Mini 782 - And Then There Were None (Game Over)

[hewitt]

This might sound a little weird but I'm a little confused on why Populartajo's getting a lot of heat for the Fritzler lynch considering I was the player who started it. Not only that but a lot of people had been saying over and over again that they thought my predecessor was scummy but never pushed a case on him or myself. What's up with that? I find that more than a little weird.

Vote Count

Setael 2 - hewitt, AA23
populartajo 2 - Looker, Sarag

[AA23]

Well hell, man... lol now it's even LESS appealing when you're the one pointing yourself out.

I admit, there's a substantial "case" and valid suspicions on the person you replaced - - I made early note of them.

However - - As much as I try not to let previous games influence me too much, you know better than anyone how I get when I condemn someone for the actions of the perosn they replace!! lol

[AA23]

** which is to say - - I'm not a fan of it!

You replaced someone who raised a couple flags for me IMO - - but they aren't here to defend it, and you don't know their state of mind.

[hewitt]

I know I'm just trying to start any resemblance of a discussion considering now we have to wait for two players to be replaced who were in iffy standings to begin with. And nobody else was drawing any attention to anything so I was like hey what the hell why not start with me.

[Budja]

@hewitt I was thinking the same thing when I saw that.
You started the whole damn Fritz wagon .

Tajo hasn't said much recently besides a string of "will post later's" and he didn't say much at the post-claim part of the Fritz wagon.
Not very telling either way.

[hewitt]

Yeah Populartajo's just kind of floating along not really doing anything, pretty annoying.

[populartajo]

please replace me.

this game isnt going anywhere and died when all players were replaced.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

...and then there were two.

[ThAdmiral]

zwetschenwasser replaces DraketheFake.

Kreriov replaces setael.

[ThAdmiral]

...and then there were two.

And then there were two more...

[Budja]

OK then.
zwets, I think you should claim. See the last couple of pages as to why.

(@mod, limited access for a week or so.)

[Kreriov]

Hello all. This is the first time I have replaced into a game, so please be patient and give me a chance to see what is going on.

[AA23]

Vote Budja

Can you explain why before Zwet has even posted, you've asked him to claim?

We've literally beaten this topic in the ground, and not a single player has truly expressed how the pro's outweigh the con's.

With the Pro's and Con's being what they were when we discussed this topic - it was made very clear we would be hurting town.

I see your act as hurting town, Budja. I think you know this, and hopped on asking him as quick as possible to score one of two reactions:

1. He actually does it, and you use that as fuel for a case on him and the claim hurts town because no matter what he flips, we'll be name crazy

2. He doesn't do it, and you play off him and try to get him worked up about it (also to fit him for a lynch and EXPECIALLY if you know his meta)

I find it anti-town, unfair, and scummy.

Please explain yourself

[Kreriov]

Well, I have finished a very quick reading. I do not have the time or inclination to do a deeper read until tomorrow. I want to let what I have read percolate a bit.

@Sarag - I do think my predecessor had reasons for voting Phoebus, not sure why you do not think so.

I really did not see many strongly reasoned votes other than SL on DizzyIzzy. (Nameclaiming in a game where you are allowed to quote the PMs is pretty much useless. I think I blanked out for a few pages as the argument over it and SL's unwarrented ad hominem attacks increased. I am glad she is gone.) That being said, I find Dizzy to be neutral. I only mention SL thing because I found SL, and therefor Zwet, to be pro-town.

The lynch of Fritz was very weak and deadline driven. Had the game not been dragging for so long, I would find all three of those on the lynch very suspicious. One, at least, is probably scum. Budja's initial jumping on the wagon so close to deadline seemed very opportunistic. Still, his later analysis and questioning of Hewitt is both pertinent and accurate. Tajo seems to almost just be fed up and tired with the game. Hewitt created and pursued the wagon on Fritz. He replaced CreativeMind, who was already seen as fairly scummy. Being in the same position as hewitt, I am sensetive to the fact that he cannot answer for his predecessors actions, but of the three on Fritz's lynch, I just find him the most suspicious.

So

Vote: hewitt

[DizzyIzzyB13]

...and then there were two.

And then there were two more...

No there weren't, we're still down to two people who actually started the game.

I see. Good observation.

[Kreriov]

I am not sure whether to put Budja's failure to answer AA23 down to not willing to answer or simply not paying enough attention to answer. I guess we (I) should give people more time to realize there are replacements in and willing to participate?

[hewitt]

Unvote: Kreriov

He's replacing in so it doesn't make much sense to be pushing for a new player right now. In response to his case on me I guess I don't have much to say except ask if making a case on someone and others jumping on after I pursued it is a scummier act on me part or those who followed.

[zwetschenwasser]

I finally remembered to watch this thingamabob. Reading...

[DizzyIzzyB13]

Sweet, Zwet's going to kick off some action.

[zwetschenwasser]

While I'm reading, could somebody illuminate me as to why people are asking me to claim?

[AA23]

There are two identities.

1. Our Mafiascum identities (Town, Power Roles etc)

2. Character names attached to the theme of this game

=======================================

There are those that speculate (poorly) that

name claiming

will allow us to determine what

roles

people have.

This is backward thinking.

We would have to assume our mod crossed his fingers that we did/didn't know the story intimately enough.

We would have to assume our mod DIDN'T give scum fake claims

We would be risking having someone flip scum coincidentally with a name that corresponds with the theme of the game (murder mystery book) - and that could result in mislynches.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bottom line:

If we believe the NAMES correspond with the innocence/guilt of the story's characters - asking for a name claim is no different than asking for a role claim (scummy)

If we believe they do NOT correspond, we also know the weight and negative impact of a claim and would therein NOT ask.
===============================================

[AA23]

And I believe that you were asked because as a replacement you haven't been part of the debate on the matter and Budja was trying to take advantage of that.

[Budja]

@Kreriov, if the Fritzer wagon was as weak as you say, which wagon would you have supported as an alternative?

(@mod, limited access for a week or so.)

Here's a hint to why I didn't answer.

There are those that speculate (poorly) that name claiming will allow us to determine what roles people have.

Spring (now zwets) a softclaimed powerrole claimed otherwise.

After saving Spring (i.e by changing to Fritz at deadline) because she was a power-role, I realised that it is unsafe for the town to have a softclaim PR. If town, she is outed already and a claim is unlikely to make it worse and if she is scum, it gives her an unspecified PR she can fakeclaim whatever she pleased at a critical time (eg. LyLo).

I am thinking that Drake (rep. Spring) should fullclaim at this point. I can't see it making things worse and it would be helpful to know sooner than later on the chance he is scum IMO. Thoughts?

^ I have also said simular earlier, why didn't you vote me back then?

Also, I am not planning on attacking zwet after a claim unless I really feel I have good reason too. That is not the point.

[AA23]

@Budja

You're not seeing the forest from the trees.

You're rationalizing what a claim would and would not mean for a single player. Knowing the name and allignment of them might give the wrong impression and screw other innocent townies over.

Suppose a player with an innocent role, has an innocent name : That may wrongfully fuel you and/others to suggest a mass name claim and could resort to death of a towny

Suppose a player with an innocent rol, has a guilty name: That would fuel people to potentially call them a liar and result in distrust - - and the eventual mislynch of a towny.
===================
And there was mention of claiming even earlier than the example you gave. I didn't vote you because IMO we were all still beating the topic into the ground - - I voted you because you shoved it down the throat of a player that hadn't even POSTED yet. I think you wanted to rush it in hopes it would go your way and you could gain a claim and all the confusion and danger that comes with it.

[Looker]

::rolls out of bed::

O, hey, hello. Guess I'll...get back to reading...