Mini 851 - Bloodlust Mafia! - Game Over

[Zachrulez]

Who do you find the most suspicious going into day 2 Pome?

[Pomegranate]

I'm tired of Day 1. It's tl;dr

Unvote. Vote: Peabody.

RAWR! GO HAMMAR GO!

I agree with Zach. What do you mean you were "tired of D1"? I was also on Peabody's wagon, but I would have liked to hear a bit more from him before he was hammered.

Strong FoS: Almaster

. Vote may come soon depending on how Almaster reacts/explains himself.

[Pomegranate]

Who do you find the most suspicious going into day 2 Pome?

Didn't see that before my last post, but I think it's obvious... Almaster.

[Zachrulez]

Heh, looks like you already answered my question before seeing it.

[Zachrulez]

Also, I'm still not liking Haylen's lurking either.

[Pomegranate]

Also, I'm still not liking Haylen's lurking either.

Me niether, but she's V/LA right now.

[canadianbovine]

vote: chibo sempai

you're scum or the sk.

[J-Fox]

The night kills were surprising and could tell us something... So there were two night kills, and since we have the mafia and a serial killer, does this rule out the chance of a vigilante? That, or can one of the 3 possible killers (mafia, sk, vigilante) forego their night kill? Only Vigilante can do that right? unless the mafia could as well?

I'm pretty certain that if either of the scum or SK do not send in a night choice, either through choice or running out of time, they will not kill anyone, so it's possible for any of the killing factions (scum/SK/or possible Vig) to have not killed last night. I'd be surprised if scum missed their kill though. Can't really take a guess as to who did what, Looker's kill kinda looked scum-like, but why would they kill Looker? No offense to him, but he wasn't having the best of games imo.

Almaster, what the hell was that?? Please explain why it is in the towns best interests to end Day 1 as quickly as possible (thereby being able to take a lot less info than we could have been able to into the next day) by lynching a player you didn't even give the chance to claim his role? What if he'd been a power-role for example? If he were, that power would have been out of the game forever when that could have easily been prevented by a claim, which you didn't allow him to have, ALWAYS ALWAYS allow a player to at least claim before they get hammered, seriously, it's just common sense. I shall give you one posts chance to give me a good explaination to both my points, and if I feel it isn't good enough, my vote WILL be on you.

vote: chibo sempai

you're scum or the sk.

You're saying that with a lot of certainty, why?

[canadianbovine]

vote: chibo sempai

you're scum or the sk.

You're saying that with a lot of certainty, why?

glad you would ask. i guess it is time for me to reveal myself.

i am the

Tracker

and i tracked Chibo last night.

Chibo targeted Looker last night.

coincidentally, Looker is dead.

[Pomegranate]

Vote: Chibo

.

[J-Fox]

Oh I see, that is pretty likely he is one of those, won't vote yet though, will let Chibo have his say

FOS: Chibo

[AlmasterGM]

vote: chibo sempai

you're scum or the sk.

You're saying that with a lot of certainty, why?

glad you would ask. i guess it is time for me to reveal myself.

i am the

Tracker

and i tracked Chibo last night.

Chibo targeted Looker last night.

coincidentally, Looker is dead.

OWNED. Nice one, cb.

Vote: Chibo

Larger post coming later.

[Pomegranate]

Will be V/LA rest of today (probably) and tomorrow (for sure).

[Zachrulez]

Well... in light of the above tracker claim, I'm interested in what Chibo has to say for himself.

Unvote

[AlmasterGM]

The night kills were surprising and could tell us something... So there were two night kills, and since we have the mafia and a serial killer, does this rule out the chance of a vigilante? That, or can one of the 3 possible killers (mafia, sk, vigilante) forego their night kill? Only Vigilante can do that right? unless the mafia could as well?

It doesn't rule out the vig because there could be a mafia roleblocker. The vig could also choose to no-kill. It's extremely unlikely the SK or mafia chose not to act.

Why do you care if about ruling out the vig Chibo? Are you concerned about it?

Agreed, it doesn't really concern us.

Also, I will go insane if Alamaster is not scum, that hammer was just ridiculous, and done without bothering for a claim.

Looks like you're going insane then. Seriously, who cares? Nobody is going to unvote on a vanilla claim and he obviously wasn't cop, so nothing was going to help the situation. P.S.: read my explanation later down.

It seems to me that Looker was probably killed by the mafia; he appeared townie yet not particularly helpful.

Not seeing the connection. Don't the mafia want to kill people who are helpful to the town and not just "there"?

I think that there are probably only two killing roles/factions, so probably either Mafia+SK or Mafia+Vig. Rosso Carne was probably killed by either the Vig or the SK.

First, there could've been a roleblock, so don't say that. Second, Rosso has a history of being an incredibly awesome townie. Why would this NOT make him a prime target for the mafia?

I agree with Zach. What do you mean you were "tired of D1"? I was also on Peabody's wagon, but I would have liked to hear a bit more from him before he was hammered.

Strong FoS: Almaster. Vote may come soon depending on how Almaster reacts/explains himself.Strong FoS: Almaster. Vote may come soon depending on how Almaster reacts/explains himself.

I meant what I said - I was tired of Day 1. It was long, there was a lot of blah-blah about nothing, and if I wanted to go back and read it later, it would've been a huuuuge hassle. I wasn't getting a PR read on Peabody, he seemed scummy, and he also annoyed me. So I hammered. Sue me. There were 6 other people on that wagon and if they didn't think he was scum they shouldn't have let him go to L-3 or 2. If you want more explanation, look below.

Almaster, what the hell was that?? Please explain why it is in the towns best interests to end Day 1 as quickly as possible (thereby being able to take a lot less info than we could have been able to into the next day) by lynching a player you didn't even give the chance to claim his role?

I hate day one. I am in the camp that trying to "read" people is largely a crapshoot and that you really can't tell anything. Any good scum will be able to fake town, and there are plenty of townies who make moves that others consider to be bad (you'll get a nice case-in-point of this if you lynch me). I think that the best way to scumhunt is a) with power roles, b) voting analysis, and c) flips after night. Ending day 1 early helps all of these aspects.
Power roles: 1) they obviously don't activate until day two anyway and 2) the longer day one lasts, the higher the chance scum will get a read on a power role and take them out. By keeping day one as textually ambiguous as possible, everyone looks the same, thus maximizing the chance our power roles live.
Voting analysis / flips: 1) If day one lasts forever and turns into a giant 30-page long block of text, it's impossible to sort through. Everyone will have commented on everyone, and everyone will have changed their vote at least 5 times. It's impossible to determine where anyone's loyalties lie. By keeping things concise, people are boxed into a certain stance that they can't rescind. This makes it hard for scum to hide later in the game.

What if he'd been a power-role for example? If he were, that power would have been out of the game forever when that could have easily been prevented by a claim, which you didn't allow him to have, ALWAYS ALWAYS allow a player to at least claim before they get hammered, seriously, it's just common sense.

Like I said to Zach a little bit earlier: I got no power role read. If he had claimed cop/doctor, I would have just read it as an attempt to fish out the real power role and been even more suspicious of him. If he had claimed town, nobody would've unvoted (who unvotes on a vanilla claim?). There was no difference between letting him claim versus not.

Oh I see, that is pretty likely he is one of those, won't vote yet though, will let Chibo have his say FOS: Chibo

Um, why? There is nothing for Chibo to say. It would make zero sense for CB to fake claim being the tracker so we would mis-lynch Chibo. Trading chibo (new player, townie), for cb (experienced player, mafia) would be an AWFUL play.

The ONLY excuse is: "I'm Vig, and the SK got roleblocked." Not gonna buy it.

[ChiboSempai]

lol well even though Almaster said that he wouldn't buy it....

I have no choice but to roleclaim at this point.

I'm the vigilante.

If I didn't say this soon I would be guaranteed voted out soon. CB is right, I did target looker. After Day2 started I was extremely confused about the kills expecting 3, which is why I posted that and wanted to hear other people's take on it, then I realized there was the possibility of someone being roleblocked, which is the only excuse for there not being the 3rd kill - the one from the serial killer.

Further proof:

Look at the descriptions of the kills...

Russo's place was exploded or whatever, something not obvious as to who did it. More dramatic, very mafia-esque kill.
As for Looker, he was shot execution style in the back of the head, which is clearly the most appropriate way of being killed by the Vigilante.

If Looker had been killed by the SK then my guess is that it would have been something a bit more gruesome such as hacked and slashed to death in a bloodbath.

Reasoning for killing Looker:

Read back in the game and you will see that one of my first suspects was Looker. That already made him not sit well with me and think that something could be going on. He then later convinced me that I shouldn't vote for him then, and I didn't. People however became suspicious that I was working with Looker, which was 100% not the case. In the chance the Looker was mafia, I had to rid myself of that connection asap to clear suspicion on me. I'm a very important town role imo, and a valuable asset to the game.

If I had killed Looker and he ended up as town, then the whole connection between the two of us wouldn't have made sense, since we wouldn't have known who each other were, and if I were mafia, I would have known he was town and therefor no reason to defend him (which I wasn't even doing in the first place). Yes a townie would have died (though there was no way of 100% knowing he's town or mafia, or SK for the matter.

If Looker had been mafia then I could have roleclaimed to show that I killed Looker thus removing any suspicion that I was linked to him. I wasn't 100% sure if I was going to do it like this, however I'm being forced to roleclaim now and the Tracker showed that I killed him.

There is a very important development here now. Two people have had their roles ousted - CB being Tracker and myself being Vigilante. The only question is if CB is the mafia or town tracker, but that isn't too important atm. We also know that there is a roleblocker or jailkeeper.

The most important thing is that we now should know 100% who the SK is. Whoever the roleblocker is (are), say who you roleblocked. If there is only one roleblocker, then there you go, whoever that person targeted is the serial killer and we can take him out. If there are two, then we know that the SK is one of two people.

The town now has full power of killing two people per day/night cycle.

If you want me to further prove this, then wait an extra day, we will determine the top two people we think are mafia, and we'l vote one and I'll kill the other, or we can go for taking out the serial killer, or go for a mafia and a SK member.

[J-Fox]

Almaster, what the hell was that?? Please explain why it is in the towns best interests to end Day 1 as quickly as possible (thereby being able to take a lot less info than we could have been able to into the next day) by lynching a player you didn't even give the chance to claim his role?

I hate day one. I am in the camp that trying to "read" people is largely a crapshoot and that you really can't tell anything. Any good scum will be able to fake town, and there are plenty of townies who make moves that others consider to be bad (you'll get a nice case-in-point of this if you lynch me). I think that the best way to scumhunt is a) with power roles, b) voting analysis, and c) flips after night. Ending day 1 early helps all of these aspects.
Power roles: 1) they obviously don't activate until day two anyway and 2) the longer day one lasts, the higher the chance scum will get a read on a power role and take them out. By keeping day one as textually ambiguous as possible, everyone looks the same, thus maximizing the chance our power roles live.
Voting analysis / flips: 1) If day one lasts forever and turns into a giant 30-page long block of text, it's impossible to sort through. Everyone will have commented on everyone, and everyone will have changed their vote at least 5 times. It's impossible to determine where anyone's loyalties lie. By keeping things concise, people are boxed into a certain stance that they can't rescind. This makes it hard for scum to hide later in the game.

Yeah OK, that is true, the less posts, the less power role tells. But we can only win a game if we lynch scum. We can still win a game even if all our power roles die, but if even only 1 scum is left alive at the end of the game, the scum have won. Information-wise, yes, we are poorer on Day 1 than on any other day, but this certainly does not mean it is impossible to get some decently strong evidence (as strong as reads without backup from revealed roles and such can be anyway) on players first before deciding to lynch them, rather than simply jumping all over the first error a player makes, or the first significant bandwagon after the RV-stage.

Who says the scum are gd players anyway? There's a very gd chance we also have some inexperienced or bad scum as well. The ones that may not be able to do a good town-act. Overall, it really is better to have quite a lot of posts to be able to determine as best as possible who is scum and not, and, of course up to a reasonable point (which is way before just 18 pages imo), the best way to do that is with plenty of evidence from posts and vote counts and such, things that can only be done in the day. From posts and votes we can work out connections between players, and so once one scum falls, we can try and work out the other scum from there. That is always an effective tactic.

What if he'd been a power-role for example? If he were, that power would have been out of the game forever when that could have easily been prevented by a claim, which you didn't allow him to have, ALWAYS ALWAYS allow a player to at least claim before they get hammered, seriously, it's just common sense.

Like I said to Zach a little bit earlier: I got no power role read. If he had claimed cop/doctor, I would have just read it as an attempt to fish out the real power role and been even more suspicious of him. If he had claimed town, nobody would've unvoted (who unvotes on a vanilla claim?). There was no difference between letting him claim versus not.

Your read could very easily be wrong, it's always better to wait for an actual claim rather than just chance out on a read in case you end up getting it wrong and lynching the Tracker or someone else quite important.

If he did claim a Power Role, and he was simply fishing, for reasons stated above, it is well worth it to sacrifice a power role for a scum. I'm sorry, but your reasons for ending the day early without letting Peabody have a chance to claim are completely illogical in my opinion, and are quite a big scumtell in my eyes.

Oh I see, that is pretty likely he is one of those, won't vote yet though, will let Chibo have his say FOS: Chibo

Um, why? There is nothing for Chibo to say. It would make zero sense for CB to fake claim being the tracker so we would mis-lynch Chibo. Trading chibo (new player, townie), for cb (experienced player, mafia) would be an AWFUL play.

The ONLY excuse is: "I'm Vig, and the SK got roleblocked." Not gonna buy it.

It is possible that one of the targets was targeted by the possible Jailkeeper as well too.

Lookers kill does look a little Vig-like to be fair to Chibo, it is still quite likely he is scum, and we certainly shouldn't take the evidence from death scenes too seriously, it could easily be the case the mod is trying to trick us in that very way, perhaps to make things a bit easier for the SK for example. I want to question him a bit further first though to make sure. Especially after yesterday, this is likely the best thing to do before jumping too rashly to conclusions and irreversable lynches.

Chibo, if you are the Vig, why did you choose to kill on Night 1? Rather than wait a bit for firmer evidence than Day 1 reads on players to be more certain. You have to remember that, just like lynches, Vigkills are irreversable, once a player is dead, they are dead, no bringing them back.

[canadianbovine]

chibo, i find it strange that

a) you use the flavor text in your defense.

and

b) you killed looker so people wouldnt think you guys are a team?

can you tell me just who had a suspicion that you and looker were possible buddies?

[ChiboSempai]

Rosso first brings up the possibility of it here: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 32#1874632

Rosso tells everyone that a scum pair in the game is Looker and I: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 45#1874645

RayFrost doesn't throw out the idea or elaborate on Looker and I and instead wonders who the 3rd mafia is: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 49#1874649

Rosso also said somewhere (couldn't find the post yet) that saying the style I could have been playing bussing as a mafia member was legit, and likely meant further that the two of us were mafia.

We have multiple people saying how Rosso could be a valuable asset to the town throughout some pages (which is likely why the mafia targeted him), no one disagreeing with him, one person wondering about it further, Rosso and RayFrost still alive, suspicion already cast on me at many points in D1... I had to clear my name. I feel that if both Looker and I were still in it then Rosso could easily bring this all back up and convince people of it - mixing with everyones past suspicions of me and there you go, town loses it's vigilante. I can't let that happen.

[ChiboSempai]

EBWOP

also, what do you mean by flavor text?

[canadianbovine]

http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php ... lavor_text

[ChiboSempai]

Yea I already read that, but don't see how that ties to my post at all.

[J-Fox]

Seems like an overly paranoid reason to take someone else out of the game entirely. Just because one person who is held in high regard believes you are someone else are linked hardly means you will definately be lynched tomorrow. Who says Looker wouldn't have been the one lynched? Or someone else would get a much better reason against them?

Am I right in saying you did this purely for that reason, and not because you had any strong suspicions that Looker was scum?

[canadianbovine]

you said that the flavor text in lookers death is more "vig style"

It is important to note that flavor should not clue player's into others roles. "The pretty pink pony" should have just as much of a chance of being mafia as "The monster under the bed".

[canadianbovine]

Further proof:

Look at the descriptions of the kills...

Russo's place was exploded or whatever, something not obvious as to who did it. More dramatic, very mafia-esque kill.
As for Looker, he was shot execution style in the back of the head, which is clearly the most appropriate way of being killed by the Vigilante.

If Looker had been killed by the SK then my guess is that it would have been something a bit more gruesome such as hacked and slashed to death in a bloodbath.