Newbie 769 - Game Over

[Hero764]

Well, thanks for giving me the opportunity to prove that I'm not scum kiku. That probably was a bit of a risky move though. I'm not scum and I don't plan on hammering anyone yet.

And damn, this is really tough. I want to believe kiku is scum, but she's just be pro-town way too much. Feeres' reasons aren't bad(I still need to finish reading through the thread), but I just can't be sure.

Kiku:

How is a jump in activity scummy?
What do you have to say about your apparent lack of interaction w/ hockey?

Feeres:

Do you have any reasons for me to believe you are pro-town?

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

2 Days to Deadline

Vote Count

Feeres - 1 (kikuchiyo)

Not Voting - 2 (Feeres, Hero764)

2 to Lynch.

Deadline

is the end of Sunday, June 14 (Eastern, GMT - 4).

[kikuchiyo]

Well, thanks for giving me the opportunity to prove that I'm not scum kiku. That probably was a bit of a risky move though. I'm not scum and I don't plan on hammering anyone yet.

Good, then I'm right.

Kiku:

How is a jump in activity scummy?
What do you have to say about your apparent lack of interaction w/ hockey?

Looking back, I don't see it as a really indicative tell here, but anytime a players activity spikes(especially in a pressure or lylo type situation) doesn't it make sense to conclude that their is some reason behind it? i.e. I find it odd that Feeres seems to have turned it up a notch at this point. He is posting alot of words and analysis but not including quotes or hard evidence.

How would you explain the D1 then where Hockey attacked me as his first real stance? It would seem bit weird IMO as a scum to do something like that on D1.

^^ This, according to the Mafiawiki, is a classic scumtell. Scum distancing themselves early on day 1 is actually quite common. Not to acknowledge that is bad enough, but then to instead use it as "proof" that he is not scum is audacious(imo).

Regarding my "apparent" lack of interaction with Hockey I can only say to go back and read the thread. I was more concerned with other players and found Tenchi's hammer much more disturbing than Hockey's L-1. When push came to shove yesterday, I looked at Hockey objectively, even though I was leaning "dumb townie" on him for most of the game. His contributions were a bit lackluster and there wasn't much else for me to "react" to.

Being doc, I have tried to lay as low as possible and purposely avoided being drawn into arguments. I am surprised I wasn't nk'd for it, but I think I may have come off as a bit of a "harmless newb". It seems Feeres' analysis has been trying to feel both of us out as to who he could convince to vote who. His one-sided thinking seems bent on drawing us into a mislynch. The fact you aren't hammering tells me I'm right, which also confirms my day 1 suspicions. But that is neither here nor there if we don't pull this out.

[Hero764]

Looking back, I don't see it as a really indicative tell here, but anytime a players activity spikes(especially in a pressure or lylo type situation) doesn't it make sense to conclude that their is some reason behind it? i.e. I find it odd that Feeres seems to have turned it up a notch at this point. He is posting alot of words and analysis but not including quotes or hard evidence.

Well he's been promising an analysis forever now, so I don't think its odd that he finally went through with it. Looks like you're grasping at straws here, which is the opposite of what we need today.

^^ This, according to the Mafiawiki, is a classic scumtell. Scum distancing themselves early on day 1 is actually quite common. Not to acknowledge that is bad enough, but then to instead use it as "proof" that he is not scum is audacious(imo).

Fair enough. Waiting to see what Feeres says.

Regarding my "apparent" lack of interaction with Hockey I can only say to go back and read the thread. I was more concerned with other players and found Tenchi's hammer much more disturbing than Hockey's L-1. When push came to shove yesterday, I looked at Hockey objectively, even though I was leaning "dumb townie" on him for most of the game. His contributions were a bit lackluster and there wasn't much else for me to "react" to.

You were more concerned with every other player(maybe a few exceptions, such as Artem, but he doesn't really count) except the one everyone else had generally come to a consensus on who was scummiest?

Being doc, I have tried to lay as low as possible and purposely avoided being drawn into arguments. I am surprised I wasn't nk'd for it, but I think I may have come off as a bit of a "harmless newb". It seems Feeres' analysis has been trying to feel both of us out as to who he could convince to vote who. His one-sided thinking seems bent on drawing us into a mislynch. The fact you aren't hammering tells me I'm right, which also confirms my day 1 suspicions. But that is neither here nor there if we don't pull this out.

Harmless newb? I for one hardly got that feeling from you tbh. You seemed like you were one of the more experienced ones in this game.

Also, could you explain how laying low leads to people getting NK'd? Seems kinda odd that you feel the need to reason why you're still alive. Actually, there is something interesting I've noticed. Nights one and two the most pro-town players were NK'd, and then on day 3 Tenchi was killed. Like wtf? Out of me, you, and Feeres, I reasoned that you were the most pro-town of us all, and it would be logical for scum(Feeres according to you) to kill you. Then Tenchi was killed, and immediately you used his kill to reason why I could be scum. Since we now know I'm not scum, this makes it look like you killed Tenchi just for that reason.

And lastly, you had said previously that Feeres was obvtown(which I challenged you for, if you recall). And so your only reasoning against him is that analysis he made, and his "jump in activity". Seems like OMGUS.

So, with all of this I'm gonna go

FoS: kikuchiyo

I'm inclined to vote for you, but I need to see how Feeres responds first.

[kikuchiyo]

Looking back, I don't see it as a really indicative tell here, but anytime a players activity spikes(especially in a pressure or lylo type situation) doesn't it make sense to conclude that their is some reason behind it? i.e. I find it odd that Feeres seems to have turned it up a notch at this point. He is posting alot of words and analysis but not including quotes or hard evidence.

Well he's been promising an analysis forever now, so I don't think its odd that he finally went through with it. Looks like you're grasping at straws here, which is the opposite of what we need today.

it would be "grasping at straws if I didn't just admit that it is not an indicative scum-tell.

You were more concerned with every other player(maybe a few exceptions, such as Artem, but he doesn't really count) except the one everyone else had generally come to a consensus on who was scummiest?

Please provide evidence of this general consensus. I helped to lynch Hockey when I saw what I felt was scummy. i.e. his L-1 was not enough for me to condemn him. When I coupled it with his slip and his poor reaction to pressure I voted for him.

Harmless newb? I for one hardly got that feeling from you tbh. You seemed like you were one of the more experienced ones in this game.

Why, thank you.

Also, could you explain how laying low leads to people getting NK'd? Seems kinda odd that you feel the need to reason why you're still alive. Actually, there is something interesting I've noticed. Nights one and two the most pro-town players were NK'd, and then on day 3 Tenchi was killed. Like wtf? Out of me, you, and Feeres, I reasoned that you were the most pro-town of us all, and it would be logical for scum(Feeres according to you) to kill you. Then Tenchi was killed, and immediately you used his kill to reason why I could be scum. Since we now know I'm not scum, this makes it look like you killed Tenchi just for that reason.

That is one possibility from your pov, yes. Don't scum gun for power roles if possible? Aren't docs and cops generally doing their best not to get lynched? You are starting to sound very paranoid here. Understandable, but I can reason in the same fashion that you committed the nk to frame me. i.e. you were pushing my connection(or lack thereof) to Hockey and my attack on Serial as "scummy". Eliminating Tenchi gives you a natural target in me. Another possibility is that

Feeres is scum

and has done his best to set us against each other.

And lastly, you had said previously that Feeres was obvtown(which I challenged you for, if you recall). And so your only reasoning against him is that analysis he made, and his "jump in activity". Seems like OMGUS.

You forget his reasoning behind his suspicions. Please reread the recent exchange.

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

~25 Hours to Deadline

Vote Count

Feeres - 1 (kikuchiyo)

Not Voting - 2 (Feeres, Hero764)

2 to Lynch.

Deadline

is the end of Sunday, June 14 (Eastern, GMT - 4).

[Hero764]

Really sorry I can't post much today or tommorow(I'll be gone all day, going to bed in like 2 minutes). I'm just going to

vote: kikuchiyo

I would've liked to see Feeres post again but I'm confident in my decision. Hope I was right.

[Feeres]

Uh, seeing as Hero already voted, I don't feel like making my replies very long but rather answer and then get over with the game.

Do you have any reasons for me to believe you are pro-town?

You'd have to find those reasons yourself, for if I'd provide them they'd IMO become useless because of some WIFOM or such.

In response to the D1 stuff, I was thinking that Hockey replaced during D1 so he didn't get a chance to participate in the tactics for scum D1. This would lead me to believe scum was disorganized in D1 and therefore I'd say the attack on me isn't as scumtelly as it's tried to make look.

Other stuff in that 502 post just seem like scum trying to wiggle away as I know I myself am town, I'd just need to convince others of that. Proof of this later. Regarding the doc claim, it's the perfect claim for scum to do.

I do admit that the more I read in to this the more convinced I become that kiku is the last scum remaining. It might lead to rationalizing which is bad, but since Hero hasn't hammered me I have high hopes that I'm right about this.

I am vanilla town, what are you?

Vote: kikuchiyo

[Tenchi]

Until the end, you have all got me confused...

Let us see where this took us.

[SerialClergyman]

I think it's ok to post now there's been a hammer.. if not, tenchi broke the rule first so blame him

Good fun game.. I think you're 99% on finding kiku scum, feeres. There's no way hero doesn't hammer you if he's scum.

I messaged the mod at the end of D2 to suggest hockey/tenchi, and was pretty confident of that until tenchi died, then I messaged VRK again to change the partner to kiku. The end of D2 was my big tell on kiku - not the argument with me so much but the viciousness with which she was trying to make sure hockey wasn't lynched, and her heavy-handed reaction to having that pointed out. She backed that up on D3 with the post that Hockey was definitely scum, and tenchi is probably his partner so vote tenchi - that didn't do much.

Not sure why she killed tenchi though.. she'd have guessed there were no PRs because she's the roleblocker (all guesses - this is not necessarily true) so she couldn't have been worried about a doc block..

I'd probably have not NKed then claimed doc the next day saying she'd protected Feeres. That'd give her a fair bit of credibility, there would be no counter claim and suspicion would fall on either Hero or tenchi and there would be a pretty convincing lynch of tenchi, I think.

OR this is all crap because kiku wasn't scum and Hero did some bizarre thing, or Feeres is lying in his latest post

[Tenchi]

Personally here's the deal. Had I been alive, given the scenarios:

Tenchi, Hero, Feeres: Feeres is scum.
Tenchi, Kiku, Hero: I'm Confused.
Tenchi, Kiku, Feeres: Feeres is scum.

I expected Feeres to be dead at N3. If he's alive, then I feel he'd waffled his way around the summary/analysis he was going to do.

Right now, I think Feeres is lying on his last post.

[Tenchi]

Oh yeah, I don't feel bad with Hero suspecting me to death. It did get annoying since I can't put my point across with him. I'm just happy SC got between us to discuss other things. I am still looking forward to play with you again around the site, Hero.

[SerialClergyman]

Haha.. Well, I'd be interested to work out why he lied in the hammer post, but I guess it's possible.

[Tenchi]

Haha.. Well, I'd be interested to work out why he lied in the hammer post, but I guess it's possible.

It is the most fun thing to do as scum, you should try it. :-p

[SerialClergyman]

I've never been scum - I'm too much of a shining light

[Feeres]

I am actually vanilla town

First time I've played as something else than scum so yeah, it was bit odd. I only really have some intuition that Hero isn't scum and kiku is, we'll see what happens. Having tons of posts coming in when you're away is bit exhausting so I just pushed back analysis later and later because it was going to take hour or so to read everything proper.

[SerialClergyman]

I think it's kinda impossible to ignore Hero not voting you.. that makes your decision for you, really. If Hero was scum and didn't hammer you, he's crazy. So while you did the right thing, his was the decision that really mattered.

Also - I wouldn't have bothered with all the justification for your hammer - just hammer before someone unvotes! You can double post all your actual reasons and stuff, there will be interested onlookers like tenchi and me who are just itching to chat about the game

[Toledo25]

If Hero was scum and didn't hammer you, he's crazy.

I dunno, that could be fun. You could act like total scum, yet only a fool would vote for you.

Anyways, (assuming Kiku is scum) I'd really like to know why tenchi was NK'ed. By the time D3 was over, I was thinking "Tenchi is obvscum!", but I might have been tunneling.

Good game everyone

[Feeres]

I was actually considering for a bit if Hero was scum and just was toying a bit with not hammering me. But the longer on it dragged, the more confident I was with it. So essentially it was just convincing Hero to vote for kiku, which seemed to work out pretty well in the end despite me not doing much anything.

[SerialClergyman]

Hehe, true. You all seem to think it's totally possible.. maybe if I thought Feeres was scum I'd be suspicious of it too, but I was pretty confident of kiku as scum since D3. (was prettu sure scum were 2 of tenchi/hockey/kiku when I died, but I would have gotten it wrong).

That quick hammer Tenchi.. eek! when hockey flipped..

If kiku hadn't been so adamant that hockey was fine and you were scummy she would have taken some suspicion off her and maybe put some onto you. But overall I agree with Toledo - no reason to kill Tenchi. And if you're going to doc claim anyway, why not not NK anyone alive and then claim. That way you can 'confirm' either hero or feeres and getting a Tenchi lynch from there shouldn't be hard. But even without the elbaoration, if there were 3 people left including tenchi and kiku it would be hard to overlook tenchi after a hero scumflip, despite what I thought was a town vs town argument day 2.

Also - sorry for getting you killed Toledo!

Tried to refocus efforts when you started making some good posts D2 compared to Hockey but too much momentum against you, I'm sorry..

[Toledo25]

Serial, it wasn't all your fault. I mean, that rolefish (Day 2, I believe) was a pretty crappy move on my part. Also, after you turned you attention to Hockey, I thought I'd be saved by you and I slacked off. It'd be fun to play with some of you again sometime

Also, all of the NKs disappointed me. Scum killed both of the ICs D1 and D2(weak, this is a newbie game!) and then killed Tenchi (bad idea). C'mon, you guys could have had better choices!

[SerialClergyman]

Yeah - well, my style is to go hard and that means I do get it wrong and push town lynches and I do get NKed a lot, but often good things come of it, and even a 33% scumhit ratio means it's worth doing. Your posts D2 were markedly better, especially compared to Hockey's. A few more, and with a bit of vigor as you say, might have saved you.

I'm pretty happy with (assuming kiku is scum) getting everyone off the tenchi vs hero debate, which would have been disastrous - just unfortunate that we as the town couldn't quite make the step to Hockey instead of you. Kiku I think was put in a tough place at the end of day 2.. she probably saved Hockey by steadfastly sticking with lynching you but it just brought her out of her shell a little, and when I replaced in she hadn't put a foot wrong. But if she'd bussed, she'd have had to fight off 3 lynches to win and if she didn't she gets eventually tied to Hockeyscum. Bit of a catch 22 for her.

At that point she couldn't have known how many power roles there were as well.. there was a good chance there was both a doc and a cop out against her, so bussing would have been close to suicide.

(all this analysis continues to look stupid if she's not scum hehe)

TBH, if I were scum I'd have killed both ICs. He made some great posts on D1, really measured and insightful, and there was no question I'd be gunning for Hockey on D3, let alone starting to doubt kiku. So I don't think it was a blanket policy of kill the vaguely experienced people, I think it was at least partially game-specific.

I've already talked about Tenchi's lynch, but I'd be really curious to hear kiku's reasoning, if she's not sick of the game by now.

[Tenchi]

That quick hammer Tenchi.. eek! when hockey flipped..

It was a personal gamble. On the chance that he was scum, I would be more or less cleared as a personal stupid lucky newbie.

Sorry for experimenting on this game. :-p It was stupid and I probably won't do it again.

Feeres OMG is the best actor...

[Hero764]

Muahahahahahaha. I tricked you all!

jk.

I was vanilla townie as well. So there were no power roles I guess. Tenchi, I don't think Feeres would still be lying at this point . Serial, nice analysis posts. Good luck in your other game that I got replaced in .

First game on the site and town wins.

Oh yeah, I don't feel bad with Hero suspecting me to death. It did get annoying since I can't put my point across with him. I'm just happy SC got between us to discuss other things. I am still looking forward to play with you again around the site, Hero.

Same to you.

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

Final Day 4 Vote Count

Feeres - 1 (kikuchiyo) [/b][/color]

kikuchiyo - 2 (Hero764, Feeres)

Not Voting - 0 ()

2 to Lynch.

Deadline

is the end of Sunday, June 14 (Eastern, GMT - 4).