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[TDC]

That, and that with 14 alive, reducing to 13 doesn't change the votes required for lynch anyway.

[TDC]

Ignore the second one, lol.

[Yosarian2]

Yeah. What TDC said, Ren Hoek. The scum killed someone who was voting for you. If they had killed someone who was not voting for you, you would be dead right now.

Anyway, if the scum only get one kill a day, then the roles should be safe now, and tommorow there will be someone different in the roels anyway. So if the tracker saw anything, they should feel free to claim now; there's no risk to it now that the scum have already used their kill for the day.

[Ren Hoek]

As far as I can see, Seraphim was the first vote on your wagon, which is why him getting killed didn't lynch you.

Oops. Yeah.

[Adel]

Yeah. What TDC said, Ren Hoek. The scum killed someone who was voting for you. If they had killed someone who was not voting for you, you would be dead right now.

Anyway, if the scum only get one kill a day, then the roles should be safe now, and tommorow there will be someone different in the roels anyway. So if the tracker saw anything, they should feel free to claim now; there's no risk to it now that the scum have already used their kill for the day.

tracker doesn't get results until end of day. Tracker should not claim until after he gets results.

[Yosarian2]

Yeah. What TDC said, Ren Hoek. The scum killed someone who was voting for you. If they had killed someone who was not voting for you, you would be dead right now.

Anyway, if the scum only get one kill a day, then the roles should be safe now, and tommorow there will be someone different in the roels anyway. So if the tracker saw anything, they should feel free to claim now; there's no risk to it now that the scum have already used their kill for the day.

tracker doesn't get results until end of day. Tracker should not claim until after he gets results.

Ah, good call.

[FaerieLord]

why do you think that vollkan wasn't the kill choice for the scum?

I am honestly not sure why they chose seraphim considering he is the weakest link (in my opinion) from that list.

(Also, still V/LA. Have unexpected internet access for the next few hours)

[Adel]

why do you think that vollkan wasn't the kill choice for the scum?

I am honestly not sure why they chose seraphim considering he is the weakest link (in my opinion) from that list.

(Also, still V/LA. Have unexpected internet access for the next few hours)

why do you think he is weaker than Ren Hoek?

[Adel]

why do you think that vollkan wasn't the kill choice for the scum?

I am honestly not sure why they chose seraphim considering he is the weakest link (in my opinion) from that list.

(Also, still V/LA. Have unexpected internet access for the next few hours)

this doesn't jive with

Ok, I got how Adel's plan works, and I think it's the best plan presented yet, partially because it's the only one I have fully understood

The most valuable role would probably end up getting switched with one of the weakest players... and I think you understood that.

unvote, vote:FaerieLord

[vollkan]

why do you think that vollkan wasn't the kill choice for the scum?

I am honestly not sure why they chose seraphim considering he is the weakest link (in my opinion) from that list.

(Also, still V/LA. Have unexpected internet access for the next few hours)

this doesn't jive with

Ok, I got how Adel's plan works, and I think it's the best plan presented yet, partially because it's the only one I have fully understood

The most valuable role would probably end up getting switched with one of the weakest players... and I think you understood that.

unvote, vote:FaerieLord

I get why FL's theory is wrong, but I'm not sure I get the thrust of your accusation - unless you are saying that FL's earlier statement about understanding your plan is effectively contradicted by her statement that the scum chose Seraphim.

[Adel]

unless you are saying that FL's earlier statement about understanding your plan is effectively contradicted by her statement that the scum chose Seraphim.

beg pardon?

[vollkan]

unless you are saying that FL's earlier statement about understanding your plan is effectively contradicted by her statement that the scum chose Seraphim.

beg pardon?

Well, if FL said she understood your plan, that entails that she understands that part of the rationale for the plan is that it allows for a situation where scum targeting a high profile target can have that target busdriven with a less high profile target. As such, it wouldn't make sense for her to appear so surprised by the death of Seraphim or, more accurately, for her to say that scum "chose" Seraphim (since, given the earlier statement, she should recognise the prospect of busdriving)

[Adel]

unless you are saying that FL's earlier statement about understanding your plan is effectively contradicted by her statement that the scum chose Seraphim.

beg pardon?

Well, if FL said she understood your plan, that entails that she understands that part of the rationale for the plan is that it allows for a situation where scum targeting a high profile target can have that target busdriven with a less high profile target. As such, it wouldn't make sense for her to appear so surprised by the death of Seraphim or, more accurately, for her to say that scum "chose" Seraphim (since, given the earlier statement, she should recognise the prospect of busdriving)

and why would a player that understood my plan claim to be surprised by a weaker player getting killed?

[vollkan]

unless you are saying that FL's earlier statement about understanding your plan is effectively contradicted by her statement that the scum chose Seraphim.

beg pardon?

Well, if FL said she understood your plan, that entails that she understands that part of the rationale for the plan is that it allows for a situation where scum targeting a high profile target can have that target busdriven with a less high profile target. As such, it wouldn't make sense for her to appear so surprised by the death of Seraphim or, more accurately, for her to say that scum "chose" Seraphim (since, given the earlier statement, she should recognise the prospect of busdriving)

and why would a player that understood my plan claim to be surprised by a weaker player getting killed?

Most likely, either to feign surprise generally (sort of like an "Oh damn, X was NKed!") or, more specifically and strategically, to smear more high profile targets who were not killed.

[Adel]

unless you are saying that FL's earlier statement about understanding your plan is effectively contradicted by her statement that the scum chose Seraphim.

beg pardon?

Well, if FL said she understood your plan, that entails that she understands that part of the rationale for the plan is that it allows for a situation where scum targeting a high profile target can have that target busdriven with a less high profile target. As such, it wouldn't make sense for her to appear so surprised by the death of Seraphim or, more accurately, for her to say that scum "chose" Seraphim (since, given the earlier statement, she should recognise the prospect of busdriving)

and why would a player that understood my plan claim to be surprised by a weaker player getting killed?

Most likely, either to feign surprise generally (sort of like an "Oh damn, X was NKed!") or, more specifically and strategically, to smear more high profile targets who were not killed.

do you think that it is probable that either of those would be motivated by a town aligned alignment?
Do you think it is more probable that he didn't understand my plan, but innocently thought that he did?

[Adel]

or, more specifically and strategically, to smear more high profile targets who were not killed.

like who?

[Budja]

and why would a player that understood my plan claim to be surprised by a weaker player getting killed?

A player who had not yet linked the two together upon seeing the kill. It took me a little while to join the dots and I did understand your plan so I'm seeing this as null.

[vollkan]

unless you are saying that FL's earlier statement about understanding your plan is effectively contradicted by her statement that the scum chose Seraphim.

beg pardon?

Well, if FL said she understood your plan, that entails that she understands that part of the rationale for the plan is that it allows for a situation where scum targeting a high profile target can have that target busdriven with a less high profile target. As such, it wouldn't make sense for her to appear so surprised by the death of Seraphim or, more accurately, for her to say that scum "chose" Seraphim (since, given the earlier statement, she should recognise the prospect of busdriving)

and why would a player that understood my plan claim to be surprised by a weaker player getting killed?

Most likely, either to feign surprise generally (sort of like an "Oh damn, X was NKed!") or, more specifically and strategically, to smear more high profile targets who were not killed.

do you think that it is probable that either of those would be motivated by a town aligned alignment?

To state the obvious, no.

Do you think it is more probable that he didn't understand my plan, but innocently thought that he did?

Frankly, no but what's keeping me from switching my vote is whether FL can justify it. In my head, though, I can't think of a way that a person could understand your plan and not get the point of the busdriving. I mean, the whole point of the busdriver is to serve as a means of frustrating scumkills. It strikes me as extremely unlikely that a player could not realise that but support the plan nonetheless (surely, if a player didn't understand the inclusion of a busdriver, they would ask for explanation).

[vollkan]

and why would a player that understood my plan claim to be surprised by a weaker player getting killed?

A player who had not yet linked the two together upon seeing the kill. It took me a little while to join the dots and I did understand your plan so I'm seeing this as null.

Good point

[Adel]

why do you think that vollkan wasn't the kill choice for the scum?

I am honestly not sure why they chose seraphim considering he is the weakest link (in my opinion) from that list.

(Also, still V/LA. Have unexpected internet access for the next few hours)

he refers to "that list" which I assume references

I think the optimal scum kill choice was a member of the accounts team

• vollkan - Head of Account Services
  crywolf20084 - Account Executive
  Ren Hoek - Account Executive
  Nuwen - Account Executive
  curiouskarmadog - Account Executive
  Seraphim - Account Executive

I think that they tried to pick who the most likely target for the bussdriver switch would be. Thankfully, the odds were against them. The tracker is alive. You are welcome.

which you will note came before FL posted:

why do you think that vollkan wasn't the kill choice for the scum?

I am honestly not sure why they chose seraphim considering he is the weakest link (in my opinion) from that list.

(Also, still V/LA. Have unexpected internet access for the next few hours)

which is a wold apart from

A player who had not yet linked the two together upon seeing the kill.

.. I'd already connected the majority of the dots for FL, and yet he still posted

I am honestly not sure why they chose seraphim considering he is the weakest link (in my opinion) from that list.

I don't buy it.

[vollkan]

why do you think that vollkan wasn't the kill choice for the scum?

I am honestly not sure why they chose seraphim considering he is the weakest link (in my opinion) from that list.

(Also, still V/LA. Have unexpected internet access for the next few hours)

he refers to "that list" which I assume references

I think the optimal scum kill choice was a member of the accounts team

• vollkan - Head of Account Services
  crywolf20084 - Account Executive
  Ren Hoek - Account Executive
  Nuwen - Account Executive
  curiouskarmadog - Account Executive
  Seraphim - Account Executive

I think that they tried to pick who the most likely target for the bussdriver switch would be. Thankfully, the odds were against them. The tracker is alive. You are welcome.

which you will note came before FL posted:

why do you think that vollkan wasn't the kill choice for the scum?

I am honestly not sure why they chose seraphim considering he is the weakest link (in my opinion) from that list.

(Also, still V/LA. Have unexpected internet access for the next few hours)

which is a wold apart from

A player who had not yet linked the two together upon seeing the kill.

.. I'd already connected the majority of the dots for FL, and yet he still posted

I am honestly not sure why they chose seraphim considering he is the weakest link (in my opinion) from that list.

I don't buy it.

Better point.

[Goatrevolt]

I'm going to be V/LA for Friday, Saturday, and possibly Sunday. I should be back by Sunday, but it's no guarantee.

I have a strong reason to believe Ren Hoek is town. Everyone voting for him needs to explain what they think about the self-vote.

Also, Adel is right about FL. That reaction really doesn't make sense from a town mindset.

Vote FL

[FaerieLord]

why do you think he is weaker than Ren Hoek?

Because from what I've seen Ren is capable of doing some scum hunting. Sera was pretty passive throughout.

The most valuable role would probably end up getting switched with one of the weakest players... and I think you understood that.

It took me three times to get what you're saying and now I realize what you're getting it. You're saying it was either driven from a good player to a worse player or scum targetted a worse player as to avoid being driven but retain choice.

A player who had not yet linked the two together upon seeing the kill. It took me a little while to join the dots and I did understand your plan so I'm seeing this as null.

This. I understood how it worked but didn't get it until you pointed it out just now

(Ok, I'm really V/LA now. Should be leaving in thirty minutes)

[scotmany12]

I have a strong reason to believe Ren Hoek is town. Everyone voting for him needs to explain what they think about the self-vote.

There is no reason why anyone voting for Ren should change their mind because of the self vote. It is a null tell; it does not prove he is town, nore does it prove that he is scum.

I'm not really buying the whole thing against fl right now.

[Budja]

I have a strong reason to believe Ren Hoek is town. Everyone voting for him needs to explain what they think about the self-vote.

There is no reason why anyone voting for Ren should change their mind because of the self vote. It is a null tell; it does not prove he is town, nore does it prove that he is scum.

I'm not really buying the whole thing against fl right now.

QFT