Newbie game 806: Game over (the scums win)

[Johoohno]

Vote count

(9 players alive = 5 to lynch before deadline)

(2) HowardRoark - d3x, Zachrulez
(2) d3x - HowardRoark, Rashilul
(1) somerand0mguy - sigma

Not voting:

Dizzle, iPeanut, somerand0mguy, Toledo88

Deadline

: 16 July

[d3x]

Vote:d3x

his bossiness makes him seem scummy. Either that or he's just a control-freak townie.

Wait... what?

First, let's suspend disbelief for a sec and say, "d3x is bossy and/or a control-freak." How is that a Scum tell? If it's not a Scum tell, then why are you voting for me?

Now let's look at the plays that have transpired between your last...

Like I said just a gut feeling...with my guessing skills your probably a townie. Also, I just got on today (yesterday?) so I don't want to vote yet.

...and your most recent vote {p124}.

My p120

- followup question to Toledo and Scumhunt on rand0m
...and...

My p121

- pursuing lurkers/active lurkers and polite request for avatars {I even said please and thank you!!!}

Give me some kind of idea where your contradictory play is coming from, Rash. That is not a request, it is a demand. Now you can say I'm being bossy.

[somerand0mguy]

And a happy 4th to you and others, too!

@rand0m-
I'm not saying you can't gain suspects, I'm

very

clearly asking why. If you don't share how you came to your conclusions, we have no way of proving you as a Townie {lurking doesn't provide us with information and that doesn't help the Town}. If you have no problems with me thinking your Scum, just let me know now.

You come off as bold,and you started to inspect everyone as soon as you got here,I was actually pretty surprised we got to page two when the RVS was over. You do seem a little bossy,but I can see thats just part of your personality no flames meant. You go after toledo for using the RVS.

Vote:d3x

his bossiness makes him seem scummy. Either that or he's just a control-freak townie.

Now this is where I vote,since I can see everyone is watching my back to become active. I'm sorry Rashilul that is not a very good vote,and I was already suspicious of the person you replaced so....

Vote:Rashilul

[Rashilul]

Vote:d3x

his bossiness makes him seem scummy. Either that or he's just a control-freak townie.

Wait... what?

First, let's suspend disbelief for a sec and say, "d3x is bossy and/or a control-freak." How is that a Scum tell? If it's not a Scum tell, then why are you voting for me?

Now let's look at the plays that have transpired between your last...

Like I said just a gut feeling...with my guessing skills your probably a townie. Also, I just got on today (yesterday?) so I don't want to vote yet.

...and your most recent vote {p124}.

My p120

- followup question to Toledo and Scumhunt on rand0m
...and...

My p121

- pursuing lurkers/active lurkers and polite request for avatars {I even said please and thank you!!!}

Give me some kind of idea where your contradictory play is coming from, Rash. That is not a request, it is a demand. Now you can say I'm being bossy.

The "contradictory play" comes from me not having thouroughly read the whole thing before posting. I have also been suspicious of you since reading some of your first posts. And not being aloud to write to posts with different content is "scummy"? Please explain this. That's

my

demand of you.

[d3x]

Gladly.

Writing 2 posts with different content virtually back to back with no real explanation for your inconsistancy

is

scummy. Especially when the "different content" is a contradiction of what

you just said

. You're flip-flopping. One second you say you don't want to vote, the very next you vote. You haven't given a good {let alone passable} reason to vote. You're not fully answering the questions that are put to you. You're not really adding actual content to the discussion. And you're not Scumhunting. Yes, all of these things are scummy.

Now that you've "thoroughly read" the whole game, why is it that the best attack you can make against me is that I'm "bossy"? That doesn't make sense.

So I've answered your question, maybe you can answer

all

of the questions in my post, not just one.

How is that a Scum tell?

When you add to this the timing? Immediately when heat starts to shift away from me, you knee-jerk by voting d3x? Major scummy.

FoS:Rash

[Rashilul]

Gladly.

Writing 2 posts with different content virtually back to back with no real explanation for your inconsistancy

is

scummy. Especially when the "different content" is a contradiction of what

you just said

. You're flip-flopping. One second you say you don't want to vote, the very next you vote. You haven't given a good {let alone passable} reason to vote. You're not fully answering the questions that are put to you. You're not really adding actual content to the discussion. And you're not Scumhunting. Yes, all of these things are scummy.

Now that you've "thoroughly read" the whole game, why is it that the best attack you can make against me is that I'm "bossy"? That doesn't make sense.

So I've answered your question, maybe you can answer

all

of the questions in my post, not just one.

How is that a Scum tell?

When you add to this the timing? Immediately when heat starts to shift away from me, you knee-jerk by voting d3x? Major scummy.

FoS:Rash

Excuse me for I was unaware of the fine ettiquite of mafiascum. On a more serious note, some relatives have invited me over and, since I find family relations to be important, I am going to go visit them for a while.
Johoohno will have to replace me with someone else.

[Johoohno]

Replacement

Rashilul is replaced by JamesBond (effective immediately). Thanks!

[JamesBond]

Hi guys, replacing in.

Anything worth reading so far, or are you just random voting?

[iPeanut]

Don't like that statement. It helps to make possible scum pairs before hand, to see who should be lynched, and who's lynching would reveal the most info.

Not sure if you caught it, but he responded to that same thing from me.

I hope that you realize getting a better read goes both way,townies try to figure out mafia and mafia try to find power roles,and dangerous townies. I already know i'm a townie so why can't I get a better read on everyone.Last time I checked an active mafia is more dangerous than a lurking mafia.

Thing is, the mafia needs less read than we do. They KNOW that they will be killing someone of the town every night; the town has no way of knowing for sure that the person they're lynching is scum. The town is the side that desperately needs information to survive the game. Scum can sit back, wait things out without looking suspicious, and wait until the town's lynched itself off.

tl;dr: Townies need a read while the scum don't.

Hi guys, replacing in.

Anything worth reading so far, or are you just random voting?

Welcome to the game. :3

And, yeah, this thread dropped RVS like a hot potato. Lots to read.

Does anyone else see a somerand0mguy + spiritMSTR/Rashilul/JamesBond scumteam?

somerand0mguy's been incredibly nervous about participation, and very dodgy when presented with direct confrontation. In 101, when he came back with an argument, we got redirection:

And how come I'm the one being suspicious of lack of content when he obviously is acting kind of scummy?

Then, Rashilul comes in to replace spiritMSTR, srg's second suspect. Hello, similarity!

From what I have read, d3x is acting pretty suspicious.
Somerand0mguy is also acting pretty suspicious.

Little actual content, and there's a sort of swap going on here. d3x is the primary target between them, with a little bit of distancing on the side (assuming, of course, that they are actually a team). Not to deny that there's a good amount of heat on d3x right now, but the exchanging suspicions on the side thing really strikes me as scummy.

Rashilul starts out with saying it's just a gut feeling, so there's no vote. Soon after, a vote comes from the weak argument of "bossiness." Rash also then neglected to completely respond to d3x in 128, giving no reason as to why being bossy would be a scumtell.

There's a bit of a distancing dynamic here that I'm not entirely fond of, but when not tunneling it like that (and, granted, it's a bit of a stretch), Rashilul seems incredibly suspicious without the idea of a team. More suspicious than srg, at least. somerand0mguy's now making conscious effort to add to the game. He just seems a little unsure and, as he stated, confused.

Hate to drop this on someone kind enough to replace the second he comes in ( D: ), but

HoS: JamesBond

due to aforementioned points against Rashilul. Refraining from voting due to faraway deadline, suspicions of somerand0mguy and not being very sure of the scumteam idea.

[d3x]

@Mod- Prods on Dizzle and Howard, plz?

Hi Bond! Welcome to the game.

@iP- The Scum will be able to

target

Town every night, but they don't know that they will kill a Townie every night. There could be a Doc in the game, don't forget.

Personally, I'm not seeing them both as Scum. I think one is trying to hide behind the other, but I'm definitely leaning towards one of them being Scum.

Regarding rand0m, p101 isn't the only redirection that's been in here. Don't forget his p93. I'm thinking MSTR/Rash/Bond over rand0m ATM, but I'm very curious how Bond's going to handle this.

Howard and Dizzle have been prodded

[JamesBond]

Ok, now ive read through. This is what happened with the guys ive replaced.

The first guy went in, posted once that he was a noob, then never to be heard from again.

The other guy replaced in, said he "had a hunch", then voted for dx3 because he was "bossy" without any more explanation. He also said out of the blue that somerandomguy was suspicious without explanation.

-------------------------------------------------

Anyways, i cant really figure out how these losers are thinking when they are playing. I do understand why you guys are suspicious of them, but i think you should give me the benefit of the doubt, i AM pro-town, and i WILL contribute to this game.

about Rashuls Dx3 vote. He DOES seem to boss around a little, but i think that is just his playstyle. This type of player is dangerous because as scum they can pretty much manipulate the way of thinking. But they are also very valuable when they are pro-town because they can find the scum in better ways than people that are not talking that much.

Anyways, i will always suspect strong players, like Dx3 seems to be, but its totally idiocy to vote out these guys early when they contribute more than the regular guy.

Cant remember if Rashul ever voted for him, but just in case:

Unvote

[JamesBond]

I'm sorry Rashilul that is not a very good vote,and I was already suspicious of the person you replaced so....

Vote:Rashilul

The Rashilul vote could be fair, he WAS playing like an idiot.

But the question i am asking is: Why the fuck were you suspicious about the guy who he replaced? He posted ONCE.

Explain yourself.

[sigma]

Hello folks, putting together a real post.

Excuse me for I was unaware of the fine ettiquite of mafiascum. On a more serious note, some relatives have invited me over and, since I find family relations to be important, I am going to go visit them for a while.
Johoohno will have to replace me with someone else.

This cracked me up. I was not expecting that at all.

[Zachrulez]

@JamesBond : Since replacing in I've seen you respond to the actions of your predecessors and comment on d3x and somerandomguy. What are your thoughts on the rest of the players in the game?

[sigma]

HowardRoark is suspicious. I don't have anything to add to d3x and Zachrulez' notes on him: suffice it to say I agree with their reasons for finding him scummy. I can provide more detail if someone wants, but I think that'll do for now.

srg has been my vote for a while now, and I still think he's the best place for my vote by a long shot, for two reasons. (Post numbers are for srg's posts only, you can get these numbers by selecting "all posts from some rand0m guy" at the bottom of the topic.)

1) Inconsistency:

p8:

Well honestly,I really dont have any suspects. Everyones just confused,and bewildered the first day. And everyone is voting on luck,untill someone slips up.
And I tend not to vote the first day for the simple fact that there is almost never a mafia lynched. I usually start getting suspects based on the lynching of a townie (which is near certain in all games) and start basing the the nightkill,and then see who would benefit the most from the nightkill and then compare it with the people who voted to lynch someone.

He says that he tends not to vote on the first day, and advocates a lurk-on-day-1 strategy.

Then, in p12:

Second suspect:SpiritMSTR
Reasons why?: He posts that im suspicious for not posting much,but then he doesnt come back even when blatantly asked a question. He has doesn't have enough content as me in this ONE post. And how come I'm the one being suspicious of lack of content when he obviously is acting kind of scummy?

He's suspicious of SpiritMSTR for: lurking on day 1. Hrm.

p15:

Now this is where I vote,since I can see everyone is watching my back to become active. I'm sorry Rashilul that is not a very good vote,and I was already suspicious of the person you replaced so....
Vote:Rashilul

Oy. So much for tending not to vote on the first day.

The initial reason I voted for srg was that he removed his random vote despite saying earlier that it would generate discussion. This is inconsistent. He has also been inconsistent about his voting strategy, and his attitude towards lurking seems to me markedly different between when he does it and when Spirit did it.

2) Trying to blend in with other players when he does post.

He even says that this is his strategy in p9:

I know as a townie myself,I'd much rather stay in the back and be cautious then be in the front yelling at everyone.

More alarming is p15, which I've already mentioned. He basically said that one of the primary reasons for his vote was that "everyone is watching my back to become active." I'd say that the equivalent meaning here is that he's voting to become less conspicuous to other posters. This is scummy.

@somerand0mguy:
Why vote for Rashilul when you've previously stated that you "tend not to vote on Day 1?" Your three primary reasons for the vote that you mentioned in your post were:

1: Everyone is watching your back to become active.
2: You were suspicious of SpiritMSTR.
3: Rashilul's vote for d3x was poor quality.

3 is a decent reason, but voting to appear more "active" is just not a good reason to vote. Do you have any explanation as to this being a good reason to vote somebody?

As for reason 2:
Why were you suspicious of Spirit for lurking? Or in different words, why were you suspicious of him for doing the exact same thing that you advocated as your day 1 strategy?

Your reasons, taken together, don't seem to be strong enough to outweigh your stated tendency to "not vote the first day."

[JamesBond]

@JamesBond : Since replacing in I've seen you respond to the actions of your predecessors and comment on d3x and somerandomguy. What are your thoughts on the rest of the players in the game?

Im trying to make an opinion about people, i focused of course on the "real action" for myself in my first read through, and there i got an opinion about Dx3, somerandomguy and of course the used to be myself players.
Its harder i think to get a good opinion about all the players this short into the game, escpecially when replacing in and not have been following in real time so to say.

Im at work right now, but will read through again as soon as i can and try to give a good answer to your question.

[JamesBond]

Oh, and Dx3, i saw your posts about avatars. I will fix one when i come home, i promise

[somerand0mguy]

I'm sorry Rashilul that is not a very good vote,and I was already suspicious of the person you replaced so....

Vote:Rashilul

The Rashilul vote could be fair, he WAS playing like an idiot.

But the question i am asking is: Why the fuck were you suspicious about the guy who he replaced? He posted ONCE.

Explain yourself.

You're kidding right? If you can have a short temper,so can I. Why dont you fucking look through the posts and you might find out? And I was going to unvote,but you just made me even more suspicious.

HowardRoark is suspicious. I don't have anything to add to d3x and Zachrulez' notes on him: suffice it to say I agree with their reasons for finding him scummy. I can provide more detail if someone wants, but I think that'll do for now.

srg has been my vote for a while now, and I still think he's the best place for my vote by a long shot, for two reasons. (Post numbers are for srg's posts only, you can get these numbers by selecting "all posts from some rand0m guy" at the bottom of the topic.)

1) Inconsistency:

p8:

Well honestly,I really dont have any suspects. Everyones just confused,and bewildered the first day. And everyone is voting on luck,untill someone slips up.
And I tend not to vote the first day for the simple fact that there is almost never a mafia lynched. I usually start getting suspects based on the lynching of a townie (which is near certain in all games) and start basing the the nightkill,and then see who would benefit the most from the nightkill and then compare it with the people who voted to lynch someone.

He says that he tends not to vote on the first day, and advocates a lurk-on-day-1 strategy.

Then, in p12:

Second suspect:SpiritMSTR
Reasons why?: He posts that im suspicious for not posting much,but then he doesnt come back even when blatantly asked a question. He has doesn't have enough content as me in this ONE post. And how come I'm the one being suspicious of lack of content when he obviously is acting kind of scummy?

He's suspicious of SpiritMSTR for: lurking on day 1. Hrm.

p15:

Now this is where I vote,since I can see everyone is watching my back to become active. I'm sorry Rashilul that is not a very good vote,and I was already suspicious of the person you replaced so....
Vote:Rashilul

Oy. So much for tending not to vote on the first day.

The initial reason I voted for srg was that he removed his random vote despite saying earlier that it would generate discussion. This is inconsistent. He has also been inconsistent about his voting strategy, and his attitude towards lurking seems to me markedly different between when he does it and when Spirit did it.

2) Trying to blend in with other players when he does post.

He even says that this is his strategy in p9:

I know as a townie myself,I'd much rather stay in the back and be cautious then be in the front yelling at everyone.

More alarming is p15, which I've already mentioned. He basically said that one of the primary reasons for his vote was that "everyone is watching my back to become active." I'd say that the equivalent meaning here is that he's voting to become less conspicuous to other posters. This is scummy.

@somerand0mguy:
Why vote for Rashilul when you've previously stated that you "tend not to vote on Day 1?" Your three primary reasons for the vote that you mentioned in your post were:

1: Everyone is watching your back to become active.
2: You were suspicious of SpiritMSTR.
3: Rashilul's vote for d3x was poor quality.

3 is a decent reason, but voting to appear more "active" is just not a good reason to vote. Do you have any explanation as to this being a good reason to vote somebody?

As for reason 2:
Why were you suspicious of Spirit for lurking? Or in different words, why were you suspicious of him for doing the exact same thing that you advocated as your day 1 strategy?

Your reasons, taken together, don't seem to be strong enough to outweigh your stated tendency to "not vote the first day."

You're kidding right? You ask me not to lurk,then when I do input my vote then you want to lynch me for it?

[Zachrulez]

Well you were suspicious of a lurker after being a lurker yourself. You can see how that might be a problem for the rest of us can't you?

[JamesBond]

@somerandomguy

First, sorry, the swarewords were unessecary from my part. Were at work and pretty stressed up coz i was working to a deadline (dunno why i even were on mafia then really).

Anyways: SpiritMSTR said one thing and one thing only about you, that you were playing odd. And you pretty much were, you were voting for yourself and such.

Later on you voted for Rashilul "because you were suspicious of the one he replaced", which was spiritMSTR, who only said you were odd. Ever.

For me, that means your vote is and delayed OMGUS, and the guy who you delayed-OMGUSed have been replaced twice. For me, thats either scummy or just plain bad play.

Thats why i want you to explain yourself.

[JamesBond]

@Dx3

I got an avatar!

[HowardRoark]

Sorry for the absence. I will be catching up tonight and tomorrow.

[Dizzle]

Once again, sorry for my absence. It was a busy weekend and a rough Monday back in the real world.

Anyway, very quick thoughts tonight before longer posts tomorrow: sigma and zach have pointed out SRG's scumminess and I tend to agree with them. Obviously, the biggest question is: why vote someone for lurking when you have stated that is your preferred strategy?

Another question: Why quote sigma's big long post if you're barely even going to offer up a response? Methinks that was unnecessary.

I'll withhold my vote and give you the opportunity to defend yourself with something more than "You're kidding right?"

[HowardRoark]

1

Yeah, that's a rather noticeable contradiction.

2

Also I see a subtle attempt to push Ipeanut into voting for d3x.

1. Addressed in post 102
2. Asking for an explanation is not a subtle attempt to push a vote.

The Scum will be able to target Town every night, but they don't know that they will kill a Townie every night. There could be a Doc in the game, don't forget.

It's not good to rely on town power roles, especially doctor protection. I refer you to the Wiki for the doctor save statistics.

@JamesBond: Nice catch in 136.


I think that somerand0mguy deserves more pressure as we deserve some answers to questions.

unvote
vote somerand0mguy

[Zachrulez]

1

Yeah, that's a rather noticeable contradiction.

2

Also I see a subtle attempt to push Ipeanut into voting for d3x.

1. Addressed in post 102

Can you show me where you address that?