Mini 807 - Save the Mafia! (Game Over!)

[Wickedestjr]

By you guys (not all of you, I believe it was wicked who was enforcing it after Reckoner stated it) saying that I'm scummy along with DRK and lobster for being on the bandwagons.

I don't think DRK is scum.

Plus, I thought this was interesting, and to completely point fingers, check Wicked's other game. He is guilt of the exact same thing. Jumping on the bandwagons that lead to lynching. And he does it for less reason than CoCo gave when he was being suspected a few days ago. Just up and voted. So wicked, if you're going to accuse us and call out contradictions, remember that you've done the same.

Just because I made a contradiction myself, by accident, that doesn't mean I have to ignore all other contradictions that occur. Did you want me to ignore it? Oh and just warning you, that is an ongoing game so you shouldn't be talking about it.

@Mod - I am fine with the deadline, but I would also be fine if others wanted to change it.

[Wickedestjr]

I have seen RVS bandwagons and it's interesting that CB and lobster both put the second random vote on someone, considering the possible link, especially since CB later tried so hard to defend his random voting.

Having said that, I think the lobster withholding his vote on CB thing is grasping at straws and this post made me more suspicious of CB than lobster.

Do you think NHT could be linked with the two of them?

Do you find it scummy that lobster did not hesitate to vote for reckoner or coco, but he did hesitate to vote for CB?

I don't think that my post made CB more suspicious of lobster or visa-versa, I just think that it showed a link. Who would you rather lynch out of the two?

[Wickedestjr]

Question to NHT: How suspicious of lobster are you?

Question to everybody: Other than my contradiction earlier, what exactly have I done that has seemed scummy, because I've notieced at least a few of you are suspicious of me.

[Wickedestjr]

At the risk of sounding like I'm lobster's scumbuddy, I don't think he's that scummy.

What?!?

[DeathRowKitty]

Exactly... how is my case flimsy, again?

::eyeroll::

Great logic there, chief.

I'm perfectly aware I didn't give any reasoning whatsoever. If I did, I'd be accused of defending him and my post was just to give a general idea of my suspicions.

What have I done, that has made you want to lynch me?

I just picked the two names that were coming up most often as lynch candidates. I figure if neither of you is lynched, no one will gain enough support quickly enough. If you read my most recent post, you'll see I currently don't have reason to want to lynch you.

Do you think NHT could be linked with the two of them [CB and lobster]?

I won't say it isn't possible, but to me it's very unlikely, since I'm only really suspicious of one of the three.

Do you find it scummy that lobster did not hesitate to vote for reckoner or coco, but he did hesitate to vote for CB?

Not particularly. His CB FoS, un-random vote, vote CB sequence made perfect sense to me. When CDB brought up reasons not to withhold a vote D1, lobster started using his vote more liberally. It did seem like he succumbed too easily to pressure to vote CB, but he said it was because he agreed with CDB and he's been following it the rest of the game.

@Reckoner
Well I guess I did give a some of the reasons I think the lobster case is flimsy.

I don't think that my post made CB more suspicious of lobster or visa-versa, I just think that it showed a link. Who would you rather lynch out of the two?

At the moment, CB, but neither is a particularly strong lynch candidate to me. CB's been a bit quiet since we started going after others (part of it was V/LA), which, in addition to my previously stated reasons, makes him my biggest suspicion. However, I don't feel he's a good choice for lynch unless everyone else we're after defends him/herself (actually I'm pretty sure everyone in this game is a he).

[DeathRowKitty]

@Wicked

I (along with NHT) have been connected to lobster because of our votes. When I said lobster wasn't scummy, some people might have gotten the idea we were scumbuddies. I was acknowledging that appearance. It's just my posting style.

[Wickedestjr]

Not particularly. His CB FoS, un-random vote, vote CB sequence made perfect sense to me. When CDB brought up reasons not to withhold a vote D1, lobster started using his vote more liberally. It did seem like he succumbed too easily to pressure to vote CB, but he said it was because he agreed with CDB and he's been following it the rest of the game.

Good point. I forgot about that. As a matter of fact, I'm starting to consider lynching CB instead as well, but I still want to hear lobster's defense first.

[stuntkeyboardist]

Question to NHT: How suspicious of lobster are you?

I'm not. He's on my possible scum list because he's been quiet, but that's all that I can hold against him at the moment. Without more evidence, I cannot place him, and I'm not lynching him for less active play than the rest of us.

Now from you Wicked, I want three solid reasons why you think he's the best lynching candidate. You're so forceful that he should be gone. Why? Just bullet your top three please.

[stuntkeyboardist]

Actually, I want to hear more from lobster, ryan, C_o, My Milked Eek, and CB. There's been a lot going on and we only get one post every once and a while from these players. How do you guys feel about the given situation?

[Wickedestjr]

Question to NHT: How suspicious of lobster are you?

I'm not. He's on my possible scum list because he's been quiet, but that's all that I can hold against him at the moment. Without more evidence, I cannot place him, and I'm not lynching him for less active play than the rest of us.

Now from you Wicked, I want three solid reasons why you think he's the best lynching candidate. You're so forceful that he should be gone. Why? Just bullet your top three please.

1: He hesitated to vote for CB, yet didn't hesitate to vote for anybody else.

2: He has linked himself to other players in the game, so his lynch would tell us more about other players.

3: He hasn't contributed much. (I would not usually want to lynch somebody for this reason alone, but you wanted my top three, and I guess that's in there.)

[xRECKONERx]

I really still have a gut feeling about lobster. Take a look back at his posts for yourself. However, if we're

not

going to lynch lobster, I'd really like to see a CASE laid out against someone else, not just "Hey, this person, cuz they're scummy".

[Wickedestjr]

Also, I am considering changing my vote to CB once I have heard lobster's defense.

What do you think of CB?

[Wickedestjr]

One more thing (sorry). Lobster's contribution has been more helpful then that of CB, and CB has acted scummier, so I am most likely going to change my vote when I hear lobster's defense, unless he says something strange.

[xRECKONERx]

I haven't paid much attention to CB, but I'll give him a consideration and do a skim solely to evaluate his scumminess.

[stuntkeyboardist]

Also, I am considering changing my vote to CB once I have heard lobster's defense.

What do you think of CB?

One more thing (sorry). Lobster's contribution has been more helpful then that of CB, and CB has acted scummier, so I am most likely going to change my vote when I hear lobster's defense, unless he says something strange.

First of all, thank you for your response about lobster. I understand your first two points (first is fact, second I cant really support), but I disagree with your third bullet. On the other hand I understand how others would feel that's scummy. I'll address my opinions on this in detail if you wish, but I think they're self explanatory.

Now for your question:

What do I think of CB?
In the beginning we had the whole voting thing. We all know how that went, so I'll move on from that point. After being accused then and finally recovering, CB has sort of died out. I was just looking back, and I saw that he seems to pop in every once and a while to give a "meh" post. You know, the "I'm here so dont replace me" post. They never say anything. The last point that CB made was against xRx trying to accuse him of more scummy behavior. However, we had already gone over the points and I feel safe in saying that I trust xRx's claim. I may be wrong, but that's a point to address in D2 after we have some info on our lynch, the night kill, and his possible night actions. I'm starting to get the feeling that he's playing under the radar, and just judging by the beginning of the game, I know that he would otherwise be a more vocal player had we not voted him. This leads to the question: Is he hiding something? Maybe he doesnt want to be accused again.

Another thing that I noticed was that he has not yet addressed the recent accusations against him. He just pops in and disappears for the rest of the day.

So, given the choice between CB and lobster, I would choose CB easily. However, this is not saying that lobster is innocent, just that I'm not suspecting him at the moment (which I addressed above). I'd like to hear MUCH more from each player.

Can I get a top three on why you suspect CB please?

[stuntkeyboardist]

Just a quick correction, I realize that I'm not suspecting lobster so much because he hasn't given us a lot to work with. At the same time, I'm suspecting CB moreso because he isn't speaking much.

The difference is that we know CB is pretty vocal, but that sort of died out after his recovery. Whereas lobster has been pretty consistent in his lack of posting.

What I'm trying to say is that my reasons arent contradictions. While similar, they apply to two different people with different posting personalities.

Again, I'd like lobster and CB especially to respond more, as well as the others. This game seems to keep turning into two people playing at a time.

[canadianbovine]

so i understand that i'm a lynch candidate because i post very little now?

yet other people have been quiet, why am i being chosen? Because of the actions of another? thats lobster, not me.

it has been very hard to keep up with this game, we've gone through almost 30 pages and we've outed two power roles and still havent ended this day. It has gotten...tedious.


we mentioned that certain people are on the same bandwagons. thats a good find for who found that [sorry can't remember right now]
DRK's post above where he defends lobster to make me seem like a better candidate is very suspicious. Like he has gone against what everyone else has said that lobsters "slow vote progression to me" wasnt scummy, and thats why im the better lynch candidate.

personally, i want some lobster or kitty for dinner.

[DeathRowKitty]

DRK's post above where he defends lobster to make me seem like a better candidate is very suspicious. Like he has gone against what everyone else has said that lobsters "slow vote progression to me" wasnt scummy, and thats why im the better lynch candidate.

I wasn't defending lobster to make you seem like a better candidate. I wasn't even intending on defending him, although guess that's what I did. I was asked specifically about lobster's voting patterns and that's why I gave my take on them. I think you're a better lynch candidate because I don't find lobster that scummy and I do find you a bit scummy. I see nothing wrong with that.

You didn't actually defend yourself in that post. Your post could be summarized as "I'm not scum. I agree with other people: let's lynch someone besides me." CoCo could have given us that! You're not a candidate because you post very little. You're a candidate because
1) You used to post a lot and now post little and often without much content.
2) You're quick to try to direct our attention elsewhere (which you did again in your last post).
3) (This may not be a factor with other people but) your random voting incident still doesn't sit well with me. Alone, it wasn't enough to keep you on the hot seat, but along with the other factors, I still find it relevant.

[Wickedestjr]

First of all, thank you for your response about lobster. I understand your first two points (first is fact, second I cant really support),

Why do you feel that you can't support the second point?

but I disagree with your third bullet. On the other hand I understand how others would feel that's scummy.

I don't think it is that scummy either, because I understand it is a part of his meta.

I'll address my opinions on this in detail if you wish, but I think they're self explanatory.

The only one I would like a little bit more elaborating on is your opinion of the second point.

After being accused then and finally recovering, CB has sort of died out.

Yeah, I noticed that too.

I was just looking back, and I saw that he seems to pop in every once and a while to give a "meh" post. You know, the "I'm here so dont replace me" post. They never say anything.

This is something I will look into once lobster has defended himself.

The last point that CB made was against xRx trying to accuse him of more scummy behavior. However, we had already gone over the points and I feel safe in saying that I trust xRx's claim. I may be wrong, but that's a point to address in D2 after we have some info on our lynch, the night kill, and his possible night actions.

I have a feeling that xRx's claim will corner him eventually if he is lying. For now I am willing to believe it as well.

I'm starting to get the feeling that he's playing under the radar, and just judging by the beginning of the game, I know that he would otherwise be a more vocal player had we not voted him.

Soon I most probably will look at his scum meta and town meta and see which is most similar to his play in this game.

This leads to the question: Is he hiding something? Maybe he doesnt want to be accused again.

When exactly did he stop talking as much?

Another thing that I noticed was that he has not yet addressed the recent accusations against him. He just pops in and disappears for the rest of the day.

That's true.

So, given the choice between CB and lobster, I would choose CB easily.

I'm probably going to switch my vote after I hear lobster's defense.

However, this is not saying that lobster is innocent, just that I'm not suspecting him at the moment (which I addressed I'd like to hear MUCH more from each player.above).

I too would like to hear more from ryan, quints, c_o, CB, CoCo, lobster, and MME.

Can I get a top three on why you suspect CB please?

1: He kind of disappeared once the suspicions was on other players.

2: Earlier when he said he started the discussion and ended the RVS, when he had woke up without a plan.

3: He is linked to lobster.

[Wickedestjr]

so i understand that i'm a lynch candidate because i post very little now?

You posted more before we were all suspicious of you. Why?

other people have been quiet, why am i being chosen?

Because the amount they post has stayed the same. You have posted less. And it just happened to be sometime after we let you off the hook.

Because of the actions of another? thats lobster, not me.

No, your actions have added on to the suspicious things about you. You don't need Lobster to help you appear scummy.

It has been very hard to keep up with this game, we've gone through almost 30 pages and we've outed two power roles and still havent ended this day. It has gotten...tedious.

Can you please point us to where you have informed us about you being behind in the game?

we mentioned that certain people are on the same bandwagons. thats a good find for who found that [sorry can't remember right now]

Does anybody think this seems like CB trying to divert discussion away from him? Convince me you aren't CB!

DRK's post above where he defends lobster to make me seem like a better candidate is

not very

suspicious.

I fixed it for you CB. What post of DRK's are you talking about?

Personally, i want some lobster or kitty for dinner.

First of all that is cannibalism. Second of all, we'll probably be lynching
you before DRK or lobster.

[Wickedestjr]

The PBPA of CB

[mrow]Post # [col] Day of Post [col] Summary of Post [col] My Comments 1 [col] June 11th [col] Confirmation [col] Okay 2 [col] June 11th [col] Comments on his avatar and other's avatars. [col] Whatever 3 [col] June 12th [col] Randomly votes NHT. [col] Okay 4 [col] June 12th [col] Continues the random dicussion of NHT and how hard it would be to type with no hands. [col] Whatever 5 [col] June 13th [col] Comments on my random vote. [col] Okay 6 [col] June 13th [col] Comments on xRx's random vote. [col] Okay, good. We got a player that's really interested in this game and is open to full contribution. I can tell because the first three days of the game, he has made at least two posts. 7 [col] June 13th [col] Informs us about his research on moose. [col] Um.... 8 [col] June 13th [col] Unvotes NHT to keep him out of L-2. [col] What made you think he was at L-2 any way? I looked at c_o's post, and the votecount in it showed that NHT only had two votes which is L-5. 9 [col] June 13th [col] Says we need to decide what we will call the mafia and town. [col] Okay 10 [col] June 13th [col] Questions CDB's logic. [col] Whatever 11 [col] June 13th [col] Revotes NHT. [col] Okay 12 [col] June 13th [col] Explains why he revoted. [col] Wow, he's been really active today. 13 [col] June 13th [col] Explains what the purpose of his random vote was. [col] Whatever 14 [col] June 13th [col] Explains why he thinks the RVS is important. [col] Okay 15 [col] June 13th [col] Says why he thinks his vote on NHT remains as a good tool. [col] Whatever 16 & 17 [col] June 13th [col] He says in both posts that he woke up without a plan at all. [col] Okay, he doesn't have a plan. 18 [col] June 13th [col]Replies to c_o [col] Whatever 19 [col] June 13th [col] Declares that the RVS is over, and it is all his doing. [col] Oh, but didn't you say that you woke up without a plan? 20 [col] June 13th [col] Accusing NHT of voting CB for CB's vote on NHT. [col] That's pretty stupid. It looks to me like scum grasping at straws. 21 [col] June 13th [col] Says that he thought 5 was the majority. [col] Okay 22 [col] June 13th [col] He points out that he woke up without a plan to answer somebody's question. [col] Okay, so you even admit that you woke up without a plan shortly after saying the discussion started because of you. 23 [col] June 13th [col] Says it was a plan of his. [col] That is a bit of a contradiction there. 24 [col] June 14th [col] CB accuses lobster. [col] Looks like he's trying to divert the discussion away from him to another player. 25 [col] June 14th [col] Replies to MME. [col] Whatever 26 [col] June 14th [col] Points out a mistake that he made. [col] Okay

Sorry I could not finish it. I will finish it tomorrow, but I don't have any more time. So far CB has tried to make himself seem pro-town by saying he started the discussion, which he didn't. He also tries to divert discussion away from him which seems scummy.
Sorry I couldn't finish.

To be continued...

[CoCo]

DISCLAIMER: I am not sober, having a damn good holiday. Just happened to stumble across a laptop.

Looking over this thread I noticed some stuff...

FFS! Now we're back to CB? Lobster gives us another contentless post (but will be more than happy to jump on a bandwagon). Deflection much?

I am perfectly happy lynching either DRK or Lobster. NHT and Wicked are the pivot in which the game is held. One of them is scum, but I have no idea which.

Unvote: DRK

I'm ready when the other townies choose a lynchee. I.E. Lobster or DRK...

[My Milked Eek]

I'm up to #502. Same as before: if you feel the need to answer, do so, if not, don't. If stuff has been answered/or cleared up after #502, ignore the question/note. Final stretch coming tomorrow.

Continuing from before:

>> reckonvig

C_o: "Could you clarify what's townie play in your opinion?" ^(#258)
I'm not sure what to make out of this. It's dodgy.

This arc then dies, with only one heavy opponent in the end; qax as shown by his 301.

>> wicked

I can fully agree with reckoner in his 330 when he brings up wicked's contradictions and his distancing of reckoner.

lol, especially after the lurker comment above it. It could be coincidence, but it looks to me like it'd be too much of a coincidence that he posts 1 hour after being called out on lurking.

"@xRx - Do you plan on killing anybody tonight?"

~ wicked (364).
Fishing. Period.

"Now that the bandwagon on him has died, he seems to be deflecting attention away from him."

~ wicked (#368).

>> cocop

I agree with this. Coco feels like omgussing kitty throughout the thread up until this point.

After being quiet for some pages, coco comes back and finds a building case on wicked "intriguing". Feels like egging wicked.

"

I honestly don't care what the vig does. The role, if used wisely, helps the town, and I'm VERY pro town.

" ~ coco;
Seriously, could you be more obvious? And another rather obvious statement by coco. Making such statements is always counterproductive. A few pages later: yet another one.

Coco then makes a few interesting statements about lobsters suspiciousness.

A feeble attempt at finding something to use against wicked as wicked's vote is justified.

The I need 36 hours to post post is crap and, imo, you're trying to find enough material that might pass as evidence for a statment you made a while ago to shake off suspicion. gft

I'm not sure if it has been brought up yet, but:
"

I've played Mafia on a few other non-mafia based forums. I'd rather not name those forums to protect my anonymity.

" ~ #502 Coco
But didn't you say you had little forum experience?

>> wolf

This post by kitty implies a certain urge or need to push the wolfram slot and comes over as trying not to appeear to pushy by asking how to handle replacements.

Another kitty replacement post.

>> statistics 101

nht, drk, wicked: what did you hope to achieve with the little math/stats posting? Let me be very suggestive: to appear protown by using theory discussion?

>> other oddities and general things

I don't like nht post about qax being v/la. It's blatantly stupid.

@MME
Do you still feel the need to keep a vote on Reckoner?

Of course not, but I hadn't been on in quite some time. Also, does it matter that much if he's at 1 vote or at 0 if the only vote he has is because of laziness/unableness to unvote? He's not being suspected or wasn't close to being hammered, so I wonder why you felt you needed to bring this up.

---

At this point I'm going to have to out my suspicions in the general wicked-coco direction. More towards coco than wicked if needed to make a choice.

[CoCo]

MEE, you sure are behind. Glad you're catching up though.

I said I was new to THIS forum. Not forums in general. I've made several posts about it before the one you mention, as well as after. In fact, I've gotten better.

[DeathRowKitty]

nht, drk, wicked: what did you hope to achieve with the little math/stats posting? Let me be very suggestive: to appear protown by using theory discussion?

Reckoner said he wasn't going to kill unless he was sure and NHT told him he should kill no matter what. Math is my strongpoint, so I figured I'd do a statistical analysis to see what the math said. Initially I agreed with Reckoner, but the math and comments from other players have since convinced me NHT was right.

Another kitty replacement post.

Since it's pointless now anyway, that post also doubled as a potential trap. If anyone picked choice 1, it would be obvious the person was too hasty for a lynch. If anyone picked choice 2, it's still scummy and too hasty. Choice 3 was IMO the best choice given, but needed some qualification to be considered correct. All actual responses given to it seemed alright to me, so I never bothered to mention this. My first post on that was a poorer attempt at doing so, partially because I was more interested in what to do at that point. By the time of the second post, it had become clearer to me what the correct course of action was and I could structure my post much better.

At this point I'm going to have to out my suspicions in the general wicked-coco direction. More towards coco than wicked if needed to make a choice.

Here's what it comes down to to me: are you willing to risk lynching someone who's claimed cop D1 based on current evidence? How sure do you have to be and how sure would you say you are (and of course why)?

I am perfectly happy lynching either DRK or Lobster. NHT and Wicked are the pivot in which the game is held. One of them is scum, but I have no idea which.

Two questions:
1) If you think lynching NHT/Wicked gives us a 1/2 chance for getting scum, why wouldn't you be alright with lynching one of them?
2) Why do you feel one of them has to be scum?