Hopefully this time I will be able to get the names in the quote tags right and not confuse anyone
Echo wrote:
(178) raskol wrote:I mean he gives strong signs of being scum, but even if he is town, his play has hurt us quite a bit, and getting rid of such a person helps us out.
I've read about this sort of reasoning for a lynch but I can't say I agree. The vibe I get from this reasonining is along the lines of "Even if we end up lynching townie, it's OK because he sucked at being town anyway." Can someone please explain to me why this sort of reasoning is valid?
(178) raskol wrote:If anything, I think Sideney is even (slightly) more likely to be scum than Onion. The only reason I still prefer Onion to Sideney as a lynch target is because, on the chance that either of them is town, Onion would be a better mislynch than Sideney is.
If sideney is more likely to be scum, then why would onion be a better mislynch? You even have a much longer attack against sideney than onion back in (174). Can you explain your reasoning here?
I'll answer both questions in the same way: it has to do with being realistic and knowing that even our best D1 guess is very likely to hit town. So we have to be taking into account not only the chance they have of being scum, but also the amount that their play hurts town regardless of alignment (I think it's possible for players to play antitown even when/if they are town-it's just bad play).
So although obviously lynching scum is our main goal and the scumminess of the player is the main deciding factor, I think if you have two players that are pretty close to each other in scumminess, then lynching the one who is slightly less scummy can even be a better choice if their play is much more antitown. Now, of course, if you disagree with me that onion's play has been more antitown, then by all means convince me.
Which brings me to the next post.....
Nikanor wrote:I've decided not to read page five. It's just too long, and I feel I won't be missing out on a lot, since one post from me pointing out sideney's scumminess somehow managed to get two other people to look into his play so far and even vote for him.
I'll just be making simple posts, pointing out one or two things per post, since I am really not a fan of walls.
I understand if you're tired right now and aren't feeling up to it, but I really hope you'll reconsider and read it at
some
point. I am really uncomfortable with having people not even reading the thread. You know, since we have reached 8 pages on day one alone, that this thread is likely to end up quite "long". If you are not willing to read such a long thread, maybe you're in the wrong game?
Nikanor wrote:
Anyway, back to the topic:
@Raskol: I have something to add to Echo's analysis against you. In post 178, you said that Onion has hurt town more than Sideney has. How exactly is this the case? Onion has been posting often, usually with analsis. Sideney, on the other hand, has been doing some hardcore lurking, popping in now and then to make a scummy comment. How in the world do you think Onion has been more harmful to this town than sideney has?
It's simple. Lurking is in my opinion scummy, and indeed antitown, because it #1 allows mafia to hide and so avoid making mistakes and #2 it doesn't help add any info to the discussion.
However, making silly obvious mistakes, drawing attention to yourself as a bandwagon target, and using craplogic to defend yourself, is even more antitown. Just like lurking, it helps scum hide themselves, only even more so--because now everyone's attention is actively on someone else. Unlike lurking, it does add info to the discussion, but unfortunately much of it is misleading info.
You may or may not agree with the analogy, but this is kind of how I see it: which is better for scum and allows them to keep attention off themselves better: a townie who doesn't add anything but doesn't particularly stand out either, or a townie who takes attention off the scum by drawing it all to himself?