x wrote:
It's a matter of time that he was putting into the game. He wasn't doing ISO re-reads or checking up on people's meta - he was clearly reacting to the new things that had been posted. I'm trying to be clear. But I'm not quite sure how this matters...back to the topic:
My points on PP were:
1. Parroting what VPB had said earlier and almost trying to pass it off as a new argument (114-5)
2. Asking a loaded question (116)
3. Speaking from the mafia mentality, "You have gained the attention of the mafia, and have set yourself for a kill." (114)
4. A roleclaim that did not match his actions; also that the claim is a convenient scum claim (221)
5. Having knowledge beyond what people with his join date usually have, because it could have been supplied by buddies
You got #2 and #5, and sort of got #4, although your phrasing could be taken the wrong way.
1. I don't see where you've mentioned this before now.
2. k
3. k
4. k.
5. This is the whole problem I have with you and PP. You tacked on a bullshit reason to further justify your case. It just doesn't look good at all.
Sotty7 wrote:These two quotes come from two different days and over a span of over two weeks and several game pages. Do you really think nothing could have changed for Elvis in that time? I feel like you put the two most contradictory quotes on Elvis you could find together in an attempt to make her look worse. I find that pretty scummy considering you didn't attempt to provide and perspective on her opinion and how it did or didn't change over time.
=/ Empking acted the same the entire time he was in the game, so no I don't see how something could have changed for Elvis. She never even mentioned something changing, so if something did there was no way I could know.
e_k wrote:
It wasn't a defense of moriarty so much as an attack on image. It does accomplish something for town because it points out image putting words in another player's mouth. To me, that is significant since it seems pretty scummy. You don't think that it's scummy to put words in player's mouths? You think there is no town motication for pointing it out?
Your points 1,2, and 3 are WIFOM based on you assuming I'm scum. Actually, all of that is really a made-up story of what my motivations might have been if I were scum. It's circular reasoning.
Moriarity can defend himself. Defending him implies that you know his alignment.
And you don't seem to understand what I was getting at with the points 1 2 and 3. I was pointing out how it would help you if you were scum, not saying that's why you did it.
I can't help it if I agree with a what some other people said in that instance. That is actually a good thing to find places where you agree, since we are trying to find a consensus. If my only contribution to the game was useless parotting, THAT would be scummy. But I have made plenty of my own arguments.
And bandwagoning is not bad if you have a reason for doing so.
Bandwagoning probably wasn't the right word. I guess parroting would be better. I don't care that you agree Juls was scummy for reasons brought up by others(I thought Juls would flip scum too). You were just using someone else's argument again against her, which makes it seem like you were trying to make it seem like you were actively scumhunting while you actually weren't.
I had been suspicious of image for a while, demonstrated by the part that you yourself have quoted, where I attacked him for putting words in moriarty's mouth. So I don't see why you would think my suspicion on image was somehow false or manufactured.
Again you completely misunderstand my point. I think you're scum so obviously any suspicions would be false(unless you're bussing). The fact that you expressed suspicions of him earlier have nothing to do with this. You're trying to make image look more suspicious that people currently though to see how plausible a bandwagon would be(that's what it looked like).
The second quote was on day 1 when there were other stronger leads. Lots of things changed and happened to make me think empking was the best lynch at the time of the first quote. One thing that did influence my suspicions WAS that he said he was suspicious of me "for reasons he couldn't recall." It wasn't just that he was suspcious of me... it was that he didn't have any reason. I don't really think that's OMGUS, since it's his reasoning (or lack thereof) that I object to.
You find this strange coming from Empking why?
I don't understand how it was terrible. Empking was not playing like town. I don't understand anyone thinking he was playing like town.
Empking was playing like Empking. Believe or not, players like him who drop scumtells are actually dropping null tells, and the fact that most of you in here knew of his meta and still called him scummy for it is the terrible part.
VPB wrote:two players who I believe are likely town.
What? What makes you think that?
The cases seem very contrived if you ask me, and hardly substantial enough to call someone scum. They are looking at very specific incidents that are removed from any sort of context and are backed by either 'gut' or WIFOM speculation about NKs.
Who do you think is scum then? IIRC all of your suspicions have flipped town.
I am very much ok with mass claim starting with Hero.
Sure, but I'd like X or e_k to go next.
I am Phil Collins, vanilla townie.