Mini 811: Foggy Londontown Mafia - Over!

[iamausername]

If he had time to contribute something meaningful, why would he even need to tell us he was busy?

Vote Count Two

Tenchi: 2 (kikuchiyo, qwints)
kikuchiyo: 1 (iamausername)
dank: 1 (SerialClergyman)

Not Voting: 4 (dank, Gwynplaine, Nikanor, Tenchi)

With 8 alive it's 5 to lynch.

Current Deadline: Monday, August 10 4:00 PM EST

[Gwynplaine]

I'm not liking the sudden Tenchi-hate, either. Qwints is voting him for commenting about the night results, as far as I can see, which I always thought was a pretty flimsy "scum tell." And then kikuchiyo votes him for lurking, after he said he was busy and would be back on Thursday. Now maybe you don't believe him, that's fine, but announcing that you're going to be unavailable for a couple of days is generally considered a.) polite; and b.) not "lurking", per se.

I'm willing to be convinced, so if either of you can present a more detailed case against Tenchi, I'll certainly read it with an open mind. If not, it kind of looks like piling on the guy who's not around to defend himself.

[kikuchiyo]

Personally, I wouldn't have believed them.

You realise the only reason for them to both lie like that would be if they were both scum, right?

No. They could be mistaken. Lover is a variable role. I would have pushed the issue more. That may have led to either thier lynch or someone else ending up in the hotseat. Changing the circumstances of the early day may have changed its outcome. What is your point?

Iam: Players determine themselves when they claim. You are creating some sort of false dilemma in which I am the antagonist. Poor play.

Tenchi is not "not around". He is here and he is avoiding this game for some reason. Also:

Posts 20 and 21 of Tenchi in iso. Its not a straightforward claim, but the way its worded sounded to me like something the real doc would say. Combine that with lurking and it seemed to me that Tenchi may have been playing to a power role. Obviously not, now he just wants to pass off his lurking as "I was busy". Reasonable, but I found his attacks on me to be scummy.

I voted Tenchi first, not second. I unvoted due to his absence. When he chimed in with nothing, I replaced my vote.

[iamausername]

Tenchi is not "not around". He is here and he is avoiding this game for some reason.

He said he's busy, and will be back Thursday. What makes you think he's lying?

[SerialClergyman]

The only thing stopping me voting for kiku is that in the last game I played with her she was scum and she played quite differently.. She was much more reserved and only made the odd insightful comment. She is so aggressive here it's really a marked difference.

Having said that, she lost the last game, so could well be trying to switch it up, but I'm continuing my hypothesis that she's town.

dank, on the other hand, blames unfamiliarity with the hider role, but a) it's not that hard ot think through, especially when you have iamusername and myself discussing in thread the benefits of one role over another at the end of D1. b) you've had all of the night ot think about it yet at the start of D2 you were still indicating that was your position and c) You've fallen straight on a Tenchi wagon that appeared out of nowhere.

I think people looking at the Tenchi wagon could be doing so because they are worried about how they will look when we analyse the last day. There should be enough information there to strike scum, I think, and that does mean kiku and dank, in my opinion. I'm sticking with my vote for now.

[kikuchiyo]

This game is a mess for town.

Our power roles were outed by poor play, to imply that I am some sort of scum mastermind bent on outing masons is absolutely ridiculous. Tenchi pushed that a bit yesterday and seems content to ride it today. He was around Tuesday posting up to twelve hours after he posted his "I'll be back Thursday" comment. He can come back, but I have a feeling he's going to sing the same old song. Like I said, he lurked the majority of the day, accused me of outing masons which is in and of itself just stupid as masons confirm each other and therefore probably the absolute worst power role scum would want to out, didn't seem sure about much of anything until he jumped the wagon of the uncounterclaimed doc.

SC is now using fear mongering which will be an effective scum tool given that four town power roles have been lost already. There is no need to fear monger to get your votes unless your case is weak. Problem now is that, as a townie, attacking people pushing a case on me is going to be construed as omgus.

For those not voting Tenchi: Why are you so confident that he is not scum? What exactly has he done that is "pro-town"?

[SerialClergyman]

Godammit kiku that post was frustrating. It's not like you can sit back blithley and ignore your role in our predicament. You went out and attacked the power roles, forcing some to claim and one to be lynched. Now there's no use crying about spilt milk, and you certainly weren't alone, but you also can't sit there and call out everyone else for being rubbish when you were one of the biggest culprits.

 

Regardless of that point, though, your argument is all over the place. Just a couple of posts ago you were saying you were confused as all hell, but now you’re asking why everyone else is so sure that Tenchi isn’t scum? I think there’s very few people who are sure of anything – the issue is how the wagon came about and who is on it. Tenchi hasn’t done much overly suspicious apart from lurking, and given he’s provided reasons for that I don’t think it’s anything worse than a null-tell. Then it just so happens that the two people most suspicious from the bandwagons yesterday in my eyes both jump onto a case against Tenchi?

 

Given the drama of the end of yesterday, the competing wagons on different townie power roles and the possibility that attention was being turned away from nadroj/gwyn, why on earth would you use really weak tells like lurking to make a decision on day 2? It doesn’t add up.

 

And finally, what do you mean fear mongering? Quote please. My suspicions on you and dank are based on my post 627, actual analysis of concrete events that happened yesterday. You should perhaps try it when making a case, rather than hoping ‘he’s lurking’ will get you over the line.

[kikuchiyo]

Godammit kiku that post was frustrating. It's not like you can sit back blithley and ignore your role in our predicament. You went out and attacked the power roles, forcing some to claim and one to be lynched. Now there's no use crying about spilt milk, and you certainly weren't alone, but you also can't sit there and call out everyone else for being rubbish when you were one of the biggest culprits.

Sorry, but no. Hero was a member of an informed minority and was defending a player whose alignment he didn't know. That was scummy. Both Lowell and FC were acting scummy and lurking as well. I didn't attack "power roles", I attacked the scummiest players.

 

Just a couple of posts ago you were saying you were confused as all hell, but now you’re asking why everyone else is so sure that Tenchi isn’t scum?

You are ignoring the case. His selfsuredness in lynching the uncounterclaimed doc after a day of lurking.

Then it just so happens that the two people most suspicious from the bandwagons yesterday in my eyes both jump onto a case against Tenchi?

Get your eyes checked. You yourself are supposedly suspicious of Gwyn.

 

why on earth would you use really weak tells like lurking to make a decision on day 2? It doesn’t add up.

Of course not. Nothing adds up when you don't use all the ingredients. The case on Tenchi is not "lurking". Once you accept that you may realize that.. oh wait. You are most likely scum.

 

And finally, what do you mean fear mongering?

Basically the fact that if dank and I don't toe the line for you then you will build cases against us.

Quote please. My suspicions on you and dank are based on my post 627, actual analysis of concrete events that happened yesterday. You should perhaps try it when making a case, rather than hoping ‘he’s lurking’ will get you over the line.

You really like to refer to the case on Tenchi as "lurking". Did you forget the little content he has produced? Have you forgotten his anti-town stance on mason claims? Have you missed how he accused me of rolefishing masons when masons are the worst possible role for scum to out as it not only confirms multiple townies but hampers their nk choices?

Even if the case on Tenchi was only "lurking", how does it benefit town for you to defend him?

[Gwynplaine]

For those not voting Tenchi: Why are you so confident that he is not scum? What exactly has he done that is "pro-town"?

You phrase this as if voting for Tenchi were the default position and the rest of us had made a conscious decision not to do so. In fact, the burden of proof lies on you and/or qwints to convince us why we should vote for him.

It's not that I'm confident that he's not scum, it's that I'm not confident that he is. Yes, I'd like him to contribute more, but I'd like everybody to contribute more. If it comes to that, there are probably people who'll say I should contribute more myself.

He's said that he'll be back today. I for one am willing to wait a few hours and see if he has anything to say. It's not as if a little patience were a luxury that we can't afford. The deadline's still eleven days away and if we somehow managed to hit the deadline with no votes changing, Tenchi would be lynched, having the most votes and more than one.

[Gwynplaine]

EBWOP: Cross-posted with Kikuchiyo going into more detail on the Tenchi case. I'll probably have more to say later if/when Tenchi shows up.

[kikuchiyo]

^^ Sorry. Not trying to push a quicklynch here. I presented a case on Tenchi. If you don't buy it that's fine, but the "burden of proof" lies on all of us. Am I to understand that you expect me to do your scumhunting for you? This post seems to be a bit fluffy. Why are you "waiting" for Tenchi? Can't you reread the game and post some analysis?

SC: Did you mean qwints? Dank isn't on the Tenchi wagon is he?

[iamausername]

The only thing stopping me voting for kiku is that in the last game I played with her she was scum and she played quite differently.. She was much more reserved and only made the odd insightful comment. She is so aggressive here it's really a marked difference.

Can I get a link to that game?

For those not voting Tenchi: Why are you so confident that he is not scum? What exactly has he done that is "pro-town"?

Not voted for a claimed information role, for one.

The case on Tenchi is not "lurking".

Thinking that masons shouldn't claim on D1 is not a scum tell.

Tenchi voted a claimed power role yesterday, yes, but so did

everybody else in the game

.

I'm not seeing any other points besides "lurking".

Once you accept that you may realize that.. oh wait. You [SC] are most likely scum.

Since when?

[kikuchiyo]

Go ahead and lynch me. You are all sitting back and asking me to figure this game out for you. If you don't agree about Tenchi thats fine. Tell me who you find suspicious and why.

Sorry, but I find anyone pushing a case on me today to be scummy. Like I said, I attacked the scummiest players yesterday. I outed an informed minority, it just happened to be the wrong one. I am pretty much done here. At this point, I am pulling for the werewolf.

[qwints]

It's true that the main reason that I'm attacking Tenchi is his lurking -- his absence as deadline approached was conspicuous. Furthermore, he stated he was surprised by Lowell's lynch when he himself attacked Lowell. I find the level of defense Tenchi has gotten bizarre -- even if he is just lurking, why not make him defend himself instead of doing his job for him. There was no way Tenchi would ever be lynched before he had a chance to respond. Pressuring lurkers is not scummy.

@ Kiku, dank attacked Tenchi in post 649 but did not vote.

[SerialClergyman]

You really like to refer to the case on Tenchi as "lurking". Did you forget the little content he has produced?

*facepalm* Aside from that point, the others you brought up were to me not particularly persuasive. I think your opinion about the mason claim has been far worse than Tenchi's, and I don't see how his posts 20 and 21 look like a claim, and even if they did to you, I odn't see how that makes him scummy.

Even if the case on Tenchi was only "lurking", how does it benefit town for you to defend him?

I was specifically responding to a question YOU ASKED. In the post directly above mine. You wrote:

For those not voting Tenchi: Why are you so confident that he is not scum?

You case is unimpressive, so I told you. Nice clutching at straws.

Speaking of clutching at straws -

SC wrote:
Then it just so happens that the two people most suspicious from the bandwagons yesterday in my eyes both jump onto a case against Tenchi?

Get your eyes checked. You yourself are supposedly suspicious of Gwyn.

This not only doesn't address the point I was making, it's not even true.

And so my suspicion is resting on kiku and dank at the moment.

I said that before any bandwagon started.

Basically the fact that if dank and I don't toe the line for you then you will build cases against us.

What? I'm suspicious of you two because of your manuevering yesterday between the two power roles. Dank for his sitting on the fence and you for going from we can't lynch the doc to we should lynch the doc to we can't lynch him but we should defienitely get a doc claim from any real PRs tomorrow. Where on earth did you pull fear mongering from?

And to top it all off - you were the one who tried to pull a 'why are you defending him' charge after asking for reasons why he isn't being voted. Now that's pushing a fear agenda.

All this causes me to happily switch my vote from the suspiciously passive dank to the ultra-suspiciously overactive kiku.

unvote dank, vote: kiku

[qwints]

Go ahead and lynch me.
...
At this point, I am pulling for the werewolf.

Ok,

unvote, vote kiku

Your reverse psychology will not work on me.

[SerialClergyman]

Ok, simulpost city.

iamusername - here's the link:
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11154

kiku, you're totally right about qwints.. I thought that dank was on Tenchi's wagon, not qwints, I'm totally wrong. Sorry about that dank.

[iamausername]

I thought that dank was on Tenchi's wagon, not qwints, I'm totally wrong. Sorry about that dank.

dank might not actually be voting Tenchi, but he is still very much on the wagon in spirit.

[SerialClergyman]

Ah, that was it.. he was the one who was accusing Tenchi without voting (epic surprise given how carefree he is with his vote usually ). I have less time for mafia and it's 2 in the morning, os I was going on memory.

semi-withdrawn apology to dank

[kikuchiyo]

You really like to refer to the case on Tenchi as "lurking". Did you forget the little content he has produced?

*facepalm* Aside from that point, the others you brought up were to me not particularly persuasive. I think your opinion about the mason claim has been far worse than Tenchi's, and I don't see how his posts 20 and 21 look like a claim, and even if they did to you, I odn't see how that makes him scummy.

Fair enough. However, you don't think it scummy when someone seems to soft claim a role they don't have?


SC: What would you do in my position? I am vanilla townie and I played the role to a T. I was completely wrong on who I thought scum was on day 1. Like I said before: Go ahead and lynch me. The best we can hope for is a scum/wolf crosskill to keep town viable.

I was mistaken on your suspecting Gwyn. I reread your earlier post you referenced and realize you cleared them due to their "believable" days end activities. Further, I realize that I was completely wrong on the hider. It would have been more helpful than doc. Hindsight is 20/20. Good luck. I think you are town.

[iamausername]

I think you [SC] are town.

Again, I ask; since when?

[qwints]

Kiku, this abject apology simply does not fit your behavior day 1. I also hate the whole "go ahead and lynch me" thing. My vote stays.

[kikuchiyo]

Since rereading his posts and realizing his positions have been less dynamic than I originally thought. I am messing up at this point in time and his points against me are actually valid(some of them). Do you have anything else to offer? Seriously, I feel like we are playing "kiku has to find the scum or we are going to lynch her."

[SerialClergyman]

Well, if he was obvious and intentionally softclaiming a role he didn't have, that would be scummy. But I think he had no intention whatsoever of that, you misread it and now he's getting blamed for it.

kiku - what's with the change in disposition? Literally a couple of posts ago you were saying i was most likely scum? I don't mean to pile on the crap if you're town and feeling defeated, so sorry if that's the case, but it's another complete and total shift in your thinking and it looks like a last-ditch appeal to emotion.

If I were you and if you were town, I would first and foremost acknowledge that your death is not the end of the world, and you can still help your team. If you're town, you're about to be confirmed so, so your opinions really matter. Thus I'd do a detailed list of who you think are the scummiest targets and why so that tomorrow we can look at them as an untainted opinion and use them to try to catch the scum. The team is bigger than you.

[SerialClergyman]

simulpost etc.