Mafia 98 - Apennine Mafia (Game Over)

[VP Baltar]

@VPB/DDD What are your opinions on Gieff? Are you willing to lynch him today?

No. He may be annoying right now, but he is most likely town.

Indeed, I think we had 6, and we’re getting real close to lynching Mastin before Gieff completely derailed it. I think you should vote him

So, you are saying I should vote him for derailing the Mastin wagon while you are actively trying to derail Mastin wagon redux. I'll pass.

I’m with this day needing to end.

Less chat, more splat. Time for you to actually vote Mastin and stop talking about it.

[VP Baltar]

ugh, simulpost. thanks benmage.

[Benmage]

Yessir I only illustrated Gieff's useless-ness by suggesting there are several possible lynch targets but Mastin was strongest. He derailed it, so since I already felt it derailed and I was angry has his blatant misrepresentation I actually hoped to lynch him. Once enough people got back to their senses, I of course was willing to return to the mastin lynch.

New Lynch preference:
Mastin
Gieff

[camn]

UNVOTE
VOTE MASTIN!

[Yaw]

Final Vote Count:

Mastin (8): Debonair Danny DiPietro, VP Baltar, Kmd4390, Zachrulez, SpyreX, GIEFF, Benmage, camn
Battle Mage (2): Mastin, alexhans
alexhans (1): Battle Mage

Not Voting: Cephrir, blackcatcontract, SensFan, jammer

---

"Mastin!" cries one of the guests. "Look at him just sitting there! He says he'll help us, but he just keeps going back to the bar!" There is eventual agreement from others, and they jump on Mastin.

Mastin is tied up and gagged securely. While you're pretty sure there's no way he'd get out, a different problem arises. You have no idea when contact to the outside world will be restored so you can turn him over to the police. Also, what if he wasn't the only murderer? His compatriots could simply release him during the night to kill some more. No, there was only one solution. Mastin shakes and whimpers as the cleaver descends on his throat, but it is soon over.

Unfortunately for you, searching his clothes and room reveals nothing that would connect him to the murders at all.

Mastin, Townie, Lynched Day 1

It is now Night 2. Night will last until

Monday, July 27 at Midnight Eastern Time

.

As for Cephrir and blackcatcontract, I'm sending them a PM requiring a response by Saturday as to whether or not they're still in. If not, they'll be replaced before day breaks. Rest assured, everyone in the game will have the chance to submit a night choice if they have one, and I retain the right to extend the night if necessary to ensure this happens.

[Yaw]

Morning comes after a fitful night. Wandering downstairs, you find there is no breakfast laid out for you. At least there isn’t a body at breakfast today. You take the opportunity to raid the food stores for some sustenance before retiring to the comfort of the chalet’s main room.

On a couch, awaiting your arrival, is VP Baltar. Well, perhaps that isn’t quite accurate. Looking more closely, you find he has been strangled to death. Searching his person and his room, you find nothing that would connect him to the murders. After moving the body out and checking that no progress has been made digging the chalet out, it is time for another day of investigation.

VP Baltar, Townie, killed Night 2

It is now Day 2. With 13 alive, it will take 7 to lynch. This day will last until Tuesday, August 25 at midnight Eastern Time.

Also, both Cephrir and blackcatcontract confirmed during the night that they're still in this game.

[Benmage]

Oh wow, glad i lvied tonight. I read a couple iso during the weekend and have some comments to post. Let me tweak them(quoting was impossible with thread locked) The last one was actually VPB ...i'll post em shortly.

[GIEFF]

Oh wow, glad i lvied tonight.

The last one was actually VPB

Wow, what are the odds?

[Benmage]

Okay so the first person I did was Jammer.

Jammer:

Mastin you plan using meta to see who killed the cow, while you already made clear scum can easily wifom the meta. With that, there only has to be one that played with hascow, to know him and kill him. You think(and others?) talking about meta, is a better way to find scum, then simple scumhunting?

What with Mastin dead and flipped town, perhaps some of his initial foresight wasn’t too far off. If we recall he said Battle Mage had most experience with cow, and would probably have tried to NK him. It’s just something to note.

*Starts off posting moderately (posts 8 times on his first day). Concerned with NK meta. Perhaps chainsawing for a scummate? He moves into the # of scum discussion where he received some heat for agreeing with alex on 4.

It sounds, if I said 3 you would yell towards other players to vote me, the obv. scum.

Gieff was pushing it quitE hard. Another thing to note.

I don’t know about this next post:

You pull conclusions far to soon for my opinion. If the number of scums I called was 3 you where ready to vote me off without any though at all.
(and yes, sorry I messed up some quote tags)

@Zach, I'm surprised that makes you feel save in calling me town.
Would you have voted me if I stated that there where 3 mafia?

@camn, why ask specificly VP's opinion about hascow, earlier?

@Kairyuu, What do you think about the opposing of the meta N0 kill from SensFan. While he is suspected becouse of this by you and Mastin.(top-suspect)

^^ trying to draw the attention elsewhere? Seems to work, moves down to 3 posts for your second day of posting. You than have a day where you post once. Some days you skip, the max I’m re-seeing for a bit is 3 posts. Trying to stay a bit off radar are we?

You say we should ignore the kill?

Yes, or come with something good. You say not to disregard the kill, yet I've seen nothing usefull on that topic coming from you.

Still pushing this defense…Do you still think there is nothing to gain from N0/N1 killings?
…

1)NK-speculation distracts
2) Multiple scum, what if they interact and make the whole kill more complicated.
3) The wifom aspect, it wasn't a normal kill to start with. So they didn't think about wifom? Also refering to DDDs post 115.
4) It did not get us out of RVS stage.
5) As you ignored question posed earlier, I assume noone has ever founded arguments out of it, to catch scum with it.

Can we stop now about the discussion with meta N0 kills?

You talked about how it isn't useless. But don't who the suspects would be according to it.

^^more anti NK speculation.

Speaking from Alex POV.
tbh, I don't think the Mastin-case is very strong.

Off Alex PoV or inside knowledge as scum?

@alexhans,
I'm thinking the wall-post war gets more personal then actual bringin points forward.
Is BM your main suspect?

Though I will say right now that I'm not liking what I am seeing from Battle Mage so far.

Tell me, what you don't like about BM.

Looking to defend your fellow scum?
Restates it:

Zachrulez, now that you are here, could you anwser?

Though I will say right now that I'm not liking what I am seeing from Battle Mage so far.

Tell me, what you don't like about BM.

don't really like the last followers of the Mastin wagon, DDD & SF. I don't think falling behind after being V/LA and having other games where to catch up is a relieable meta-tell at this point and doesn't deserve that amount of votes while he isn't posting.
I think Alex is thinking along those lines. But was going against the wagon a little to hard. He is more attacking the "intentions" of the wagon followers then defending Mastin himself.

Way to conveniently get on both sides of the alex issue.

Nah, I agree with Alex stand. Mastin is being overlay voted for lurking and his stand on N0 NK's. In your case just for lurking IIRC. I haven't pressed <caps lock> to defend Alex. But I'm on his site, he is getting (to much) attention with the overreacted defence. What was misplaced, what I said earlier.

^^Forced to become more definite when pressured.

Meh, no lynching of BM today imo. And Mastin has to catch up faster then the thread is growing for a time. Getting at L-2 with plain lurking is quite a achievement. I don't feel a Mastin lynch that strong.

(BM alliance, knowledge of mastin)

@alexhans, try making a post. Then look at it and delete everything out of it that isn't necessarily needed. Or make some summary at the end of your posts. Just make it possible I have to read less of it.

^Comical, will probably add to conclusion.
****Nah, he directed Alex post and referred back to most lines. He mentions and comments little things. But isn't pushing him on small points. More a startup for a fluffy-wall-war.
Re-looking his case lost power because of this "fluff", you couldn't find the point in it. You pressure with cases without a solid point inside, and with pressure get attention. The basis for wanting to lynch Alex, the overreaction on Mastin. Is more solid then any of your cases.
I'm not voting you for a page2 case on me. Otherwise my vote would never left you. Anyway, can you link me to a game where you're town and one where you're scum?***********Post 28 further BM Defense********
Fluff
Fluff
Fluff

This is pretty much my lynching list. I think this is what some people asked for different reasons.
Mastin
Gieff
Alexhans

Not the worst list at the time given, or the information available.

Conclusion: Ends the day not voting. If Jammer is scum, I think possible scum partners could include KmD, Zach, Sensfan…maybe Battle Mage but not as strongly as the other three. Although I initially thought BM a likely scum partner in the beginning the two butted-heads a little bit towards the end of the day. I’m certaintly not ruling out Battle Mage, maybe other iso’s will be more insightful Also if he is scum, I think it likely that Alex, Gieff, VP and…maybe SpryeX are town, but not as strong as the others. Vice versa on reads if reverse allegiance is shown.

To note: No effective read on DDD. Simply, I don’t remember much of him from the game, due to his lacking input. All I recall is his “ask me questions”…no insight gained on him through jammer’s iso.
Clearly no read on Ceph, 5 total posts. *sigh*
No read on BCC, however jammer does ask Kaiyruu a question in that distraction post aforementioned. Though I think it is a null-tell, could be a viable address as scum or town.
^^This actually made me want to look at Kai’s iso…which is quite brief, I won’t mention much, but feel free to look at it. It did sound town to me, so I’ll note that much in bcc’s defense. Replacing out for not being able to keep up is something town should always do and Mastin as hindered us somewhat for failing to do this.

For looking at Kai, I also looked at bcc…as useless as it may seem, and as little information as there is. After complaining about the walls of texts and catching up etc etc he makes one mid brief analysis, promises more but doesn’t.
Thinks Camn/Alex could be scum, and lots of town feelings. Overall null…not enough information.

[Benmage]

Damn messed up where you see all the *************(those were notes for me) and is a reference to post 28, that was copy'd from jammers iso 28, and further hints at him buddying battle mage.

[Benmage]

The next real person I wanted to read in iso was SensFan.

Opens strongly against NK speculation. Is this a commonality of his?
First votes for jammer. Supports this decision with his “gut”.
Believes 3:12 steup is most logical.
Has no qualm with hammering.
Believes pressure on BM is stupid.

Alex, jammer, GIEFF.

There's a Scum in that group.

(has vote on Gieff)
Initial scum opinions.

Mastin, alex, jammer, GIEFF.

There's at least one, if not two or all three, in there.

The Mastin wagon appears to be biggest, so

Unvote, Vote: Mastin

.

---

Adds Mastin to his scum opinions, based largely on others occurrings in the thread.
Defends his position on Mastin. 1st vs VPB, than vs Alex.
Returns vote to Gieff. Semi-peculiar.
3 posts later, hops back to Mastin. Previous defense involved him not being voter-happy:

Unvote: Vote Mastin

Will come back to GIEFF tomorrow.

Scum trying to push the lead wagon?

Oops, didn't realize that was a L-1 vote.

Unvote.

^^Maybe not…or maybe just trying to look town.

Continues to push Mastin wagon, site-ing his lurkieness while posting elsewhere on the site.

Fluff/odds with Alex.
Re-states Mastin is lurker scum.
QuitE! Apposed to the Camn wagon. Protecting fellow scum?

Not interested in a jammer lynch today.

^ ok…no jammer lynch. Noted.
Two posts and 9 minutes later:

Alex and jammer would be obvious lynches in 95% of D1s.

The fact the game also features Mastin and Benmage means they might live a little longer than their play deserves.

Alex and

jammer

95% lynched D1?? But Mastin and I??? are neglecting this. Is this the first time SF even mentions me…I though you weren’t interested in a jammer lynch.

Christ, guys. Stop spamming this thread, and let's agree on a fucking lynch.

Mastin or Alex should be lynched.
Jammer and Benmage lynches would be fine as well.
People who aren't named's lynch wouldn't affect this game, since they aren't posting. They probably shouldn't be lynched, but its better than nothing.
Perhaps surprisingly, I don't like a GIEFF lynch anymore, but will support if if needed.
I don't like a Zach lynch at all.
I will only vote BM/Camn/KMD/Sens at a deadline, to avoid a No Lynch.

Edited, since I forgot Zach.

Conclusion: Despite his continual opinion that Mastin was lurker scum, including his ending desire to see him lynched, he fails to be on the wagon, or have his vote anywhere at days end.

SF is a tough read for now. His posts don’t have nearly as much information as others. He comes off gruff…ok—null. In regards to SF being a scum partner of jammer’s I think the information from SF’s iso is null. He opens voting for him. Quarrels with him slightly, yet in the middle he states he doesn’t want to lynch jammer. He lists him high in his last post as possible lynches, but I think this can also be a null point. As far as overall sentiment…I do get a feeling from reading his iso in regards to jammer as slightly less that they are scum partners, but overall null as further information/development is necessary.

I doubt that SF could be scum partners with Alex or Gieff. I’m less inclined to believe he could be partners with scum partners with VPB, but there isn’t enough information to make that read substantial. I think he could be scum with Camn….maybe BM, a slight reach here. Again, overall too little information regarding too many other players to get any sort of town/scum reads with most.

Ending: He might be scum, there isn’t a whole lot of information to get concrete reads on. Yet that might be scummy itself. Overall null on SF being town or scum.

[Benmage]

The next one's VP B...I didn't finish his conclusion section(might add a little overall sentiment) As i fix my quotes I won't edit his section or my comments with his role being revealed. I'll probably reflect on everything and the days events in a future post.

[Benmage]

VP Baltar:

Opens commenting on of course the NK speculation.

The kill would be most likely to come from someone who knows hascow. Furthermore, I believe that a senior player on the scum team would have more sway and would help direct the kill toward someone like hascow, as opposed to someone a newer person might be more inclined to kill based on overall site rep alone.

So who do you think this senior player could be? Battle Mage, SensFan…yourself?

Defends jammer against Gieff’s rather weakcase suggesting 4 possible scum as a slip. Caught up on the semantics of “believable”

(Votes Battle Mage)

If that is your idea of a trap BM, then it's pretty lame. I want to reread this interaction between you two sometime today and get a little better feel for what each of you are arguing.

I agree the trap was weak. Battle Mage doesn’t get town credit for this. What are your feelings regarding the interaction now?

I think his "NuTsOcApS", as benmage put it, was overboard and weird, boardering on being scummy. Other than that, I get the vibe that they sort of feed off each other since they have similar posting styles and perhaps he is letting his personal feelings toward Mastin paint his perception of his alignment. It is something that is worth keeping in mind, but I don't think it is a lynch worthy offense.

^^A relatively early D1 comment. He doesn’t think Alex’s drastic defense of Mastin, however “overboard and weird, boardering on being scummy”, worthy of a lynch. Peculiar…perhaps subtly defending his scum buddy.

I have recently discovered that Mastin's scum meta is to fall behind and lurk. I might not be opposed to his lynch given I have seen this prove accurate twice.

What exactly was the point of this…Seems like a decent tactic for you as scum to further the Mastin wagon.
Mmm found this a little later, the point is convicing:

Point is, neither of these is very convincing that Mastin lurks regularly as town. On the other hand, EVERY game in his wiki as scum shows him as lurking. I don't get how you come to the conclusion that this is somehow null. Your turn to actually prove your point.

How does that question spur a fight.

Well, let's see, camn has already clearly stated how and why she disagrees GIEFF's case. They both agree to let it rest. You come in and say, "hey, gee camn, what do you think of his case? "

You are clearly trying to stir an argument that isn't helping discussion to really move ahead at all, meanwhile resting safely on the sidelines. If you have a problem with GIEFF's case, then make your arguments and don't nudge camn into doing it for you.

those 2 options came to my mind, see it as how I looked at the situation. And suspected the way camn was thinking about Gieff

Wait, so you are suspicious of camn? If so, why do both of your presented options presume camn to be town?

Meh, no lynching of BM today imo.

Well, that is stellar reasoning. You are incorrect.

And Mastin has to catch up faster then the thread is growing for a time. Getting at L-2 with plain lurking is quite a achievement. I don't feel a Mastin lynch that strong.

How do you feel about him promising this game is the next point of order and proceeding to post elsewhere on the site?

At odds with jammer for multiple things. Dislikes jammer trying to rehash the camn/gieff fluff…a good point.
Dislikes jammer writing off a possible Battle Mage lynch. Another good point. If you look back to jammer’s conclusion, he and battle mage are possible scum partners. This also re-affirms the likelihood that whatever VP and jammers allegiances turn out to be the other is likely to be the opposite.

Explain please. I don't follow.

You are saying the other wagon is just like the Mastin wagon, which it's not. By doing so, you are implicitly buddying with GIEFF. Understand?

Says a player who lays on the sidelines and is content with adding small talk letting other people decide the lynches...

You're right, this game needs more walls of text like your last one. My scumhunting is going along just fine, thanks. Also, way to divert attention away from your scummy behaviour without addressing the point.

hey... calling cases crap is NEVER a good defense... you should know that by now... Was it necesary to add the words probable mislynch?

Isn't that basically what you've done this whole time about the Mastin wagon?


Alex, I would like to hear your case against SensFan in 200 words or less.

Thanks

Odds with Alex. I think VP’s iso and game influence hasn’t been too bad. He’s hasn’t wall o text’d but he hasn’t been entirely absent.
(votes Alexhans)

New rule in effect for the remainder of D1, if I can't read your whole post by scrolling once or less, it's not happening. If I missed something you really want addressed, you had better requote it.

^^ meh lame..Some of the posts are a little large, but we shouldn’t cater our play styles to fit you and this comment of ‘not reading them’ really isn’t helpful.

And yet he still lives. MORE PEOPLE VOTE MASTIN.

Back to pushing this aye.

reason being?

You’re scum

Noted.

People who need to die immediately:
Mastin or Alex or Cephrir or anyone with the initials BM

Mastin or alex ok…Cephrir, wtf..he has 4 posts at this point. This is crazy scum sidetracking. The B.M.’s…meh I’m town.

ATTENTION TOWN: WE'RE NOT LYNCHING CAMN TODAY.

More votes on people who are actually scum: Alex, Mastin or Bowel Movements.

I'll address the rest of this crap later.

Scum buddy?

Dearest GIEFF,

You and camn are both town. I've read your case. It's weak sauce and you can't let it go. There are some points that are mildly valid, but nothing that warrants a lynch. Meanwhile, Mastin is scum and you know it.

Another camn defense. But you also write off Gieff…peculiar who you state as “need to die immediately” and who you assume to be town.

@DDD-is this sort of sit back and see what happens attitude typical of your town play?

^^good, bring in the less active players.

Just a point I felt like making right now to show the relative difficulty in reading and staying caught up in this entire game.

How long do you think it takes to read a word document that is 20 pages long?

That's probably not even one of the bigger pages either...

^Voice of reason

You haven’t commented much opinion on Zach, except asking for more input. Is he a scum buddy of yours?

why would you want to shut up KMD? She has just joined the game.

Well, I think

HE

isn't actually doing much scum hunting right now. He's has mostly only been defending camn and calling GIEFF scum for attacking her. It is frankly quite obvious that both GIEFF and camn are likely town, so I don't see this as particularly useful behavior.

Again how are Gieff and Camn so obvious town…Scum insight?
(unvotes Alex, votes Mastin)
Fluff
Fluff

Attn: GIEFF, benmage, spyrex, and camn---the time has come to do the right thing and vote Mastin. Scum are clearly trying to make this day utterly useless and Mastin's lynch will tell us information about his most ardent defenders. Furthermore, Mastin's scum meta is to lurk when he gets behind. Be pro-town and help this game move forward.

^pushing the wagon.

This is dumb. Even if you believe Mastin is scum, there is no way that continuing the day is anti-town.

With how long you have been on this site you'd think you at least had some sort of grasp on optimal town strategy. Also, continuing the day when I feel lynching hyposcum-Mastin doesn't help the town at all. We have seen you and alex defending him for god knows what reasons, so if he flips scum we know exactly who to string up tomorrow.

^^made me chuckle. If VP and Battle Mage turn out to be scum-partners in some sort of insult masquerade, that would be masterful.

Haha, if you're gonna play the IC card, might i note that with your, comparatively limited experience, you would do well to take note of what i say concerning game strategy.

If you appeared to have any apptitude for the game, I might consider listening to you. As it is, it's unlikely.

Confirmed.
Fluff
Fluff

re:alex--I'm not against his lynch today. My lynch preference order right now is Mastin, alex, benmage.

Mastin wagon is still in the lead and makes a great deal of sense if people would cease getting distracted by

GIEFF.

And yet you don’t find Gieff scummy for distracting the wagon…very odd.
Fluff
Fluff
Pushing mastin wagon

Conclusion:

[Benmage]

I wanted to do KmD, but got a little lazy.

[Benmage]

Conclusion with VP's death. Well he was at odds with alex and jammer. I think there's good chances one of those could be scum.

[Benmage]

The fear of dying, and all my tedious work, also made me not want to continue my iso reads...maybe now that I am alive! I'll re-look at people like KmD.

Anyways! Hopefulyl Ceph and BCC confirming they want to play, caught up some during the night and have some insight.

Read what I wrote..and let's gogo D2.

[GIEFF]

Benmage - why jammer, Sens, VP, and Kmd?

[Benmage]

Benmage - why jammer, Sens, VP, and Kmd?

I promised..I believe Battle Mage?(might be incorrect) to review his iso. At jammers conclusion I wanted to do some of those listed as possible scum partners i.e KmD and SF. This was one reason. Another point was their iso's are only in the 40ish posts...much easier to cipher through.(went through all those mini-heavy lurker people at this point too)

I did SF next because I didn't feel I had a good read on him...his iso left me in a similar position, but at least now I know to ask more of him, and hope he contributes further.

Again, I wanted to do KmD, but it was a little longer than VBP's and I what I did recall was the Camn defense and I really didn't want to reread that scenario, so I went with VBP first who I felt I also did not have a good read on.

I had ZERO desire to look at you iso (i think its nearing 200 )...but anyways these people, posted were active..yet I didn't have a strong grasp on recollecting their positions...the fluff of this game has had a way of doing it....So yeah thats why I did these people.

[Benmage]

@Battle Mage

I get a bloody point for those iso's! and doing something constructive during the night phase.

Battle Mage =1.5 Benmage =1.5

[camn]

You call that 'constructive'? Really?

And a real question..

Are you really so shocked that you weren't nightkilled, Benmage?
For serious.

[Benmage]

You call that 'constructive'? Really?

And a real question..

Are you really so shocked that you weren't nightkilled, Benmage?
For serious.

Come on...how isn't it in some way beneficial?

Not particularly surprised I suppose...but more happy, since my efforts would've been a watse of time and would've depressed me.

Btw, you still voting with me today?? please

[camn]

Maybe.

If you aren't surprised.. which I agree that you are not...

why did you write:

Oh wow, glad i lvied tonight.

... especially the "oh wow"???

[Benmage]

Maybe.

If you aren't surprised.. which I agree that you are not...

why did you write:

Oh wow, glad i lvied tonight.

... especially the "oh wow"???

Don't have a reason for the 'oh wow' i'd guess intital joy/zealous in being alive and being able to share my work. Clearly much thought wasn't put into that opener post as "lived" is rushed through and spelt wrong.

[jammer]

^^ trying to draw the attention elsewhere? Seems to work, moves down to 3 posts for your second day of posting. You than have a day where you post once. Some days you skip, the max I’m re-seeing for a bit is 3 posts. Trying to stay a bit off radar are we?

You accuse me of lurking....
Can anyone second that?

Anyway, I missed your conclusion. Who is scum?


@Spyrex, the "lurkers must post"comment was not reffering to you. I actually unvoted you a few posts before I said that.

[Benmage]

^^ trying to draw the attention elsewhere? Seems to work, moves down to 3 posts for your second day of posting. You than have a day where you post once. Some days you skip, the max I’m re-seeing for a bit is 3 posts. Trying to stay a bit off radar are we?

You accuse me of lurking....
Can anyone second that?

Anyway, I missed your conclusion. Who is scum?

Lurkinesss..not necessarily, but being less active when pressured..putting the pressure elswhere,sure...posting without contributing/scum-hunting...ok.

The overall conclusion was never gotten to as i didn't even get to all the iso's I had wanted to. This is just some personal iso insight and for things to look at and note connections.

However of the ones read, yours is clearly scummiest.