Mini 790- Skywalker Mafia: Game Over

[ortolan]

When I say lynch me, I mean it. I will take greater personal satisfaction in being entirely right about the scum. I wouldn't want to facilitate a victory for a town which doesn't deserve it, having boasting rights and "I told you so" rights is more than enough for me.

[Kreriov]

@Ortolan - You did not answer my question. Would it not be even better to win AND be able to say I told you so? Mind you, I think this is a ploy. I have questioned you and definitely suspect you, but other than saying you are currently one of my top 3, I have not said I want to lynch you in particular. So please, answer my question instead of playing the poor me card.

[Azhrei]

Ortolan, avoiding a case doesn't make it go away. Being a shithead doesn't make it any better for the town.

Remember Sushi Mafia?

[ThAdmiral]

Ortolan, avoiding a case doesn't make it go away. Being a shithead doesn't make it any better for the town.

Lol, and seconded.

[millar13]

Ok, reread, and back properly. Time for reread post:

List of general opinion:

Guybrush Threepwood

N/A, waiting on replacement -sigh-

Kreriov

Townie. Very reasonable, good logic, etc. Interesting exchange with Orto in the last page.

Lab Mafia

N/A, waiting on replacement -sigh-

MafiaSSK

I think I believe the claim, so townie.

ortolan

Scummy - case coming later

Sajin

Nuthin. Really, I don't have anything.

Santos

millar13

Scummy, both the original and the replacement. Case also coming later.

Sironigous

Leaning towards townie, he hasn't done anything I perceive as scummy.

Sting

I don't see the case on him, really. Null read.

ThAdmiral

Also believin' the claim.

ZazieR

Very townie. Posts lots, has content even with PR, and so on.

---

Ortolan

Case time:

I wouldn't mind lynching Zaz at this point to be perfectly honest. I wouldn't put it past zwet to have made her scum (especially with an in-thread confirmed post restriction). I didn't like her calling up ThAd on a point of detail (him saying he changed flavour so that a mass-claim could break the game then her calling him out on this because zwet didn't explicitly say it was to avoid people breaking the game). I also don't like her insistence that we lynch one of the millers and if they flip town, lynch the next. That sounds like a horrid plan.

Unvote
Vote: ZazieR

perhaps millar could comply with the request of him also.

This really is a terrible case. It's more or less based on "I wouldn't put it past Zwet to..."

Then, soon after, he puts his vote on sting, main reason being some small insignificant point about Miller tunnelling. (Who wasn't miller tunnelling at the point of the game you were mentioning, really?)

See e.g. 101

Then 146, 148, 150 though.

217 is a bit of a backtrack. If he's scum I like his referring back to 178 at the end. That means better scum than I'd expect for someone with a recent join date

232 got his eye on all the millers

238 asks for no mod-kill.

Yer um if Sironigous is scum he's good at it. He's good at appearing relatively inoffensive and not doing too much and being generally friendly, not drawing attention to himself and largely commenting on irrelevancies.

Sting is just scummy.

Reasonable defence of Sir - I even agree with it, ironically. However, then ending line just doesn't work. Why is he so scummy?

Then, Kreriov makes a point I don't need to paraphrase:

I think I understand the point against Sting and Azhrai, but why Ortolan

@Sirgonious - some things he has said. This is a quote from when Ortolan initially expressed suspicion of you.

He's good at appearing relatively inoffensive and not doing too much and being generally friendly, not drawing attention to himself and largely commenting on irrelevancies.

This fits Ortolan himself very well.

Then when he votes Sting this is what he says

Sting and Zironigous and Sajin have all placed anti-town and opportunistic votes

But later on says this

placing anti-town and opportunistic votes does not guarantee scum

But continues to vote for Sting despite the fact we are waiting on a replacement for Sting.

Finally, he was trying to get a wagon started on ZazieR. It struck me the wrong way.

Now, this is a valid point, Orto does indeed contradict himself. And I hadn't noticed that Sting was being replaced, so another good point.

Then Orto's defense:

I did make a mental note to re-read Kreriov, his above post puts him about ~80% probability of being scum alone. The best part is when he says

He's good at appearing relatively inoffensive and not doing too much and being generally friendly, not drawing attention to himself and largely commenting on irrelevancies.

This fits Ortolan himself very well.

Then proceeds to list all the many players I've attacked

Nice twisting of the words here. And A very good way to avoid his main point. This is called strawmanning. It is scummy.

Finally, he was trying to get a wagon started on ZazieR. It struck me the wrong way.

What struck you the wrong way about it?

But continues to vote for Sting despite the fact we are waiting on a replacement for Sting.

Even though Sting supposedly is one of your suspects also. Also, if someone has been scummy they are a good lynch target independently of whether they are or are not getting replaced anyhow.

I just don't agree with the last bit, but it is understandable.


Ortolan's strawmanning, dodgy cases, the occasional active lurking (and other occasional typical lurking), make me suspicious of him.

Vote: Ortolan

Cbf making Millar/Santos case also, I think that ones kinda obvious though.

I would love to see why is it it SO OBVIOUS I am scum!

[Sajin]

Well, this day has gone on forever....this sucks. We really need replacements. Not getting any information from 3 people is very damaging.

I have already expressed options against ortolan. Add to the case that he did not really address my point about the millars. He says voting the millars is bad and yet calls one scum as soon as he voted for him. He has called....6 people scummy today I think in total? That is the definition of leaving your options open.

vote; Ortolan

[ortolan]

Much as I can barely be bothered assisting this town, I am the doc/vig ZazieR knows about

Any counter-claims?

Now can we lynch the scum please

Vote: Azhrei

[ortolan]

If Sajin is town he is very, very bad but he's probably not. I don't even know what he thinks he's talking about I'm sure I already addressed it.

[ortolan]

Ortolan, avoiding a case doesn't make it go away. Being a shithead doesn't make it any better for the town.

Remember Sushi Mafia?

What is the relevance of Sushi Mafia to this statement by the way?

[ortolan]

and btw not bothering to answer a case is perfectly legitimate when:

1) you know if the person putting it forward is town they're totally barking up the wrong tree

2) if they're scum you don't want to indulge them anyway because that just puts you on the defensive (more likely)

3) you can just independent role verification anyway and avoid wasting your time responding to a bad and incorrect case

[Kreriov]

@Ortolan - Well, I am glad I am not voting for you Ortolan. I hate having to put those damn bold tags on my unvotes. I do have a question and it is most certainly not intended to try and make you look any more guilty or innocent as until I see a counter claim, and possibly even then, you are on my townie list.

Could you expand a bit on the vig part of your doc/vig claim? ZazieR said nothing about that vig thing.

[Azhrei]

Ortolan, avoiding a case doesn't make it go away. Being a shithead doesn't make it any better for the town.

Remember Sushi Mafia?

What is the relevance of Sushi Mafia to this statement by the way?

Flameaxe. And all the other shitheads who lost the game for the town.

-Waits for counterclaim-

[Kreriov]

Could be a long wait. Generally I believe a doc claim on D1 simply because it is so advantageous to the town for a real doc to counter claim immediately. Yet another reason for us to be patient and wait for the replacements. Once they have all checked in and if there is no counter-claim, Ortolan is gold. It just sucks waiting

@zwet

- perhaps indicating things are heating up and the game will move quickly once full will help in recruiting

[ortolan]

oh I don't think I need to explain what my role does, you'll find out when I target you for a nice "protect" tonight

[Kreriov]

@Ortolan - Please do! Did you forget the part where I am immune to the doc? I have already stated that if the doc is compulsive (must target someone) he can target me safely. Don't just hint you are going to target me, PROMISE you will target me.

[ortolan]

Why are you seeking information about town power role functionality and trying to tie the role up so it is useless also?

[Kreriov]

@Ortolan - Huh? Did you even try to follow the thread and the conversations with ZazieR? She said that there is an insane doctor in the game. As a result of that conversation I thought there were two things that were revealed and discussed. First, I revealed that the doc (looks like you) could safely target me and he would not kill me. You will also not protect me from a night kill, but whatever. We discussed and were undecided on whether or not the doc knew he was insane without ZazieR revealing it. You say you are the doc/vig. Given that previous conversation, does it not follow that I would be curious as to why you said doc/vig and not just doc? Maybe a better question would be, did you know you were an insane doc before ZazieR revealed it?

I am not sure how I am trying to tie up a power role, but I do think it is pretty sweet how I turned your threat to target me back on you and showed how you completely forgot or dismissed a significant development from earlier in the game. You will target me or not as you decide no matter what you or I say, of course. Personally, its a win win situation for me and I think the town. If you target me, you won't mistakenly kill some other townie. Also, if you do target me and we both live through the night, you will be 50% certain I was telling the truth and 100% certain that I was willing to risk you targeting me.

[ortolan]

I am not further discussing my role functionality

I had forgotten your claim to be immune to the doctor, thankyou for reminding me of it

[Kreriov]

@Ortolan - That's fine. Do you consider attempting to verify ZazieR's claim of knowing the doc is insane discussing role functionality? It makes sense that you would not know you were insane.

[zwetschenwasser]

Starbuck has agreed to replace Guybrush Threepwood! YAY! We only need 2 more now!

[ortolan]

ZazieR told me nothing about my role I didn't already know

I believe she is town

[Kreriov]

Yes, I do to. Thank you.

[zwetschenwasser]

Must...find....Guybrush's role PM...

[zwetschenwasser]

Looker replaces Lab Mafia! Welcome him!

1 More person people!

[millar13]

Azhrei! Where is this GREAT CASE againgst me?
The fact that you claimed to have won, and seemed to have lost interest or forgotten about it just show you had nothing but "target" on your mind which is just scummy due to not following up on it at all.

Vote: Azhrei