Newbie game 806: Game over (the scums win)

[HowardRoark]

I have been extremely busy; things should slow down for me early next week.

The comment concerning revealing my strategies was made while reading one of the posts. IIRC it mostly had to do with the statements I made about somerand0mguy and then the vote.

Until facebook provides some insight, my vote will remain.

Vote count

(9 players alive = 5 to lynch before deadline)

(2) somerand0mguy – sigma, HowardRoark
(2) JamesBond - somerand0mguy, Zachrulez
(1) HowardRoark - d3x

Not voting:

Dizzle, iPeanut, JamesBond, Toledo88

Deadline

: 16 July

[Zachrulez]

Not expecting to be too terribly active over the weekend.

If you guys have any specific questions or anything you want me to comment on let me know.

Otherwise I don't think I have much to add at this point.

[facebook]

Hey guys, I'm done reading all the posts.
took me long enough

Overall, I notice 2 problems in the game (and for myself)

1. Treating bad logic as scummy. We all don't like bad logic. However, if a player is bad at logic, then no matter he is a mafia or a townie, he is bad at logic. I saw in some posts where people were voted because of others thought they missed/screwed up some logic. I think voting pattern/timing are some more accurate ways for scumhunting.

Putting a vote on a player who screwed up logic might not be bad consider you can't find anyone really scummy and you put a vote on a player who, even turns out to be town, would not be able to help town anyway.

2. somerand0mguy has left some really not constructive words and I hope you guys know, we have the same role but I'm ANOTHER player, just with the same role I would have read somerand0mguy as a confused townie trying to add to the game but too bad it didn't work out but of course I know truly that I'm townish

I know it's kinda weird and difficult for me to clear those mess for him but this is what I will do first.

*****************************

Well, looks like the RVS discussion is gone for now but I just want to tell you guys about my view on it.

I love, and honestly love all this game got started with this "RVS" discussion and thus resulting some further arguments related/raised from that. I like RVS, I think it is just a way to get discussions going. With my not-so-rich experience in forum mafia, RVS seems like the only way to kick start things effectively. Not like you cannot start the discussion immediately, but what can you discuss at all?


*****************************

About somerandomguy:

somer was definitely not playing the newbie card (players who play that wudn't quit) and was genuinely doing those moves as a confused/frustrated townie trying to add things (and possible but failed humours) to the game. You guys voted him and he was like I got votes and I don't like it. so i quit. that's pretty horrible of course but it was a town move. Even he wudn't help much, you never lynch a person so townish.

I honestly hope one of you guys could just unvote me first if you think that I could change things. I am not asking for sympathy just because I just joined this game and not wanting to be lynched immediately. I am asking you guys just to look into this game further without lynching a townish player.

*****************************


I actually like d3x's arguments in the game. He was attacked early about the random voting thingy but he did make some really good counter-arguments. And I like this post very much

I would be ok with a Bond lynch. He's been more active than his replacees, but has been acting a bit weird over this rand0m thing. Multiple times he's made statements about being ok with an almost assuredly mislynch of rand0m. His comments on a replacement seem like an afterthought, but he should know more than anyone {as he is a replacement} the availability of replacing out/in.

Also, Rash's exit seemed more Scum laden than rand0m's. It was more like we caught his hand in the cookie jar than frustrated Newb-Town.

My p129 sums up another pressure point that I felt was left untouched by him bailing. I find that move very scummy, indeed.

For what it's worth, I just noticed that in his p171 where he was detailing our chances of nailing Scum, Bond left himself into the equation. I don't like that. He says...

If we accept Somerandomguy as town, and we go for someone else, we have 2/8 shot of getting scum

...but with rand0m being Town and him knowing his own alignment as "Town", it'd be 2/7. Hmm...

It is not bad to sheep for a bit and follow d3x. When a guy has made valid points, it isn't bad to sheep a bit.

Unvote, Vote HR

*****************************

About me:

This is my 3rd participated (1 finished, another in progress, and this one) game on the site and I have only played forum mafia on one other site before.

Prolly living quite far away from most of you guys so don't expect me to catch up with your timezones. English is my third language (Cantonese and Japanese are my native languages and mandarin is my forth if you wanna know ) so if i made some grammatical/spelling errors or not catching your slangs and stuff please correct/spare me !

btw i'm not a guy

[iPeanut]

1. Treating bad logic as scummy. We all don't like bad logic. However, if a player is bad at logic, then no matter he is a mafia or a townie, he is bad at logic. I saw in some posts where people were voted because of others thought they missed/screwed up some logic. I think voting pattern/timing are some more accurate ways for scumhunting.

First, welcome to the game.

But, I don't agree with this one. While it's not necessarily scummy, bad logic could also be a way that scum leak in an argument against someone and hope that others hop onto. If it's done well, the town might not catch the bad logic. It's WIFOM to guess, but I'd hate to simply give someone the benefit of the doubt in this game.

Although there is a point in saying that's it's not necessarily the best argument out there.

It is not bad to sheep for a bit and follow d3x. When a guy has made valid points, it isn't bad to sheep a bit.

Good point, but:
1. Why do you agree with d3x's points, other than that they are good?
2. There's currently a discussion on the validity of his points and points made against him, so it's not a stable sheepin', either.

Prolly living quite far away from most of you guys so don't expect me to catch up with your timezones. English is my third language (Cantonese and Japanese are my native languages and mandarin is my forth if you wanna know ) so if i made some grammatical/spelling errors or not catching your slangs and stuff please correct/spare me !

d3x: I believe this is what we call irony. (referring to rand0m)

facebook: I can't speak for anyone else, but I specifically refrain from going grammar nazi on anyone in this forum. XD This game seems like it's filled with a good crowd. No worries. :3
And, daaaamn. Four languages. o_o

[Toledo25]

Ok, I'm going to go ahead and place my vote.

Vote: Bond

My reasons:
1. p. 194 by Dizzle. Seems like a pretty big contradiction. Also:

Right now you are my favourite lynch.

That was directed at rand0m, btw.

@Dx3. Didnt even think about that he could be replaced. How silly of me.

A bit too convenient to forget. You replaced in yourself.

2. p. 171 by Bond. As Zach said, it implies that Bond thinks rand0m is pro-town but thinks lynching him is peachy.

3. Your predecessors weren't too good. Rash's opening was vague and scummy, his vote didn't make much sense. Spirit also didn't give much input.

Bond, question: Who do you want to get lynched so far?

[d3x]

Alright. We have about 4 days left and I think leaving this to the last minute would be a severe mistake. We need to decide where our lynch is best served. The more pressure we apply the sooner, the better off the Town is. As I said in p177, I am ok with either a Bond lynch or an HR lynch at this point, but we need to apply the pressure and get the discussion going. The longer we wait, the less pressured discussion takes place, the more it'll hurt us in the long run.

We currently have a 3 way tie with 2 votes each.

[iPeanut]

Alright. We have about 4 days left and I think leaving this to the last minute would be a severe mistake. We need to decide where our lynch is best served.

Agreed. Although, we also need to be especially careful not to jump the gun, either. (That's in general, not just d3x.) It'd suck to cut conversation shorter than needs be.

There hasn't been any particular surge of information here, so I'm not entirely confident in anyone for now; however, I'm okay with a Bond lynch at this point. I don't want to see HR go down just yet, since he's not really raising any alarms for me. As I've stated before, the only other one that raised any flags was rand0m, but as of right now I don't believe it merits a lynch. We'll see where the rest of our time goes, of course.

If a tiebreaker were needed, I'd drop my vote on the Bond side. I'm curious to see where the other non-voters would fall in.

[Zachrulez]

Alright. We have about 4 days left and I think leaving this to the last minute would be a severe mistake. We need to decide where our lynch is best served. The more pressure we apply the sooner, the better off the Town is. As I said in p177, I am ok with either a Bond lynch or an HR lynch at this point, but we need to apply the pressure and get the discussion going. The longer we wait, the less pressured discussion takes place, the more it'll hurt us in the long run.

We currently have a 3 way tie with 2 votes each.

I think you missed Toledo's vote for Bond. Bond currently has 3 votes.

[JamesBond]

Ok, I'm going to go ahead and place my vote.

Vote: Bond

My reasons:
1. p. 194 by Dizzle. Seems like a pretty big contradiction. Also:

Right now you are my favourite lynch.

That was directed at rand0m, btw.

@Dx3. Didnt even think about that he could be replaced. How silly of me.

A bit too convenient to forget. You replaced in yourself.

2. p. 171 by Bond. As Zach said, it implies that Bond thinks rand0m is pro-town but thinks lynching him is peachy.

3. Your predecessors weren't too good. Rash's opening was vague and scummy, his vote didn't make much sense. Spirit also didn't give much input.

Bond, question: Who do you want to get lynched so far?

First, yes, I have made quite a lot of stupid mistakes this game. My logic against rand0m was a bit weak, I know that, but I played with my cards open and explained my thoughts. Forgetting that he could be replaced was just plain stupid, especially since I was replacing in myself.

For myself, I feel like i would want HR lynched at this point. The case against him is ok I guess, but I said earlier that I didnt think the case super solid, and I stand by that still. The thing is that it looks like its gonna be me against him right now, and then of course I want him hanged.

Vote: HowardRoark

[d3x]

I think you missed Toledo's vote for Bond. Bond currently has 3 votes.

I didn't miss it and I almost thought the same as you. The only problem is that HR had 2 votes - you and rand0m. facebook came in and changed radn0m's to HR in her p202. That put 2 on HR and only 1 on Bond. That was when Toledo came in and voted Bond. It put 2 on Bond, HR, and 2 remaining on rand0m/facebook. Now with Bond's vote on HR, it's...

Unofficial Vote Count
{3} HowardRoark- d3x, facebook, JamesBond
{2} facebook- sigma, HowardRoark
{2} JamesBond- Zachrulez, Toledo88

Sorry to Johoohno, I don't mean to step on your toes

[Zachrulez]

I think you missed Toledo's vote for Bond. Bond currently has 3 votes.

I didn't miss it and I almost thought the same as you. The only problem is that HR had 2 votes - you and rand0m. facebook came in and changed radn0m's to HR in her p202. That put 2 on HR and only 1 on Bond. That was when Toledo came in and voted Bond. It put 2 on Bond, HR, and 2 remaining on rand0m/facebook. Now with Bond's vote on HR, it's...

Unofficial Vote Count
{3} HowardRoark- d3x, facebook, JamesBond
{2} facebook- sigma, HowardRoark
{2} JamesBond- Zachrulez, Toledo88

Sorry to Johoohno, I don't mean to step on your toes

Ah, never mind then. Confusing.

[Dizzle]

@facebook
Welcome! I know you liked that d3x quote because it was a slight defense of SRG/you, but it was also an indictment of JamesBond...but you voted for HR. Why HR and not Bond?

@Toledo
Good catch about Bond, the replacer, supposedly not even considering that SRG could be replaced. Could be an honest mistake, but it just seems scummy especially considering his approval of a townie lynching and later denial. If I was forced to vote right now, it would be for Bond.

@JamesBond
You're voting for someone when you've already admitted that the case against him isn't strong? I understand the desire to survive, but if you actually are pro-town wouldn't it be a better idea to actually find someone scummy to vote for instead of voting HR solely to save your own ass?

[d3x]

@Dizzle- Not to steal Toledo's thunder, but that was my catch. Please note my p177. Also, in regards to your point on Bond, I'm thinking it's a play to distance and buss.

If

there is merit to the HR/Bond Scum Team, then him being on the wagon will help us to think he's Town.

[Dizzle]

Hmm, so you like to hear/see yourself talk AND you like to steal people's thunder? How much more scummy could you get?

[sigma]

1. Treating bad logic as scummy. We all don't like bad logic. However, if a player is bad at logic, then no matter he is a mafia or a townie, he is bad at logic. I saw in some posts where people were voted because of others thought they missed/screwed up some logic. I think voting pattern/timing are some more accurate ways for scumhunting.

Putting a vote on a player who screwed up logic might not be bad consider you can't find anyone really scummy and you put a vote on a player who, even turns out to be town, would not be able to help town anyway.

Bad logic isn't the best scum tell, true. That said, I don't think this applies much on day 1. We don't have much in the way of voting patterns/timing to go on.

Also, using bad logic subtly to go after a townie is definitely characteristic scum behavior, so I think this is something to look out for later on.

It is not bad to sheep for a bit and follow d3x. When a guy has made valid points, it isn't bad to sheep a bit.

Unvote, Vote HR

Dizzle's mentioned this, but it merits repeating. Is this meant to be a James Bond vote? The prelude to this vote sounds like it's preceding a JB vote, but then you go and vote HR without having mentioned him before. Please explain yourself.

[JamesBond]

@JamesBond
You're voting for someone when you've already admitted that the case against him isn't strong? I understand the desire to survive, but if you actually are pro-town wouldn't it be a better idea to actually find someone scummy to vote for instead of voting HR solely to save your own ass?

No, actually, it isnt. I of course want to save myself, and I know that I am town, I dont know that about HR, he could be anything. That means that it is both better for me and for town to hang HR.

And supplying a new case right now isnt good because:
1) I dont have any good ones at the moment. I have suspicions, but none that are good enough to get a lynch on.
2) Splitting up into three cases just before deadline isnt good in any way in my opinion. Just gives the scum more power in the voting if were getting a deadline vote.

[Zachrulez]

@JamesBond
You're voting for someone when you've already admitted that the case against him isn't strong? I understand the desire to survive, but if you actually are pro-town wouldn't it be a better idea to actually find someone scummy to vote for instead of voting HR solely to save your own ass?

No, actually, it isnt. I of course want to save myself, and I know that I am town, I dont know that about HR, he could be anything. That means that it is both better for me and for town to hang HR.

And supplying a new case right now isnt good because:
1) I dont have any good ones at the moment. I have suspicions, but none that are good enough to get a lynch on.
2) Splitting up into three cases just before deadline isnt good in any way in my opinion. Just gives the scum more power in the voting if were getting a deadline vote.

You're basically admitting here that the only reason you're voting HR is because he's the only other viable lynch in your eyes. This is unacceptable, and certainly not good scum hunting.

It doesn't give us a good idea of who you really suspect.

[HowardRoark]

Still busy, but wanted to let you know that I am still here. With things clearing up at work tomorrow, I should be able to have a good re-read tomorrow evening. Right now, I'm going to . . .

unvote
vote iPeanut

He's been participating in the discussion; however, neither a whole lot of naming suspects nor building cases. In fact iso 8 & 9 he talks about naming the top 2/3 suspects, but never does. The best we get is

Does anyone else see a somerand0mguy + spiritMSTR/Rashilul/JamesBond scumteam?
{snip}
HoS: JamesBond due to aforementioned points against Rashilul. Refraining from voting due to faraway deadline, suspicions of somerand0mguy and not being very sure of the scumteam idea.

HR's definitely getting an IGMEOY from me, but I'm still holding my suspicions against JamesBond.

I'm okay with a Bond lynch at this point.

[JamesBond]

@JamesBond
You're voting for someone when you've already admitted that the case against him isn't strong? I understand the desire to survive, but if you actually are pro-town wouldn't it be a better idea to actually find someone scummy to vote for instead of voting HR solely to save your own ass?

No, actually, it isnt. I of course want to save myself, and I know that I am town, I dont know that about HR, he could be anything. That means that it is both better for me and for town to hang HR.

And supplying a new case right now isnt good because:
1) I dont have any good ones at the moment. I have suspicions, but none that are good enough to get a lynch on.
2) Splitting up into three cases just before deadline isnt good in any way in my opinion. Just gives the scum more power in the voting if were getting a deadline vote.

You're basically admitting here that the only reason you're voting HR is because he's the only other viable lynch in your eyes. This is unacceptable, and certainly not good scum hunting.

It doesn't give us a good idea of who you really suspect.

What is unacceptable about it? Its just basic tactics. I have no really strong cases against anyone at the moment, if i had i would defenitvly have gone out with them. Right now, my thinking is that it probably would stand between me and HR, and for me and for town HR is a better lynch, since I am town.

Yes, I would probably vote for anyone else exept me right now that I feel have a shot at getting lynched, I do want to survive because it is good for the town since I know im not scum, and everyone else has a shot at being scum in my book right now, which means anyone else is better than me.
I do know that it is not good scum hunting, but we are about 2-3 days from a deadline, and at the moment I personally dont have any good leads on people that I think is worth bringing out another case from. And trying to hunt someone on bad evidence is very bad for the town at the moment, which I explained earlier properly.

[iPeanut]

1) I dont have any good ones at the moment. I have suspicions, but none that are good enough to get a lynch on.

So? Info's info; someone else might get something out of your case that you missed, or it could be helpful to the town later on (especially if you're actually a townie, get lynched, and can no longer give us these suspicions). Best to lay it out while the gettin's good. Just 'cause it won't lead to a lynch right now doesn't mean it can't be useful at all.

He's been participating in the discussion; however, neither a whole lot of naming suspects nor building cases. In fact iso 8 & 9 he talks about naming the top 2/3 suspects, but never does.

Unfortunately, this is because I don't have many cases to build. I'd like to see more from facebook, though, since I'm still not ready to let my suspicions of rand0m go. The further we go in, the less I'm seeing the aforementioned rand0m/rash scumteam. But, that was with different players. Replacements really do complicate the game quite a bit. Definitely interested in seeing how things develop.

Most of what I'm getting has already been made by the time I catch up in reading, so pretty much all I'm left with is "I agree!" :/ I'm hoping to catch something as the game goes along.

In fact iso 8 & 9 he talks about naming the top 2/3 suspects, but never does.

I specifically stated when addressing it that the question was not directed to me, since it wasn't. It was a questioning of why that number was chosen, and it really didn't go anywhere.

Why pick that out, given that it's blatantly stated in my post that there was no incentive for me to answer that question, nor did I have any intentions to do so?

Yes, I would probably vote for anyone else exept me right now that I feel have a shot at getting lynched, I do want to survive because it is good for the town since I know im not scum, and everyone else has a shot at being scum in my book right now, which means anyone else is better than me.

*John's mom joke goes here*

Well, much as it's nice to imagine you telling the truth here, it's mafia. Nobody else knows your alignment for sure. That same logic goes for the rest of the town, and to an extent it goes for scum, as well. You're not really building a good defense. If "I'm a townie, please don't lynch me; the other guy's more likely to be scum!" worked, then we'd be at a dead end at the beginning of every game.

Survival is not necessarily the top priority of the town; getting more information out is. However, for scum (who are at an incredible numerical disadvantage), survival is the top concern. Two shots and they're out. A lucky town, even, is a threat. They've got to last longer than we do, and have less chances at screwing up. Your last-ditch efforts to get someone else killed are not making a good impression on me, suffice it to say.

[Johoohno]

Vote count

(9 players alive = 5 to lynch before deadline)

(3) HowardRoark - d3x, facebook, JamesBond
(2) JamesBond – Zachrulez, Toledo88
(1) facebook – sigma
(1) iPeanut – HowardRoark

Not voting:

Dizzle, iPeanut

Deadline

: 16 July

[Johoohno]

Important mod note

I'll be on vacation for a week and Vel-Rahn Koon will take care of you guys while I'm away.

REMEMBER to send in your night choices to him when night comes

(if you have any). I've sent out PM's to everyone with this information too.

[facebook]

ah. the votes are so well spreaded!

@HR,
it's v close to the deadline. and you are on the verge (me isn't far away either) of being lynched.
why do you vote for iPeanut but not james or me just to save yourself? because imo, no matter you are mafia/town, in this setup you may wanna survive first and leave the arguments for later?

that's a bit similar to what bond said in post 218.

Yes, I would probably vote for anyone else exept me right now that I feel have a shot at getting lynched, I do want to survive because it is good for the town since I know im not scum, and everyone else has a shot at being scum in my book right now, which means anyone else is better than me.
I do know that it is not good scum hunting, but we are about 2-3 days from a deadline, and at the moment I personally dont have any good leads on people that I think is worth bringing out another case from. And trying to hunt someone on bad evidence is very bad for the town at the moment, which I explained earlier properly.

or do you simply agree with what iPeanut said in the last post?

Survival is not necessarily the top priority of the town; getting more information out is. However, for scum (who are at an incredible numerical disadvantage), survival is the top concern. Two shots and they're out. A lucky town, even, is a threat. They've got to last longer than we do, and have less chances at screwing up. Your last-ditch efforts to get someone else killed are not making a good impression on me, suffice it to say.

___________________________________________________________

@facebook
Welcome! I know you liked that d3x quote because it was a slight defense of SRG/you, but it was also an indictment of JamesBond...but you voted for HR. Why HR and not Bond?

I am sorry for not saying why i voted HR but not bond (i said i sheeped but d3x said he could vote HR/jamesbond)

there were 2 weak reasons for it but enough to put him in a less scummy position:
1. he said

I'm sorry Rashilul that is not a very good vote,and I was already suspicious of the person you replaced so....

Vote:Rashilul

The Rashilul vote could be fair, he WAS playing like an idiot.

But the question i am asking is: Why the fuck were you suspicious about the guy who he replaced? He posted ONCE.

Explain yourself.

the first thing when i saw it, i felt like it was exactly what "somerandomguy" did to me. I'm town, and 1 or 2 persons still have their votes on me. Of course, if somerandomguy was mafia, then i would be. But some random plays by a previous player made the current player looks scummy really sucks. I am town and I have the same feeling, so he might as well be maf. Not the best logic, but it does give me a lil bit of town feeling.


2. He was replaced twice, and I have to say a lot of replacements were done because of people not wanting to play as townie in newbie games. The role was replaced twice, and that could have some meanings/implications.

other than that, it looks like HR is not as involved in the game as jamesbond, if i am not sure which one is scummier, then i would vote a less-involved guy just 'cause "he will not help town much if he is town anyway"


and to other guys about my sheeping on d3x.
I honestly don't have quite a lot of ideas from today's voting until a lynch (and thus the identity of the body is known) is made. I really want to see the identity first then go back to check voting patterns.
Till now, D3x is a guy who gave good reasons of what he did and I might just follow him a bit until some more important and significant clues can be drawn (after a lynch). I think there isn't really a lot to hunt when we are just talking things like "oh this guy screws logic up" "oh this guy has been inconsistent in what he said" and blah, not for now at least imo. (but of course maybe i'm just weak @ forum mafia )

Mod: Would you please change somerandomguy to facebook in the votecount? he's gone

Thanks, done.

[JamesBond]

1) I dont have any good ones at the moment. I have suspicions, but none that are good enough to get a lynch on.

So? Info's info; someone else might get something out of your case that you missed, or it could be helpful to the town later on (especially if you're actually a townie, get lynched, and can no longer give us these suspicions). Best to lay it out while the gettin's good. Just 'cause it won't lead to a lynch right now doesn't mean it can't be useful at all.

Yes, I would probably vote for anyone else exept me right now that I feel have a shot at getting lynched, I do want to survive because it is good for the town since I know im not scum, and everyone else has a shot at being scum in my book right now, which means anyone else is better than me.

*John's mom joke goes here*

Well, much as it's nice to imagine you telling the truth here, it's mafia. Nobody else knows your alignment for sure. That same logic goes for the rest of the town, and to an extent it goes for scum, as well. You're not really building a good defense. If "I'm a townie, please don't lynch me; the other guy's more likely to be scum!" worked, then we'd be at a dead end at the beginning of every game.

Survival is not necessarily the top priority of the town; getting more information out is. However, for scum (who are at an incredible numerical disadvantage), survival is the top concern. Two shots and they're out. A lucky town, even, is a threat. They've got to last longer than we do, and have less chances at screwing up. Your last-ditch efforts to get someone else killed are not making a good impression on me, suffice it to say.

First quote: If I survive, I will contribute information later on when I belive there are merit to it, and if I feel like I am about to get lynched, I will write it anyway. You must also understand that I am not holding out on anything important here, I DONT have anything really good that im just holding out on.

Second quote: True. All of it. But the fact still stands, survival is key to me now, but you guys can of course not know if am town or scum, I would be just as keen to survive as scum as I am now when im town. My actions could be both town and scum from your point of view right now I guess.

[sigma]

facebook, thanks for the response.

As I've stated a couple of times, HR has been my #2 suspect for a while now. Here are my main posts on HR:

HowardRoark is suspicious. I don't have anything to add to d3x and Zachrulez' notes on him: suffice it to say I agree with their reasons for finding him scummy. I can provide more detail if someone wants, but I think that'll do for now.

I've already said that I find HR suspicious for his previous actions. Commenting on some recent ones:

I think that somerand0mguy deserves more pressure as we deserve some answers to questions.

p9 Mostly a pressure vote to hopefully move him to be more active. However, his probable (*crosses fingers*) replacement does leave me lacking.

This is a contradiction. Being 'active' and answering questions are different things.

d3x's post 177 needs some attention. It's begins by parrotting others (where have we seen that used as an accusation?). After calling somerand0mguy's "exit" a null tell and a case is brought against JamesBond, he now decides that Rashilul's exit was a scum tell.

I'm not convinced by this attack. There is no way you can reasonably say that d3x called rand0m's exit a null tell. d3x has always said that his gut feeling is that rand0m's rant indicated newb-town. He expressed some reservations in his first post about it, but further posts have made his attitude clear. This is misrepresentation on HR's part.

I think that HR has misrepresented d3x on more than one occasion. I don't believe HR has adequately defended himself from the accusations against him. Moreover, we're close to deadline, so L-1 is appropriate.

Unvote

Vote:HR