Mini 754 - Frogs Mafia Game, Set and Match.

[scotmany12]

"Will post later" posts are often a sign of deliberately lurking scum.

Kinda sounds like someone who used to be in the game, don't you think?

[Xylthixlm]

Seriously, if you're too busy to post, just let yourself get replaced. "Will post later" posts are often a sign of deliberately lurking scum.

Kinda sounds like someone who used to be in the game, don't you think?

I can't actually disagree.

[scotmany12]

Seriously, if you're too busy to post, just let yourself get replaced. "Will post later" posts are often a sign of deliberately lurking scum.

Kinda sounds like someone who used to be in the game, don't you think?

I can't actually disagree.

So you admit to being scum then?

[Xylthixlm]

Seriously, if you're too busy to post, just let yourself get replaced. "Will post later" posts are often a sign of deliberately lurking scum.

Kinda sounds like someone who used to be in the game, don't you think?

I can't actually disagree.

So you admit to being scum then?

Don't act dense, it doesn't become you. I obviously meant that yes, RR made "Will post later" posts.

[dahill1]

I think the point scot is trying to make is: you're being extremely hypocritical

[Xylthixlm]

I think the point scot is trying to make is: you're being extremely hypocritical

No, being hypocritical would be if I said rr's lurking wasn't scummy.

[dahill1]

I think the point scot is trying to make is: you're being extremely hypocritical

No, being hypocritical would be if I said rr's lurking wasn't scummy.

But you are attacking someone for something that Raging Rabbit, you for all intensive purposes, had done.

[Xylthixlm]

Okay, obligatory "I replaced a lurker" post.

RR was lurking. Some people thought that was scummy. I agree. It was scummy. Now, I know that RR was town, and therefore was a lurking townie. Sadly they exist. I might have been on RR's case if I had been in the game from the beginning, but I wasn't, I replaced RR. Feel free to take rr's behavior into account when evaluating me.

CK's lurking is still scummy.

[Xylthixlm]

I think the point scot is trying to make is: you're being extremely hypocritical

No, being hypocritical would be if I said rr's lurking wasn't scummy.

But you are attacking someone for something that Raging Rabbit, you for all intensive purposes, had done.

I'm not raging rabbit. I'm allowed to think raging rabbit was a scummy townie.

[nitpick] It's "all intents and purposes" [/nitpick]

[Shanba]

Guys, I've lost internet access. I'm PMing Kscope to as him to look after the game while I try o get it fixed. Sorry all.

[dahill1]

I'm going to be gone for pretty much all this summer starting about this Wednesday.
I really like this game so in the unlikely chance it's still going I'll gladly replace back in, but for now I need a replacement.

Sorry

I should have some access possibly this weekend but after that nothing.

[MacavityLock]

I must say, we're all using our extra time really well. <grumble grumble grumble>

Xyl and Scot, do you still not see what I'm saying re: Izzy?

Izzy, any response?

CK, anything at all?

[Xylthixlm]

Xyl and Scot, do you still not see what I'm saying re: Izzy?

I see what you're saying about "backfill", but I don't think that's necessarily a scumtell. I had something very very similar happen to me in Lynch All Lurkers mafia as town (finally ended so I can talk about it). I had voted someone (turned out to be town), and they started acting really scummy under pressure and got lynched. Later on someone asked me about it and I could only remember the scummy stuff that the person did under pressure - I completely forgot my original reason for the vote, because it was so weak compared to my later reasons.

I'd be happier with a CKD lynch.

My thoughts in this post still pretty much sum up what I'm thinking.

[curiouskarmadog]

updating today or tomorrow...or...

"Will post later"

[Shanba]

I'm back online after a new modem got bought. For future reference, though, kaleidoscope has the role PMs.

I'm going to search for a replacement for dahill, and I'm going to take a vote on whether we should replace Cit Karne or wait for his access to imrpove.

Please vote in bold.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

...why are people posting if the deadline's passed?

Shanba should have updated the thread title, but

Yeah, I lost internet connection yesterday or I would already have been trying to find a replacement for citizen karne. I've already extended the deadline once and don't particularly wish to do so again, but I understand replacements need some time to bed in and its better to get a replacement before phase changes anyway. So y'all get an extra week from when I find a cit karne replacement.

So, now you've got tons of time to respond to my accusation :}

Difference of opinion is the simple answer. You're interpreting his earlier behaviour differently. Part of the confusion, I think, is that when I say he tunnels, I don't just mean on people - in my experience, CKD can also tunnel on particular questions or occurances even when they seem unimportant or irrelevent (in my opinion, obviously). He certainly seemed to do that throughout this game - he's spent a fair bit of time concetrating on particular things and repeated his quetsions a fair few times.

[MacavityLock]

Difference of opinion is the simple answer. You're interpreting his earlier behaviour differently. Part of the confusion, I think, is that when I say he tunnels, I don't just mean on people - in my experience, CKD can also tunnel on particular questions or occurances even when they seem unimportant or irrelevent (in my opinion, obviously). He certainly seemed to do that throughout this game - he's spent a fair bit of time concetrating on particular things and repeated his quetsions a fair few times.

Please provide examples from Days 1 and 2.

[Shanba]

CDB replaces dahill1 as soon as dahill says that's good with him.

Still waiting on thoughts about Cit Karne.

[Xylthixlm]

From a gameplay point of view the best thing would be if Citizen Karne comes back and starts posting.

But you're the mod, it's your decision.

[MacavityLock]

I agree with Xyl on the above.

[scotmany12]

As of now ML, I'm not buying into you whole backfill thing. It just seems like a stretch to me. Izzy should still give examples that you requested though, and when she does this should clear this whole thing up.

[Shanba]

CDB replaces dahill.

I will search for a Citizen Karne replacement. If he posts before I find one, then that's fine.

[ChannelDelibird]

Hi all, I've started but not yet finished my read through, will give you my thoughts as soon as I'm done.

[curiouskarmadog]

I say

replace him...

the game has stalled (yes, i still need to update the past 2 pages, work is kicking my ass)

[ChannelDelibird]

Right, I've read through the game (from the first page of Day 1, every post in order, like some long boring novel... =P) and have attempted to collate my thoughts on everyone below.

curiouskarmadog

I didn't really like the way he waded into scotmany and Karne's percentage argument on page 6. I found the original argument vacuous and entirely based on a player's approach to a game that had nothing whatsoever to do with alignment, and I felt that CKD was trying to make more of that than was necessary or helpful to the town. His vote on Karne next page, following up on that, smelt of BS.
I need to reread D2 CKD, I didn't get much either way on him then, but his D1 play above and D3 make me suspicious and I think I need a closer look.
His argument with dahill today about previous scum games seems like semantics to me (not unlike the percentage business on Day 1), blown out of proportion by, admittedly, both sides, including my predecessor, but I think CKD took it too far. There's a pattern here to my eyes of CKD trying to make big arguments out of semantics rather than focus on more important things.

One of my top suspects right now.

Raging Rabbit -> Xylthixlm

RR:
I didn't feel good about the way he jumped into TSQ's line of random-voting questioning in the early pages like he was TSQ's police partner or something. I could see RRscum backing a well-respected town player's arguments because he thought TSQ's opinion would carry enough weight for him to avoid making his own lines of questioning.
I didn't understand the point of his 502.
I did like, however, his scotmany vote on Day 2 - not the vote itself, I wouldn't have been voting scot at that point, but the circumstances. I think scum would have been voting Izzy, Gorrad or maybe MBF at that stage, so going against the grain was a point in his favour.
What I didn't like so much was that he started lurking rather than push his scotmany vote.
Xyl:
I didn't like his first posts, seemed unco-operative in a stubborn rather than scummy way, but I think he's made a valuable contribution since. Particularly his argument with Izzy has made me strongly look in her direction now.

I am unsure on RR/Xyl. I think I would rather go after CKD or Izzy at this point.

crywolf20084 -> DizzyIzzyb13

crywolf:
Was caught in a hole about her reasons for her random vote but just makes her playstyle silly rather than scummy.
When the discussion left her to focus on Haterade/TSQ she started lurking. Hmm.
I'm not sure about her reasons for lurking/replacement given on page 9, but at that stage I don't think she requested replacement to escape from being cornered or anything, so not sure what to make of it.
Izzy:
Reading Day 2 I was tempted by TSQ's case on her, in particular the 'confirmed town' stuff rubbed me up the wrong way. However, I would probably have been voting Gorrad at that stage.
After Xyl's arrival, badly needed to get off her high horse and answer Xyl's questions. Xyl seems to have pinned her pretty convincingly on this issue.
ML's 'backfill' point is one I strongly agree with. That's something I've found myself doing as scum and I don't see it being done by town.

Izzy is my top suspect at the moment. I'm not even going to into the mod-outguessing neighbour stuff.

scotmany12

I was disappointed that by the start of Day 2 he'd slowed down to just posting 'Gorrad is scum' in various forms every few posts, but I'm pretty certain scot is town. The daykill is pretty convincing, but he's also completely consistent with my previous experience of scotmanytown. (don't know if I've seen you as scum, though - could you link me to a game or two?)

MacavityLock

I didn't like the "I don't want to tip my suspicions yet" shtick on page 5. Just seemed like a lame cover story for "I haven't got any suspicions yet", which as you may say, suggests slow-start town rather than scum, which is the feeling I got.
Didn't like the suggestion of CW's mason partner claiming on page 12.
I liked his post 373 criticising Gorrad's CW vote though.
I felt ML really fell away on D2, but this was right in the middle of my slog through the thread so I may have missed him. I will go back and reread ML Day 2 at the same time that I check out CKD then.

Overall I have a slight town feel on ML, pending D2 reread. Certainly, there are better people to go after.

Citizen Karne

As I am currently leaning towards CKDscum, I feel better about CK as town during the D1 percentage argument.
I liked some of his points against MBF in his PBPA but agreed with TSQ about its nature. It did read strongly that he was looking for scumminess anywhere and while I'm far too lazy to do my own PBPA of MBF as well as read the whole thread I don't think it was as useful as he seemed to think it was.
The biggest stick-out to me was his violation of his FoS/Vote meta to "draw attention to the case". I find it highly unlikely that people would have ignored things if he'd stuck to his principles, which makes me doubt him.

I'm unsure on CK. I find his meta violation confusing but I think there are more compelling targets.

---------------------------

So, in summary, my top suspects right now are Izzy and CKD, with Xyl a little way behind. I will vote Izzy as soon as:

Mod: could we get an updated Vote Count please?

So Yeah.