Mini 839 -- Mafia Invasion! (Game Over)

[popsofctown]

I don't have to. It'll change on it's own.

[Vi]

pops, has it occurred to you that not being useless is pro-Town?

Also, I second Porkens 172.

[imaginality]

There are four logical possibilities:

1. pops is pro-town and is doctor
2. pops is pro-town and is not doctor
3. pops is anti-town and is doctor
4. pops is anti-town and is not doctor

It's fair to say that 2 is fairly unlikely.

I asked about the possibility of scum doctor because I wanted to know if 3 is possible in this game. So when I looked back at YC and pops's play, I could decide if it fits more with 1, 3 or 4.

For example, a scum doctor might be less concerned about coming under pressure if they felt their doc claim was unlikely to be counterclaimed (given that all else being equal, two docs are somewhat less likely than one), as compared with a scum who is purely bullshitting with his doc claim.

pops himself mentioned in his first post that he thought YC's play was more like that of a godfather. That's obviously a bit different but that kind of 'slightly fearless' play is what I was thinking of.

Anyhow.

Unvote

Whatever conclusion I come to re. 1/3/4 above, I don't want to lynch pops today in the absence of a counterclaim.

[popsofctown]

*sighs*
Vi is right. I don't like it when Vi is right. I should quit trolling and do whatever i can to steer this town in the right direction for after i flip.

[Porkens]

There are four logical possibilities:

1. pops is pro-town and is doctor
2. pops is pro-town and is not doctor
3. pops is anti-town and is doctor
4. pops is anti-town and is not doctor

It's fair to say that 2 is fairly unlikely.

I asked about the possibility of scum doctor because I wanted to know if 3 is possible in this game. So when I looked back at YC and pops's play, I could decide if it fits more with 1, 3 or 4.

For example, a scum doctor might be less concerned about coming under pressure if they felt their doc claim was unlikely to be counterclaimed (given that all else being equal, two docs are somewhat less likely than one), as compared with a scum who is purely bullshitting with his doc claim.

pops himself mentioned in his first post that he thought YC's play was more like that of a godfather. That's obviously a bit different but that kind of 'slightly fearless' play is what I was thinking of.

Anyhow.

Unvote

Whatever conclusion I come to re. 1/3/4 above, I don't want to lynch pops today in the absence of a counterclaim.

This post doesn't make much sense to me. Honestly, I kinda think that you had a scum slip of some kind with your previous post.

#3 seems like such an unlikely possibility in this situation. Why would a scum doctor claim doctor? I'd think 2 would be more likely than 3.

In any case, it's probably too late in the evening to dwell on such things, but this'll probably stick in my craw for a while.

[afatchic]

Seriously guys, im gone three days and already have a policy lynch wagon forming? Sorry, but i do have a life, and all my time on mafia was devoted to starting my game that i am modding. I have been able to pretty much stay caught up, as i get a little time to read some every night, but just not much time to make any kinds of posts. While i am at it i have limited access until tues. night. so i guess just go ahead and say

V/LA through tuesday, sept. 8th.

Noted

So anyways, on to the key points... I really hate that we forced Pops to claim. The more i read on it, the more it seemed that Y.C. was just a townie who thought he was right, and refused to back down. Unfortunantley, i wasn't here for that discussion, so i can't say much about why his wagon shouldn't have been that bad.

However, with that said, i can say that i haven't liked his (Pops) play much. Since he replaced in, he has just tried to push the easy wagon along. I guess, whether town or scum, that's what i would do too, just to save my own life. To me it looks like he is trying to jump on a newb for making beginner type mistakes, which to me are null-tells. I really wish pops would move on from the tunnel vision on TMJ and start to look at some other players, because i think some good cases have yet to be made, and i really think he is a pretty experienced player and could prove helpful to us for today.

TMJ: As i just said, i think he is a newb making a bunch of rookie mistakes, and getting jumped on for it. In my mind they are all Null-tells, and the reason for that is because i remember back in my first newbie game that i acted a lot of the same way (As V.T.). However i realize he has been signed up on the site for quite a while, but I'm not sure exactly how much experience he has. Basically, i am not trying to pull the newb card for him, but thats how i am taking a lot of what he has done, and thus i don't have much of a read on him at the moment. I really don't understand the reasoning behind the votes on him either.

Jammer: Okay, so his play hasn't stuck real well with me. I think i will be basically rephrasing a little something from everyone here, but i'll put it out there so you have my opinions anyways. I don't like this...

1. You draw a similarity between your play in that Newb game with Vi's play here.
2. You say I didn't suspect you for that play in that game.
3. You were scum.
4. Wouldn't you expect that I'd learn from my mistake?

1. There is a clear difference between my play there and Vi play here.(if that is your point)
2. Yes.
3. Yes.
4. Uh?

Unvote: Vi; Vote afatchic

I would say, YC as most scummy.

@TMJ, if it was not said before, your vote was quite blantently sheeping.
It is hypocrite to vote someone else to get them participate if you do little yourself. Besides I think there are others who did less.
As you keep your vote on YC now he is being wagoned, what is the main reason you keep this vote?

Unvote: afatchic; Vote: James Denholm

What i don't like is the fact that he places 2, what appear to be random, votes around the same exact time that he quite obviously says Y.C. is most scummy to him. Now why wouldn't you vote Y.C., who is scummiest to you, instead of placing a bunch of random votes? And then once Y.C replaces out and Pops joins the game, he votes him saying "I don't think he will be able to change my mind." Now if he was seriously that scummy to you, why wasn't your vote already on him? Then the bandwagon on me pretty much puts the icing on the cake.

Despite all that i just said, i would much rather see a lynch on either Cruciare or imaginality today. A lot of what they have been saying hasn't been siting right with me, however I am not exactly sure how to put a case together on them. This is generally my problem, i am not an english or logic major, so i generally get bandwagoned for miscommunication due to the fact that i can rarely get my point across the way i intend for it to sound.

If anyone has some extra time and wants to do some rereading i would suggest going back through the last few pages of all the votes and unvotes. I think once we get a few days in and have a couple allignments known, those few pages will be able to provide a lot of information.

Vote Jammer

for right now. It wouldn't hurt my feelings to see him as todays lynch, however i will get on either tomorrow or tuesday and see about digging up some stuff on cruciare and/or imaginality.

[Tjoe Min Ja]

I may be new here but it doesn't mean I don't have any "mafia" experience

I played many of game but under different environment

[Vi]

Seriously guys, im gone three days and already have a policy lynch wagon forming?

It got your attention, didn't it?~

TMJ would be better to answer other people than to post irrelevant details about himself.
Likewise pops can stop being useless any time now.

I actually like afatchic 180. Well worth the pressure vote.

Porkens, are you still looking at "something"?

Scummy players first. We can lynch unreadable players later if it's really necessary.

QFT. In my opinion, TMJ is unreadable based on the knowledge we have right now. I'd rather lynch someone else.

Do you think TMJ will remain unreadable if a wagon builds on him?~

-----

On afatchic's request, I took a second look at imaginality.

For example, a scum doctor might be less concerned about coming under pressure if they felt their doc claim was unlikely to be counterclaimed (given that all else being equal, two docs are somewhat less likely than one), as compared with a scum who is purely bullshitting with his doc claim.

pops himself mentioned in his first post that he thought YC's play was more like that of a godfather. That's obviously a bit different but that kind of 'slightly fearless' play is what I was thinking of.

Yyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyno, actually, the parallel you're giving makes no sense. Godfather is probably one of the least secure claims in Mafia

Beside that point, what if pops IS a Mafia Doctor? He would read as okay to this line of thought and still be Mafia. Bad news for you, unless you're not interested in scumhunting.

I figured if someone wanted to speedlynch pops they probably would've done it the first time he was at L-1. And that an obvious quickhammer would put the hammerer firmly in the spotlight Day2 (if pops flipped town).

jammer's vote on pops (116) to put him at L-1 the first time looks more like an attempt to speedlynch. Not stating it's the L-1 vote is something that always looks a bit scummy. If pops flips town, I can see both jammer and TMJ as scum from the way they got on the pops wagon (among other factors).

So what you're saying is that
*you wouldn't have hammered pops (as evidenced by pinning blame on jammer for the L-1 vote)
*you were more than willing to put pops at L-1 again
?
Do you want a pops lynch, or don't you?

Further, after you mentioned to prod afatchic due to the short deadlines, you yourself left for four days. I have evidence that you were onsite during that time. Between these posts you went from voting TMJ for building up the Y.C wagon (74) and placing pops at L-1 (126). Meanwhile in 170 you say "interesting few

hours

", suggesting a timeframe for when you check the thread... and all mention of TMJ has ceased since your vote on him.
This also ties into the previous point because it implies that you were well in control of the timing of your pops vote - you would have known if a pops vote would have been received favorably after his claim.

Since I've already pointed out how checking to see if pops is an M. Doctor qualifies more as dochunting than scumhunting, I find it telling that you Unvoted pops after his claim but haven't bothered to look anywhere else for a place to put this vote.

Vi approves of this wagon. *stamps with Vi Seal of Approval*
:arrow:

Unvote: afatchic
Vote: imaginality

(L-6)

[afatchic]

It got your attention, didn't it?~

No offense, but not really I was able to keep up reading, just not much time for posting, so i saw everyone complaining i wasn't here, but it didn't create any new time for me to come post.

Anyways, i haven't read that whole posts, but i have to go now so i'll post on it later tonight or tuesday.

Fixed tags

[popsofctown]

I don't really *get* the imaginality case, thought I am definitely starting to get the jammer case and also like afatchic 180. I still think TMJ is the scummiest player here, and am used to newbness and do not think this is newbness (i don't think you are a noob TMJ ). But the case on jammer is pretty legit. And the timing of the vote on me was indeed weird. Empty space doesn't push people over the edge on whom they think is scummy, but it would make scum boed enough to take a risk.

[Porkens]

Imaginality:

I'm still greatly unsettled by your consideration of a scum doc role. I don't follow the train of thought you laid out recently. It does stick in my nose.

afatchick:

Still hasn't answered the survey. Which is splitting hairs; welcome back to the game.

unvote

pops:

what about the case on Jammer do you find "legit?" Can you summarize the points you like in a few sentences?

Vi:

Read the first page, find the teaparty. Then read those two people in isolation. I'm being vague because I'd like you to reach an unbiased opinion before I spill my guts. Just lemme know if you need more clues.

There are several people in this game that need to talk more. The questioning will begin soon. Don't wait to be on the defensive.

[popsofctown]

That's exactly what i did in the following two sentences. Don't try to paint me as a sheep scumbag.

[Vi]

@Porkens: I'm having a slow night, but as long as you're keeping track of it I'm fine with waiting.

@pops: Would you like to claim scum and get it over with?

[DeathRowKitty]

PBPA of jammer

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 16#1838016-random votes Vi
1-answers the survey; seems to have answered carefully to avoid getting on anyone's bad side
2-relates the survey to his own questions in Newbie 803
3-responding to jammers; I don't like his response to the second quoted segment
4-asks JD what he thinks of Porkens thinking the survey was a smokescreen
5-one-word-answer-athon; votes afatchic
6-(@YC)"Would a simple way to remove most of this after survey talk, not simply to remove you from the game?" "You start to talk about side-tracking, but who is the one side-tracking from finding scum?"
7-says YC is the scummiest player
8-says he wants to wait to lynch until his V/LA (town tell, perhaps? 48 hours would be Tuesday though and he said he'd be gone Wednesday - Friday)
9-calls TMJ a hypocrite and asks why he's still voting YC; votes James.Denholm
10-asks Porkens why he's tunneling on YC
11-says YC is worthy of being voted (but doesn't vote); says he wants to hear more from TMJ
12-votes pops (L-1)
13-says TMJ's actions are "newish"; votes afatchic

A few things I don't like:

• His survey answers
• What I mentioned in post 3
• His hesitance to vote YC, followed by putting him at L-1
• His constant (random?) voting
• His posts in general (more a gut feeling than anything)

[DeathRowKitty]

In other news, I'm liking pops less and less.

[popsofctown]

@Porkens: I'm having a slow night, but as long as you're keeping track of it I'm fine with waiting.

@pops: Would you like to claim scum and get it over with?

I'm a mafia godfather with four roleblocks. Someone help me rolefish.

[Tjoe Min Ja]

@Porkens: I'm having a slow night, but as long as you're keeping track of it I'm fine with waiting.

@pops: Would you like to claim scum and get it over with?

I'm a mafia godfather with four roleblocks. Someone help me rolefish.

???I don't get it

[popsofctown]

You're allowed not to get it if you'd say something about the game tjoe. anything. i mean really.

[Cruciare]

Checking in here, not much to say. I'd like to remind Afatchic that Y.C. said himself that he wanted Vi dead no matter what, and I quote, "alignment is no longer the issue". You got 'townie who thought he was right, and refused to back down' from that? Also, as Imaginality (I think) said before, Pops had a chance to claim when he was previously on L-1, and instead in post 118 he says "I understand if I get lynched here". Doctor? Are you sure? Speaking of Imaginality, the case on him is a stretch I believe. I'm not feeling Porkens' unsettlement over the mafia doctor speculation, although Vi makes some reasonable points (but far from top-priority material in terms of who we should be lynching).

Pops, if you would be so kind as to comply, I'd like to hear how important you think the doctor role is to the town.

[afatchic]

1. How many games have you played to completion on this site?
2. Do you play Mafia on other sites? If so, what is different about those sites vs. here?
3. Do you consider yourself an experienced player?
4. Which other players in this game have you played with in the last six months?
5. Do you prefer to be Town, scum, or third party? Why?
6. Who is your favorite fictional character, and why?
7. How many scum do you think are in this game?
8. Why are you filling this survey out?
9. Do you think this survey will be useful in finding scum?
10. Am I more likely to be Town or scum in creating this survey?
11. Is English your first language?

I thought this had pretty much lost its point by now, but since people still begging for it, here it goes.

1)A lot, however i have replaced into a lot more than i have started though. I like to help out mods in need.

2)EpicMafia. like 6 months ago i used to play all the time.

3)No. I still make tons of newb mistakes after a year of playing. :/

4)Vi, Porkens. Imaginality, Jammer and RedCoyote on EpicMafia

5)Jester. I get lynched every game, so then for once I would be playing to my win condition.

6)No clue.

7)3? How about you tell me!

8)Because enough people complained haha

9)The actual answers it produced, no. The talk that came about from it... Maybe. It produced finding a claimed PR at least.

10)Once again, you tell me... Honestly, its a complete null-tell.

11)Sure is.

[Col.Cathart]

Sorry. Due to recent things that happened in Mini 836, all other games went down in my priority list. Now it's time to catch up, and I did a short analysis of every player.

Afatchic - One of the least active players around. His posts however are IMO decent 'catching up' posts, that brings a lot to the table. I can only hope, he'll be more active in the future.

I have one complain though. You still didn't answer Vi's survey. I know that hectic schedule is troublesome, and there's not enough time sometimes, but answering those question is the work for 5-10 minutes. IMO it should be done by now, and it's weird it isn't yet, especially if you declared, you're going to do it..

Also, one little nitpick from me.

Seriously guys, im gone three days and already have a policy lynch wagon forming?

5 days actually
EDIT by preview - Ok, no complains

Cruciare - Hard to tell at the moment. His rebellious behavior toward Vi's survey was pretty weird, but his later case on Y.C is pretty decent, and he don't seem to forget about other players and their actions. I don't really like his playstyle, but I doubt he's playing differently as a scum or town, so I cannot suspect him for it.

DeathRowKitty - What I don't like any single bit, is the fact, that you were attacking Y.C and Y.C only, almost ignoring anyone else in the thread. I don't get this whole 'let's wait some times before questioning Jammer'. If someone acts suspicious, then he should be investigated immediately. Now I can see identical thing, after pops claimed. Since you don't want to lynch claimed PR, you turned into Jammer direction, and I wouldn't be surprised if you would ignore everything else yet again. Appealing for a quickhammer for Y.C/pops is not helping either.

In worst case scenario, I see your actions as: 'Y.C is an easy D1 lynch, let's push it as hard as possible.' When this turned to be impossible, you turned in Jammer's direction, because several other people are suspicious of him, so he looks like another easy lynch target. There's also TMJ here, but since when you were pursuing Y.C, you said you seem his a newbie townie, so now going after him would be too dangerous.

Of course, I'm not convinced, this is true, but it's certainly a possibility.

Imaginality - Well, as I said, I didn't liked any single bit his and DRK's posts that were screaming 'speedlynch' to me. Other than that, he's not very active, and now we have this doc thingy, that may look like a rolefishing. To be honest, I don't know yet, what to think of it. I'll wait for his response to Vi's case, and then decide.

James.Denholm - Again, I'm puzzled. Not much content, this weird paranoia about Vi's survey, and finally 'scum reads on Y.C/pops, and yet I don't think he's scum'. I just don't get it. And I don't like it. I would like to hear some more from him about other players as well.

Jammer - So... We have this weird vote hopping. It's especially weird, when he says all the time that Y.C is scummy, but votes others (My guess - to make not active players talk), and when Y.C is going to be replaced, and cannot answer any more questions, he votes. It all looks scummy, but my gut says otherwise. Possibly, because I already participated in one game when Jammer was a scum, and he behaved differently. We'll see in the future, but for now neutral read.

Porkens - Well, after playing one game with him, I think I can easily guess (and I think, that Jammer can back me up with this) that Porkens is not a cop this time Also his weird ploy (or maybe should I say - trap) with Vi's survey is a thing, that I should expect from him, after seeing his playstyle, really. He seems to be concerned with Y.C/pops only, until his last post, which is not good however. His post are also very short, but usually to the point. I guess that's just his playstyle. Slight town read. Also, as someone pointed out - Still observing 'that thing'?

Sigma - More like enigma... Only 9 posts so far, but his case on Y.C and reactions about possible quicklynch, are giving me town read. I'm very interested, how his posts will look like in later game.

Tjoe Min Ja - Ah, TMJ... His start was IMO incredibly terrible. Sheeping, answers are simply far from truth (like when he said that Y.C was the only one not to answer Vi's survey). Now, his posts are somewhat better, but still short, and there's not much of them. My suspicions are not as big as previously, but he's definitely far from going to 'obv town' basket.

Vi - Main engine of every discussion. Lots of scumhunting, very active. I like his approach, and cannot see him as scum in any way. Town read.

Y.C/Pops - I already stated what i think about Y.C. Last time when I spoke about Pops, I said my read on him is somewhere near 'Banana!' on the scale, but now it's going into 'not helping the town' region which of course is closer to 'obv scum' rather than 'obv town'. I really want to see some real scumhunt from him.

That's everyone, I guess... My conclusion?

My vote stays for now on TMJ. His later content is still not enough to cover up, what he did earlier. But if he's posting will get better, I'll probably unvote him.

If not him, then who?

Huge FoS: DeathRowKitty

, for reasons stated above. Even more so, if Pops and/or Jammer will turn out to be town.

[imaginality]

Imaginality: I'm still greatly unsettled by your consideration of a scum doc role. I don't follow the train of thought you laid out recently. It does stick in my nose.

I don't understand this. I thought it was a natural and pro-town thing to consider (and, not knowing the answer, to check) whether alignment and role went hand in hand or not in normal games.

Perhaps a touch of my caution arises from having lost Mental War Mafia because of assuming that a player with a proven doc role (well sort of) was pro-town. (That was a theme game but still, the lesson stung.)

---

Yyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyno, actually, the parallel you're giving makes no sense. Godfather is probably one of the least secure claims in Mafia

I wasn't talking about claiming godfather... Just about how a godfather has arguably slightly less to fear from coming under suspicion than a normal goon, due to not being concerned about a cop guilty on him. Similarly, scum who feel they have a decent or provable claim might also be less concerned about staying under the radar if they think they have a good chance of weasling out of a lynch due to their claim.

Anyhow, on further examination that theory doesn't fit with pops' avoiding claiming when he was at L-1 for quite a while. So I'm falling back on considering the basic "town doctor" vs "lying scum" possibilities.

I figured if someone wanted to speedlynch pops they probably would've done it the first time he was at L-1. And that an obvious quickhammer would put the hammerer firmly in the spotlight Day2 (if pops flipped town).

jammer's vote on pops (116) to put him at L-1 the first time looks more like an attempt to speedlynch. Not stating it's the L-1 vote is something that always looks a bit scummy. If pops flips town, I can see both jammer and TMJ as scum from the way they got on the pops wagon (among other factors).

So what you're saying is that
*you wouldn't have hammered pops (as evidenced by pinning blame on jammer for the L-1 vote)
*you were more than willing to put pops at L-1 again
?
Do you want a pops lynch, or don't you?

My issue with jammer's vote is the way he made it. Putting pops at L-1 is one thing, slipping it into the middle of a longer post and not announcing it's L-1 is another. More chance of an accidental hammer. No, I wouldn't have hammered pops at the time jammer placed his L-1 vote. After his posts 118 and 126 I felt happier that he'd had a chance to argue his side, or roleclaim, and his posts had only succeeded in making him look scummier.

Further, after you mentioned to prod afatchic due to the short deadlines, you yourself left for four days. I have evidence that you were onsite during that time. Between these posts you went from voting TMJ for building up the Y.C wagon (74) and placing pops at L-1 (126). Meanwhile in 170 you say "interesting few hours", suggesting a timeframe for when you check the thread... and all mention of TMJ has ceased since your vote on him.

YC didn't seem greatly scummy to me, and TMJ's vote looked a bit opportunistic. Hence my vote on TMJ at that point. But then - pops's play after replacing YC, particular his attempting to shift pressure onto TMJ who was the only other player under pressure, his lack of comment on anyone else, and the appeals to emotion, were what led me to vote pops.

This also ties into the previous point because it implies that you were well in control of the timing of your pops vote - you would have known if a pops vote would have been received favorably after his claim.

? I voted him well before his claim. Not sure what you're getting at with that, or the whole timing thing really. "Interesting few hours" referred to the time between my post 154 (saturday 9:17am) and my post 170 (saturday 2:10pm), it doesn't mean I always check the thread every few hours or sooner.

Since I've already pointed out how checking to see if pops is an M. Doctor qualifies more as dochunting than scumhunting, I find it telling that you Unvoted pops after his claim but haven't bothered to look anywhere else for a place to put this vote.

I'm still weighing up whether pops is a pro-town doctor who desperately tried to shift pressure off him when he replaced in, and held off from claiming for a while, or a lying sackweasel who threw a doc fake-claim in there when he saw his appeals to emotion weren't doing the trick. While I'm not sure I don't want to leave my vote on him, and I haven't had much opportunity time-wise to hunt around for other scum lately - want to decide yeah or nay on pops first.

Cruciare's 193 touches on my main lingering doubt. I'd like to know, pops, why you didn't claim doc earlier than you did, given you were at L-1 for a lot of the time?

[RedCoyote]

*click*

...the baby ducklings, a story that this reporter hopes won't just slip through the 'quacks'. Reggie.

Thanks, Martin. Coming up, Channel 18's In-Depth Investigators makes an appointment at a controversial local clinic headed by

Y.C M.D

popsofctown M.D. We shoot at our own Leslie Stohl during a routine visit, did she survive through the night? Also, keeping the pounds off with the holidays right around the corner, we'll tell you how to slim down, stay fit, and look and feel g...

*click*

---

Vote Count 1.4

• Not Voting

  (

  afatchic

  - James.Denholm -

  Vi

  - DeathRowKitty - imaginality - Porkens)
  
  
  popsofctown
  (Tjoe Min Ja -

  DeathRowKitty

  -

  jammer

  -

  imaginality

  - Cruciare)
  
  
  Tjoe Min Ja
  (Col.Cathart - popsofctown)
  
  
  jammer
  (sigma - afatchic)
  
  
  afatchic
  (

  Porkens

  -

  Vi

  - jammer)
  
  
  imaginality
  (Vi)

With twelve alive, it takes seven to lynch.

[Vi]

Now,

[TMJ's]

posts are somewhat better,

?

-----

Similarly, scum who feel they have a decent or provable claim might also be less concerned about staying under the radar if they think they have a good chance of weasling out of a lynch due to their claim.

Doctor is neither decent nor provable. I have my own experience with a M. Goon deliberately No Killing to back up a D1 Doctor claim that let him coast to endgame.

And the follow-up paragraph is pretty much backpedaling.

No, I wouldn't have hammered pops at the time jammer placed his L-1 vote. After his posts 118 and 126 I felt happier that he'd had a chance to argue his side, or roleclaim, and his posts had only succeeded in making him look scummier.

So do you want a pops lynch now? The only difference between now and then is his roleclaim.
What about TMJ, since you unvoted him because pops was throwing mud at him?

YC didn't seem greatly scummy to me, and TMJ's vote looked a bit opportunistic. Hence my vote on TMJ at that point. But then - pops's play after replacing YC, particular his attempting to shift pressure onto TMJ who was the only other player under pressure, his lack of comment on anyone else, and the appeals to emotion, were what led me to vote pops.
(...)
? I voted him well before his claim. Not sure what you're getting at with that, or the whole timing thing really. "Interesting few hours" referred to the time between my post 154 (saturday 9:17am) and my post 170 (saturday 2:10pm), it doesn't mean I always check the thread every few hours or sooner.

I acknowledge that I was going off of memory with the timing of pops' claim.
However, you're glossing over the point here - you skipped

four days

of this thread but were clearly elsewhere onsite. That would be "lurking".
As to better state the faulty claim argument - when you did show up, you voted pops to L-1 because you knew it would not be contested very highly. Opportunism, etc.

While I'm not sure I don't want to leave my vote on him, and I haven't had much opportunity time-wise to hunt around for other scum lately - want to decide yeah or nay on pops first.

I don't buy this stalling for time. Your vote on pops is, for the moment, inconsequential. In the meantime, you can do this thing called "multitasking" where you scumhunt AND wait for pops to respond to you at the same time.

Last, this flowery language screams fake.

I thought it was a natural and pro-town thing

to consider (and, not knowing the answer, to check) whether alignment and role went hand in hand or not in normal games.

Perhaps a touch of my caution arises

from...

First bolded segment - Very few non-n00b Townies have considered whether Doctor is necessarily Town in my experience, partly because Doctor has a nasty tendency to be completely unprovable and partly because scum claiming their actual non-vanilla roles are pretty rare. But beside that, this looks like a front for you thinking "oops, I didn't think that would be so scummy".

Second bolded segment - "Perhaps a touch"? You can't come out and say that your opinion is definitely influenced by a game you lost to a significant enough degree that you brought the subject up in the first place? This looks like an attempt to sound intellectual that's falling flat.


tl;dr imaginality is scum; please vote him.

----

@RedCoyote:

Please list the deadline in each vote count.

Sure thing

[DeathRowKitty]

I don't get this whole 'let's wait some times before questioning Jammer'. If someone acts suspicious, then he should be investigated immediately.

YC/pops was a much more convincing case. I figured it would be beneficial to wait to make a case on jammer until there was more to go on, especially with a much better lynch candidate out there.

In worst case scenario, I see your actions as: 'Y.C is an easy D1 lynch, let's push it as hard as possible.' When this turned to be impossible

It wasn't impossible at the time of my unvote. I ws the first one to unvote and pops was still acting suspicious. I'm just extremely hesitant to lynch any claimed PR day 1, especially doctor.