Mini 804 - The Resistance - Mod Abandoned

[veerus]

I'm for a random distribution as long as Crazy is not in the pool, thus my rejection. I propose we do another 3-person random and go with that.

[Crazy]

To those on my case: What the heck makes me obvscum?

[veerus]

In subsequent rounds, I definitely think we should try to get as many pro-town people as possible, but here, I don't think it matters that much, because whatever happens, we benefit. Fishy might be right that the least ideal situation is exactly one spy in the group; I don't know about that,

and I don't think it's necessarily true that that spy will always sabotage.

*shrug*

You want to see how scum could daytalk? Here's the first example. A comment which, coming from someone to whom the plans are being distributed, could imply he plans not to sabotage them tonight.

This started it, for me anyway. While it may have seemed a simple attempt at theory, your subsequent attempts at defending imply that Fishy may have been on to something.

[Albert B. Rampage]

A disturbance in the force, you have felt. If thrown in a cage with veerus I was, safe would I feel.

[Fishythefish]

Anyone can talk theory and look pro-town. It's hard for scum to post content in the ways of scum-hunting, but talking theory is not hard... and thus doesn't need to be rewarded by having plans given.

Firstly, this setup is a complete unknown. Theory is extremely important, and if we don't understand the theory I can't see us winning. Secondly, you were saying that people who had posted a lot of theory were more likely to be scum- not just that it was a nulltell. Both the players you named have contributed more than the average to scumhunting discussions (or certainly done more than several other players), so the accusation that we are covering for lack of scumhunting is false.

Your second point is that scum want to be on the plans, and therefore that ort and I are more likely scum.
1) At this stage in the game, it isn't at all clear that scum would want to be on the plans.
2) You've said yourself that you have no idea what kind of decision is good for the town- and hence for the scum- at the moment.
3) You appear to have randomly selected two of the six players who voted no.
4) I've repeatedly said I don't want the plans. I excluded myself from my random numbers.

Okay, if you don't believe ort's plan, then I'll take you out of the picture and focus on ort, then.

1. He believes that we should try to get plans of all town. Scum at least want

one

of their people on the plans, most likely, so they'd try to look pro-town.
2. Yeah, well that's me... and I'm not really going with the grain here.
3. It's because ort picked you two on the plan, and Nab. Nab didn't matter to me because he was on the plan to begin with.
4. But you changed your mind.

I'm not saying ort is obvscum, but I don't agree with his philosophy. I'd much prefer ABR's proposal.

OK. Well, I agree that a decent scum tactic is nominating two townie looking town players, and a townie looking scum. Picking

two

townie looking scum would be completely nonsensical- in fact ort's plan clearly distances him from the two players on it.
I never changed my mind about not wanting plans.

Currently, I would be extremely opposed to any set of players involving someone who was definitely in favour of my proposal and someone who was definitely against it. I don't feel that many players have acted overwhelmingly scummily, and I think our chances of just guessing three townies are very low. I would reject any "townie" ticket that doesn't involve me out of hand- I just don't feel confident about enough people, and the chances of ending up with just one scum are too high. I like:
veerus-Pyscho-forbiddanlight; coherent as a scumteam in favour of a 1-scum proposal from me yesterday.
I'd like people making proposals to explain the logic behind them. I really think it's too early in the game to go for three townies on a ticket.

[forbiddanlight]

ABR is not doing anything to make me more comfortable about giving him plans. At all.

Nabakov probably her russian liaison. Definitely no plans for both of them.

Any case for this?

I'll give you all the logic behind my proposal when I get back from work tonight.

[Knight of Cydonia]

ABR is fitting his meta - oh so very angry and jackassish.
Unfortunately, this is his meta for EVERY role. So I have no idea.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to fear. Fear leads to...suffering.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Well, you do make me suffer in every game I'm in with you. And I do fear seeing your name on the /in list.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Funny, because you /ined after me.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Y'know how your mum always tells you "Look before you leap?" I leapt, then looked about a week later. And couldn't be arsed to flake.

[Crazy]

Firstly, this setup is a complete unknown. Theory is extremely important, and if we don't understand the theory I can't see us winning. Secondly, you were saying that people who had posted a lot of theory were more likely to be scum- not just that it was a nulltell. Both the players you named have contributed more than the average to scumhunting discussions (or certainly done more than several other players), so the accusation that we are covering for lack of scumhunting is false.

I think I might have misspoke when regarding it as a scumtell. It is a nulltell, but I'm strongly against supporting it as a towntell.

And yeah, looking back, you and ort have contributed in the way of scum-hunting... so I think I will disown what I said in the name of specific players, here, though I still stand by what I'm saying in theory.

I like:
veerus-Pyscho-forbiddanlight; coherent as a scumteam in favour of a 1-scum proposal from me yesterday.

I think forbiddan is scum; I'd be against putting her in a proposal with anybody except someone else that I thought was obvscum.

[forbiddanlight]

ABR is fitting his meta - oh so very angry and jackassish.
Unfortunately, this is his meta for EVERY role. So I have no idea.

Oh, thanks for enlightening me. I'm not even going to try classing him, and just safely keep him OUT of the pool.

I think forbiddan is scum; I'd be against putting her in a proposal with anybody except someone else that I thought was obvscum.

I love how everyone is vaguely alluding to me being scum without any case. I didn't know because the set up was different that this could work.

Anyway, choices explanation

ort- appears to be putting too much effort into checking Fishy's math and such. It's WIFOM, and he's probably who I'm least solid on, but I still feel he's town.

NabNab- Is awesome. Oh, and he is actively scumhunting, questioning things, and the fact I think he was among the first to explain why random was not the greatest idea in the world.

veerus- I have gotten no scum vibe from him, and overall felt he's town.

Why yes, I am going for three 7s and trying to get three townies in on the proposal. I think the math was already done for why one should exclude themself.

Of course, I'm up for listening to other ideas. Well thought out and explained ones, I mean.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I am against Nabakov. REPICK.

[Albert B. Rampage]

How about Fishy, Veerus and Psycho?

[forbiddanlight]

I am against Nabakov. REPICK.

Yes, because you are the embodiment of the town.

How about Fishy, Veerus and Psycho?

That's...actually acceptable, with my bet on Psycho being the scum if we get a sabotage act.

But, I'd like to see what other people say.

[Knight of Cydonia]

I would vote yes on that.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Honestly, the BEST way to proceed is to have NO DISCUSSION, and group THREE SPIES TOGETHER.

Best case scenario they all sabotage and we have three CONFIRMED SPIES.

HOWEVER, if they can COORDINATE who is sabotaging and who isn't, then we are SCREWED.

DISCUSSION HURTS THE TOWN. FL AND NABAKOV --> EXTREMELY SUSPICIOUS.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Remember, we will know how many acts of sabotage have occurred after each plan is carried out. Scumhunting is MEANINGLESS at this stage in the game.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Btw I'm NOT aiming to group 3 spies together at this point, because Nabakov and FL have flapped their mouths far too much so its likely they have breadcrumbed their potential action already.

Let's get 3 rebels in on the plan.

[forbiddanlight]

Honestly, the BEST way to proceed is to have NO DISCUSSION, and group THREE SPIES TOGETHER.

Best case scenario they all sabotage and we have three CONFIRMED SPIES.

HOWEVER, if they can COORDINATE who is sabotaging and who isn't, then we are SCREWED.

DISCUSSION HURTS THE TOWN. FL AND NABAKOV --> EXTREMELY SUSPICIOUS.

I don't precisely see it that way, but I understand your point. I personally think discussions helps us find the spies to group together.

Btw I'm NOT aiming to group 3 spies together at this point, because Nabakov and FL have flapped their mouths far too much so its likely they have breadcrumbed their potential action already.

Maybe you should point out where we've done so? I don't see anywhere in EITHER of our discussions that could be daytalk, so to speak

[Albert B. Rampage]

Y'know how your mum always tells you "Look before you leap?" I leapt, then looked about a week later. And couldn't be arsed to flake.

Your mother, perhaps. I'll make sure to give you fair warning next time I see you sign up after me.

[Fishythefish]

Btw I'm NOT aiming to group 3 spies together at this point, because Nabakov and FL have flapped their mouths far too much so its likely they have breadcrumbed their potential action already.

Let's get 3 rebels in on the plan.

This is paranoia. They haven't got a daytalking code, and it's as easy for the town to spot potential daytalking as other scum. What you are suggesting stops all discussion, and prevents us from following the optimal tactic- grouping together players who are likely to be scum together.

I think the best tactic for selecting the recipients is taking three players who voted the same way yesterday, and don't look particularly good.

[PsychoSniper]

How about Fishy, Veerus and Psycho?

That's...actually acceptable, with my bet on Psycho being the scum if we get a sabotage act.

But, I'd like to see what other people say.

Good job, you've just told you're fellow scum that "Hey, if you get grouped with Psycho, feel free to sabotage, because we'll just blame it on him!"

This post is a

far

better example of possible scum communication than anything Crazy has posted so far.

Seriously, stop giving scum hints of what to do, intentional or not!

[PsychoSniper]

Honestly, the BEST way to proceed is to have NO DISCUSSION, and group THREE SPIES TOGETHER.

Best case scenario they all sabotage and we have three CONFIRMED SPIES.

HOWEVER, if they can COORDINATE who is sabotaging and who isn't, then we are SCREWED.

DISCUSSION HURTS THE TOWN.

This post pretty much sums up what I (still) think, at least for Day 1, although I'm not sure if ABR means this for Day 1 only or in general.