/in-Vitational Game 4 (Game Over!)

[mith]

Vote Count:

7 to lynch.

PookyTheMagicalBear: 3 (iamausername, Kmd4390, populartajo)
Kmd4390: 2 (elvis_knits, roflcopter)
VP Baltar: 1 (SerialClergyman)

Not Voting: 7 (charter, ekiM, PookyTheMagicalBear, Thesp, VP Baltar, Yosarian2, zu_Faul)

[Yosarian2]

We just had a massive derailing of a wagon, running up Xyl who is now confirmed town led by roflcopter and yet when day breaks on D3 he's back to his kmd case and it's like nothing happened.

I'm not sure that's a logical case, until we know VP's alignment. I mean, I could just as easily say that the wagon on you came very close to a lynch and then was massively derailed by the VP Baller wagon.

It's especially iffy since your case against VP seems to be assuming that ROFL is scum, and I tend to doubt that.

[SerialClergyman]

Well, the similarities are pretty shoddy. There wasn't much chance of me being lynched, I didn't claim, I was never at l-1 and the wagon on baltar had at it's root a strong case from a then obvtown and now confirmed gooncop player.

But say baltar was town. That would mean the scum would be perfectly happy wih his lynch, yet somehow momentum on his wagon gets sappd and a counter wagon on a now confirmed town gets pushed to a lynch. I think that's simply unlikely. The scum had no reason not to let vp get lynched if he was town. I'm pretty sure the switch to xyl was a derailing. I've done the same thing myself as scum.

But even if you ignore all that, what's wrong with a vp lynch? His alignment is crucial to analysing yesterday's wagon, he's been scummy this game, two protown players wanted him lynched yesterday, he claimed vanilla - I think he's a perfect lynch under almost any criteria, yes?

Iam - sorry, I'm posting on my phone but I nonetheless thould have checked the setup post.

[charter]

I am lost. Going to reread.

[ekiM]

Vote: VP Baltar

[zu_Faul]

Vote: Charter

FoS: Pooky

No time for more right now.

[elvis_knits]

So all three players voting me either have solid scumreads on TWO other players or a decent idea, but are choosing to hatevote a noncontributor without even explaining what they want me to contribute?

This is a good point. However, Pooky, we have gotten the most out of you as a result of the votes on you. Basically, you do deserve pressure because you've been lurking.

And saying that people voting you is unfair because they don't even tell you what they want you to say -- that argument is BS. You know what people want. They want you to tell us who you think is scum. They want you to play the game.

---

SerialClergy's argument that we have to lynch VP Baltar to be able to analyze his wagon is bad. That's a bad reason to lynch a person. Whoever we lynch will give us information, whoever we lynch will give us the benefit of being able to analyze the wagon. It's a bad, bad reason to push a lynch on a person, solely for "information."

---

I like Zu's vote on Charter. I am tempted to go there. Mostly charter attacked Xyl yesterday, which might have been in earnest, so I don't fault him for that. But he made a big stink about the VP Baltar wagon, yet didn't really attack or fault anyone because of it. If he was so incensed by the VP wagon, he should have been telling us who was sucm on the wagon and questioning/attacking those people too. Yet, he was not. That behavior does not make sense to me. Actually, I think he attacked me the hardest of anyone on the wagon, and I was the one who unvoted and put a stop to it. IMHO, I was the least scummy, yet I was Charter's biggest target. He didn't attack the people who kept pushing for the VP lynch, did he? Shouldn't they be scummier to him??

[elvis_knits]

Updated list for discussional purposes and whatnot

BadGuys:
kmd
charter
ekiM
iamausernam

Not Sure:
Serial
VP
Pooks (replacing alexhans)

GoodGuys:
Elvis
rofl
Tajo
Thesp
Zu
Yos

[VP Baltar]

But even if you ignore all that, what's wrong with a vp lynch? His alignment is crucial to analysing yesterday's wagon, he's been scummy this game, two protown players wanted him lynched yesterday, he claimed vanilla - I think he's a perfect lynch under almost any criteria, yes?

That's quite possibly the dumbest thing I have heard in awhile. What analysis does it provide if I flip town?

[Kmd4390]

Hmm. The way my top suspects (ekiM, Pooky, Yos) are spread out in EK's scumlist kind of bothers me.

[elvis_knits]

Hmm. The way my top suspects (ekiM, Pooky, Yos) are spread out in EK's scumlist kind of bothers me.

Why?

[Kmd4390]

Scum tend to spread their buddies around in those lists.

[SerialClergyman]

SerialClergy's argument that we have to lynch VP Baltar to be able to analyze his wagon is bad. That's a bad reason to lynch a person. Whoever we lynch will give us information, whoever we lynch will give us the benefit of being able to analyze the wagon. It's a bad, bad reason to push a lynch on a person, solely for "information."

Bad summary of the argument, more like.

My argument to lynch Baltar is for ALL the reasons he should have been lynched yesterday (which you voted for, coincidentally)
PLUS the fact that it's hard to explain the shift away from him to a different townie if VP is town
PLUS the fact the wagon is now more sound due to the flips of those that were pushing it
PLUS the info we'll gain from it, and it specifically. Unlike a wagon on any other person, it is unique in that we have not just today's wagon to look at after a flip, but yesterdays wagon and the shift away from it towards Xyl.

Also, your own reasoning of 'scum or vanilla' STILL applies.

This should be our thinking:
1)BAB is scummy
2)BAB claimed vanilla
3)BAB is either vanilla or scum.
4)If we lynch BAB, we either lynch scum or vanilla, therefore little damage to town, or huge advantage. As a bonus, no power roles have to claim today.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

i think kmd/iam/baltar are nice picks for scum.

and charter.

but mostly because he's charter.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

i'd put baltar higher than either kmd or IAM on the list of "i think are scum" tho.

mostly cuz after yesterday you'd expect the push to be for baltar due to the whole gooncop pointing at baltar all day yesterday. instead iam opens up with this comment about how VP baltar is still scum then pushes at me with a vote. a kind of draw up anger at this lousy lurking bear in the corner while covering his ass in case baltar gets run up from yesterday's stuff and promptly lynch. then his partner kmd blindly jumps in after him.

thats probly the best reason for voting me while implying baltar's scumminess in light of what happened yesterday.

ofc this whole line of conjecture depends on baltar's scumness, which I find quite likely.

[Thesp]

I'm frustrated with myself for not finding the time to fight the Xylthixlm wagon harder yesterday.

I'm more than a little surprised to see VP Baltar getting almost no real attention or votes, particularly with how yesterday went down. Sure, there's a substantial chance that Pooky's scum because we haven't seen hardly anything townie out of him (vig? where were you last night on either of these two?), yet there's still a greater chance VP Baltar is scum. Things from yesterday haven't gone away, moreso when two significant people on his wagon yesterday have turned up pro-town, and one of them was a friggin' goon cop who waffled on his initial vote, then went full-force on a VP Baltar vote. Can someone explain why VP Baltar isn't strung from his neck until he is dead yet?

Vote: VP Baltar.

[Kmd4390]

Pooky, so I'm scum for what, exactly? Voting you?

[elvis_knits]

My argument to lynch Baltar is for ALL the reasons he should have been lynched yesterday (which you voted for, coincidentally)
PLUS the fact that it's hard to explain the shift away from him to a different townie if VP is town

PLUS the fact the wagon is now more sound due to the flips of those that were pushing it
PLUS the info we'll gain from it, and it specifically. Unlike a wagon on any other person, it is unique in that we have not just today's wagon to look at after a flip, but yesterdays wagon and the shift away from it towards Xyl.

I've been thinking about this and trying to give it a fair shot, even though I am resistant to it because I dislike some of the reasons. I like the first two points (which I bolded), but I think the second two are bad. And I am still wondering about wagon speed (which made me think VP was likely town before).

Well, I think point 2 is sort of WIFOM, since wagons can shift for a number of reasons, and we don't really know that the wagon on VP shifted because scum were trying to save their buddy. I mean, the wagon on you, Serial, shifted to VP. If VP is town, do we automatically assume that you are scum?

BUT, I do think that point 2, even though it is WIFOM, has at least a decent chance of being valid. The reason I am sort of thinking it may be correct is that I don't like charter, and I hold him pretty responsible for changing momentum from VP to Xyl. Which would strengthen your point. If VP flips scum, I would say charter is a likely buddy.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Kmd, don't act dense, I said perfectly well why I think you're scum.

you're scum for voting me WHILE at the same time saying that Baltar is scum.

Because of everything that happened yesterday, Baltar is the obvious lynch, there should be tons of heat coming down on him, instead today starts and you begin by saying something to the equivalent of

"Well guys, Baltar is a scumbag, but hey look! a giant elephant in the room that doesn't TALK! let's lynch HIM instead!"

Which imo only makes sense if you're a scumbag trying to divert from Baltar, trying to stroke the fires of blind hate at a lurker so that the town forgets about Baltar while simultaneously covering your ass with your statement in case the town ignores you and lynches baltar anyway.

then you could be like, "well I did say that guy Baltar is scum".

[Kmd4390]

Tell me where I said VP was scum.

[elvis_knits]

um KMD,

iam said:

"
Vote: PookyTheMagicalBear

rofl and VP are still scum, but Pooky has given us absolutely nothing, and that needs to stop. "


and you said in the next post:

"Vote Pooky

I agree with Iamasarian2. "

which I thought meant you read his post and agreed with it, including the part about rofl and VP being scum.

[Kmd4390]

Let me quote the part I agree with.

Pooky has given us absolutely nothing, and that needs to stop.

[elvis_knits]

And why should we believe that you only agreed with that part when you didn't specify the first time?

[Yosarian2]

(vig? where were you last night on either of these two?)

I wish people would stop saying stuff like this. That basically makes you the second person to claim "not vig", which is not a good thing for the town here.

Things from yesterday haven't gone away, moreso when two significant people on his wagon yesterday have turned up pro-town, and one of them was a friggin' goon cop who waffled on his initial vote, then went full-force on a VP Baltar vote.

I thought VP Baltar was scummy yesterday, but I'm really uncomfortable with the line of reasoning people are using. They're basically one of the below:

1. "There are two people who were attacking him yesterday who we now know are pro-town!" Translation: the scum killed someone last night who was attacking VP Balter yesterday, except no one seems to want to put it that way, I guess because if they did then it would be obvious that it was a weak WIFOM argument.

2. "A goon cop was voting him!" Do you really think she had a guilty on him? It seems pretty clear to me that she didn't, reading her posts. She didn't "waffle" on her initial vote, she came out hard against eikM and stayed there for a long time.

That being said, I'm really not happy with VP's level of contribution this game; he hasn't been lurking, but he hasn't really been scumhunting much either. VP, who do you think is scum, and why?

[Kmd4390]

EK, I didn't feel the need to specify. I didn't assume that "I agree" means "I agree with absolutely everything".