Newbie 800 ~ Mafia: The Reality Show (Game Over!)

For Newbie Games, which have a set format and experienced moderators. Archived during the 2023 queue overhaul.
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Post Post #250 (ISO) » Thu Jul 02, 2009 12:24 pm

Post by Raskol »

Haylen wrote:
Raskol wrote: Telling me to stop "tunneling" you because someone might find me scummy for it (ohnoes!) is super scummy.
Um, no it's not! I've done it plenty of times and people have actually said they agree with me, if you'd actually taken note of the posts you linked, you would've seen that.
You're basically threatening me that if I don't leave you alone people are going to attack me for it. That's scummy, regardless of how many times you've done it.
Raskol wrote: Everything you've done, though, has just made you seem scummier and scummier
Oh dear! I have a selfconfessed controversial playstyle. Other people say the same, it's still developing. And if you're town, you really need to work on your selective scumhunting because a) it's a reason i'm voting for you. b) it'll come back to haunt you later on, so it's best to sort out whilst in a newbie game.
If by "selective scumhunting" you mean going after the person who seems scummiest to me, then I very much doubt it's going to "come back and haunt me later" (emotional appeal). If you think that the fact that I'm making a case against you means I'm ignoring the behavior of the other players in the game, you're wrong. I'm keeping my eyes on everyone---but 'pressure' is a limited resource and I think I'll prefer to keep mine concentrated so that it's actually effective.

By saying that my "selective scumhunting" (ie focusing on you for a while) is a reason you're voting for me, it very much seems as if you're admitting that you've OMGUSed me. If this isn't true, please explain what you actually meant, and explain why you didn't bring it up before, when you gave your reasons for voting me (the only reason you gave was your case against auditor).
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Post Post #251 (ISO) » Thu Jul 02, 2009 12:44 pm

Post by Raskol »

Onion---it has seemed very much to me as if you've been trying to appease everyone over the past couple of pages.

I asked you some questions a while back which you've ignored. Telling me you like my style and agreeing with some of the points I've made against Haylen is not going to make me forget that.
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Post Post #252 (ISO) » Thu Jul 02, 2009 1:00 pm

Post by Haylen »

Raskol, may I reference you to this page
http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php ... Version.29

That is what I'm getting at, it can be used in this situation to. It's not only I, but many other far more experienced members of this site agree with it. Tunnelling or selective scumhunting is a scumtell. By not questioning other players and concentrating on me, you're tunnelling.

I wasn't appealing to emotion, I'm actually trying to help you improve your play. I would like Anticollie to weigh in here with his opinion on this when he has the time.

I voted you because yourself and Auditor committed scumtells. Not OMGUS, they're crap votes and I totally disagree with them.
Seriously. Read your role PM before playing.
I am sorry if you have to prod me, I have absolutely no concept of time.

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Post Post #253 (ISO) » Thu Jul 02, 2009 1:11 pm

Post by Raskol »

Haylen wrote:Raskol, may I reference you to this page
http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php ... Version.29

That is what I'm getting at, it can be used in this situation to. It's not only I, but many other far more experienced members of this site agree with it. Tunnelling or selective scumhunting is a scumtell. By not questioning other players and concentrating on me, you're tunnelling.

I wasn't appealing to emotion, I'm actually trying to help you improve your play. I would like Anticollie to weigh in here with his opinion on this when he has the time.

I voted you because yourself and Auditor committed scumtells. Not OMGUS, they're crap votes and I totally disagree with them.
First of all: you can't just say you don't OMGUS and make it true.

Second: you clearly don't understand the wiki entry you linked to.
Mafia Wiki wrote: Selective Scumhunting

The general form of this tell is "players who focus on a specific scum faction or factions in a game with multiple known scum factions are likely to be scum themselves".

This tell can be tricky to apply, since the case for a player being scum in a multiple-faction game may hinge around said player's connections to known scum from a specific faction. This tell applies under two circumstances: 1) a player builds a case that is predicated around a player being part of a less-significant scum faction (especially a case built around a specific player being SK and not Mafia), or 2) a player all-but-ignores a specific scum faction or factions when scumhunting. Case 1) is a weak tell, Case 2) is fairly strong.
This only applies to games where there are multiple scum factions---like if there are 2+ mafia groups, or mafia groups and SKs, or something similar. Basically, it means that townies in such games are going to be looking for all the different scum factions, whereas scum in such games are likely to hunt for the competing scum factions, but not their own. It has nothing to do with people who make cases against one person at a time.

Now, it is really hard for me to tell at this point whether you are a really bad scum or a really bad townie player, but honestly the amount of craplogic you are throwing at me is really amazing.
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Post Post #254 (ISO) » Thu Jul 02, 2009 1:18 pm

Post by Echo »

(114) haylen wrote:I find things difficult at the beginning of games, you see, I'm a Meta Queen, meaning I read as many games as possible from the players in the game to check out their game technique as scum and town ect and similarities with the game they're in with me. But it has recently been drawn to my attention that meta-ing is inappropriate in Newbie games so I must refrain from doing it. Trouble is, because we usually have very little information Day One, this is where I tend to get the majority of my info from.
(247) haylen wrote:Oh dear! I have a selfconfessed controversial playstyle. Other people say the same, it's still developing.
Are you referring to the same playstyle in these two posts?
(247) haylen wrote:
(246) raskol wrote: Telling me to stop "tunneling" you because someone might find me scummy for it (ohnoes!) is super scummy.
Um, no it's not! I've done it plenty of times and people have actually said they agree with me, if you'd actually taken note of the posts you linked, you would've seen that.
I couldn't find an exact article, but that sounds like something along the lines of Appeal to Majority or Argument from Repetition (in a sense) to me. Also, Haylen is telling Raskol that
someone else
will find him scummy for focussing only on her. I don't think anyone here can speak for anyone else.
(249) onion wrote:but i don't support later two points. Haylen posting less content than Auditor should not be a factor in determining which one has a better point, nor is Haylen (who seems rather scatterbrained)
forgetting who replaced who
out of the question.
Your sentence here doesn't really make sense, but since you said you don't support the later two points, I assume you mean that you don't think Haylen forgetting who replaced who should be used against Haylen?

If so, I disagree. Bringing up the first post of the topic only takes one click from any page you're on - clicking the "1" or the topic title. Saying you don't know who replaced who so you don't extend your argument to the person who replaced sounds either like laziness, which can be anti-town, or trying to avoid plotholes in your argument, which is scummy.
(252) haylen wrote:Tunnelling or selective scumhunting is a scumtell. By not questioning other players and concentrating on me, you're tunnelling.
I'm curious now. When does this apply?
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Post Post #255 (ISO) » Thu Jul 02, 2009 1:40 pm

Post by onion »

i missed questions?...
ah from 187 i guess. (right?)
Raskol 187 wrote:
onion wrote: i tend to include player lists in my posts because it is a safe place to keep my notes without loosing them. it is there for me primarily and if it helps out anyone else, the better. it's also a place to keep my suspicions that are currently on the back burner.
Why not use a word document? I see no reason why something that is mostly for you should need to go onto the thread, especially if it is not the kind of info that is going to help town.
because i often post from public computers around campus, and thus i'd need an online document (like provided by Google Documents). but once i started saving my notes online, i had the desire to share them with the rest of the players, but that is against the rules (communicating outside of the thread) so now i keep condensed notes at the bottoms of my posts. it isn't intended to be not helpful, just a place for me to put things that are not the main argument. some times it is useful for other players, and at worst just takes up space. i can reduce the size of the text or something if you feel it is taking up too much screen for the value of the words.
Raskol 187 wrote:
onion wrote: new people yay!
Raskol (Auditor) it totally being useful and not simply waiting for this day to end. he currently suspects me and Sideney, which does not seem to be what Auditor thought. from what i read he suspected Ric and me, but backed off to focus only on me. Raskol's case on Sideney is well put but i disagree that Sideney not voting for Echo was scummy. rest of it's good though.
You need to elaborate on why you agree with and disagree with the parts of it that you did. I don't get any benefit from just seeing which parts you like and which you don't, and neither does the rest of the town.
the only part of your initial argument i had fault with was that you were considering Sideney's 045 scummy. it didn't seem that voting or not voting had any bearing on the situation at the time, and so you calling Sideney out for not voting seemed far fetched. not voting for someone (especially so early) does not seem like a good scumtell at all.
Raskol 187 wrote:
onion wrote: it doesn't seem right to vote for Sideney now that he has so many votes on him. i had growing suspicions before, but they weren't put-you-at-lynch-minus-one suspicions. Sideney's 163 is so scummy it must be tongue in cheek. he deserves a vote put on him for it, and he's already gotten one (or two). the statement, however, fits nicely with his apparent standpoint that today is already over, thus it warrants the amount of suspicion that it is already receiving.
onion wrote: continuing with the defense of my actions, it is a fair assumption that only a scum would hammer, or a pro-town with proof would hammer, so early. in either of these cases we guarantee at least one scum kill, which would be totally awesome for the town. Cyren flipping scum would not tell us anything about the alignment of the hammerer, but we'd have killed a scum anyway so it'd be fine. i didn't consider a pro-town having info a possibility in my initial defense, and so i didn't include it. i did not put Cyren at L-1 because i particularly suspected her. i had but one iota of evidence which has since almost vanished under the weight of other stuff.
This seems inconsistent to me. Care to explain why it was okay to put Cyren at L-1 for basically nothing, while your (presumably more substantial) suspicions of Sideney don't warrant an L-1?
i did not vote for Cyren because i suspected her. it was a primarily random vote, placed on one of the two players who crossvoted. i put it on Cyren because it has the added bonus of possibly tricking a scum into hammering, which would catch us a scum. plus it was fun. by comparison, Sideney has a real case built against him, with real suspicions things to think about, and it would not do to whimsically vote at this time. the same argument does not apply for this later L-1 because there is enough evidence abound that the hammerering scum would stand a chance defending themselves, thus it would be best to avoid a situation where the scum can easily control the day lynches.

@Echo, yeah read the sentence without the interjection for it to flow better. '...nor is Haylen forgetting who replaced who out of the question.' as in 'it is not out of the question for scatterbrained Haylen to forget who replaced who.' voting for Raskol because of suspicions placed on Auditor is legit because we know they share the same alignment. Haylen's argument is based completly on Auditor, and so it doesn't seem to matter who his replacement is. not bothering to look up the name before posting is defiantly lazy, but in this situation i consider it anti-town instead of scummy.

does answering your questions count as appeasing you?
yeah baby. show me that hot quote in quote action!
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Post Post #256 (ISO) » Thu Jul 02, 2009 1:45 pm

Post by Haylen »

Raskol wrote: Second: you clearly don't understand the wiki entry you linked to.
Um clearly i do. It can apply to general play aswell. Would you like a list of games which prove I'm blatantly right?
Now, it is really hard for me to tell at this point whether you are a really bad scum or a really bad townie player, but honestly the amount of craplogic you are throwing at me is really amazing.
I really don't see how what I'm saying is crap logic. And honestly, if you don't see how that wiki can be applied to this situation then clearly you are scum trying to cover his own back.
Echo wrote: Are you referring to the same playstyle in these two posts?
Definately. I've got some of my playstyle sorted out but the rest of it is aweful. Would you like a link to a game where I meta'd everybody to death but was still called scummy because my playstyle's controversial? I've got a fresh one right here, just been lynched for those exact reasons.
Echo wrote: couldn't find an exact article, but that sounds like something along the lines of Appeal to Majority or Argument from Repetition (in a sense) to me. Also, Haylen is telling Raskol that someone else will find him scummy for focussing only on her. I don't think anyone here can speak for anyone else.
No. Most people agree with the tunnelling thing. And I would also advise you not to misrepresent me Echo, I never said somebody else IN THIS GAME would find him scummy. I said people in other games would, in Little Italy or somewhere like that.
I'm curious now. When does this apply?
Tunnelling is focusing on one player, it is a scum tactic to target one player and keep on and on at them like Raskol has been. That wiki does not always work with all players, some players wont get emotional, usually because they're town but there are other players who refuse to show emotion whatever happens. But that is definately wifom. (pronounced whiff-um in my head)
Seriously. Read your role PM before playing.
I am sorry if you have to prod me, I have absolutely no concept of time.

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Post Post #257 (ISO) » Thu Jul 02, 2009 1:49 pm

Post by Haylen »

i'll reply to any other posts tomorrow. It's 2am here, time for my bed. And im not allowed to post after 11pm or when i just wake up because I get extremely moody.
Seriously. Read your role PM before playing.
I am sorry if you have to prod me, I have absolutely no concept of time.

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Post Post #258 (ISO) » Thu Jul 02, 2009 2:06 pm

Post by Raskol »

Haylen wrote:
Raskol wrote: Second: you clearly don't understand the wiki entry you linked to.
Um clearly i do. It can apply to general play aswell. Would you like a list of games which prove I'm blatantly right?
Now, it is really hard for me to tell at this point whether you are a really bad scum or a really bad townie player, but honestly the amount of craplogic you are throwing at me is really amazing.
I really don't see how what I'm saying is crap logic. And honestly, if you don't see how that wiki can be applied to this situation then clearly you are scum trying to cover his own back.
I'm just going to quote the entry again. If you can point out to me any part of it which any sober person who speaks english could even widely interpret as applying to anything but a multiple scumfaction game, I'll give you a cookie.
Mafia Wiki wrote: Selective Scumhunting

The general form of this tell is "players who focus on a
specific scum faction or factions in a game with multiple known scum factions
are likely to be scum themselves".

This tell can be tricky to apply, since
the case for a player being scum
in a multiple-faction game
may hinge around said player's connections to known scum from a specific faction
.
This tell applies under two circumstances
: 1) a player builds a case that is predicated around a player being
part of a less-significant scum faction
(especially a case built around a specific player being SK and not Mafia), or 2) a player all-but-ignores a specific scum
faction or factions
when scumhunting. Case 1) is a weak tell, Case 2) is fairly strong.
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Post Post #259 (ISO) » Thu Jul 02, 2009 2:49 pm

Post by Nikanor »

Yeah, I'm going to go cooking now, I'll look at the Haylen-Raskol argument when I get back.
Oh, and I still support a sideney lynch 100%.
Clarification shall have to wait; je suis tres faim.
I am in the bottom 10% of scumhunters onsite!
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Post Post #260 (ISO) » Thu Jul 02, 2009 3:29 pm

Post by Vi »

Vote Count:

onion (3) ~ Anticollie, Lynch (Cyren), sideney

sideney (3) ~ Nikanor, ric, onion

Haylen (1) ~ Raskol
Raskol (1) ~ Haylen
Lynch (Cyren) (0) ~
onion


Not Voting:
Haylen,
Echo
[size=0]Anticollie 1 PROD1 14 | Raskol 0 | Lynch 1 | Echo 0 PROD1 6 | Haylen 0 PROD1 6 | onion 0 | Nikanor 0 | ric 0 | sideney 0 PROD0 4[/size]
--With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.
---I have an Independence Day surprise for you.

--Deadline is
Monday, July 6 2009.
(4 days left)

---This should be better than having to worry about this game over the holiday weekend. My deadlines fall at 2100 EST or so, btw.
Last edited by Vi on Fri Jul 03, 2009 12:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Post #261 (ISO) » Thu Jul 02, 2009 3:57 pm

Post by Nikanor »

sideney wrote:I'm townie. Analyze this for me. :D
Fine. I'll analyze it: you're scum claiming at L-3. Claiming town does not answer Echo's post. You are dodging the question. That analyzed enough for you?
Raskol wrote:Just to give some perspective: Haylen has posted 26 times on mafiascum since her last post in this thread.

Lurking. Scum. Lynch her. Today.
You want to miss out on Haylen's wonderful long-awaited post by lynching her before she can post it?
And what's up with the argument via repetition?
ric wrote:wait what? youve lost it 5 times? what do you mean 'lost it'?
please write it out on a text file and then save the text file. this increases my suspicion of you
Stupidity is not a scumtell.
Raskol wrote:Except she DOES have that much time to devote to mafia. Only for some reason, oddly enough, she's not spending any of it in this game.
Gasp. A person wants to spend more time posting in a thread in which the deadline is that day! OMG SCUMTELL 2 DA MAAAXXXXXX.
Tell me, did you even read the threads in which Haylen posted? More than three quarters of the posts you linked to were of a game in which she was at L-1 on the day of the deadline. You blame her for posting in that situation over this one?
In post 244, Raskol wrote: Blah Blah Blah.
I agree with most of this (see below).
In post 244, Raskol wrote:And if you've completely ignored this game, you're in no position to be making long analysis posts
Trying to discourage long analysis posts? I've been completely ignoring this game for a while. Do you think this post should be completely disregarded because I've been ignoring the thread?

Oh, and I'm still voting for sideney, just because I think lurkers need to die on day one.

Any
responsible
townie would RTFT before making cases against people, forming trust lists, etc...which you did just now.
Underlined phrases in the above quote are contrary to Nikanor's personality.
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You never said ANYTHING about Canada Day! Discrimination! D8<
*insert stereotypical-American ignorance-fueled statement about The United States of Canadia here* ~Vi
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Post Post #262 (ISO) » Thu Jul 02, 2009 8:47 pm

Post by sideney »

@Nikanor
If you want to kill lurker i think that Haylen is the best choice for day one, i give you plenty of post to make you think that i'm scum, surely i'm not lurking.
Show
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As Scum 1/3 Win but 1/1 Lynch
As doc 1 time.
As cop 1 time.
I'm a fucking noob!
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Post Post #263 (ISO) » Thu Jul 02, 2009 8:50 pm

Post by sideney »

Oh, yes, talking about lurking, where is our "king of analyze" aka Anticollie?
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As doc 1 time.
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Post Post #264 (ISO) » Thu Jul 02, 2009 9:09 pm

Post by ric »

oh....i was on here and reading the last few pages and going to post my comments but my girlfriend wants to watch planet earth before bed. ill get to this tomorrow. im on call in the morning and not working at night.

http://www.freeonlineepisodes.net/watch ... -for-free/

look halfway down the page and enjoy
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Post Post #265 (ISO) » Thu Jul 02, 2009 9:44 pm

Post by Haylen »

-Vi, I put my vote on Raskol somewhere on page 10

Oh, sorry. ~Vi
Seriously. Read your role PM before playing.
I am sorry if you have to prod me, I have absolutely no concept of time.

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Post Post #266 (ISO) » Thu Jul 02, 2009 10:17 pm

Post by sideney »

We are really going to a no lynch day? This we'll be the worst of all things that can happens, go on guys, don't be shy.:-D Lynch,lynch, lynch. I'm considering an Haylen lynch due to her real lurking habit like said by Raskol, someone else want to jump in?
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As doc 1 time.
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I'm a fucking noob!
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Post Post #267 (ISO) » Thu Jul 02, 2009 10:57 pm

Post by Haylen »

hmm... a Raskol/Sideney or Raskol/Echo scumpair. An interesting suggestion.
Sideney, go take a look at the nature of those posts Raskol linked before you make a judgement on me apparently having a lurking habit.
Seriously. Read your role PM before playing.
I am sorry if you have to prod me, I have absolutely no concept of time.

My prefered pronoun set is "cie/cir/cirs[elf]" but they is more than acceptable.
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Post Post #268 (ISO) » Thu Jul 02, 2009 10:57 pm

Post by ric »

:lol: she fell asleep

there is a lot of activity in this one. goddamn.

raskol

clarify the post below please. what is spamming the thread with "goatse"??
raskol 233 wrote:Player B claims scum and spams the thread with goatse (we'll assume that goatse-spamming is a nulltell which an troll townie or troll scum would be equally likely to do, but is super anti-town because it makes people want to avoid looking at the thread).
A) i dont think because sydeneys performance in game has been consistent doesnt mean hes any less suspicious for what hes doing, given his specific moves. but you do say its just his meta (although i havent checked this yet, i will though before monday) and so considering this, sydeney has gone down in suspicion for me a bit. what hes saying, though, what hes
DOING:
i cant ignore blowing in the wind and poking without explaining, etc.
B) haylens acted suspiciously but i think you have too (not counting the suspicion i had for auditor). what is LESS suspicious about sydeney? i understand the meta thing. but look at the moves hes made this game. and you think haylen is more vote worthy?
C) its suspicious to me that you should choose points like haylens not looking for who replaced who as somesort of illuminating action given the present circumstances. actually pretty damn suspicious. its like your grasping at straws yelling and screaming for the lynch. i understand that its nearing the end and you purportedly think you have a clean shot at haylen but trying to frame not looking at replacements as a sort of tell smells either desperate or blindly zealous. i mean you are being reeeaally aggressive, and focused on this one purpose, it seems. if you could connect the non-look to something else substantial i feel like you may have something worth some attention but as of right now its like youre trying to manufact the appearance of guilt where there is little, especially given how nikanor points out that it was last day in her other thread. you noticed what she was posting but NOT that it was last day?????

actually, this is so suspicious to me that im going to
FOS: raskol
and promise to review the last few pages tomorrow (friday) or sunday. perhaps a change in vote is coming from me, i have to review what you were saying about haylens supposedly fallacious move against you. maybe i agree or youve got something valid there. but if not then ill have to reassess the last couple pages entirely (which, for the record, isnt necessarily for or against you personally)

haylen

A) i feel what youre saying about the auditor-raeil connection but i think thats just one of the downsides to making all your posts poetry like that, hes just saying some of that to flesh it out and make the rhythms work.
B) Sods Law is that you will lose data when your computer goes down? :lol: wierd law....
C) i empathize with your computer problems but i really do feel like your lack of content has been suspicious. its not even that you were posting in other game(s). i cant put my finger on it but....maybe its just that in 11 or so pages the best case youve got so far ends at like page 5 and now basically reads like a conveniently defensive extension
D) still, though i dont think youre super suspicious. life happens and someone who is really aggressive is going after you and that player did just happen to replace into auditors spot (i think)
nikanor 261 wrote:Gasp. A person wants to spend more time posting in a thread in which the deadline is that day!
nice catch, sir
onion 249 wrote:A)Raskol picked the arguments he could win and passed on the ones he didn't think he could. now he's picking up speed against Haylen.
B)Haylen, it is unlikely that lurking is WIFOM because otherwise accepted practices like Lynch-All-Lurkers would not be so popular.
A) what arguments is he passing on?
B) while im not sure exactly what is being said here, it seems like youre (onion) committing the appeal to popularity fallacy. people do dumb things en mass all the time.
i agree with your feelings about haylens absence/big post
echo 254 wrote:you don't think Haylen forgetting who replaced who should be used against Haylen?
If so, I disagree. Bringing up the first post of the topic only takes one click from any page you're on - clicking the "1" or the topic title. Saying you don't know who replaced who so you don't extend your argument to the person who replaced sounds either like laziness, which can be anti-town, or trying to avoid plotholes in your argument, which is scummy
all due respect, i disagree with you here. i dont see how not going to check to see who has replaced who is particularly suspicious in this instance. raskols been going after haylen pretty hard. she fights back because raskol is being kind of unreasonable and very aggressive - they literally have a post war where its like every other post, haylen vs raskol for a couple pages....it just doesnt seem suspicious at all that she should forget who replaced who. i agree that it
can
amount to something but i dont see that here at all and i find it a little suspicious of you to go with raskols point here. i feel like raskols trying to manufact this point into something when it is truly nothing right now and youre going along with it for some reason

for the record

i dont trust the wiki at all.
i am a tad suspicious of anticollie for not expounding on his last ish, especially since it seems like the situation with the logic has gotten worse. its like....dropping in to note the danger of the situation and then letting it happen is like trying to position oneself as a steward of the town and then just going to get drunk under the tree with the hot gypsy women. if youre that ill, you better spit fire or go home with your head down, you know?
at the same time. the last few pages have been pretty painstaking to follow especially given the post rapidity so an absence is kind of understood. but if you disappear for too long its gonna start seeming too suspicious
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Post Post #269 (ISO) » Fri Jul 03, 2009 1:48 am

Post by Echo »

(268) ric wrote:raskols been going after haylen pretty hard. she fights back because raskol is being kind of unreasonable and very aggressive - they literally have a post war where its like every other post, haylen vs raskol for a couple pages....it just doesnt seem suspicious at all that she should forget who replaced who
Ok, so first of all, I've never played a game where a player has been replaced - that never happens in my rl games.

However,
in my opinion
, there's no point in
only
pointing out possible inconsistencies in the post of someone who has been replaced,
unless
you extend it to include the person who has done the replacing. Two different people would have two different playstyles, which may be completely different.

Regardless of alignment, what if the first person acts protown but the replacement acts scummy? Or vice versa, what if the first person acts scummy but the replacement acts protown? Does either player's play negate the other player's scumminess/townieness? Because of this, I feel it's necessary to examine both the first
and
the second player's play before making a decision.

Since Haylen has given advice to other players on how to play the game, which means she's pretty confident about her skill at this game, I completely expected Haylen to have at least looked to find out who the replacement is and extended her argument to cover the new player in her post. (Yes, I know she posted the advice
after
her post, but the point still stands, since a person's skill level (or perceived skill level) would be pretty much constant within such a time period.)

If I'm barking up the wrong tree, I would like an explanation as to why this sort of reasoning is incorrect.
_________________________________________________

Sideney, on the other hand, is acting so scummy, he can't be scum, right? But then he would have known we'd think that, so he must be scum. But we would know he'd think that, so... What's this called again?

Not to mention ignoring questions, lurking, openly pushing for lynches without any good reason, etc.

I totally intend to vote Sideney for his completely anti-town and destructive behaviour. But first, I want to hear from
Anticollie
and
Lynch
, who have both been pretty quiet, before putting sideney on L-1.

Oh, by the way, if you feel like answering questions, please answer mine. I'm truly curious as to why anyone would think post analysis is pointless in a game where that is all you can do to win.
(195) echo wrote:
(163) sideney wrote:I hope someone place that hammer-vote on onion, this will sure give us more information than any so called post analysis.
The only basis for any evidence in an online mafia game are the posts made by people, since there are no reactions/emotions/etc. that you also get from a RL game. Can you explain what you think is wrong with post analysis?
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Post Post #270 (ISO) » Fri Jul 03, 2009 1:51 am

Post by Echo »

When I say no reactions/emotions that you get from a real life game, I mean that any reactions or emotions that a player exhibits can be easily faked due to the delay in the response.
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Post Post #271 (ISO) » Fri Jul 03, 2009 2:56 am

Post by Raskol »

First of all, today is not going to go lynchless if I can help it. I have probed two other people and---I think at least---gotten a decent amount of information out of at least Haylen. So the wait wasn't useless as far as I'm concerned.

But I haven't been able to get anything out of anyone that makes them look scummier than onion has been. So he's still my lynch favorite.

Unvote


Vote: onion


Will post my "final d1 thoughts" on a few people, answers to questions, etc shortly.
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Post Post #272 (ISO) » Fri Jul 03, 2009 2:57 am

Post by Raskol »

EBWOP: I just noticed that we have until Monday now. Yay. That gives us more time and I can
Unvote
again for now .
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Post Post #273 (ISO) » Fri Jul 03, 2009 3:05 am

Post by Nikanor »

sideney wrote:If you want to kill lurker i think that Haylen is the best choice for day one, i give you plenty of post to make you think that i'm scum, surely i'm not lurking.
Yes, you are lurking. And lurkers die. Haylen is not the better choice, because she is not lurking. She is making analysis. You are posting one-liners. Do you see the difference between you two?
I'll make you a deal:
If you can make an analysis post with at least five hundred words in it (that's one page in Word) by Monday (the deadline), I'll love you forever, and might even remove my vote.
Otherwise, I will try to get you lynched every opportunity I have.
Your choice. Post or perish, to quote someone else.
I am in the bottom 10% of scumhunters onsite!
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Post Post #274 (ISO) » Fri Jul 03, 2009 3:18 am

Post by Raskol »

re: Sideney. I have no opinion on his scumminess now. I made a case against him but most of the points I made against him (reasonless bandwagon voting, not voting when he should, few posts, short posts without much content, dislike of analysis, lynch-pushing) are things that his meta shows he does even when town, so I'm not so sure now. His reaction to my attack also struck me as town. I am open to other considerations but you people are going to have to convince me on it.

re: Haylen. She was lurking and so I pushed her hard to get her out in the open where I could get a read on her. I don't apologize for that. I think the town is better off for it. That said, I do think the fact that she was L-1 in her other game counts in her favor for explaining her absence here during that time. If she can be as active in this game as she was in that one (once she's out of danger there, of course) then I think that will do a lot to ease my suspicions of her. If she continues to lurk...well. As for the rest: I think her arguments have been pretty bad, and I do think her vote on me is at least partly OMGUS, but all that fits with my read on her personality. I've been reading some of her other games, and I think the reaction I've gotten out of her here is exactly what I should expect from a townie Haylen.

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