Newbie 800 ~ Mafia: The Reality Show (Game Over!)

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Post Post #375 (ISO) » Thu Jul 16, 2009 12:53 am

Post by Haylen »

The view on policy lynches is purely subjective, I'm just giving you my opinion to help you form your own. No, I wasn't saying 'don't lynch people for these reasons' of course there are some circumstances where you can use things as part of a case, but not on it's own. All I'm saying is be careful, try to know the whole situation before you make judgements.
Onion wrote: I guess my all in all objection to Haylen's suspicions is that she didn't include post numbers for me to reference.
Coming in a few hours, I'm meant to be tidying my room right now.

[quote"""]
i'm also not finding where in day 2 he advocates a policy lynch.
[/quote]
Day 1, it was day One.
yeah ok pronoun problems here. can you rephrase this so i can understand it better?
I'll rephrase when I'm not pretending to be cleaning my room.
my current suspicions are of Raskol for talking too much
I really hope you're aware how ridiculous that sounds. But I think I understand what you're getting at. You're saying he talks a lot so he isn't accused of lurking and wont be assumed as scummy because he's participating in the game, correct? If that's the case, please word it like that, it's important in these games that you aren't vague and you explain yourself well otherwise it just sounds bad.

I'll be back later to elaborate on my answers to Onion and any other's that people want to bring up.
Seriously. Read your role PM before playing.
I am sorry if you have to prod me, I have absolutely no concept of time.

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Post Post #376 (ISO) » Thu Jul 16, 2009 1:00 am

Post by Haylen »

Nikanor, ok thanks, i wont show my notes. I go overboard with helping sometimes. If anyone wants me to shut up on the advice anytime, just tell me. I'm technically not qualified to give it as I'm not an IC yet, but I know what I'm talking about.
Seriously. Read your role PM before playing.
I am sorry if you have to prod me, I have absolutely no concept of time.

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Post Post #377 (ISO) » Thu Jul 16, 2009 1:03 pm

Post by Nikanor »

Haylen wrote:I really hope you're aware how ridiculous that sounds. But I think I understand what you're getting at. You're saying he talks a lot so he isn't accused of lurking and wont be assumed as scummy because he's participating in the game, correct? If that's the case, please word it like that, it's important in these games that you aren't vague and you explain yourself well otherwise it just sounds bad.
>_<
This looks soooo scummy.
NEVER do this!
If you can't understand what someone says, ask them to clarify the statement for themselves.
You should NEVER clarify for another person; it is akin to answering questions for another person and it can get you lynched in a normal game.

@ric: Sorry that post is taking so long,
<--Slow reader.
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Post Post #378 (ISO) » Thu Jul 16, 2009 1:27 pm

Post by Haylen »

I see how that sounds now. Going overboard with helping, arent i?
Seriously. Read your role PM before playing.
I am sorry if you have to prod me, I have absolutely no concept of time.

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Post Post #379 (ISO) » Thu Jul 16, 2009 1:32 pm

Post by Nikanor »

Haylen wrote:I see how that sounds now. Going overboard with helping, arent i?
Yes, a little bit.
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Post Post #380 (ISO) » Thu Jul 16, 2009 1:36 pm

Post by Haylen »

Nikanor? I have a question. Are you finding it difficult to keep up with 5 games at once? Just saying cause if you are and can't post sometimes because of this, there's no shame in admitting it. Well completely understand. Most people manage 3 at the most, i can do 4 at a push. It's quite common for newbies to do that before knowing their limit. Please dom't think I'm dragging myself into your business, i'm just expressing my concern.
Seriously. Read your role PM before playing.
I am sorry if you have to prod me, I have absolutely no concept of time.

My prefered pronoun set is "cie/cir/cirs[elf]" but they is more than acceptable.
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Post Post #381 (ISO) » Thu Jul 16, 2009 1:44 pm

Post by Nikanor »

Haylen wrote:Nikanor? I have a question. Are you finding it difficult to keep up with 5 games at once? Just saying cause if you are and can't post sometimes because of this, there's no shame in admitting it. Well completely understand. Most people manage 3 at the most, i can do 4 at a push. It's quite common for newbies to do that before knowing their limit. Please dom't think I'm dragging myself into your business, i'm just expressing my concern.
Not at all. The reason why I'm posting mostly one-liners in my other games is because I'm trying to read through this one and form an analysis on four different people. :/
And, as mentioned, I'm a slow reader, because I have to think about things as I read them so that I remember them.
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Post Post #382 (ISO) » Thu Jul 16, 2009 2:11 pm

Post by Haylen »

Ah, Ok. Just don't overdo things, k? You'll exhaust yourself and make the game less enjoyable. Know your limits, or the other people in the game will screw you over. Been there, done that. I'm a slow typer and get easily distracted. This post, so far, has taken about 15 mins to write.

Yeah, i'm too tired to answer Onion right now. Going to reply tomorrow.
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Post Post #383 (ISO) » Thu Jul 16, 2009 2:56 pm

Post by Nikanor »

Haylen wrote:Just don't overdo things, k?
So motherly.
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Post Post #384 (ISO) » Thu Jul 16, 2009 3:12 pm

Post by Vi »

Vote Count:

onion (1) ~ Raskol

Lynch (1) ~ Haylen

ric (0) ~
Nikanor

Echo (0) ~
Nikanor


Not Voting:
Lynch, Echo, onion, ric, Nikanor
[size=0]Raskol 0 PROD1 2 | Lynch 3 PROD1 0 | Echo 0 | Haylen 0 | onion 0 PROD1 1 | Nikanor 0 | ric 1[/size]
-Lynch is being
lynched
prodded...

--With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.
--Deadline is Thursday, July 30 2009.
---A little less on the mentioning of other ongoing games, please.
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Post Post #385 (ISO) » Thu Jul 16, 2009 3:28 pm

Post by Echo »

Is it just me, or were the last few posts blatantly buddying-like?
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Post Post #386 (ISO) » Thu Jul 16, 2009 3:35 pm

Post by Nikanor »

Echo wrote:Is it just me, or were the last few posts blatantly buddying-like?
I thought it was just friendly chit-chat. Although it could be interpreted as buddying as well, I suppose.
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Post Post #387 (ISO) » Thu Jul 16, 2009 10:10 pm

Post by Eliminate »

Sorry, been busy outside the internet. Will try to get a good post in now.
Echo wrote:Is it just me, or were the last few posts blatantly buddying-like?
Not at all. Certainly no strategic worth within the previous banter.
haylen wrote:- Says he though both targets were town, and then says Onion should have been voted off yesterday (who he said he thought was town)
No, this completely misrepresented my position. I would have much preferred a lynch of sideney over onion, due to the latter's more pronounced contribution to discussion. I've never expressed a willingness to let onion be lynched, and indeed if I had the time or opportunity to, I would have tried to push for a day 1 lynch of Anticollie or Haylen instead. I find active lurking (mostly of Anticollie) to be much scummier than the detached lurking sideney exhibited.
haylen wrote:- Advocates policy lynches. Not only is insisting on a policy lynch scummy, but it is also poor form.
I disagree again. Not at all scummy in my view, because, like you've said previously, it's a subjective issue that has differing opinions and judgements of. You contradict yourself trying to raise points against me. Please also note that I advised a policy lynch of lurkers because the deadline was nearing and the votes were more or less in the early stages, if i recall correctly. Nevertheless, your point of replacing lurkers instead of lynching is valid, but we wouldn't have had enough time to and I doubt the mod would be able to force a player to adapt his own playstyle.
- I'm apparently on top of his scummy list, when he has a better case on Echo, and his case on Echo is better than his case on Anticollie. Yet Echo is only 3rd on his scum list. Bussing?
That 'scummy list' was formulated in the early stages of my introduction to the thread. It merely serves as a first impressions list, and so the details may be inconsistent or hazy here and there (which I probably had already forewarned). Cases that I bring forward have nothing to do with the list anyway.
- Says he was tunneling Onion. Bullcrap was he, and anyway, i thought he thought Onion was town? Also says that he's asked the town not to tunnel. That's a slip right there.
Misrepresentation again. I was warning Raskol not to tunnel on onion (which I'll admit wasn't truthfully appropriate for that time), and not myself. I do maintain that onion is pro-town, and don't see how advising town on the D2 lynch is a slip.



Props to Echo for starting some discussion regarding the meta of lurking.

However, I didn't like Nikanor's immediate vote on Echo for blatant misrepresentation. Sure, he acknowledged his error in the vote, but I feel the reasons surrounding it aren't satisfiable, especially when he tries to justify it by "eliciting a townie reaction from Echo". The vote-unvote had me thinking of distancing initially, especially when he regards Echo's response as a townie response. But I find this pairing unlikely anyway. Most of what pings my radar was just the inconsistency in Nikanor's perspective, with the vote-hopping for little to no apparent reasons.


Again, Haylen, I find it necessary to call for a policy lynch all lurkers at the context of when it was spoken: deadline nearing and discussion stalling. In fact, like Raskol, I'm of the belief that policy lynches for ACCEPTABLE matters (lurking/lying) usually benefit the town in the long-run. And hey, might even get a scum or two included as well.

onion wrote:i support his hammer because a no-lynch would still have been less useful.
onion wrote: i don't think Lynch is without suspicion, because he hammered and is sort of answering questions for me when he should not
Inconsistency there, regarding my placement of the hammer vote. Do you find the hammer vote suspicious because it brought town blood, or because you thought it was premature, or for reasons that you can outline to me soon? Also, it's hypocritical when you address all of Haylen's points of suspicion of me while I'm away, while you find my "defending" of you suspicious.



Primary fos at the moment goes to Nikanor, for inconsistency and what I think to be inputting on irrelevant issues, and avoiding the main game.
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Post Post #388 (ISO) » Fri Jul 17, 2009 12:28 pm

Post by onion »

my suspicions of Raskol primarily draw from page 14.
onion 349 wrote:my suspicions of Raskol are growing at this point in time, although him being so much more active than everyone else gives me more to draw from, and so it doesn't seem justified.
he just started posting a whole lot and shift in play style made me uneasy. well he also isn't answering my question so i guess that makes me uneasy with him also.

Lynch, your hammer warrants suspicion because it was placed at a point in time that negated my ability to chime in on the vote. if you hammered an hour before the deadline, then you'd be fine. but someone just might have thought of something over american explosion day and hammering early would be a way to prevent them from sharing. this suspicion is not large though and you seem to be reacting to it with more effort than warranted. short: it's good that someone hammered, but you hammered a few hours too early, and being confused is a wifom excuse.

Nikanor is my prime suspect at the moment, but i'd like him to show me his case on Ric some time because i want to understand a case on Ric.

Haylen i didn't mean to put so much on your shoulders with requesting post numbers and such. i would like them, but you can focus on chunks or something if you'd like.
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Post Post #389 (ISO) » Fri Jul 17, 2009 1:59 pm

Post by Vi »

Vote Count:

onion (1) ~ Raskol

Lynch (1) ~ Haylen

Nikanor (1) ~ Lynch


Not Voting:
Lynch,
Echo, onion, ric, Nikanor
[size=0]Raskol 1 PROD1 3 | Lynch 0 PROD1 1 | Echo 0 | Haylen 1 | onion 0 PROD1 2 | Nikanor 0 | ric 2[/size]
--With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.
--Deadline is Thursday, July 30 2009.
Everything you say and do matters. People will respond in ways you may never see. May those responses be what you intend.
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Post Post #390 (ISO) » Sat Jul 18, 2009 2:35 pm

Post by Vi »

Vi 1 wrote:8.
Deadlines:
Each Day has an automatic deadline of three weeks from the time it begins. Extensions will not likely be made.
However, the mod may move the deadline forward after two days' warning if overall activity is not satisfactory.
[size=0]Raskol 2 PROD1 4 | Lynch 1 PROD1 2 | Echo 1 | Haylen 2 | onion 1 PROD1 3 | Nikanor 1 | ric 3 PROD1 0[/size]
ric is being prodded...
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Post Post #391 (ISO) » Sun Jul 19, 2009 2:08 am

Post by Raskol »

I actually did answer your question, onion. I said yes, in fact the whole point of it is to allow for that possibility. In fact, I wrote a big long post explaining it which you responded to.

Either your memory is bad or...well, I don't even really know.
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Post Post #392 (ISO) » Sun Jul 19, 2009 2:27 am

Post by Raskol »

This game has lost a lot of steam. I can't understand how anyone could possibly complain about someone posting
too much
when we're in a game like this.

Haylen---you basically came out and said that policy lynching was scummy, and gave a big lecture on how bad it was. Then you defined policy lynching as lynching people for things like lurking and lying, which are major scum tells. Now you say that it's all subjective and you were just making a suggestion....?

Question: would you agree that giving town terrible advice that just happens to cover your ass (like telling people that lynching lurkers is bad (and even scummy!) when you've been lurking), then backing off to opinion-land when called on it is a scum-tell? How would you react if you saw someone else pull that?
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Post Post #393 (ISO) » Sun Jul 19, 2009 3:31 am

Post by Eliminate »

onion wrote:Lynch, your hammer warrants suspicion because it was placed at a point in time that negated my ability to chime in on the vote. if you hammered an hour before the deadline, then you'd be fine. but someone just might have thought of something over american explosion day and hammering early would be a way to prevent them from sharing. this suspicion is not large though and you seem to be reacting to it with more effort than warranted. short: it's good that someone hammered, but you hammered a few hours too early, and being confused is a wifom excuse.
How would I know you were anticipating and preparing a post on the situation? Timezones and such distorted my awareness of the deadline time, and upon being egged by both Nikanor and sideney himself, I thought it was necessary or wise to hammer then and there. It seems like you're making such a big deal for such a minor thing, especially when Nikanor had already admitted he thought the deadline was closer than it actually was.

And you say Nikanor is your main suspect now? What happened to Raskol and Haylen? How do you feel about them now?
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Post Post #394 (ISO) » Sun Jul 19, 2009 4:00 am

Post by Haylen »

Raskol wrote: Haylen---you basically came out and said that policy lynching was scummy, and gave a big lecture on how bad it was. Then you defined policy lynching as lynching people for things like lurking and lying, which are major scum tells. Now you say that it's all subjective and you were just making a suggestion....?
Raskol wrote: Question: would you agree that giving town terrible advice that just happens to cover your ass (like telling people that lynching lurkers is bad (and even scummy!) when you've been lurking), then backing off to opinion-land when called on it is a scum-tell? How would you react if you saw someone else pull that?
Hmm...I've done this alot: I make a point, go into it in a hell of a lot of depth and then make the point that the it's subjective but explain why. I meant that the view on whether the policies are subjective or not is affectively subjective in itself.

I don't think my advice is bad, it has been what others have given me and what I have learnt myself. I was practising before I become an IC, but now I've been told my advice I bad, I've decided I will make an aweful IC and should stick to just ordinary playing. This is going to be my last newbie game, guys.
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I am sorry if you have to prod me, I have absolutely no concept of time.

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Post Post #395 (ISO) » Sun Jul 19, 2009 4:56 am

Post by Nikanor »

Haylen wrote:I don't think my advice is bad, it has been what others have given me and what I have learnt myself. I was practising before I become an IC, but now I've been told my advice I bad, I've decided I will make an aweful IC and should stick to just ordinary playing. This is going to be my last newbie game, guys.
Erm, first of all, advice IS subjective, and a great number of people believe that lurker lynches are bad, so I don't see how Raskol can reasonably call your advice 'terrible'.
Second of all, finishing five games on this site does not make you an expert. You may be an IC after completing five games, but that doesn't mean you already know everything that could possibly be learned in this game. Most ICs are still learning about the game, so you shouldn't quit just because you haven't learned everything yet.
Those things said, your post was pretty much just a big ol' appeal to emotion.

@Everyone: I apologize for my lack of activity. My motivation levels for everything go down when the temperature goes up, and we've had some thirty-five degree weather up here for the last week. It's supposed to be cooler this week, though, so I'll be able to get some heavy posting done.
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Post Post #396 (ISO) » Sun Jul 19, 2009 5:15 am

Post by Haylen »

Nikanor wrote: your post was pretty much just a big ol' appeal to emotion.
I have no pepsi. As my sig says, I am pretty emotional right now. Withdrawal symptoms. Sorry. I'll come back and post again when I can think straight ect.
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Post Post #397 (ISO) » Sun Jul 19, 2009 9:31 am

Post by Vi »

ric has requested replacement. Please hold...
*catchy background music*
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Post Post #398 (ISO) » Sun Jul 19, 2009 9:33 am

Post by ric »

i just wanted to make a last post. if thats ok. things have gotten busy at work. and they just got busier. sorry i havent been around but i have to be out now.

good luck. make a good case.
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Post Post #399 (ISO) » Sun Jul 19, 2009 10:15 am

Post by Vi »

ErikTheRed replaces ric. Please welcome him!
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