Mini 839 -- Mafia Invasion! (Game Over)

[Vi]

@Sotty7: The reason for your vote on me, if I understand you correctly, is that I took an ambiguous stance toward pops' claim. If so, you are correct. I have shown you my arguments for and against pops' claim and therefore why I did not know what to do with it.
Therefore this is where I would object.

So “no objection” and no mention of your hammer intentions makes me think you believed his claim when he made it.

I can see how you came to this conclusion, but it's not accurate.
My advice to Cruciare later was based on him having a decided opinion of pops' claim, whereas I didn't.

[Cruciare]

Several people now have said they find Cruciare scummy in some way. Maybe I am missing something. I'm willing to review my stance if something solid is brought forward.

There's something questionable about you hugging me like this. Isn't it a great coincidence that James said something about liking my approach here? D=

[Porkens]

Porkens is the most scummy other player. He

behaves erratically

and he seems more interested in stirring than hunting for scum. His disorganizations seem like a way to make noise rather than find scum.

this is where "erratic" came from.



I'll talk about crucial when im more rested, but the post i mentioned seemed all over the place.

[popsofctown]

@porkens

You don't have to defend yourself from my "case". It's not even a case. I was asked for secondary suspicions.

TMJ blood is what i want and all i want.

[Sotty7]

@Sotty7: The reason for your vote on me, if I understand you correctly, is that I took an ambiguous stance toward pops' claim. If so, you are correct. I have shown you my arguments for and against pops' claim and therefore why I did not know what to do with it.
Therefore this is where I would object.

So “no objection” and no mention of your hammer intentions makes me think you believed his claim when he made it.

I can see how you came to this conclusion, but it's not accurate.
My advice to Cruciare later was based on him having a decided opinion of pops' claim, whereas I didn't.

Basically, I think you believed the claim while at the same time encouraged another player to keep their vote on Pops. Those two things don't add up to me.

Several people now have said they find Cruciare scummy in some way. Maybe I am missing something. I'm willing to review my stance if something solid is brought forward.

There's something questionable about you hugging me like this. Isn't it a great coincidence that James said something about liking my approach here? D=

No it has nothing to do with that. We just have the same eye I guess. When I read the game I thought your approach was good. You do have that style that could be dangerous as scum in my opinion, but for now I am satisfied with your posting. Lately a few people have been saying you are scummy. I don't see it and want them to be more specific.

[Vi]

Porkens is the most scummy other player. He

behaves erratically

and he seems more interested in stirring than hunting for scum. His disorganizations seem like a way to make noise rather than find scum.

this is where "erratic" came from.

Speaking frankly, I wouldn't take pops as a clear indicator of the case against anyone.
In other words I suspect you're misrepresenting your perception.

Basically, I think you believed the claim while at the same time encouraged another player to keep their vote on Pops. Those two things don't add up to me.

I'm assuming this means we're at an impasse, since my rebuttal would just be a copy/paste of Vi 300 (

Doctors? THIS! IS! LYNCHEM!!

).

[Sotty7]

An impasse sounds about right for now.

[Porkens]

Naturally, since I can't compete with you physically and you are no match for my brains.

[Vi]

You're that smart?

[DeathRowKitty]

I'm not seeing the case on Vi...or Cruciare.

DeathRowKitty

You keep saying that you don't want to lynch the claimed doc, but you haven't done a whole lot to push your case on Jammer either. Why is that?

There's not enough for a strong case on him. Based on what we have right now, I find pops to be a better lynch than jammer, claimed doc or not.

Pops' play as of late has been very odd, to say the least. To me it looks like scum trying to get out of a lynch. He's used
1) defeatism
2) AtE and AtV (Appeal to Vi)
3) diversion tactics

1)Defeatism isn't stricly a scum tell. Townies also sometimes use defeatism out of the frustration of being close to lynch as town. However, his defeatism didn't seem like townie defeatism. It seemed more like scum trying to make it look like townie defeatism. His posts (to me) gave the feeling of trying to hold his doctor claim over us while still sounding hopeless.
2) I personally think that townies sometimes have the urge to appeal to emotion when all else fails, but only scum should have the urge to appeal to emotion when the situation is far from hopeless. In fact, he was pops painted his situation as hopeless even after people started unvoting him. It's only natural for scum to have an exaggerated view of how bad the situation really is.
3) I guess he almost had to try to divert suspicion, even if he's doctor, but not the way he did. He's been saying a lot that TMJ needs to by lynched, while giving the feeling of just saying "lynch the person with the next most suspicion/votes."

Also I

really

hope this was a joke because if not that's an awful post for a townie (and especially a doctor) to make.

At best

, it was defeatism and an AtE.

[DeathRowKitty]

EBWOP:

In fact,

he was

pops painted his situation as hopeless even after people started unvoting him.

[jammer]

Cut by jammer: Nice to see that you don't have many thoughts beyond the bare minimum

Good to know you appreciate my play.

The TMJ vs. pops business. Let me elaborate.

Pops is acting scummy however you turn it. But he is a claimed doc, if real he might very well be handy. Altough not a comfirmable claim.
If his claim is fake, that is likely going to bite him in the ass(as porkens said) at some point.


TMJ is well, TMJ. Looking at it, I doubt you could draw a solid conclusion out of him later. Is it part of his playing style or is it real scummy behaviour. If we don´t lynch him today, I think we are likely to lynch him at some point later in the game.

I am pretty much voting TMJ over pops becouse of pops doc claim, yes.

[imaginality]

2) I personally think that townies sometimes have the urge to appeal to emotion when all else fails, but only scum should have the urge to appeal to emotion when the situation is far from hopeless. In fact, he was pops painted his situation as hopeless even after people started unvoting him. It's only natural for scum to have an exaggerated view of how bad the situation really is.

Additionally if he is genuinely town and genuinely felt his situation was as hopeless as he depicted it to be, I'd have thought he would have claimed doc earlier than he did. Rather than a few pages of "OMG I'm doomed" stuff before the doc claim.

[sigma]

In case it isn't clear, I agree with DRK and imaginality about pops. imaginality made a great point in his post #210 -- the circumstances around pops' claim were very strange. I'd recommend anyone who wants to understand the case on pops should read this post.

I really feel like lynching TMJ is a cop-out at this point. I can see the arguments for lynching him, but I really feel like we've caught scum with Y.C/pops and would hate to see him survive the day at this point, honestly.

[DeathRowKitty]

It's just past 8PM for me right now and I'm not sure I'll have a chance to check this game before deadline tomorrow. I doubt I'm the only one in this timezone. We need to agree to a lynch soon . I still say pops should be our lynch. I would also agree to a jammer lynch and probably a TMJ lynch if it would avoid a no lynch.

[Vi]

At the end of the Day - no pun intended - I'm going to go with a pops vote. Queue now to accuse Vi of scandalous changing of mind.

On the plus side, we don't have a single uncontested wagon to end the Day, for those who were concerned about it earlier.

Vote: popsofctown

(L-2)

U. Vote Count

pops (5) - TMJ, Cruciare, sigma, imaginality, Vi
TMJ (4) - Col.Cathart, pops, Porkens, jammer
Otherwise wasting their votes: Sotty7, DeathRowKitty, afatchic

I'm surprised to see that DRK isn't voting anyone, especially after that last post.

[Cruciare]

In about 10 hours, I will probably lose access until after the deadline. Those of you who are currently not voting either TMJ or Pops should put your vote on one of them

as soon as possible

. I'm pretty sure we're not gonna be lynching anyone apart from those two. I dread to have an L-1 at deadline because my vote - or anyone else's - was on the other guy's wagon.

By the way, I agree with the two posts above this one. I definitely endorse a Pops lynch over a TMJ one. I'd even rather lynch Jammer than TMJ to be honest, but that's not happening today. Whatever logic it is that prevents you from lynching a possible doctor today just so he can be nightkilled tonight, flush it down the toilet. If Pops is scum, we would lose a lot more by not lynching him today. Please guys, we need to hang some scum here. Vote Pops. Yes we can! [/shamelessappeal]

[Cruciare]

Right, by two posts I meant 313 and 314. Curse you Vi and your lightning cut.

[Vi]

Yes we can! [/shamelessappeal]

No. Nooooo. Nooooooooooooooo. N+o^∞.

[Sotty7]

Ugh.

Unvote, Vote: TMJ

[DeathRowKitty]

I'm surprised to see that DRK isn't voting anyone, especially after that last post.

I'll be around another hour or two and I figured I'd wait to vote to see if anyone tried to make too strong a push for either candidate without strong reason (trying to save a scumbuddy). I would've voted earlier if I'd realized TMJ had 4 votes.

Vote: pops

[Vi]

Ugh.

Do you think either option is any good?
(If this isn't what your "ugh" is about, please elaborate.)

I figured I'd wait to vote to see if anyone tried to make too strong a push for either candidate without strong reason (trying to save a scumbuddy). I would've voted earlier if I'd realized TMJ had 4 votes.

...are you telling me that you were trying to gambit by not having your vote on someone for over 150 posts?

U. Vote Count

pops (6) - TMJ, Cruciare, sigma, imaginality, Vi, DRK
TMJ (5) - Col.Cathart, pops, Porkens, jammer, Sotty7
Still useless: afatchic

I'm not sure if it's what Sotty was talking about, but... ugh. I see two problems with this arrangement.

[Sotty7]

Ugh is because I do not like this Pops lynch. Also because we have a split town almost and I don't like the idea of me having to hammer Pops

just

to get a lynch today.

I would say TMJ is a good lynch. Better than Pops anyhow.

[DeathRowKitty]

...are you telling me that you were trying to gambit by not having your vote on someone for over 150 posts?

The "gambit" was only recent. For most of that time, I just wasn't ready to vote.

[Vi]

Ugh is because I do not like this Pops lynch.

Why not?