Newbie game 806: Game over (the scums win)

[iPeanut]

Sorry about the lateness! I very unexpectedly went V/LA for about five days. Glad I was able to make it in time, and I'll be reading up on what I missed.

[iPeanut]

What are your feelings on random voting?

I think it's fun. :3 Relatively laid-back atmosphere, and a good time to crack a few jokes. And it leads into the actual game, which is also quite fun. Like it or hate it, at least it conceives what we're all here for, right? =D

Plus, I can feel comfortable using smilies at this point. XD

Vote: iPeanut There can only be one SE!

D:

Oh yeah, I also have a question: which alignment does everyone prefer (town or scum)? I'm not going to hold against you whatever anyone says. I'm for town, since I'd get too nervous being scum.

Well, I've only had experience as town roles, so I really don't suppose I could say. In my first game, I was hoping to play as scum, but after really playing, I think that general analysis is also fun. I can keep my cool under pressure, as far as that's concerned, so I think I'd have fun as scum. :3

Vote:somerand0mguy

You just want a piece of John's mom!

Vote: somerand0mguy

!

...I saw her first.

[iPeanut]

Wait a second, you "saw her first"... and yet you're voting for somerand0mguy instead of yourself...

What... exactly... did you see?

We're not technically lynching here, we're sending them to the hallway. Let's just say I'm not into S&M and leave it at that.

Shhhhhhh!!!!
Oh wait,on second thought you can have her
Vote:IPeanut

Oh gawdz you're kidding. D: Nooooo!

Well, for no particular reason other than to be different, I vote:Sigma

You nonconformist. ):<

[iPeanut]

iPeanut?!? Long time, bro. I'm sorry about killing you last game, I'll try to be more civil this time around.

XDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

Oh, maaan. I lost my chair on that. XD That aside, good to see you, and welcome to the game. :3

Game's getting more serious, so I guess I'll be waving my smilies goodbye soon. )'=

Zachrulez beat me to the point he just made. However, it does strike me as odd that you seem to have missed the parts of that post that 1) pointed out Toledo supports RVS, and 2) answered the question that sigma posed to stir up discussion. It wasn't complete opposition to discussion, at least.

Since we seem to have killed RVS, I'm going to go ahead and

Unvote

.

[iPeanut]

As you said, they will always have that ability, but I think it would be better if we could force them to do this during meaningful conversation rather than using random jokes. That way, we can Scumhunt with solid possibly meaningful information, IMO.

Meh, if we all see the RVS as a giant joke precursor to discussion, the only part scum would have an advantage is in the first firing of serious discussion, right? But getting the jump on that first part's open to anyone. That still takes it back to their only advantage being that scum knows who's town.

[iPeanut]

1. I saw a move that I translated as scummy- ignoring another player's wishes.

This seems to contradict what you said earlier.

My bad for not acknowledging this.

The second quote seems to imply that you knew it wasn't completely ignored. Or am I reading this wrong?



I also think that somerand0mguy's slightly suspicious. It's odd that he only came in to withdraw his random vote, and neglected to comment on anything else going on in the thread. The lack of content in that is alarming, but then again we're just starting. Your thoughts on anything, somerand0mguy?

[iPeanut]

I see what you're saying, iP. Ignoring his wishes and ignoring his question are two different things, though. Toledo definitely acknowledged his question by answering it, but ignored his request {see p43-45 for implied vs direct request} to skip the RVS, IMO. That was the action I was saying translated to scummy in my book. What I didn't acknowledge earlier was that he didn't ignore the question, but the request. The 2 quotes are refering to 2 different things.

Aha, I see the distinction. Okay, that makes sense. Thanks for clearing that up, although I do still wonder why you chose not to acknowledge the question in the first place. Any particular reason?

Ipeanut, youre just mad because I showed you the truth about John's mom arent you? Anyways on a more serious note, I think that toledo was simply trying to get discussion started and that its not completely his fault if he "Ignored another players wishes" because honestly how else are we going to get this game started?

She was a dream before you happened. *sniff*

Was that last part directed at me...? o.o

@iPeanut: Your post 30 looks like buddying with Zachrulez and distancing from d3x. Why no vote on d3x there?

Before anything else, welcome to the game! =D

In that particular debate, I simply happen to disagree with d3x, while Zachrulez also happens to disagree. I was pointing out what I felt had been missed.

I don't like voting seriously in the early game unless serious pressure's needed on another player. It's not a worry of lynch, either, but I normally just feel that I shouldn't vote without enough evidence, especially if it's something trivial like that. The sort of thing I was suspicious of was quickly refuted, as would have been my vote; it's scummier to hop around on votes so carelessly.

[iPeanut]

There's a fair amount of lurking going on. While that might just be Newbs not knowing how to insert themselves into the game, it could also be Scum sitting back and waiting for the Town to lynch one of their own.

I've been a part of this, and I apologize. Peanut's well-being is dependent upon Advil for a while. XD 'scuze me if I sound kinda scatterbrained. But it's still no excuse for lurking, dammit! *shakes fist*

Can you really have it both ways? Can Toledo be your scummy top suspect, and at the same time actually a townie that you're using in a gambit to possibly out scum?

This stands out to me a bit, since it implies that one should stick to their suspicions as being correct. Mind you, yes, it's best to be as sure as possible when voting, but nobody but scum or the cop can know who's who for sure. Is it not better to keep one's mind open to all possibilities and play as such?

If you are proTown, why do you care if something doesn't help the Scum or not?

Wait, what? The object of the game is for your side to win, so both sides should care about what's getting to be known by the other. Regardless of alignment, who

wouldn't

care?

In this post of mine, I responded to at least 2 points that I've made before.

On that note, while the points on misrepresentation are important, I think they're a little flimsy.

Basically true. In general, though, you have to be careful with this line of argument. Scum could easily say that someone is misrepresenting their intentions when that is completely untrue, and according to this line of argument, anyone who attacks the scum for this has no leg to stand on.

Very, very good point. If someone makes a mistake, they could always go back and say, "Oh, no! THIS is what I meant, you doofi! *group smack on the head*" If there's absolutely no evidence in that person's play, or little evidence of it, then we've pretty much just got their word to go off of. In this game, that's not saying much.

The misrepresentation thing started out fine, but as far as that goes, we need to stick with what can definitively be pointed out as direct misrepresentation, which I've not seen or have missed entirely. Most of it's been bickering over how d3x sees Toledo as suspicious for going into RVS after sigma represented a distaste for it, and that seems to me like it should've been over a while ago. We got kinda stuck on that point.

Who are your top three scum suspects?

I know it's not my question, but why three?

[iPeanut]

I figured they'd be able to come up with 3 players who have done at least a minorly scummy thing or two. Is that too many suspects to ask for in a game with two scum -- would two be better?

Nonono, three's a fine number, but I just thought it might be a bit of a challenge at this point. But, y'know. Why not have them order scummiest to towniest or something? I was just wondering if you had a specific reason for three.

[iPeanut]

I guess the main reason for 3 instead of 8 (i.e. all) means that they don't have to go into who's the towniest and who's the second or third-towniest, etc. That doesn't really add much to the discussion, IMO. Which list would you prefer to see at this point in the game, top 3, or scummiest/towniest?

Well, just off the top of my head, I would've wound up asking only for the top suspect. Three's a lot more efficient, though, and will probably be given more thought than a full list, you're right. With that and d3x's two cents, I'd much rather see the top 3 suspects.

2. As Zach pointed out, d3x voted for Toledo with the claim that it could lure scum out to also lynch Toledo. If you genuinely suspect someone of being scum, why would their fellow scum lynch them on day 1?

I really, really don't like this argument. It puts way too much emphasis on the vote. It's best to keep in mind during every play that we could be wrong in our scumhunting, is it not? No matter how sure we are, the only ones that can know who's who are scum or a cop.

Well then do you want me to confuse everyone? Do you want me to randomly bandwagon? Do you want me to go crazy?

Why such opposition to getting involved with the game? Participation requires none of these. Not that I'm baggin' on your caution; I'm all for caution, but lurking doesn't fall under that. One less person giving input is one more person likely that scum will fly under the radar. HR's got it right in saying that you don't need to develop a style right off the bat, but input's very nice.

Until we have a scum flip, I think that looking for linkage to partners is worthless.

I'm going to disagree here. Linkage between players can be used in arguing a point before a lynch is carried out. If two people would make a likely scumteam, we could actually build a case outta that, right? I mean, granted, scummy play in general's always a good indicator, but if we could make a case stronger or weaker in light of the fact that there are always two scum, we should. As the town, we've got the least amount of information from the get-go. We need to make use of our resources.

[iPeanut]

Don't like that statement. It helps to make possible scum pairs before hand, to see who should be lynched, and who's lynching would reveal the most info.

Not sure if you caught it, but he responded to that same thing from me.

I hope that you realize getting a better read goes both way,townies try to figure out mafia and mafia try to find power roles,and dangerous townies. I already know i'm a townie so why can't I get a better read on everyone.Last time I checked an active mafia is more dangerous than a lurking mafia.

Thing is, the mafia needs less read than we do. They KNOW that they will be killing someone of the town every night; the town has no way of knowing for sure that the person they're lynching is scum. The town is the side that desperately needs information to survive the game. Scum can sit back, wait things out without looking suspicious, and wait until the town's lynched itself off.

tl;dr: Townies need a read while the scum don't.

Hi guys, replacing in.

Anything worth reading so far, or are you just random voting?

Welcome to the game. :3

And, yeah, this thread dropped RVS like a hot potato. Lots to read.

Does anyone else see a somerand0mguy + spiritMSTR/Rashilul/JamesBond scumteam?

somerand0mguy's been incredibly nervous about participation, and very dodgy when presented with direct confrontation. In 101, when he came back with an argument, we got redirection:

And how come I'm the one being suspicious of lack of content when he obviously is acting kind of scummy?

Then, Rashilul comes in to replace spiritMSTR, srg's second suspect. Hello, similarity!

From what I have read, d3x is acting pretty suspicious.
Somerand0mguy is also acting pretty suspicious.

Little actual content, and there's a sort of swap going on here. d3x is the primary target between them, with a little bit of distancing on the side (assuming, of course, that they are actually a team). Not to deny that there's a good amount of heat on d3x right now, but the exchanging suspicions on the side thing really strikes me as scummy.

Rashilul starts out with saying it's just a gut feeling, so there's no vote. Soon after, a vote comes from the weak argument of "bossiness." Rash also then neglected to completely respond to d3x in 128, giving no reason as to why being bossy would be a scumtell.

There's a bit of a distancing dynamic here that I'm not entirely fond of, but when not tunneling it like that (and, granted, it's a bit of a stretch), Rashilul seems incredibly suspicious without the idea of a team. More suspicious than srg, at least. somerand0mguy's now making conscious effort to add to the game. He just seems a little unsure and, as he stated, confused.

Hate to drop this on someone kind enough to replace the second he comes in ( D: ), but

HoS: JamesBond

due to aforementioned points against Rashilul. Refraining from voting due to faraway deadline, suspicions of somerand0mguy and not being very sure of the scumteam idea.

[iPeanut]

@d3x 134, 152: Troo dat. Wasn't even thinking about that. But the point still stands that, comparatively, the town's swinging blind while the scum know exactly what they're aiming for.

iP- Nothing really specific for you. If the deadline were tomorrow, who would you want lynched.

Well, even though I'm not quite willing to let the previous players' actions of Bond go just yet, somerand0mguy's filling in with a lot less content, and is incredibly dodgy. JamesBond is providing good information now, and has a strong voice in the game. Active and responsive, unlike his predecessors. If the deadline tomorrow, I'd be for sinkin' rand0m.

iPeanut: He hasnt really posted since i started playing. Seems to have been active but now havent posted for a few days. Those things happen, but i want him to comment on the current situation before i make up my mind.

Whoa, hang on. I cast an HoS at you back in 133. Did you miss it? I was wondering why there was no response to it.

For that matter, there's response on that from somerand0mguy, either. It's surprised me that I've gotten absolutely no reaction to that.

@everyone else,Go head and lynch me, you ask me to play then when I do input my advice you turn it around and try to lynch me for it. Im never coming back to this site,youre just retards

Whoa, dude, hang on there. We're not attacking you personally for this. Keep in mind that this is just a game, after all. We don't mean it against you or anything, we're all just playing here. Nobody's trying to pick on you. Getting emotional in this game is also a terrible strategy (speaking personally from the end of Day 1, newbie 782) since it's at best an empty argument.

If you don't like that we're on your case, examine why. It's not that you've spoken up; that in itself makes you much less a candidate for lynching. It's that you've been avoiding questions and providing little to no insight for your actions, which we continue to call for. Keeping information from the town, especially when the town has called for it, keeps the rest of us from being able to tell scum from town. Case in point if you're a pro-town role.

Of course, going by your words, you won't be reading this. :/

[iPeanut]

@ iPeanut: Well, yeah i saw that. But the case was against my predecessors, and as we all know, they sucked.
After that i have written quite a lot of my thoughts, and i havent seem you replied after that. Because of that i didnt think you had the whole picture about me yet, so i pretty much ignored the HoS. Sorry

No, it's correct that I didn't have the whole image on you. But your role's been passed along, and I'm still suspicious of it due to your predecessors for sucking. You, personally, have begun clearing that up (briefly mentioned in my last post). It just surprised me entirely that, y'know, there was absolutely no reaction there.

Hm, come to think about it, I guess there's not a whole lot to respond to, though. xP "The other guys sucked, I don't know why they did that! Don't hate me. D:"


A few things that are bugging me about the rand0m fiasco right now:
1. Some of us seem to think that he's town, but still want the lynch. Even as a placeholder, more town's still good for the game; victory's based on how many mafia there are vs. how many town. For those of you holding this opinion, please elaborate on why eliminating one of our own would be the best option right now.
2. The status on somerand0mguy's replacement. If he didn't request, do we just wait? A last-second replacement could be very messy. Makes me nervous. :/

[iPeanut]

Honestly, I think flaking out like that is a null tell, though obviously I don't have a wealth of experience to back that up with. I could see a newb-scum being really excited about being Mr. Secret Agent Guy and then flipping out when he doesn't do a good job of it.

Quoted for truth. Anyone can get frustrated with the game, regardless of their role. Seriously, who wants to get lynched? I'm with the null-tell side of this one.

This is how i think: Were probably in for a mislynch anyhow, D1 is pretty much always a mislynch. If we accept Somerandomguy as town, and we go for someone else, we have 2/8 shot of getting scum, i personally dont belive i can see anyone as scum more than another at this point. Then scum do NK, then we lynch him anyway in D2, then scum NK, then were at LYLO D3.

Well, dang, let's just throw in the towel here. ):

Mislynching's a bad thing, so if it can be avoided, that's pretty freakin' awesome. We should also stay open to the possibility, though, that the odds would only be 1/8. Personally, I could still see him flipping scum.

Thats the worst thing we could do. In my opinion we have two options that are good:

1) We lynch him now, getting rid of him and take the shot that he is scum, or just accept that he probably is town, but wont contribute.
2) We dont lynch him at all, and let him sit there.

Option one should boil down to two different paths: One under the guess that he's scum, and one under the guess that he's town. Same result, but in mafia, thought process counts.

Question time. Which would you choose between those? If, for whatever reason, rand0m's not our lynch target, who's next on your list?

After calling somerand0mguy's "exit" a null tell and a case is brought against JamesBond, he now decides that Rashilul's exit was a scum tell.

That's completely different from how I read it...

(for the sake of explaining this further, the following is not the actual quote)

Ladies and gentlemen, please put on your iP glasses for the thrilling new experience of

PEANUTVISION:

rand0m's exit was not as scummy as Rashilul's exit. Rashilul acted like he was doing something bad and got all flustered 'cause we caught him, but rand0m's exit seemed more like frustrated newb-town in comparison.

You may now remove your glasses.

[iPeanut]

Dammit. I hate doubleposting (holy crap, it took me that long to edit that!?). D:

@HR-
I don't buy it. rand0m was actually being rather active, as opposed to you. You had just been prodded while he was chatting more than he had all game {not well, but more actively}. Also, you said just now it was to get him to be more active, yes? So does that mean there's merit in Dizzle's question of you're concern over his "lurking"? Because you definitely did say it wasn't a concern ATM. Why didn't you answer Dizzle's question about it not being an issue?

I'm not reading that as a scumtell. rand0m wasn't adding any sort of content whatsoever, while HR was at least posting something (albeit intermittently). Though the contradiction does concern me, it's not raising any flags. Well, not yet, anyways.

At this point, I'm going to ask the town their thoughts on the HR case in it's entirity. I believe this needs more pressure.

I'm not entirely sure what to think about it; at first, I didn't see anything malicious in it - maybe he was just genuinely missing points here. Hell, maybe he still is. Difference in playstyle and whatnot. Some of these are becoming more and more stretched, though, so I'm not liking that.

HR's definitely getting an IGMEOY from me, but I'm still holding my suspicions against JamesBond. Pressing that rand0m vote a little too hard recently, and I wasn't fond of Rashilul's activity, as previously stated.

[iPeanut]

1. Treating bad logic as scummy. We all don't like bad logic. However, if a player is bad at logic, then no matter he is a mafia or a townie, he is bad at logic. I saw in some posts where people were voted because of others thought they missed/screwed up some logic. I think voting pattern/timing are some more accurate ways for scumhunting.

First, welcome to the game.

But, I don't agree with this one. While it's not necessarily scummy, bad logic could also be a way that scum leak in an argument against someone and hope that others hop onto. If it's done well, the town might not catch the bad logic. It's WIFOM to guess, but I'd hate to simply give someone the benefit of the doubt in this game.

Although there is a point in saying that's it's not necessarily the best argument out there.

It is not bad to sheep for a bit and follow d3x. When a guy has made valid points, it isn't bad to sheep a bit.

Good point, but:
1. Why do you agree with d3x's points, other than that they are good?
2. There's currently a discussion on the validity of his points and points made against him, so it's not a stable sheepin', either.

Prolly living quite far away from most of you guys so don't expect me to catch up with your timezones. English is my third language (Cantonese and Japanese are my native languages and mandarin is my forth if you wanna know ) so if i made some grammatical/spelling errors or not catching your slangs and stuff please correct/spare me !

d3x: I believe this is what we call irony. (referring to rand0m)

facebook: I can't speak for anyone else, but I specifically refrain from going grammar nazi on anyone in this forum. XD This game seems like it's filled with a good crowd. No worries. :3
And, daaaamn. Four languages. o_o

[iPeanut]

Alright. We have about 4 days left and I think leaving this to the last minute would be a severe mistake. We need to decide where our lynch is best served.

Agreed. Although, we also need to be especially careful not to jump the gun, either. (That's in general, not just d3x.) It'd suck to cut conversation shorter than needs be.

There hasn't been any particular surge of information here, so I'm not entirely confident in anyone for now; however, I'm okay with a Bond lynch at this point. I don't want to see HR go down just yet, since he's not really raising any alarms for me. As I've stated before, the only other one that raised any flags was rand0m, but as of right now I don't believe it merits a lynch. We'll see where the rest of our time goes, of course.

If a tiebreaker were needed, I'd drop my vote on the Bond side. I'm curious to see where the other non-voters would fall in.

[iPeanut]

1) I dont have any good ones at the moment. I have suspicions, but none that are good enough to get a lynch on.

So? Info's info; someone else might get something out of your case that you missed, or it could be helpful to the town later on (especially if you're actually a townie, get lynched, and can no longer give us these suspicions). Best to lay it out while the gettin's good. Just 'cause it won't lead to a lynch right now doesn't mean it can't be useful at all.

He's been participating in the discussion; however, neither a whole lot of naming suspects nor building cases. In fact iso 8 & 9 he talks about naming the top 2/3 suspects, but never does.

Unfortunately, this is because I don't have many cases to build. I'd like to see more from facebook, though, since I'm still not ready to let my suspicions of rand0m go. The further we go in, the less I'm seeing the aforementioned rand0m/rash scumteam. But, that was with different players. Replacements really do complicate the game quite a bit. Definitely interested in seeing how things develop.

Most of what I'm getting has already been made by the time I catch up in reading, so pretty much all I'm left with is "I agree!" :/ I'm hoping to catch something as the game goes along.

In fact iso 8 & 9 he talks about naming the top 2/3 suspects, but never does.

I specifically stated when addressing it that the question was not directed to me, since it wasn't. It was a questioning of why that number was chosen, and it really didn't go anywhere.

Why pick that out, given that it's blatantly stated in my post that there was no incentive for me to answer that question, nor did I have any intentions to do so?

Yes, I would probably vote for anyone else exept me right now that I feel have a shot at getting lynched, I do want to survive because it is good for the town since I know im not scum, and everyone else has a shot at being scum in my book right now, which means anyone else is better than me.

*John's mom joke goes here*

Well, much as it's nice to imagine you telling the truth here, it's mafia. Nobody else knows your alignment for sure. That same logic goes for the rest of the town, and to an extent it goes for scum, as well. You're not really building a good defense. If "I'm a townie, please don't lynch me; the other guy's more likely to be scum!" worked, then we'd be at a dead end at the beginning of every game.

Survival is not necessarily the top priority of the town; getting more information out is. However, for scum (who are at an incredible numerical disadvantage), survival is the top concern. Two shots and they're out. A lucky town, even, is a threat. They've got to last longer than we do, and have less chances at screwing up. Your last-ditch efforts to get someone else killed are not making a good impression on me, suffice it to say.

[iPeanut]

@iPeanut: I want to see your top 2 or 3 suspects list with at one reason; it doesn't even have to be great, just some kind of reason Why? Because it helps the town understand who you are watching. More information is good for the town . . . just as you pointed out early in your 219. As an SE, you already know this. Why are you withholding? You've basically tossed around some weak FoS type of statements but nothing of real substance.

I believe we've had a failure of communication here.

I asked why you picked out my discussion of the suspect list number; you read it as scummy because I had avoided the question, yet I stated that it was never directed at me in the post you referenced. Ergo, I've not been withholding because (until just now) it has not been asked of me. My stronger suspicions have already been stated, as well, but I'll go over them here and add a third, for good measure.

But, regardless, my top three suspects:

1. JamesBond's at my top spot. Rashilul really hit an alarm for me, and Bond's not built up a solid defense; moreover, the points on survival and trying to down someone else just for the sake of seeing it to day 2 are definitely not sitting well with me, as I've said.
2. facebook. Slight defense of Bond, and I did see distancing between rand0m and Rashilul for the short time they were playing together. As stated before, that could be a scumteam in my book. facebook's not coming across with any surprising amount of content thus far, and I've not forgotten the dodginess that rand0m had while playing that role. Wouldn't want facebook to hang yet, though, since we've received very little information from her thus far.
3. HR, though I'm really only very passively suspicious. Some huge point other than misrepresentation would need to pop up, but that's yet to happen. The misrepresentations seem to be so off the mark that it wouldn't be a valid strategy to try and twist words through because of how obvious it would be. Right now I'm more of the mind that HR's town, and I would much rather see a Bond lynch go through.

Speaking of the fire lit under our asses, I'll probably cast my vote sometime tomorrow. I'm not liking the HR lynch right now, especially not in comparison to Bond.

[iPeanut]

@iP- Maybe this is a discussion best had tomorrow, but why haven't you voted? I'm not talking about this end of Day push, I'm talking about the entire rest of the game {aside from RVS}. You've only placed a single HoS {no FoSes}, and haven't posted a ton this game.

I like to be cautious when voting. Every time I've thought, "Oh, this deserves a vote!" I hesitate so much that I just decide not to. Plus, most of the time before actual lynching becomes a possibility, someone else has already placed a pressure-vote. I don't want to unnecessarily rack that up in the event that our scumteam would be able to push through a hammer.

The posting slowness is a combination of two things: First thing is, I honestly don't have anything to add half the time when I check in. Bad timing, I guess. The second part is that I've not been checking in that often due to IRL stuff getting in the way, but that should be gone by next week. I think.

I'm convinced that we get the most information from a Bond lynch right now, as well as the fact that he's been topping my scum list for most of this day. The last few posts are WIFOM-y, and spin a few doubts my way, but his defenses have been less than impressive. I just can't let that go. I'm probably going to vote that way in the next three hours if no one objects to it (assuming, of course, that someone else even posts in the next three hours). We need to be very, very careful here; if anyone thinks we could draw out meaningful discussion, I don't want to end this day.

[iPeanut]

Well, Zach has a standing question open to the others Re: their voting/nonvoting choices. Aside from that, I'm ok with you hammering.

I was sort of assuming that everything would be resolved in that amount of time.

I won't be hammering if there's still open discussion going on, in case I didn't get that across in the last post.

[iPeanut]

If it is a quick lynch that you are worried about, I wouldn't. Quick lynches lead to finding scum. Hammers without explanation lead to finding scum. Vote analysis is a great tool; your lack of voting is a tell in my book.

No, not quicklynching, but I do worry about scum being able to ride on a misguided townie vote. Over time is the dangerous one, and it makes me very nervous about voting before I'm absolutely sure, which takes a good amount of time anyways.

This sounds as if you have some inkling of an idea concerning the wagon on him. Care to share now?

Not sure if I quite catch your drift here, but let's see if this works.
1. I find JamesBond to be the scummiest player at the moment; most of his recent points get to me emotionally, but not logically. I've gone over the case before, but if it's not good enough, I can go over it again.
2. JamesBond, upon anticipation of a lynch, has given his last bits of information. This is rather useless without knowing 100% what his alignment is.
3. Depending on that flip, we see who's voted for who, and since there were a couple of wagons going for a while, we get good information from that, as well.

Is that what you were looking for?

I find it curious that you didn't respond to the top of 239.

We're still getting meaningful discussion here, so I'm going to continue holding back on my vote.

[iPeanut]

Yes, you stated that the question of the list was not directed to you. You also discussed it. The list is meant to reveal information. Information = good for town. It was a piece of the "not really participating" point of mine.

That doesn't quite answer my question, though. I know that I discussed it, but it was never redirected towards me or anyone else. Why'd you pick out my lack of response to it, since it wasn't directed to me? That's the part that keeps going over my head. I get the rest of it. The rest of it's based on sound logic, but that one hole is the entire point of bringing it up with that context.

Alone, a good piece to pick out to defend. However, that is missing the brunt of the case.

I've covered the rest as best I can. If there's something you feel I've left out, please let me know before the day's over.

[iPeanut]

That deadline's awful close, here. Anything else that absolutely needs to be covered before we hit night one?

[iPeanut]

Aaargh triplepost. DX

Okay, we're thirty minutes from the deadline and there's been no response, so I guess I might as well go ahead. Really would've liked to see some input from the rest of you guys, but my hopes wane with each passing minute. Don't think anything meaningful will come up in the time before the deadline anymore, so...

Vote: JamesBond