Mini 790- Skywalker Mafia: Game Over

[Kreriov]

@Ortolan - Not sure if you were talking to me, but even if I wanted to I would not vote for Millar13 until Starbuck has posted her thoughts. Same with ZazieR. He should only be at L-2 anyway, so no worries just yet.

We have an advantage knowing, or at least believing, ZazieR can only cast hammer votes. If ZazieR comes out and says whether or not she will hammer Millar13, there is a chance of effectively making the L-2 vote a hammer vote.

[zwetschenwasser]

The Votecount of Rampant Deception

millar13(4)-azhrei, kise, sironigous, MafiaSSK
ortolan(1)-thAdmiral
Azhrei(1)-ortolan
Kise(1)-Starbuck
Starbuck(1)-millar13

With 12 alive, 7 to lynch!

[millar13]

A lack of real reasons on me, and a lot of clear band wagon jumpers. A mafia pushed one most definitely.

[ThAdmiral]

wtf happened to the ort wagon?

[Azhrei]

I am not being a douche, for me to win we need to lynch the mafia and unfortunately you are mafia so we have to lynch you. I'm sorry if that upsets you.

If you weren't the claimed doc, I'd still be voting you.

Der. You put a whole bunch of work into the mislynch and I am sorry to derail it for you.

You're strawmanning again.

You're using the word "strawmanning" again without explaining how I'm supposed to be strawmanning you and not even demonstrating you actually know what it means

Holy crap. Read my posts sometimes? Maybe? That'll help you.

Here, I'll even show you it.

ironic Azhrei accuses me of active lurking when that's pretty much the sole impression I get from reading his posts. That and baseless suspicion of MafiaSSK. I also notice he accuses Santos of active-lurking on page 10, it must be a catchphrase of his. He really should pay more attention. As of 254 he "still has no leads". 277 he has taken inspiration from me and wishes to leave the millers alone.

And you think I'm active lurking? Bugger. I didn't mean to. I am trying to just post my thoughts on the game, in the small amount of time I get to do so. (Which, for the next day or two, will reduce to none, due to starting my first job and schoolwork)

More obsession with active lurking.

334, 335, 344 all useless posts. I dare him to point to three of my posts of a similar nature and then reiterate his accusation of "active lurking".

389 and 390 both useless, that's five in a row now.

424 that's six

I admit, I have active lurked (however, it was more due to a lack of focus and time than any attempt to stay out of other people's focus, or to appear to be active). So have you. Admittedly not that badly, but you have nontheless. I'll quote them all. Oh, and Santos was too.

yer I can imagine

wow way to give me the one with homosexual connotations how about "ort" instead?

Hi ZaZzy

*waves*

Hi Zaz! Over here!!!

Hm, you asked for three. I think that's more than three?

For reference trying to get Zazier lynched was reaction fishing to see if any widdle scummies would jump on me for it. And you did. Thank you very much.

Really? Easy for scum to say that after making a case to see if they could get a townie lynch, methinks. And I believe I considered the option and decided against it?

Nice twisting of the words here. And A very good way to avoid his main point. This is called strawmanning. It is scummy.

Um yer mate. Actually it's not twisting his words at all when he says something to the effect of "ortolan has just been innocuously hanging around the game and not voicing suspicions", then blatantly contradicts the fact by listing all the people I've attacked. The first statement is made entirely invalid by what he then goes on to say. It had no basis. He probably saw it somewhere else and thought it was a cute line to use here to attack me and didn't pay attention to the fact that is 100% contradictory to what he then goes on to say. So tell me how exactly I am strawmanning him now? Squirm scum squirm. Strawman is a great phrase isn't it, but you need to pretend to use it correctly.

Strawman

Strawman is a great phrase, and you don't need to pretend when it's the truth. You selectively quoted Kreriov's post, attacking that which you felt you could disprove, and avoiding the rest of his argument. Hence, strawmanning. Here, let's look at his post and your reply:

I think I understand the point against Sting and Azhrai, but why Ortolan

@Sirgonious - some things he has said. This is a quote from when Ortolan initially expressed suspicion of you.

He's good at appearing relatively inoffensive and not doing too much and being generally friendly, not drawing attention to himself and largely commenting on irrelevancies.

This fits Ortolan himself very well.

Then when he votes Sting this is what he says

Sting and Zironigous and Sajin have all placed anti-town and opportunistic votes

But later on says this

placing anti-town and opportunistic votes does not guarantee scum

But continues to vote for Sting despite the fact we are waiting on a replacement for Sting.

Finally, he was trying to get a wagon started on ZazieR. It struck me the wrong way.

I did make a mental note to re-read Kreriov, his above post puts him about ~80% probability of being scum alone. The best part is when he says

He's good at appearing relatively inoffensive and not doing too much and being generally friendly, not drawing attention to himself and largely commenting on irrelevancies.

This fits Ortolan himself very well.

Then proceeds to list all the many players I've attacked

Finally, he was trying to get a wagon started on ZazieR. It struck me the wrong way.

What struck you the wrong way about it?

But continues to vote for Sting despite the fact we are waiting on a replacement for Sting.

Even though Sting supposedly is one of your suspects also. Also, if someone has been scummy they are a good lynch target independently of whether they are or are not getting replaced anyhow.

Note the missing bits? Yeah. Strawmanning, boy.

Also Azhrei is scummy for making zero references to Sushi Mafia which he played in and which I was scum in, which finished recently. He's clearly aware of how different this game is to my scum meta and thus doesn't want to mention it.

I decided to not use meta on you, as I only have a scum meta, and have not seen your town play yet. (Confirmably so, anywho. I might still be wrong ) And honestly, your playstyle in both games has been similar. You cycled through period of inactivity and activity, usually made good points, and appeared reasonably townie. You are much the same here. That is what prompted my suspicion of you.

Then, soon after, he puts his vote on sting, main reason being some small insignificant point about Miller tunnelling. (Who wasn't miller tunnelling at the point of the game you were mentioning, really?)

miller tunneling along with doing absolutely nothing else and posting little. Why is he spared from your prejudices against active lurkers exactly? Oh, because you are scum with him, riiiiiiight.

Becuase Miller tunneling != Active lurking.

In summary:

Ortolan's strawmanning

No. Or are you actually going to try to argue that point about me strawmanning now? Go ahead, give it your best shot, I'll enjoy it.

Having fun?

dodgy cases

Yes, against Zakeri, it was deliberate.

Easy to claim, huh?

the occasional active lurking

Um...unfortunately no. Please cite all these posts where I have "active lurked". I know it is an attractive and easy catchphrase to use as scum but you need to be more careful. And you might want to answer the fact that the majority of

your

posts seem to consist of your favourite catchphrase themselves.

Sorry, what was that?

(and other occasional typical lurking)

Again, you need to be careful when players like me will tear down your obviously conceited statements. Where is this "typical lurking" you refer to? How have I lurked more than the other players in this game? How is it even possible I could have lurked/active lurked more than thyself anyway, have you actually read your own posts???

You had a one week period of absolutely zilch, without a V/La, and had to be prodded. I call that lurking. And all of my long absences have been explained, have they not? And I acknoweledge the active lurking I have done. I am attempting to stop. Like this post and my last should prove.

I must say I like the case.

Yes it was rather good wasn't it?

I thought so.

Note how I link to the strawman page in the wiki? Yeahhh.

wtf happened to the ort wagon?

he clainmed doc, and nobody has counter-claimed.

Actually. This is a zwet game. Zaz, does your role pm state specifically that the doctor you know about is a

town

aligned doctor?

A lack of real reasons on me, and a lot of clear band wagon jumpers. A mafia pushed one most definitely.

Reasons that you haven't even refuted?

Also, on Ort again:

ITT Azhrei OMGUSes the only person he can

can we lynch Azhrei now please

yer um...Kreriov is obv-town, by PROCESS OF ELIMINATION if nothing else I have cornered the scum. I don't see any reason to prevent us attaining a perfect game by lynching millar

Azhrei Kreriov and Sting are the scum. Possibly Sajin also. You really should watch out for my OMGUS, it's deadly. I might make a case when I can be bothered, or not. Stay tuned.

Anyone else see the contradictions?

[Azhrei]

Oh, also, my internet is out atm, so my posting opprtunities are limited. I'll tell you when its back up.

[ortolan]

*Yawn*

Azhrei is still scum

ThAdmiral is still not reading the thread (replace out if you can't be bothered playing properly)

[Kise]

Read Santos in ISO, then read millar13 in ISO. Both have never said anything that benefits the town or finds scum in any way, shape or form... Unless you count making themselves obv-scum, then yeah. They benefited the town by helping us expose them.

[millar13]

Read Santos in ISO, then read millar13 in ISO. Both have never said anything that benefits the town or finds scum in any way, shape or form... Unless you count making themselves obv-scum, then yeah. They benefited the town by helping us expose them.

That is a meta of of a lurking town member; because majority of mafia players will never take such a weak approach. The fact that you think that makes us

"obv-scum"

just shows that you personally Kise are actually a very weak player

[Azhrei]

Millar, Ortolan, you guys do remember that the general objective is to either be or to appear to be townie, right?

[Azhrei]

Oh, and my internet appears to be working again... Stupid ISP. Grr

[ortolan]

Millar, Ortolan, you guys do remember that the general objective is to either be or to appear to be townie, right?

No your objective as town is to catch scum. If other townies are unable to read the fact that a townie is indeed town then they are bad scumhunters (does not apply to people who make clearly stupid gambits but does apply to people who are frequent policy lynches).

[Azhrei]

Catching scum, or trying to = being townie

[ortolan]

Millar, Ortolan, you guys do remember that the general objective is to either be or to appear to be townie, right?

Catching scum, or trying to = being townie

Playing gambits which make you look like scum temporarily in order to catch the real scum when you can self-confirm due to role = uber, uber townie and uber good at catching scum.

As for millar, I don't think he is good at catching scum in general, but I don't think he is scum this game. If I am correct this suggests I am a good player, but if he doesn't even hunt for scum then he is not.

[Kreriov]

@Azhrei - Listing posts in which Ortolan changes who he thinks is scum is not indicative of anything at all except maybe that he is trying to keep an open mind. As you say, with no counter-claim and ZazieR's statements, Doc Ortolan is about as town as you get without a confirmed sane cop investigation. (And to answer your question to ZazieR, she had already said she received no information about doc alignment, only sanity.) Persuading him will be tough, I think, but he is one person. He has not countered any of your arguments and neither, I feel has Millar13 responded well to them, so no need to antagonize. Convince me and convince the others not voting.

@Looker and Starbuck - It has been 2 days. Surely you have had a chance to form an opinion by now?

[MafiaSSK]

*Yawn*

Azhrei is still scum

ThAdmiral is still not reading the thread (replace out if you can't be bothered playing properly)

How so?

[Kise]

millar needs to get serious about pinpointing scum then because most of his dialogue is irrelevant in helping that matter.

[millar13]

The problem is, the reason for why I am scum. Isn't actually for seeming scummy. Just not being seen as pro-town, which often gets you lynched anyway.

[Sajin]

The problem is, the reason for why I am scum. Isn't actually for seeming scummy. Just not being seen as pro-town, which often gets you lynched anyway.

Then fix the problem? Who do you see as scum?

[millar13]

Azhrei. I already accused him/her/it and then voted

[MafiaSSK]

The problem is, the reason for why I am scum. Isn't actually for seeming scummy. Just not being seen as pro-town, which often gets you lynched anyway.

You. Scumhunt now. Post a LoS

[MafiaSSK]

Azhrei. I already accused him/her/it and then voted

And who else?

[Azhrei]

@ Millar: I have a gender tag for a reason. And you didn't suspect me, you OMGUSed me and voted for not putting a case out on you, which I then did, and now you appear to have ignored said case and called me scum?

@ Kreriov: I disagree that Ortolan's mind-changing means nothing. He seems like opportunistic scum trying to find a bandwagon that will go-go-go. And I've posted my case, I bring up new things when I see them (like how he

still

ignores most of what I say). What else do you want me to do to convince you lot. Same thing applies to Millar, ironically.

[millar13]

*Smells like Bull-Sh*t*

[Kreriov]

@Millar - Azhrei has a point. I think he could condense his case so it is easier to read as we can all go back and read the quotes and whatever as needed. But whatever, you do not seem to have addressed some of the points Azhrei has raised. If you could also try to make a single, coherent post with your case against Azhrei it would help.