibo (new player, townie), for cb (experienced player, mafia) would be an AWFUL play.

The ONLY excuse is: "I'm Vig, and the SK got roleblocked." Not gonna buy it.

It is possible that one of the targets was targeted by the possible Jailkeeper as well too.

Lookers kill does look a little Vig-like to be fair to Chibo, it is still quite likely he is scum, and we certainly shouldn't take the evidence from death scenes too seriously, it could easily be the case the mod is trying to trick us in that very way, perhaps to make things a bit easier for the SK for example. I want to question him a bit further first though to make sure. Especially after yesterday, this is likely the best thing to do before jumping too rashly to conclusions and irreversable lynches.

Chibo, if you are the Vig, why did you choose to kill on Night 1? Rather than wait a bit for firmer evidence than Day 1 reads on players to be more certain. You have to remember that, just like lynches, Vigkills are irreversable, once a player is dead, they are dead, no bringing them back.

[J-Fox]

Seems like an overly paranoid reason to take someone else out of the game entirely. Just because one person who is held in high regard believes you are someone else are linked hardly means you will definately be lynched tomorrow. Who says Looker wouldn't have been the one lynched? Or someone else would get a much better reason against them?

Am I right in saying you did this purely for that reason, and not because you had any strong suspicions that Looker was scum?

[J-Fox]

That would involve the Town RB claiming who he is, something we definately do NOT want.

Your plan doesn't really work as we are already aware that you kill people, we just ain't sure whether you are Vig, SK or scum. I suppose your plan may be somewhat helpful if you are scum, as that ties up their nightkill. It doesn't really matter to you if you're the SK and we tell you who to kill, as long as you kill, that's OK for you.

The rest of your post is pretty much AtE

[J-Fox]

Hmm, this argument between Ray and Chibo appears to be getting nowhere. It's just them arguing the semantics of an SK in general, not just in this game, with Chibo continually re-iterating over and over that he is the Vig and he can "prove it" by killing (this despite both SK's and Vig's being able to kill anyway, so the ability to kill doesn't prove anything about your alignment). Chibo's already asked about this game, so we'll get an answer (if the mod wants to answer that particular question soon) and leave it at that, there isn't really any need to discuss issues that only really matter out the game in-game.

Ray, I'm not too sure I like your reasoning for voting Chibo, seems a little like you're jumping all over a fairly minor reason to try and justify a quicklynch ("Lets lynch this SK and his fakeclaiming ass"), why are you so keen to end the day so early, again?

It would probably be a bad idea to have today being completely about Chibo, hence, may I request we all post our 2nd biggest suspect (or biggest if it isn't Chibo), so we have something more to go into Day 3 with than just this? I'll say Almaster personally, as I've already stated, I found his reasoning for ending Day 1 early poor and illogical, and I'm very suspicious of him for it, as I think he's just BSing us with his attempted justification of it.

[J-Fox]

I'm not pushing for a quick lynch so much as I am determined to have a chibo lynch, since I think he's sk. This doesn't mean I want chibo lynched immediately, just that he's my preference.

If you don't want him lynched right away, why use the phrase "Let's lynch this SK!"? That sounds quite a lot like you want him lynched as soon as possible

Would you mind summarizing your case on almaster, so I get the full extent of it?

Will do next post, just noticed something I want to point out here and now:

Zach makes a very good point in that last post, why are you so sure that it was the SK, not the scum, that got blocked Chibo? To quote you directly:

Fact 4: Either
a) The SK was hit by the Mafia Roleblocker
b) The SK was hit by the Jailer
c) The SK's target was hit by the Jailer

No mention of the scum here at all.

[J-Fox]

My case against Almaster:

Quite a bulk of it are in these two posts. My opinion of him is not at all helped by the fact that, as Chibo has pointed out, he has now tried to end

both

days early, so it looking a little unlikely that his only motive for wanting to cut Day 1 short like that was because he genuinly feels Day 1 is worthless, thanks to this though, it's looking increasingly likely he has an ulterior motive for doing that.

As well as this, a couple of things in his posts do not sit too well with me either.

SCUM

canadianbovine

- hasn't done ANYTHING except confirm and random vote. Literally, he has two posts.

Haylen

- switcher her vote twice (outside of RVS) to jump on random bandwagons. Hardly gives any analysis in her posts. What few posts she does have are beefed up with pointless questions.

Looker

- plays the n00b card multiple times, but has been registered since February. Huh?

Rosso Carne

- hasn't said anything relevant to the game AT ALL.

Zachrulez

- Lurky

Pomegranate

- V/LA

Konowa

- V/LA

RayFrost

Peabody

J-Fox

ChiboSempai

TOWN

Why is passive lurking scummier than active lurking?

Here he jumped on the Rosso wagon for no apparent reason. This despite the fact that in your very next post, you appear to be defending him, or at least covering for him.

That being said, I don't have a problem keeping Rosso around another round or so. The only problem is what happens in D2 or 3 if he hasn't done anything? Are we going to lynch him then? No. Everyone will probably forget about D1, Rosso will be like "it's not my fault I don't nail scum every time," and he'll run free. It's a dangerous situation.

This is an extremely fence-sitty post. You're against Rosso's lynch, but you also think keeping him around is a dangerous situation? Way to keep your options open about him.

Another post of mine against him here. He never got round to responding to these points either, unfortunately too busy wielding an untimely, giant hammer to do so.

In addition to all this, Rosso, who we now know is town, was consistantly suspicious of Almaster as well, both before and after he hammered.

[J-Fox]

Mod: Can the mafia's night kill be prevented in anyway by the Jailer?

Why would you think it'd be impossible for the scum's kill to be blocked, but possible for the SK's to be? Not only would this be incredibly unusual, but ridiculously unfair against the SK, considering the numerical disadvantage he is at already.

So technically it is possible for the mafia's kill to be stopped, considering it was only N1 and the descriptions of the kills, I would say it's safe to assume that their kill was indeed carried through.

It's always safer to just completely ignore the kill descriptions as evidence, playing mod is always a very dangerous game and can easily lead to incorrect assumptions.

Why is it any more likely for the SK to have been blocked than the scum? What night it is doesn't play any role in likelihood of blocking, it is, as far as I can tell, always pretty much 50/50 if anyone does get blocked.

[J-Fox]

Will reply to Almaster's post after school.

That plan of yours Chibo actually does make quite a bit of sense, unless you happen to be mafia that is, then you could simply nominate someone else on your team to do the kill.

[J-Fox]

Seriously, I can't believe this is even being debated. We have a PR claim against Chibo, and everyone is eating up this fairy tale about him being the roleblocked Vig? Give me a break. I don't feel like doing the exact math, but there's only a 33% chance he's the Vig out of 3 killing roles and there's only an 8.3% chance the SK was targeted by a roleblocker. Combined with the fact that the kill itself was pretty awful, I see ZERO REASON WHY we are believing this claim. He continually rolefishes and tries to get our other PR's to waste reveals or night actions to confirm his supposed innocence. This is a no-brainer.

Just for clarity, you're saying that we shouldn't even be thinking about this, and should be blindly walking into another quicklynch, just like yesterday?

Yeah OK, that is true, the less posts, the less power role tells. But we can only win a game if we lynch scum. We can still win a game even if all our power roles die, but if even only 1 scum is left alive at the end of the game, the scum have won. Information-wise, yes, we are poorer on Day 1 than on any other day, but this certainly does not mean it is impossible to get some decently strong evidence (as strong as reads without backup from revealed roles and such can be anyway) on players first before deciding to lynch them, rather than simply jumping all over the first error a player makes, or the first significant bandwagon after the RV-stage.

You're greatly underestimating the value of power roles. Like I said before, it's very hard to get tells - they are often inaccurate. Although it's certainly possible to get evidence, I think it's a better gamble to forgo that possibility and protect the power roles. Conveniently, look at the outcome of Night 1 - Three townies down, all 4 or 5 of our PR's are alive and kicking. Seems like a win to me.

Is three townies being down a win compared to, say, a scum, a townie and a Tracker down?

Who says the scum are gd players anyway? There's a very gd chance we also have some inexperienced or bad scum as well. The ones that may not be able to do a good town-act. Overall, it really is better to have quite a lot of posts to be able to determine as best as possible who is scum and not, and, of course up to a reasonable point (which is way before just 18 pages imo), the best way to do that is with plenty of evidence from posts and vote counts and such, things that can only be done in the day. From posts and votes we can work out connections between players, and so once one scum falls, we can try and work out the other scum from there. That is always an effective tactic.

If they're bad as scum, we'll catch them later anyway. There's no rush to nab them on Day 1. As far as the "plenty of evidence" goes, we already have 15 pages of evidence. Any more would be excessive and make things more complicated. I already stated this point in my original post.

Surely it's better to try and get these bad scum, if they exist, offed on Day 1 so we weaken the scum as early as possible. Common sense dictates that, if we quicklynch a couple of days and THEN start taking out the bad scum (assuming bad scum even exist, if all of them are competent, this makes your plan even WORSE), then we'll have less days (and less evidence) after that to root out the clever scum.

As well as this, the more days we quicklynch, the more likely we are to have more mislynches. And if we mislynch, not only do we take out one of our own, we also give the scum a free opportunity to potentially take out a Power Role, sometimes the scum lucky guess on nightkills and take out a power role even without a lot of evidence to suggest they are power roles, they just get lucky.

Your read could very easily be wrong, it's always better to wait for an actual claim rather than just chance out on a read in case you end up getting it wrong and lynching the Tracker or someone else quite important.

I'd trust my read way more than I trust Peabody's claim. So, no.

So, even if Peabody claimed Jailkeeper or Tracker or something like that, you'd have still lynched him based on your read of him. A read which is based on Day 1 evidence, which you've already said yourself is very weak. This is not only unbelievably stubborn, but also very hypocritical as well.

If he did claim a Power Role, and he was simply fishing, for reasons stated above, it is well worth it to sacrifice a power role for a scum. I'm sorry, but your reasons for ending the day early without letting Peabody have a chance to claim are completely illogical in my opinion, and are quite a big scumtell in my eyes.

Completely wrong. It's worth it to sacrifice a PR to get a previously hidden scum, but it is definitely NOT worth it to confirm someone who's at L-1. Why on earth would we want to give up our Cop or Doctor so that we could be 100% sure Peabody was scum? Terrible idea. Just terrible. Any game theorist will confirm its.

We don't even have a Cop or Doc if you read the OP, but that's slightly beside the point.

What isn't however is the fact that just because someone is at -1, that far from makes it likely they are scum. As you keep saying, only evidence based on posts are available to us on Day 1, and you've said countless times before evidence based on posts is weak, but now you've twice called this enough to make someone likely scum.

It is possible that one of the targets was targeted by the possible Jailkeeper as well too.

It's statistically unlikely, but possible, yes.

And therefore something we must consider before jumping in with two feet again.


I'm now fairly convinced Almaster is who we should be lynching today, we have a Tracker claim on Chibo yes, but he still could well be the Vig, and it's a bit more likely that, if he isn't the Vig, he is the SK. Almaster gives me much more of a Mafia-vibe than an SK-vibe, and I feel we probably should be targeting Mafia over SK's at this point, especially since, if Chibo is SK, we can direct him if we so choose to.

Vote: Almaster

[J-Fox]

Oh yes ofc Almaster, the 4 of us that are on your wagon also just happen to be the SK and all 3 Mafia all neatly arranged just for you to pick up on at will

Really, I highly doubt an organised scum would ever be dumb enough to place all 3 of their members on a wagon of 4, unless they were playing a massively courageous gambit. Reasoning at the very least would be nice.

[J-Fox]

J-Fox appears to have forgotten im in the game.

*hugs* not a chance

NOTE: Yes, me and Haylen know eachother well outside the game, don't worry, we definately will not let this influence our in-game opinion of eachothers alignment, nor will we talk about this game outside of it, I swear that, and I'm sure Haylen does too. So, hopefully, none of you have any objections to us both being in this game.

However, because of this, I can vouch for Haylen that she really has been busy recently.

I find it convenient that everyone who finds my list convenient happens to be on it. In any case, I don't have time to make any cases right now. Feel free to either wait or do some of your own investigation. It'd be an especially potent idea after you learn I'm not scum.

No, we will not do your work and investigating for you, you got yourself under this suspicion, and we will not help you get out of it, it's your job to do that.

Besides, what else do you expect? You just called all of us scum, so we have a right to question why.

cb, I do not think a Chibo lynch is the right way to go today because I believe it will solve itself overnight. If the mafia is smart they will shoot him tonight before he starts shooting them. If he is the SK, lynching him will not reveal

anything

about who is mafia. I truly believe that Almaster is mafia and his flip will tell us a lot.

The only problem with the above there (though I do agree with you that Almaster is a much better lynch than Chibo today) is that the scum may WIFOM us by not taking him out tonight, leading us to believe he really is Mafia when he may not be.

If Chibo is SK, we will definately know by tomorrow, because he has pledged not to kill, so there are 3 kills tomorrow, we will know it was down to an SK-Chibo (this actually gets me thinking, I reckon it may be a good idea to ask our Vig, if he does exist and is not Chibo, does not kill tonight so we can definately be sure that, if there are 2 kills tomorrow, Chibo's was one of them, and he is an SK, what does everyone else think to this? I suppose it does waste a potential kill, that could have been on scum, but it also has a decent chance of hitting town too, and with the amount of Vanilla's down, a Vig-shot is pretty likely to hit a PR if he gets a town, so I reckon it may be worth it).

If we establish that Chibo is definately not the SK, then there is no way for sure to be able to tell if he's Mafia or Vig that I can think of right now. I doubt we will find any actually, but we should keep thinking all the same, would make things a lot easier for us. But I conclude that, because of what I said in the paragraph above, it would be a bad idea to lynch Chibo today, so we can find out tonight whether he is the scum-role we primarily suspect him to be, the SK. And Konowa is definately right, there has been so much opinion posted around about Almaster, that knowing his role could potentially tell us a lot about the game.

[J-Fox]

Al's at -2, you're at -1, and I definately agree to one of you who are voting him unvoting so we don't accidently do anything stupid.

[J-Fox]

Chibo is scum.
Haylen is scum.
J-Fox is probably scum.

Fuck off. No im not.

No need to get personal. But yes you are. And if you aren't, why don't you do something instead of just complaining about the situation repeatedly?

Nice try Almaster, you've got one more chance, since you didn't follow the rules. Still wanna vote yourself?

I didn't really want to the first time. However, I said I would, and I never bluff. Have it your way.

Unvote. Vote: AlmasterGM.

Oh f---

Are you serious?

If you flip town I hate you.

Agreed. Almaster you suck and are a fecking moron, especially if you are town. But even if you're scum/SK, your actions still cheapen the game, it devalues it for everyone, selfish p***k (self-censored, but I really wish I didn't have to, how pissed I am at you atm).

[J-Fox]

We haven't lost yet because, while the scum outnumber us, the SK and the scum are both still alive, so we've still yet to determine a clear winner.

Meaning if we lynch the SK today, we lose. Obviously lynching one of our own again will also result in almost certain loss, but we NEED to keep the SK alive now. Lynching Mafia is what we must do today, nothing else will do.

[J-Fox]

That sort of looked like a scum-slip from Bovine when he failed to mention Chibo could be scum (or could have been roleblocked as Pome pointed out) until he made an Edit, he simply assumed he's a Vig, why did you do this Bovine?

CB says the

Tracker

leading us to believe that he is the town tracker.

Well obviously he isn't going to say he's the Scum Tracker if he is.

I am at a complete loss as to why Chibo is so willing to follow Pome. Your logic that it's because the towns in such a precarious position completely falls flat if you consider that if Bovine is the town tracker, then we lose a PR if we lynch him. If we lynched Pome (not suggesting this btw, this is hypothetical), and he turns out VT, yes it would ofc be crippling for the town, but not as bad as losing a PR, we'd most likely be fucked if we lynch any member of the town today, but lynching a PR would fuck us over even worse than a VT. So why is it for the good of the town to blindly follow Pome? What makes him more likely to be telling the truth than Bovine?

vote: chibo sempai

you're scum or the sk.

I'm wondering why he didn't mention vig, only scum or SK.

well... three PRs for town, two have flipped, leaving one PR slot left, no?

The choice is between CB or chibo, and I've felt chibo was the SK for quite a bit, so...

No, we could have all 4 PR's, room for both Chibo and Bovine to be town that way... very quick to jump to conclusions are you not?

I trust the claim.

Why?? You've given no reasoning whatsoever for putting the town at such risk with rash tactics of putting someone at -1, where the scum could just pounce and win if you're wrong about Bovine. This is starting to make me deeply deeply suspicious that one of you or Pome are scum, and I'm suspecting you more at the moment for your ridiculous plans.

Forget I said anything about Pom. Whoever the VT and SK are, vote CB with me.

You're scum aren't you? You're WAAAY too sure that CB is scum.

[J-Fox]

1. Pome is female, not male

2. I said "no?" at the end because I didn't remember the set up, and I'm too lazy to check the OP. No conclusions made there except on a "if this is true, then" basis.

I'm more inclined to believe chibo is scum than Pome. If chibo flips vig, I'm willing to examine pome after (as well as CB if he doesn't die over the night).

Sorry Pome

Ray, this really should be a time you're willing to check such simple things as the OP, when the town is in such a critical and precarious position. Your apparent complacency (something that I'd expect a lot more from scum than town considering the scenario) is noted.

[J-Fox]

I don't often check the OP for things, as scum or town. I work off memory for it. Null tell.

But since you weren't sure (you put the "no?" at the end of your sentence after all), surely it would have been best, for such a crucial in-game piece of knowledge (if there were only 3 PR's, then we narrow down to 2 suspects for the day, a major breakthrough) to make sure by checking the OP before posting?

[J-Fox]

is it possible that there could be a cult victory?

there was a cult leader...had one day to get a recruit, he could of gotten a recruit that is now a leader, since Zach is now dead.

Personally I'm confused as to how a pro-town cult would even work. What would it even do or achieve?

[J-Fox]

What's your reasoning Pome?

Chibo has completely ignored my questions. Till he answers them

Vote: Chibo

(this will stay if your answers aren't satisfactory)

[J-Fox]

Nah I mean for putting Haylen before Ray and Ray before me Pome? (Sorry, didn't make that clear)

[J-Fox]

Aww dammit, nice one hun! Knew I should have trusted my gut feeling on you!

Good game all

I have no objections to QT going up.