Newbie game 806: Game over (the scums win)

[d3x]

Well, Zach has a standing question open to the others Re: their voting/nonvoting choices. Aside from that, I'm ok with you hammering.

[iPeanut]

Well, Zach has a standing question open to the others Re: their voting/nonvoting choices. Aside from that, I'm ok with you hammering.

I was sort of assuming that everything would be resolved in that amount of time.

I won't be hammering if there's still open discussion going on, in case I didn't get that across in the last post.

[JamesBond]

I dont wanna self hammer, since I kill any discussion you might want now. Im 100% sure getting hanged now, and gonna be V/LA also. Ive said what I had to say. GL all.

[Dizzle]

I'd like to hear from the remaining HR voters (sigma, facebook) about exactly why they find HR scummier than JamesBond. facebook is on a much different schedule than us, but maybe sigma can quickly explain his reasoning. I'd also like to hear HR's thoughts on the majority of suspicion switching from him to JamesBond and whether he still has iP as his top suspect.

[HowardRoark]

My peanut vote is mostly based off his lack of action in this game. He has been active in the discussions, but not actively scum hunting.

I hadn't realized that he's gone this entire Day with no real votes.

That's my point. He's been active in the discussions, but IMHO not scum hunting.

I don't want to unnecessarily rack that up in the event that our scumteam would be able to push through a hammer.

If it is a quick lynch that you are worried about, I wouldn't. Quick lynches lead to finding scum. Hammers without explanation lead to finding scum. Vote analysis is a great tool; your lack of voting is a tell in my book.

I'm convinced that we get the most information from a Bond lynch right now

This sounds as if you have some inkling of an idea concerning the wagon on him. Care to share now?

I'd also like to hear HR's thoughts on the majority of suspicion switching from him to JamesBond

I'm not sure what to make of it ATM. It should make for good clues for tomorrow's discussion.

"6 hours, 34 minutes" until deadline.

[iPeanut]

If it is a quick lynch that you are worried about, I wouldn't. Quick lynches lead to finding scum. Hammers without explanation lead to finding scum. Vote analysis is a great tool; your lack of voting is a tell in my book.

No, not quicklynching, but I do worry about scum being able to ride on a misguided townie vote. Over time is the dangerous one, and it makes me very nervous about voting before I'm absolutely sure, which takes a good amount of time anyways.

This sounds as if you have some inkling of an idea concerning the wagon on him. Care to share now?

Not sure if I quite catch your drift here, but let's see if this works.
1. I find JamesBond to be the scummiest player at the moment; most of his recent points get to me emotionally, but not logically. I've gone over the case before, but if it's not good enough, I can go over it again.
2. JamesBond, upon anticipation of a lynch, has given his last bits of information. This is rather useless without knowing 100% what his alignment is.
3. Depending on that flip, we see who's voted for who, and since there were a couple of wagons going for a while, we get good information from that, as well.

Is that what you were looking for?

I find it curious that you didn't respond to the top of 239.

We're still getting meaningful discussion here, so I'm going to continue holding back on my vote.

[HowardRoark]

I find it curious that you didn't respond to the top of 239.

Yes, you stated that the question of the list was not directed to you. You also discussed it. The list is meant to reveal information. Information = good for town. It was a piece of the "not really participating" point of mine. Alone, a good piece to pick out to defend. However, that is missing the brunt of the case.

[iPeanut]

Yes, you stated that the question of the list was not directed to you. You also discussed it. The list is meant to reveal information. Information = good for town. It was a piece of the "not really participating" point of mine.

That doesn't quite answer my question, though. I know that I discussed it, but it was never redirected towards me or anyone else. Why'd you pick out my lack of response to it, since it wasn't directed to me? That's the part that keeps going over my head. I get the rest of it. The rest of it's based on sound logic, but that one hole is the entire point of bringing it up with that context.

Alone, a good piece to pick out to defend. However, that is missing the brunt of the case.

I've covered the rest as best I can. If there's something you feel I've left out, please let me know before the day's over.

[iPeanut]

That deadline's awful close, here. Anything else that absolutely needs to be covered before we hit night one?

[iPeanut]

Aaargh triplepost. DX

Okay, we're thirty minutes from the deadline and there's been no response, so I guess I might as well go ahead. Really would've liked to see some input from the rest of you guys, but my hopes wane with each passing minute. Don't think anything meaningful will come up in the time before the deadline anymore, so...

Vote: JamesBond

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

Hey guys,

Sorry about the wait. I've got to administer a test tomorrow, so I haven't done any modding for the last 2 days. I'll have time to get to everything tomorrow morning while my students are wracking their brains.


Vel

Final Day 1 Vote count

(9 players alive = 5 to lynch before deadline)

(2) HowardRoark - facebook, sigma
(5) JamesBond – Zachrulez, Toledo88, Dizzle, d3x, iPeanut
(1) iPeanut – HowardRoark

Not voting:

JamesBond

Deadline

: 16 July

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

Night 1

Finally the group of friends decides to send out JamesBond in the hallway. The chosen one shrugs the shoulders and says something to the effect of “no biggie, it’s not like we’re lynched or something, I’ll just leave these tight quarters. Could this even be considered punishm …”and here somewhere the door slams shut behind the chosen and everything is dead silent for a few seconds. And to spare your precious and somewhat innocent souls I won’t retell exactly what happens in the hallway. Perhaps a few well chosen words howled by the chosen states it best: “Nooooo, not the eye lash curler, arrrgh.” And beneath the door a pool of blood is suddenly and quickly forming. The cold-blooded torture of an expert is shattering the consciousness of all of you, praying for it to end as soon as possible. And in about half an hour it does with the confession:

”I am innocent, I didn’t kill John”

JamesBond,

Townie

, tormented to death Day 1

It is now night and those with night choices has to send them in via PM within three days from this post’s time stamp.

Please observe that Vel-Rahn Koon is in control of this game and the one to send night choices to. I’ll be away for a week.

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

Day 2

You wake up after a night full of nightmares about John Doe's mom. Nobody has slept that well on the floor (since the bed has been kind of off limit due to the corpse lying there stinking up the room). To add insult to injury, one of you doesn’t wake up. Upon closer scrutiny it is obvious that the mafia has struck again.

iPeanut,

Townie

, killed N1

Let the discussion and voting continue.

To all who have died: Thank you for playing, you’re welcome to post again AFTER the game is over.

[HowardRoark]

I was asked about the shift in wagons from me to JamesBond . . . here's what the vote record shows . . .
[mrow]Post[col]Voter[col]To[col]From 99[col]d3x[col]HowardRoark (1)[col]Toledo88 (0) 123[col]Zachrulez[col]HowardRoark (2)[col]d3x (1) 127[col]facebook[col]

JamesBond

(1)[col] - 175[col]Zachrulez[col]

JamesBond

(2)[col]HR (1) 202[col]facebook[col]HowardRoark (2)[col]

JamesBond

(1) 204[col]Toledo88[col]

JamesBond

(2)[col] - 208[col]

JamesBond

[col]HowardRoark (3)[col] - 224[col]sigma[col]HowardRoark (4)[col]facebook (0) 233[col]Dizzle[col]

JamesBond

(3)[col] - 240[col]

JamesBond

[col] - [col]HowardRoark (3) 243[col]d3x[col]

JamesBond

(4)[col]HowardRoark (2) 259[col]

iPeanut

[col]

JamesBond

(5)[col] -
Notables:

• d3x didn't change until after JamesBond unvoted me (I had become a less viable option)
• d3x's post 243 where he switched needs review
• sigma put me at L-1 and let it ride
• sigma's only post after the turn was 247 and needs review
• Zachrulez rode his JamesBond vote and his last post before day's end was 245 and needs review
• facebook's last post prior to lynch was back at 222 . . . she needs a good looking at

I will provide reviews of these posts in a bit.

On another note . . . my full-time office mate will be back on Wednesday, so my schedule will be less hectic. YAY!

[d3x]

Good tp have the game back open and good to hear that your schedule's about to clear up a bit, HR. How do you feel about your readon iP now that we know he's innocent?

[HowardRoark]

d3x's 243 . . . I misread his point there. Nothing to glean from it.


@sigma: You changed from facebook to me as I was your #2 and deadline was approaching. I'm interested to see who you pursue first today.

I think voting pattern/timing are some more accurate ways for scumhunting.

I'd like to see what you have to offer for vote analysis for yesterday.

Also, you mention that you are town (or some variation of that word) over a dozen times in you 2 content posts. Many on this site believe that overstating your town alignment is a sum tell. What do you think of that in regards to your actions?


@d3x: The read was wrong, but I still dislike what I was seeing from iPeanut.

[Johoohno]

Important mod note

I'm back from vacation, and once again in charge of the game. Thanks Vel-Rahn Koon for back up-modding!

Vote count

(7 players alive = 4 to lynch before deadline)

Not voting:

d3x, Dizzle, facebook, HowardRoark, sigma, Toledo88, Zachrulez

:arrow:

Deadline

16 July

[sigma]

Good morning (in both senses of the word).

@sigma: You changed from facebook to me as I was your #2 and deadline was approaching. I'm interested to see who you pursue first today.

I'm planning on reviewing facebook and toledo in detail to start with. It'd probably be good to take a look at iP's posts and see if we can glean anything from those as well.

Looking forward to your post review.

@Dizzle -- sorry I didn't get a chance to respond to #253. I think my last post (#247) summarizes my reasons for voting HR instead of JB.

They've both done scummy things. My gut feeling is that JB is more likely to be town. Another point in his favor is that he hasn't self-hammered in a situation where his lynch is pretty much inevitable (iP has already said that JB is his top suspect). That's a town-tell.

I'd like to request that no one hammer until iP weighs in. I'd like to get iP's first serious vote on record before JB goes down

If there's anything in particular you have questions about after reading that, let me know.

Not much else at the moment -- I need to review the thread. Morning of day 2 is probably a good time for a fresh look.

[d3x]

@sigma: You changed from facebook to me as I was your #2 and deadline was approaching. I'm interested to see who you pursue first today.

I'm planning on reviewing facebook and toledo in detail to start with. It'd probably be good to take a look at iP's posts and see if we can glean anything from those as well.

I find this interesting. HR is who sigma ended up with yesterday. HR was going after iP {since, a known Townie}. HR starts the day with a vote recap and asks sigma who he's looking at, and sigma's reply isn't HR? Why?

@sigma- What has made you sway away from HR? There's officially only been one post between you're voting HR and your claim that you're looking at facebook and Toledo. Where the hell did that come from?

[sigma]

Facebook, post by post, very briefly.

p0 - Hi guys
p1 - Still reading
p2 - Bad logic is not a scum tell. SRG is confused townie. d3x is cool. I'm going to sheep him. Vote HR.
p3 - HR: Why vote for iP? JB is probably town. still following d3x. waiting for a lynch for more clues.

That's all of her posts. Now, a little more detail. Pretty colors are added by me.

p3:

I am sorry for not saying why i voted HR but not bond (i said i sheeped but d3x said he could vote HR/jamesbond)

there were 2 weak reasons for it but enough to put him in a less scummy position:
he said

somerand0mguy wrote:
I'm sorry Rashilul that is not a very good vote,and I was already suspicious of the person you replaced so....

Vote:Rashilul


The Rashilul vote could be fair, he WAS playing like an idiot.

But the question i am asking is: Why the fuck were you suspicious about the guy who he replaced? He posted ONCE.

Explain yourself.

the first thing when i saw it, i felt like it was exactly what "somerandomguy" did to me. I'm town, and 1 or 2 persons still have their votes on me. Of course, if somerandomguy was mafia, then i would be. But some random plays by a previous player made the current player looks scummy really sucks. I am town and I have the same feeling, so he might as well be maf. Not the best logic, but it does give me a lil bit of town feeling.

2. He was replaced twice, and

I have to say a lot of replacements were done because of people not wanting to play as townie in newbie games.

The role was replaced twice, and that could have some meanings/implications.

other than that, it looks like HR is not as involved in the game as jamesbond, if i am not sure which one is scummier, then i would vote a less-involved guy just 'cause "he will not help town much if he is town anyway"

@facebook:

After looking at this post carefully, I think what you're saying here is that you and Bond had similar situations -- replaced for scummy looking players. From your perspective, you're saying that because you are a town role, and JB has a similar situation to yours, you thought he was more likely to be town. Is that right?

You then go on to say that people who get replaced are more likely to be townie. Does anyone else agree with this? Unless someone's actually cracked down and run the numbers, throwing out statements like "I have to say a lot of replacements were done because of people not wanting to play as townie in newbie games" looks dodgy to me.

Also in day 1, you didn't do any scumhunting. The mitigating factor is that you didn't have much time to build a case. That said, you've said that you like looking at voting records, so I expect to see you building a case on someone in day 2. Let's see you get some discussion started.

Until I see more pro-town behavior from her,

FOS:facebook

[Zachrulez]

@sigma: You changed from facebook to me as I was your #2 and deadline was approaching. I'm interested to see who you pursue first today.

I'm planning on reviewing facebook and toledo in detail to start with. It'd probably be good to take a look at iP's posts and see if we can glean anything from those as well.

I find this interesting. HR is who sigma ended up with yesterday. HR was going after iP {since, a known Townie}. HR starts the day with a vote recap and asks sigma who he's looking at, and sigma's reply isn't HR? Why?

@sigma- What has made you sway away from HR? There's officially only been one post between you're voting HR and your claim that you're looking at facebook and Toledo. Where the hell did that come from?

Facebook was Sigma's top suspect on day 1 right? (Somerandomguy's replacement if I'm following)

It's logical that Sigma would go back to Facebook since he clearly stated HR as his 2nd suspect and changed his vote in the face of the deadline.

It is strange though that he hasn't stated an intention to look at HR at all, and is looking in Toledo's direction, so I am interested in the answer to your question d3x.

What's changed Sigma?

[sigma]

@sigma: You changed from facebook to me as I was your #2 and deadline was approaching. I'm interested to see who you pursue first today.

I'm planning on reviewing facebook and toledo in detail to start with. It'd probably be good to take a look at iP's posts and see if we can glean anything from those as well.

I find this interesting. HR is who sigma ended up with yesterday. HR was going after iP {since, a known Townie}. HR starts the day with a vote recap and asks sigma who he's looking at, and sigma's reply isn't HR? Why?

@sigma- What has made you sway away from HR? There's officially only been one post between you're voting HR and your claim that you're looking at facebook and Toledo. Where the hell did that come from?

facebook's predecessor was my #1 suspect. facebook hasn't done any scumhunting. Asking me where the hell facebook came from as a suspect is a bit disingenuous.

In addition, HR didn't ask me who my top suspects were, he asked me who I was going to pursue first today, which I took to mean as "who are you going to investigate first today?" As I said before, morning on day 2 is a good time to take a fresh look at things. I've been going over HR's posts a lot more than the average player in this game, so it would be a good idea to look at the other players and re-evaluate in light of new information. In addition to that, his two posts today were good, pro-town posts in my opinion. I've still got my eye on HR, but there are others I want to look at right now.

facebook and toledo were two players who came to mind when I decided who to look at. My impression was that neither of them have done much scumhunting. I need to look at Toledo in detail to see if that impression's correct.

I find this interesting. HR is who sigma ended up with yesterday.

HR was going after iP {since, a known Townie}.

HR starts the day with a vote recap and asks sigma who he's looking at, and sigma's reply isn't HR? Why?

What in the world does HR going after iP have to do with anything? If iP had been putting heat on HR, that would be relevant, but that's not the case.

[sigma]

Oy, I need to preview my posts to see if there are new posts -- you guys are going too fast.

@Zach:

It is strange though that he hasn't stated an intention to look at HR at all, and is looking in Toledo's direction, so I am interested in the answer to your question d3x.

What's changed Sigma?

Why is it strange for me not to state an intention to look at HR? Should I have posted something like:

"I intend to look at:

d3x
Dizzle
facebook
HR
Toledo
Zachrulez

not necessarily in that order!"

I think that goes without saying. I'm going to look at everybody. I have a list of suspects. Those two things aren't the same -- I wasn't saying that facebook and toledo are my top two suspects. HR asked me who I was going to look at first. I answered him. That doesn't mean that I won't look at HR further as well.

[Zachrulez]

Yeah, but why do you want to look at Toledo before HR?

[sigma]

Please read or re-read post #271.