Mini 188: Texas Holdem Mafia - GAME OVER!

[Thok]

Hi all. Bad news, we lost a cop.

Good news, we only lost one person, so there's probably only one scum group. Also, it's possible for town to lynch two scum in one day by going all in. In particular, this means the town can still win with two town versus two scum.

random vote: Bamboomancer

since I'm not sure how one can use magical bamboo.

[Thok]

So, chip count seems to equal number of posts by that player (although I'm assuming from Aelyn's chip count that double posts count only once). That means people who post a lot might be scum trying to avoid all in. So,

FOS people who post a lot

. In particular, this makes Iammars' posting restriction reasonable, although I'm not sure why he would choose to tell everybody about it now.

Iammars, is it just me, or do you seem to get a lot of roles with restricted posting requirements? (Obviously don't answer these questions unless you feel you have something else important to say or you want to cast a vote).

[Thok]

I think Aelyn was reasonable in trying to get information about the chip count mechanic.

It occurs to me that Iammars might be "small blind" today. If so, there's probably a "big blind" and a "dealer" out there also, and these roles would rotate each day. Does this seem reasonable?

vote kristocker

I'll join the lurker hunt.

[Thok]

unvote

Can't believe I forgot to do that when I voted kristocker. But since he's posted, no need to lurker hunt. Feel better Bamboomancer?

The reason I think Iammars is small blind and not big blind is for aesetic reasons, but I could see the argument going either way. I think big blind also gets a post restriction (I suspect 5 posts for small blind, 10 votes for big blind, possibly going up every few days). I think dealer gets some bonus, but I'm not sure what it is.

However, this is all speculation on my part and I could be horribly wrong.

Finally,

vote Quagmire

as a bit of a lurker hunt (he hasn't posted since randomly voting Aelyn at the beginning of the game, and I'd like to hear what he has to say).

[Thok]

OK, thanks for letting us know.

unvote Quagmire

Well, I think we should start playing mafia.

vote Maximus

partially to have a bandwagon, and partially for not realizing what Aelyn was doing-it's important to understand the mechanics of chip count.

Finally, one experiment, just to see if something cool happens. If there is a cocktail waitress near by, I'd like to give her one chip and ask for some scotch. (I don't expect anything to happen, but you have to admit it would be cool if something did happen).

[Thok]

And suddenly the thread goes quiet.

Bamboomancer, the "dealer" refers to the position before the small blind, even if somebody else deals the cards. This position is important because he doesn't have to ante, but does get to see what all of the non-blinds get to do. In Vegas, you aren't allowed to join a table at the dealer position unless you choose to pay an extra ante. It wouldn't surprise me if ralphjfreak's double vote comes from him being today's dealer. (Of course, I'm just speculating, he doesn't need to comment on that for now).

Also, Bamboomancer, a better test for checking if you are town is if you'd be willing to let somebody go all in on you. Otherwise you might be scum sacrificing a scum buddy. You seem to be protesting a bit too much, but it's not quite worth a vote right now.

Apparently LML has ignored my request for scotch. Oh well.

I'll

unvote Maximus, vote Dranko

for general spamminess.

[Thok]

Thesp, the way we plan to use the "make guilty-looking people go all-in" strategy is if the town has two guilty looking people (A and B), we will tell the person with the higher chip count to go all-in on the person with the lower chip count. If A wins, then B was scum (but nothing is known about A). If B wins, then B is innocent (but unfortunately A is dead).

If A delibarately chooses to all-in somebody other than B, or refuses to go all-in, he's probably scum, and we lynch him.

Do you just not see that in this case a person willing to be person B is more likely to be pro-town than the person willing to be person A?
----------------------
You've suggested another use for all-in, which lets a cop be a day-vig. But in that case, the cop is acting on his own volition, and we can recognize the action as not being forced. They are different situations!

(Takes a sip of scotch, then continues)

For your other comment, I've made five votes, but one was random, and two were lurker prodding (although I unfortunately lurker voted your wife immedaitely right after she posted.) When the lurkers I voted posted, I stopped voting them. Right now I'm happy with my Dranko vote though.

[Thok]

EmpTyger, I was just trying to see how closely this game resembles the real Vegas Hold'em experience. As far as I know, the only power my scotch has is the power to get me drunk. Which is why I'm sipping it slowly.

(Takes another small sip of scotch).

Bamboomancer, I think you need to take a deep breath and calm down a little. You can help us the most by paying attention to the game and looking for suspicious behavior in others, instead of defending yourself every post.

[Thok]

LML, sorry for disturbing the game with my drink request.

That being said we need to be talking more. While timewise this has been a long first day, we haven't really said much, other than talk about game mechanics. Right now 6 people are voting, and two of those are the original random votes of lurkers. Heck, if anybody had posted a mere two times a day, they'd have 20 chips by now, with would be about twice the current chip leader.

Of course, I'll now hypocritcally say a couple words about game mechanics. I don't know if mafia will have strong hands or weak hands. Good players have won the World series of Poker by hitting a bad hand-the 10-2 is called a Brunson for a reason. (Doyle Brunson won the WSOP two years in a row by hitting a 10-2). Another thing to notice is that STD's nickname (KJ=Kojak) corresponded to the role of the hand, but there's no reason to believe that the mod will do that for every role.

I'm happy with my Dranko vote for now. But, I could also see going lurker hunting-Quagmire really should have posted again by now, and it might be useful for Iammars to use one of his three remaining posts for today to tell us his thoughts.

[Thok]

Dranko, we can always ask somebody to go all-in on Iammars. Most of us have more chips than him. Also, I'm a little worried about your "I'm confident Iammars is scum" comment-certainly you have at least a little doubt, right?

I'm not completely certain Iammars is scum. He seems to be claiming a "hider" type role. That is, Iammars can choose to hide with person A each night. If A is scum, Iammars dies. If A is innocent, then Iammars can't be targetted directly by scum, but Iammars dies if scum targets A. If Iammars has this type of role, then he probably didn't make a night 1 choice, since he didn't want to randomly hide with scum. (There's probably a better name for this role, I know that it was used in Sangreal Mafia under the name Pilgrim and has been used in other games).

That said, I don't like how Iammars is using the role-he'd be better off trying to confirm innocents, and not revealling his choices beforehand. Among other things, Iammars shouldn't be trying to kill himself off! His current method makes Bamboomancer a better target for scum tonight, since they could possibly kill two people in one shot.

I am worried about the SV comment; I just got finished playing a game (Newbie 107) with Iammars where he made a similar sort of inattentive mistake and turned out to be scum. That's enough to make me vote for him, except that he currently has four votes on him, and we only need 6 to lynch. We should probably start discussing if we want somebody to go all-in on Iammars (or for Iammars to go all-in on somebody).

We could probably use a few things from the mod, so can we have a

vote count

and also could you

prod Quagmire

? It's been 10 days since he lasted posted in this thread, and I know he's been on mafia scum during that time period.

[Thok]

That's enough to make me vote for him, except that he currently has four votes on him, and we only need 6 to lynch.

Silly me, I forgot about rajrhcpfreak's double vote, which gives us 12 votes total today. It's 7 votes to lynch, not 6. In that case, I'll

unvote Dranko, vote Iammars

to put him two from lynch.

[Thok]

I'd need to see at least a couple more hands before I believe the poor hand equals mafia theory. I've also suggested that a nickname determines a person's role. (For example KJ=Kojak was a cop).

To help with that, I'll provide the following List of names of poker hands, courtesy Wikipedia.

As a disclaimer, I doubt that this list is comprehensive. For example, it lists 7-2 generically as the beer hand, but I've also seen Iammars usage of limiting the Beer Hand to 7-2 unsuited only.

Of course, some of the other nicknames for 7-2 unsuited listed on the site (Deadly Teddy Lee, The Hammer) don't help Iammars case.

[Thok]

It helps if you the bold the prods like this

Prod Maximus

. I won't prod Iammars until we come to some consensus about handling all-in votes.

I sort of want to see Bamboomancer go all in on Iammars; if Iammars is scum, he might have been trying to use his role claim to "clear" Bamboomancer. (And Bamboomancer has been fairly defensive this game in any case). But, I'm not sure that my request accomplishes anything. Any thoughts on this?

EmpTyger, one reason that nobody's claimed a bad hand is that most of us don't want to reveal information to scum this early in the game.

Also, LML has said that drinks (or at least the tips) don't mean anything. But if people want me to, I can finish my drink and not get another.

[Thok]

To make this official, LML, could you

Prod Iammars

?

I like Bamboomancer's idea of setting a pseudo deadline for Iammars to post-we shouldn't have to wait for him.

I also have a suggestion for handling the post restriction on future days (assuming that it exists and is rotating). If you don't have a post restriction, you should say so in your first post. Then we can figure out who has the restriction by process of elimination. This has the advantage of saving any post restricted person 1 post.

[Thok]

What I want to say is that I probably won't live through the night. If I die, my chips go into the pot. If that is the case, I urge the town to be VERY suspicious of whoever casts the lynching vote on me as they will get all the chips.

Huh? If you are night-killed then nobody can cast the lynching vote on you.

I agree that we should decide who casts the final vote today-I'd be happy with Thesp or rajhcpfreak making that vote as I feel like they are relatively unlikely to be scum. Alternatively, we could have one of the low stacks make the final vote, just to even the stacks up.

[Thok]

Mastermind of Sin, who do you think we should go after? Also, Iammars is claiming that he's immune to lynching, so lynching him either verifies that or catches scum.

Bamboomancer, I don't think it's a good idea for you to stop posting, mainly because it would take a while for any of us to catch up to you. I do find it weird that you are claiming a "powerful role" now, given that you earlier claimed that you would be willing to go all in if the town asked you.

Aelyn, right now I'd prefer if Bamboomancer went all in on Iammars, but if that doesn't happen I guess I'm OK with you (or myself or a random volunteer) using the all-in instead.

Here's an unofficial Chip count. All chip counts probably have an error of plus or minus 1 chip. For example I haven't tried to figure out all of the drink issues, but I have dealt with all of the multipost issues.

bamboomancer-23
EmpTyger-18
rajrhcpfreak-15
Thok-15
Aelyn-13
Thesp-13
Maximus/Mastermind of Sin-11
kirstocker-9
Dranko-7 (Last post May 20)
Iammars-5
Quagmire-4 (last post May 22)

[Thok]

Sorry about forcing you to do this Bamboomancer.

Just in case Iammars is innocent,

unvote Iammars

so scum don't get a chance to jump on a proven innocent.

[Thok]

Iammars didn't protect anybody last night. I assume you mean it's impossible to know who Iammars hid with.

I am also on limited access, although I should post at least once a day until the 13th.

Bamboomancer's death means that my "small blind, big blind, dealer" theory is wrong. Also, Iammars death shows that the "low hand equals scum" theory is wrong. The "hand name=role" theory seems to be valid, although I'm not sure how Ajax=doctor.

It looks like we have either a vig or an SK (and if we have an SK, a roleblocker or doc got lucky night 1). I can imagine a scenario with both a vig and an SK in the game. That at least means we have a chance as long as the vig/SK hits scum (and the all-in helps town also).

We might as well start by looking at the lurkers, so

FOS Quagmire and Dranko

[Thok]

I'm really skeptical of a role claim. The major reason is that town may desperately need to protect the SK from an all-in, so he can hunt scum. (Although if Dranko actually is a vig, we might even be able to survive that).

I'll go along with a mass role claim if everybody wants to, but I want Aelyn to choose the claiming order. (I find it hard to believe that scum or the SK would volunteer to go all-in on Iammars, so Aelyn's the closest thing we have to a confirmed innocent.)

I'm trying to decide if I want to have Aelyn to cast the last vote on a lynch. On the one hand, I want the chip leader to be pro-town and Aelyn is most likely is pro-town; but on the other hand I don't want to make Aelyn an even bigger target for scum tomorrow night.

[Thok]

I'm almost happy with that claim order if we choose to claim, but as EmpTyger said shouldn't you include MOS somewhere?

Thesp, not only am I annoyed with Bamboomancer, but I really wish that Iammars didn't choose to use his powers last night. Life would be easier for town if he was the confirmed high stack. But believe me, yesterday I fully expected a Bamboo-Iammars-somebody mafia also.

Dranko, I agree that from my point of view I'm the most likely to be pro-town. But I have extra information that the rest of town can't use (namely my role claim). If Aelyn is scum, he volunteered to go all-in on an innocent person at a time when another innocent was being asked to go all. That's not a bold play for scum, it's suicidal! I'm willing to accept Aelyn as pro-town for now.

[Thok]

I'm not sure continuing the claiming is a good idea (see my comments about possibly needing to protect the SK from all-in, which are even more relevant if Dranko is scum and not a vig).

Looking at the Wiki list, I can imagine several better role names for a vig than Big Slick (for example AA-Bullets/Pocket Rockets or 99-Barbara Feldon, who played Agent 99 from Get Smart). I also have a guess for what Big Slick actually does (and what Canine does for that matter).

As a side note, if Dranko was the SK, scum has already gotten a chance to go all-in on him. So either Dranko isn't the SK or scum don't want to go all-in on him for some reason.

Should we prod Quagmire and MOS, since they are next on the list?

[Thok]

Like I said, I can guess what Quagmire's bonus is. If I'm reading the situation correctly (i.e. if my guesses for Big Slick and Canine are correct), Quagmire may be able to reveal his bonus once Aelyn reveals what Big Slick does (assuming LML hasn't put some mod-restriction on Quagmire). I'd prefer either to continue with MOS or just have Aelyn all-in Dranko now.

Dranko, shouldn't you be voting Aelyn in this situation if you are pro-town? The only reason I'm not voting you right now is that it's better for town to have Aelyn go all-in on you, to cover the now vanishingly small chance of Aelyn being scum.

[Thok]

So, anybody here?

I'm just posting to let people know that I will be traveling tomorrow (June 13) and that I won't have internet access all day. I'll accept it if Aelyn wants to change my position in the claim order to reflect this fact.

[Thok]

So in three days we've seen three posts. Perhaps we can pick it up just a little? We're just giving scum time to think up role claims.

[Thok]

OK. I am Ace-3, Baskin-Robbins, vanilla townie (Apparently they ran out of the other 30 flavors).

[Thok]

Sorry for the double post, but as a side note, I will be travelling June 18-19, so I probably won't have internet access. I will also be travelling June 26-27. After that I won't have any problems with internet access.

[Thok]

Wow.

Also, freaking masons. (I'm tempted to request that as a title). I was certain that Aelyn was a roleblocker on day 2, and that you had roleblocked me at least night 1. I seriously thought about claiming something like Doyle Bronson as hand cop and claim that you role-blocked me, which would have been disasterous. If I had internet access at all after Thesp claimed mason, I would have all-inned MOS.

I'm glad to see my attempts to seem pro-town worked (in a sense).

I've already explained the drinks-at the time I thought there was a small blind/big blind/dealer mechanic, and I figured I might as well check to see if drinks did anything. Incidentally *chugs remaining 2 day old scotch*

Despite the result, it really felt like this game favored the town. For example, a Bamboomancer role claim day 1 would have made this a rout for the town.

MOS, I feel for you. You had a near impossible role to play.

Finally, thanks to my scum partners. Emptyger, it was a pleasure playing with you, and thanks for the brilliant Baskin-Robbins role claim. Dranko, I'm not sure I approve of your style of play (what was up with that role claim?) but our fighting turned out to win the game for us.