PookyTheMagicalBear: 3 (iamausername, Kmd4390, populartajo)
VP Baltar: 3 (ekiM, SerialClergyman, Thesp)
Kmd4390: 2 (elvis_knits, roflcopter)
charter: 1 (zu_Faul)
Not Voting: 4 (charter, PookyTheMagicalBear, VP Baltar, Yosarian2)
Not much has happened to change my scum list. I misinterpreted Xyl's reasonless push on me, but Oj flipping town isn't much of a surprise. I still say the sheer ignorance given to the points I presented against ekiM yesterday is a strong indicator that he is scum. Even though I directly asked for people's opinions on what I presented and if they were or were not valid arguments, I received essentially nothing but crickets.Yos wrote:VP, who do you think is scum, and why?
Three out of those five persons have emerged today with no desire more than to string me up without any discussion because "OMG OJ AND XYL WERE TOWN". From my perspective, this looks like a calculated move to hurry through this day.VP wrote:ekiM
IAAUN
SC
Yos
Thesp
I'm scum with VP? Really? That's what you're going with?PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:mostly cuz after yesterday you'd expect the push to be for baltar due to the whole gooncop pointing at baltar all day yesterday. instead iam opens up with this comment about how VP baltar is still scum then pushes at me with a vote. a kind of draw up anger at this lousy lurking bear in the corner while covering his ass in case baltar gets run up from yesterday's stuff and promptly lynch. then his partner kmd blindly jumps in after him.
thats probly the best reason for voting me while implying baltar's scumminess in light of what happened yesterday.
Note how the bolded does not say "Pooky needs to die". I wasn't saying "Pooky is lurking, let's lynch him instead!", I was saying "Pooky is lurking, let's threaten to lynch him, that'll get him to actually contribute!" And guess what, it's working!iamausername wrote:rofl and VP are still scum, but Pooky has given us absolutely nothing, andthat needs to stop.
This is true, except the people on it aren't the scummier people. Plus look at the scenario. The biggest wagon around that time was me with 5 votes, which was essentially a lurker wagon. It never really looked like getting a lynch. There was some movement on ekiM but again, there wasn't much momentum. So the town is scattered and noone really knows what to do. Then someone obviously protown makes a long and convincing case about someone and pressures people to join the wagon. That will always get votes. That's the best way I've got to explain it. But I think explaining how that wagon with that momentum and those people pushing it still failed to get a lynch if VP is town is a LOT harder.elvis wrote: And I am still wondering about wagon speed (which made me think VP was likely town before).
No, VP's vanilla claim makes lynching him a lower risk, just like it did with bab. One difference, though, that now that we're down to 13 people with only 4 or 5 scum, it has become pretty crucial to lynch scum today; there is no longer such a thing as a safe lynch in this game.SerialClergyman wrote:iam, if it's working, and the vote on Pooky is unnecessary, I suggest the VP wagon is the place where all the cool kids go to hang.
So as far as I can tell, rofl, yos2 and elvis all said that claiming vanilla wasn't worthwhile for Bab but are yet to do much about VP's vanilla claim. Worth noting. (despite howls of protest about slightly different circumstances etc)
I can't believe you're fishing for ROFL's role, AGAIN.It's also worth noting that one of the most likely roles for rofl to claim after his softclaiming bonanza yesterday just flipped and it wasn't him. I reject the idea that he's vanilla or otherwise protown without role info and was just absuing a softclaim to try to get people to not vote someone he had a good read on. So he's on my scumlist with Yos2.
BTW, that is not really true; lurking was not the main reason people were voting you yesterday, IMHO, just a small contributing factor.Plus look at the scenario. The biggest wagon around that time was me with 5 votes, which was essentially a lurker wagon.
Oh cool, so it was fine before but not now. That doesn't make me link scum you to scum baltar at all.No, VP's vanilla claim makes lynching him a lower risk, just like it did with bab. One difference, though, that now that we're down to 13 people with only 4 or 5 scum, it has become pretty crucial to lynch scum today; there is no longer such a thing as a safe lynch in this game.
Meh, time for us to grow up on this point. Rofl needs to be scruitinised and I don't care if people are saying I'm role fishing for doing it.I can't believe you're fishing for ROFL's role, AGAIN.
I never raised that question. What makes you bring up a possible breadcrumb?Putting aside for the moment the question of if rofl was breadcrumbing or not; there are a lot of possible roles listed in the mod's post that could tell if someone is innocent, AND GOON COP IS NOT ONE OF THEM. If you think he was breadcrumbing an innocent, then I can't imagine how you could have thought goon cop was "one of the most likely roles for him to claim"; a goon cop CAN'T GET an innocent result, just a guilty one (since a "not goon" result is clearly not an innocent result).
SerialClergyman wrote:Oh cool, so it was fine before but not now. That doesn't make me link scum you to scum baltar at all.No, VP's vanilla claim makes lynching him a lower risk, just like it did with bab. One difference, though, that now that we're down to 13 people with only 4 or 5 scum, it has become pretty crucial to lynch scum today; there is no longer such a thing as a safe lynch in this game.
If you want to make a case on him, please do so. But you continuing to try to pry a role out of him, especally with that kind of bad logic, is just anti-town and scummy. If you want to find out his role, then make a case on him, get him to lynch -1, and then ask him to claim; trying to get someone who you think is hinting at a pro-town power role to claim when there's not even a wagon on him is INCREDIBLY scummy.Meh, time for us to grow up on this point. Rofl needs to be scruitinised and I don't care if people are saying I'm role fishing for doing it.I can't believe you're fishing for ROFL's role, AGAIN.
Well, the scum wouldn't actually know if rofl is a power role or not yet. Hence the fishing.Not to mention I'd love to hear the scum motivation for me killing Ojanen if I was scum concerned with rofl's role. In fact, I'd love to hear the motivation for scum to kill Ojanen instead of rofl if rofl was a pro-town PR.
He didn't claim a role. He shouldn't, unless he has information HE thinks the town needs to have today, or unless he's going to get lynched if he dosn't claim. Those are the only cases a pro-town person should claim.And even aside from THAT, it's hardly surprising that you don't want rofl's claimed role to have any scruitny, because as long as it doesn't you're safe from votes.
Um...bull shit. That's exactly what you were talking about when you kept saying he was "softclaiming".I never raised that question. What makes you bring up a possible breadcrumb?Putting aside for the moment the question of if rofl was breadcrumbing or not; there are a lot of possible roles listed in the mod's post that could tell if someone is innocent, AND GOON COP IS NOT ONE OF THEM. If you think he was breadcrumbing an innocent, then I can't imagine how you could have thought goon cop was "one of the most likely roles for him to claim"; a goon cop CAN'T GET an innocent result, just a guilty one (since a "not goon" result is clearly not an innocent result).
Yes, we all know you wanted him to claim yesterday.But even if I did, that's the whole point of why a softclaim was crap and should have been dealt with yesterday.
Why? Did you see the variety of possible mafia roles in the second post? What % of the scum team do you think is goons?While a goon cop can't clear someone, I'd definitely want to indicate that I had a non-goon result on someone were I that kind of cop.
Not at all. A goon cop is something like 1/3 to half as useful as a regular cop; it can't get confirmed innocents at all, which is the main point of a regular cop, and it's less likely to get a guilty as well. I would be surprised if that was our only info role in this game.But a goon cop flip also makes things like an ACTUAL cop less likely to exist.
It's not the main reason.SerialClergyman wrote:If the main reason to dislike charter is because how hard he was pushing for Xyl and derailing VP, that only makes sense for scumcharter if VP is scum. Otherwise he could have just hammered or kept quiet.
I agree that was a bad argument from pooky.zu wrote:Pooky has done nothing to easy my suspicions. His argument against VP Baltar is: "Well, Goon Cop voted him."
What I said was that if you think a person is scum and want to lynch them, a vanilla claim should not change that. The vanilla claim is not what changed my mind about VP.Serial wrote:So as far as I can tell, rofl, yos2 and elvis all said that claiming vanilla wasn't worthwhile for Bab but are yet to do much about VP's vanilla claim. Worth noting. (despite howls of protest about slightly different circumstances etc)
There's more than one role that could have that type of info, and actually there is no limit on number of players with the same role. So I don't see how Ojanen flipping goon cop makes rofl look any better or worse.serial wrote:It's also worth noting that one of the most likely roles for rofl to claim after his softclaiming bonanza yesterday just flipped and it wasn't him.
Actually most of my top suspects were on VP.serial wrote:This is true, except the people on it aren't the scummier people.
This is horrible. We've had no docs die this game, so scum are likely trying to avoid having their kill blocked. So they don't want to target anyone who is likely to draw a protect. And anyone softclaiming info is likely to get a protect. So they have to kill someone who is not likely to get a protect, but is looking pro-town or unattackable -- and Ojanen fits that bill.Serial wrote:Not to mention I'd love to hear the scum motivation for me killing Ojanen if I was scum concerned with rofl's role. In fact, I'd love to hear the motivation for scum to kill Ojanen instead of rofl if rofl was a pro-town PR.
Really?serial wrote:But a goon cop flip also makes things like an ACTUAL cop less likely to exist.
anything really. i'd particularly love if you'd stop stringing out the wait for your votecount analysis, which you began touting during the end of the day yesterday and we still haven't seen anything of.Kmd4390 wrote:Rofl, what haven't I done that you'd like me to?
you signed up for a new large gameKmd4390 wrote:Rofl, as soon as I have time to go through the entire game and do my own vote counts, I'll do it.