Newbie 800 ~ Mafia: The Reality Show (Game Over!)

[Anticollie]

Hello everyone, my namae is Michael; and I'm your I.C!

If there are any questions, I encourage you to direct them at myself, or our "semi experienced" mates, ric, and sideney.

First, some things about my role as your IC: I shall play, first and formost, to be a benefactor to your MafiaScum.net experience. I wish to make better players before I wish I win. (This can be seen as contrary to the moderator's wishes). Skill is built well after a strong basis has been cemented: so let's start building!

A few drab bits about me:
- I'm highly quantative. I'll take notes and data feverishly. if you ever need to know something about "who said this and when." I'll have that available. 9That said, I do not expose notes until post-game, and even then, only if asked).
- I'm busy with work often. I'll alwanys make deadlines: but posting a response or a question and expecting feedback quickly can be boring. I'll get back to you (and the response fulfilling). But that can take as long as 24 hours, in some extreme cases).

I'll close this with a small reminder: you may always contact me (PM/e-mail/IM) concernings general Mafia play (if you cannot find it in our mafia Wiki- loacted at the top menu of this page). I cannot, however, answer any questions, or give any inclinations regarding this, or any game currently in progress.

Yours, and confirming my participation,

Anticollie.

PS: I don't spell check.

[Anticollie]

HELLO!

Wow, I'm back! Mr. computer took a McShit and everything went all dark (and I suffered some pretty major withdrawels).

But I'm back now. Sorry I was gone so long.

So, I see not a lot has happened- not surprising. My random vote, which isn't really a random vote, will go to the person who put one of our players at the end of the document at lynch -1.

Onion I think it's clear that you knew what you were getting into by putting siren and vote -1. Perhaps you are looking for a speedy lynch. Regardless, it wasn't a very town move.

Vote: onion

Fixed tag ~Vi

Signed,
anticollie

P. S: if I had to choose, it would be Mr. Freeze.

[Anticollie]

Thanks for the link, Raeil. I spent most of the day reading through that ^^;

It would have been really bad for town if I had been quick lynched

Back to this quote: are you suggesting something, Cyren? Sounds to me like you're hinting at a role :/

Are you trying to rolefishing? Bad bad bad....

Unvote

Weeeeell... maybe.

I mean, either this was an attempt to garner township respect... or a slip of a mundane tongue.

+ (town)
*Has to inflate a sense of self.$
*Any town death is "bad."

- (scum)
*Trying to develop in-game meta for role claim later.
*Trying to develop aura of power.

Together, this is a pretty null-tell. Though it never rings townie to portray oneself higher in hierarchy than those of your peers (especially when they hold a rope. Even if it's true).

A book to help one devleop the quintessential townie presence would be to read one of Greene's recent works, a modernization of machiavelli's "The Prince." His is entitled "The 48 Laws of Power."

[Anticollie]

PS: @ Sideney: I have an espresso machine named after your town in Italy. it works like a dream.

[Anticollie]

I have been watching this unfold- and I am growing neither impatient or pleased with my vote.

Onion started off as the biggest blip on my radar. He still is. he is thus, because he has done the most to actively subvert the town at this moment (that doesn't include murder of basic grammar) by putting a person @ L-1 without at least feigning a scum-vibe.

[Anticollie]

A Plea

I will make this request once: take it, or leave it:

Poetry does not make for a formidable meta in Mafia. it will confuse and infuriate your allies, and give even the most clever and professional player an aura of deception.

Tread carefully- or change boots.

---

Anticollie's Thought Pool

• Mr(s). Ric-
  Your lack of ascertion is
  peculiar
  . With a loose game like this one has turned out to be thus far, why would you
  back off your vote so readily?
  However, you are
  open and thoughtful
  with your opinions. Thank you.
  
  
• Cap-i-tan Sydeney-
  So you've figured it out! Just like that? Well, judging by your vote, you think that Onion is more of a threat to our populous than Ric.
  Yet, you have made more statmeents against his alleged partner.
  Votes need to go where the mouth goes. There is no "knock 'em down one by one" policy here, we need to find the most prominant threat to the town- and quelch them first.
  So tell me: where doth thy allegations lie?
  
  
  
• Mr. Auditor:
  I haven't read any of your meta, nor will I.
  See above.
  
  
  
• Haylen; Herself-
  Keep your
  WIFOM
  to yourself, please.

  I think it safe to presume that a Newbie town would hammer.

  If you're using stats,
  I want refrences
  .

  but there's about a 70% chance it could.

• Lordly Gent Raeli-
  Your posting pleases me. It is well set up, and wanted to thank you for that. Also, thanks for stepping up to answer questions- but let's get down to business, shall we?
  If deadline was in 2 days, who would you be voting for?
  if no one... why? (No one strikes me as scummy isn't a response).
  
  
• HRH Echo-
  Enjoy your exams.
  I will be keeping an excel doc specifically for you, in order to track your posting habits. it is only fair that I am upfront with this information.
  I have seen people use viable excuses to lurk more than necessary.
  This data will be revealed post-game if requested. (Also; before you go, a list of your thoughts and reactions would be appreciated).
  
  
• Madam Neferenom-
  I didn't get that vibe from Ric (defense of scum partner). Specfically what about his questioning process led you to
  think he had ulterior motives?
  
  
  
• Dame Cyren-
  I see a lot of leads going out from you. This is
  awesome
  . However, there needs to be
  more follow up.
  Don't accept an answer- just remember: no matter how legit they seem,
  at least two are liars.
  Therefore, assume they are liars.
  That said, your fleshing out of Onion's actions has sedimented my vote.
  Well done.

---

Anticollie's hot seat

Onion.

So, talk to me Onion. Stay with me- and don't change topics.

• Why do you think
  trading townie lives
  for scum lives is an acceptable practice? You are aware there are other, safer, practices.
• How can we assume that what you propose (trade) would prove sucessful? It may at times- but it is in no way a
  common enough occurance to warrant such an action.
  Do you feel the same way? why?
• Do you honestly think Ric is playing buddy buddy? Aside from
  sharing a vote
  ... which he voted for first, and
  you FOLLOWED HIM,
  I see
  no
  evidence.

---

I am unaware as to why the font changes from small to large in my "thought pool" column. Please overlook this small php hiccup, asuming it transfers over

[Anticollie]

I'll nip this in the ass now:

In regards to colour

I embolden/colour entire statements because I write a lot. I understand that we tend to gaze over walls of text. The employment of colour in text is nothing discordant- just something to keep the eyes fresh and aware of where I make points.

To see proof, simply compare myself with Auditor. He is clearly makeing a puzzle with his, whilst mine, when compiled, add only up to the points I have already been making.

Further suspicion

It has been requested that I display further suspicion of my fellow town-mates. To this end, I find Haylen picking up as number two on my list. I state this only in regard to her reactions to my last post.

Refusing the see the poison and danger of WIFOM is assuredly deserving of a second look.

I will be mostly unavailable tomorrow. Museam is closing its exhibit- and I want to get a look.

[Anticollie]

Anticollie's posts were well layered but to ask who you would vote for in a pressure situation to Raeli is very scummy to me. If the scum can follow vote lines then it is much easier for them to stealth-bandwagon and curtail opinion round to the wrong side.

retort

Sort of. Not really and kind of at the same time.

Yes, it is beneficial to Scum to understand wherefore suspcitions may lie- however to claim that it is only beneficial to them (which, notedly, you did not do) is incorrect.

Let me provide a list of items that entered my head before requesting such data:

• keeps player involved.
• keeps player contemplative.
• Ensures that all relevant data is out and in the open. This is necessary so that propler decisions may be made by fellow town members.
• The only data that sticks around is game-changing data. All else is lost to the great Metapool in the sky. Therefore, the request for data that is irrelevant from one player- assuming great schisms do not occur, is in the best of cases: helpful. But usually, a null tell and an attempt to keep people talking.

---

WIFOM

I have been asked to define and expound why WIFOM is a negative subject.

All right: where is the poison? The battle of wits has begun. It ends when you decide and we both drink, and find out who is right and who is dead."
"But it's so simple. All I have to do is divine from what I know of you. Are you the sort of man who would put the poison into his own goblet, or his enemy's?"

The quote above birthed the term and forced a psychological "game" of sorts to be played. In short: it

enforces recursive reasoning by making players decide which of two (or more, I suppose) solutions is the decision an opponant or supposed opponant shall make.

Mind tricks are looked upon as

naughty

in mafia- although they prove quite useful,

if sucessful.

Town members can employ deception to lure scum out of hiding, or to give false information that can then be picked apart to force a legitimate lynch.

Actual online mafia is a complex game that requires thoughtful prose

.

If mind games can be good, if one is not called out on it, why, then, is WIFOM looked upon so poorly?

This is due to a simple fact: WIFOM is not simply a psychological trick that one may employ:

it is a game altering tactic that derrives from the game's actual purpose.

Think back to

The princess Bride

. How long did it take to decide which poison the villain would drink?

It was not a simple decision.

Furthermore, the necessity to spend so many thought proccesses on one WIFOM question tends to

distract from the actual gameplay.

Therefore, it is a decent tool used by the Mafia to force schisms in agreement (as differential logic will lead to differential conclusions, and logic in WIFOM is based purely upon semantics). it is also a decent tool employed by mafia because they can, with greater sucess, hide facts that may be hiding in plain sight as players are busy elsewhere.

(I trust, and hope, now that this statement is in the open that I will not be the only person pointing out WIFOM)

Pardon the wall of text. I shall summarize here: WIFOM is bad, because it has had few sucess stories for the Town, is a deliberate (or at times a simple mistake) attempt to decieve in the open, and focuses on one specific fact, observation, or thought too long to be of any actual use to the town.

Anything that focuses an investigation can shatter the chances for success- and WIFOM is paramount to accomplishing such a Scummy goal.

---

Anticollie - hate of WIFOM qualifies as restricting the flow of information.

retort

After my previous explanation of WIFOM and its poisons, I find the following quote unnecessary of legnthy retort.

To put it pointedly, my desire to eliminate WIFOM in our game is anything but an attemot to stifle the flow of data in-game. Frankly, it does the precise opposite.

WIFOM confuses, corrupts, and distracts. none of these three things is desireable in an unfettered thinktank. Therefore, your opinions are understood- no one wants to see a townie asked by another to halt their speech (even if it may be deceptive). But not ALL speech is good speech (if we are discussing soley on merits of data. Now WIFOM can be a load of data... but it is recursive data... and makes the speaker look poorly, therefore).

---

Anticollie's "vote" was not. I was trying to get his attention because he was IC and he had already stated that "- I'm highly quantative. I'll take notes and data feverishly. if you ever need to know something about "who said this and when." I'll have that available. 9That said, I do not expose notes until post-game, and even then, only if asked"(6)

I was hoping that my next few posts would grab his attention and he would "analyze" and work out what i was trying to say. Sadly he had no interest in this.

response

Sorry. Coded messages are anything but helpful. One must be forthright in all that they do as a townsperson- or risk being labeled as decepetive. I shall not play into anyone's hand by holding them up for a meta such as "leaves messages in poetry."

if a message is too important not to leave out, than it should be stated publicly and clearly.

If a message isn't important enough to leave in plain text- it isn't worth saying.

mafia is a community game- unless you are a member of a third party (ie: mason, mafia, etc), then you have no excuse trying to convey data to only specific players- in fact, in a perfect world, such actions would have dire implications. However, MS.net respects almost all metas... and for that reason it simply reminds you that doing so is "against the spirit of the game."

@ Auditor

One final note; echos questions to you are pretty much dead-on my thoughts of your play style, as well. I know you like poetry and all that jazz, but you need to be careful- I will accept no response from you like "Oh you simply mis-read my post!"

In poetry the reader takes away what he can, as that is the purpose of poetry. While we may have no problem understanding you now, if one poem is poorly writ, or makes less-than-perfect sense: expect shit storms that you may have to wade through.

And wading through shit storms doesn't really make one look pro-town unless done with powerful finesse.

[Anticollie]

General Clairification in regards to various questions and statements.

HRH - her Royal Highness.

(nothing indictive, I was just bored and thought up stuff to say. Seemed too plain).

'Verse.' -

I think i'll just take an apathetic view point and leave you with this: "it'll probably fuck you over sooner or later."

"Difference of mindset"

- Such a term does not exist long in Mafia. Perspectives can be emperically proven sucessful, unsucessful, or theorhetical. There is no theory as to wheter or not playing one's cards close to the chest is a pro-town or anti-town move. People who keep all thoughts to themselves (note: I am not an advocate of complete revelation)

do not contribute to the thinktank that ultimately is the day portion of the game.

The town does not have 'Great thinkers" and 'great interpreters." it has "The town." We must therefore make the assumption that by laying out relevant data to our co-hoarts we do the most good for the most amount of people. By playing a closed game of "go fish," we risk tripping up ourselves and/or not coming to the right conclusion because of this. The disadvantage to the mafia that the town gains from such an action is nullified by this fact. if you do not feel this to be true, fine, but reasoning disagrees. I shall elaborate in another, optional, section below.

Lots of leads -

Let me clairify. By "lots of leads," I meant I'm seeing many attempts to invoke conversation and speculation. More of a passive compliment than anything actually relevant. This was mis-worded, and I do apologise. However, against my performance, I think we cannot really compare this.

... And just to close, even if what you interpreted my phrasing to be was correct... how exactly would that be scummy? I cannot for the life of me form a kosher reason. (Though it could be the 3 hours of sleep).

Response

I have been asked to clairify my opnion of [Sideney]. I have... little to say, because he is a man of few words. If I had one qualm it would be that

lack of originality

in his posts.

I can take short-breathed statements... sometimes they are the most far-reaching. However,

lets see more theorycraft and less vote hopping.

As it stands now,

Sideney has changed his vote 33% of the time.

This is due primarily to his staunch lack of posting, but the stands is still alive: with so little activity, his reasoning needs to be better presented.

optional

let us elaborate upon why selective truth or "Not showing one's full hand" is a powerful enemy to the town.

The first, is thus: by performing a selective truth, one forces themselves into a seat of power. Infact selective truth is one of the 48 laws of power. By keeping your hand to yourself, you force others to come to you when they desire your reasoning. However, as we have already established, reasoning should be outright and clear: because the lack of reasoning is no better than shady reasoning. No one member would accept a vote witohut perper reasoning, and therfore we shall state our reasons in a truthful manner, and in a way that tohers may decide if our reasoning is sound.

To digress further, one may ask 'So then, why is selective truth a negative tihng? Surely the ability to nullify incompetant facts from our speech is a useful tool to allow our fellow town to home in on the serious, astute, and actionable issue at hand.' This is correct, and the reason why there is a difference between selective truth, and precision. There is a time and a place for all facts, and that place isn't in a single post. Ideas should be scattered and fed to one's fellow town in tid-bits. Not to trail, or lead them- but to ensure that digestion of information is ultimately thorough.

To answer the questin then, selective truth, or "not saying everything," is not only an act of derision (something that shall never be labeled as "pro-town, as it does not set one's side up for the best possible sucess- as you yourself may be asked to leave the game for some myriad of reasons, including a lynch, and if not all of your options and thoughts have been expunged, the town is not at its best possible odds to win.

As data flow increases, as does the town's ability to understand, see patterns in play. There is a limit however, and data-overload may occur: but this bring up precision and the ability to cull data over a period of time.

[Anticollie]

EBWODP: I also found the "Wall of text against walls of text" thoroughly entertaining.

I hope it doesn't come as a surprise tht I did not read the whole text.

[Anticollie]

it may be suspicious that i sometimes live in grey area but that doesnt a sicilian make. i have to tell people what i see, even if it amounts to somewhat of a contradiction, and if im right it feels good as a validation of my instincts. at the same time i dont want to be JUST defending onion

I have seem many players like yourself attempt to poorly communicate this feeling. What you have done here is enthralling- and I don't know why.

PS: EBWODP: Edited By Way of Double Posting.

[Anticollie]

in 053 i neglected the possibility that a a pro-town could somehow know Cyren was scum and hammer him. it is such an unlikely possibility that i didn't think of it at the time. none the less, it is possible and so was added to the theory later as stated above.

This is bat-shit insane.

You're making the arguement that is it plausable for someone with pro-town interests to sucessfully build a case for a lynch, and then cast that lynch in 53 posts?

With all due respect, I disagree.

[Anticollie]

For what it's worth, i choose to be analytical for my play-style because it is always possible to tell truth from deception with the proper amount of work.

Generally, I refuse to lie. I generally do not expect this level of honesty from anyone else, but when shit hits the wall (and it -will- hit the wall) it helps to have facts to back you up. Townies can become confused- and it's nice to be able to kill an improper wagon before it starts and you have more shit to wade through.

---

Also I've stated this elsewhere in this thread, people will play in styles you don't like. You have to deal with it.

Also could you cut back a llittle on the foul language please?

I sense inconsistancy.

---

Sideney- I'd like to see more posting. I isolated your posts and actually found myself in contention with your options, for the most part. However, we need to see if the scummiest person, Onion, is truly the best option for a lynch- and to see how he turns based upon that data, first. It is unacceptable in my opinion that a townie says "Well, i know who I'm voting for. See you in a few days!" I understand that earth-shattering reasons aside, Onion is probably our choice, but scum slips are anything than uncommon in newbies- and so i encourage you to keep your reasoning fresh and activity high.

Ric- I'm null at the moment. He's done scummy things, he's done townie things... what with the death of the king of pop, I'm a bit devoid of emotion and energy and so will post more tomorrow or the next day regarding this player.

Cyren- Altogether, I am pleased with your playing. Not much needs to be said, thanks for being clever and outspoken. Your stregnths seem to be in posting small tidbits, and so I would reccommend to flesh out your statements further, and keep a wry eye on the responses.

[Anticollie]

Anticollie posts without much game content, while Sideney barely posts at all. here he agrees with everyone, states non controversial reasons for his vote and tries to not stand out at all.

I call bullshit.

[Anticollie]

(trying to set up a D-2 lynch, are we?)

Found within your last post, this is a logical fallacy. The following situations may occur, as we have, at most (and least), 2 mafia members in this game setup.

• Onion is lynched and turns up scum. Therefore this D2 lynch is a reasonable arguement.
  
  
• Onion is lynched and turns up town. Thus making this pairing null and void; casts vigilant eye on the prosecution.

Under no real situation would this "setting up a D2 lynch" be... harmful to the town, unless we decide to kill someone based upon a town reveal- which is deliciously dumb. At the MOST, declaring pre-eminant scum-pairings reveals more about the speculators and those involved- and the way the convicted react.

---

I'm watching the new wagon on Sideney unravel- and I'm not 100% on board. You seem to have stronger convictions of Onion's feesability as Scum- and are moreso angry and displeased with your current vote's lackadaisical playstyle. That's... fine... but the FOS and vote seem tob e switched.

Not that I advocate voting for Onion yet- you would hammer and we cannot have that.

[Anticollie]

Onion is lynched and turns up scum. Therefore this D2 lynch is a reasonable arguement.

Just skimming through, and this stood out. Why are you discounting the possibility that Onion is being bussed?

This actually escaped my mind. It is possible, but do we really think that he's been bussed? That's quite a stretch in my opinion

[Anticollie]

Onion is lynched and turns up scum. Therefore this D2 lynch is a reasonable arguement.

Just skimming through, and this stood out. Why are you discounting the possibility that Onion is being bussed?

This actually escaped my mind. It is possible, but do we really think that he's been bussed? That's quite a stretch in my opinion

correction

After re-reading the event where Sideney becomes certain that It's an Onion/Ric pairing I must say that I am a fool to discount it.

---

something I lol'd at

You are flying high with your imagination. Or maybe you are the one that is distancing from onion, even if that is a remote possibility because you aren't on scum-radar of anyone before this post.

[Upon re-read]This made me laugh. "Oh, I'm the DIAMOND THIEF? Well, did you ever think that MAYBE YOU'RE THE DIAMOND THIEF!?"

[Anticollie]

The road we've begun to tread down worries me.

While there hasn't been one cut & dry logical fallacy yet, the opportunity to present itself is burgeoning ever closer.

We must watch carefully.