Mini 754 - Frogs Mafia Game, Set and Match.

[Shanba]

Yeah, I lost internet connection yesterday or I would already have been trying to find a replacement for citizen karne. I've already extended the deadline once and don't particularly wish to do so again, but I understand replacements need some time to bed in and its better to get a replacement before phase changes anyway. So y'all get an extra week from when I find a cit karne replacement.

[Xylthixlm]

<3

[MacavityLock]

Quote pyramid hacked together for ease of reading. I didn't change any content, I promise.

curiouskarmadog - Behaviour consistent with past experience of CKD town play. Probable town.

Izzy, could you elaborate on your read on CKD here?

My past experience with CKD is that he's rather prone to making questionable judgments and drawing illogical conclusions when town while gettign tunnelled on issues that are of minor importance at best. I don't see his play in this game as being inconsistent with that.

The more I think about it, the more I think this is a clear scumtell from Izzy. While the "illogical conclusions and tunneling" read on ckd is totally reasonable right now based on his interactions with dahill, it wasn't when Izzy posted her quick reads on everybody on day 2. I double-checked, and I don't see anything from ckd on days 1 or 2 that would fit. Therefore, it seems obvious to me that Izzy was making stuff up then and tried to find something to say now that would fit when Xyl asked about it. I don't know if this scumtell has a name, but I'm going to call it "backfill". And Izzy backfilled.

Vote: Izzy

P.S. Thanks Shanba.

[dahill1]

Quote pyramid hacked together for ease of reading. I didn't change any content, I promise.

curiouskarmadog - Behaviour consistent with past experience of CKD town play. Probable town.

Izzy, could you elaborate on your read on CKD here?

My past experience with CKD is that he's rather prone to making questionable judgments and drawing illogical conclusions when town while gettign tunnelled on issues that are of minor importance at best. I don't see his play in this game as being inconsistent with that.

The more I think about it, the more I think this is a clear scumtell from Izzy. While the "illogical conclusions and tunneling" read on ckd is totally reasonable right now based on his interactions with dahill, it wasn't when Izzy posted her quick reads on everybody on day 2. I double-checked, and I don't see anything from ckd on days 1 or 2 that would fit. Therefore, it seems obvious to me that Izzy was making stuff up then and tried to find something to say now that would fit when Xyl asked about it. I don't know if this scumtell has a name, but I'm going to call it "backfill". And Izzy backfilled.

Vote: Izzy

P.S. Thanks Shanba.

This is an excellent catch. Dizzy, explanation?

[Citizen Karne]

Many things are occurring at once.

I should be active by next week. Sorry, last week of high school is a lot more difficult and time-consuming than I thought it would be.

[dahill1]

Many things are occurring at once.

I should be active by next week. Sorry, last week of high school is a lot more difficult and time-consuming than I thought it would be.

QFT

[curiouskarmadog]

Updating from page 37…typing as reading.

So CKD, how about instead of harassing me about whether and when I'm going to read the game, you answer questions 2 and 3?

why the fuck will you not answer the question...you implied that scot had a problem with asking you question...he didnt....the answer to 2 and 3 is he didnt...you made it up...now here is a new question that you will probably go to the ends of the earth to avoid..

WHY did you say that scot had a problem with you asking questions when in fact he never implied anything of the such? One more question(and you should appreciate this one). Why do you have a problem with me asking you questions? You must if you went to this extreme to avoid answering mine?

==
Noting that it could 3 pages of pushing to get Xyl to read the game.

==

Sigh. Excuse me while I snap here.

DizzyIzzy: I am

trying to fucking scumhunt

in the best way that I can, and you are

actively opposing my efforts

. Just because you think that right way to catch up on a game is to read it from page 1 and moving forward doesn't make it so, and I will read the game in

any damn order I want to

. I do not intend to ignore everything that has gone before. Now, give me

one fucking reason

I should not assume you are being uncooperative because you're

frightened scum

. And while you're at it, if you're town it wouldn't hurt you to

answer the damn questions

.

two notes on this exchange....Xyl, you are not fucking scum hunting (at the point of this post)...if you were doing everything you could you would have read the fucking game.

Dizzy, you are being as stubborn as Xyl...why? There is no reason not to proivde you opinions on players or whatever he was asking. How is that pro town?

Both of you are being fucking anti-town, hypocritical, and scummy. Xyl is a fucking joke by saying dizzy is being uncooperative when he has refused to answer my questions.

==

I'm not refusing to answer them, I'm just not doing it until he's read the game.

Why?

==

Okay, confession time #2.

On that basis, curiouskarmadog (who answered question #1 but skipped #2 and #3) and DizzyIzzy (who is refusing to answer my questions at all) look pretty bad. I'll concentrate my read on them.

wait, you are talking about questions you have posed? I thought I addressed the questions you asked...looking back.

1) Who do you think is scum? Name at least two people. Briefly, why?
2) Did any of the role reveals surprise you? Whose? Briefly, why?
3) Any events that you think are extra-important for me to read?

Ok got 20 minutes to post something.
Top two scum.

First dahill, reason 1.) (rehashed) I really think you need to read how and when things happened…but the skinny of it was this. In a discussion about a traitor (ironically helping dahill) I post a game that I was in where I was scum. Later Dahill posts..

@CK and ckd: I'd like to see some games of you, if any, as scum

This rubbed me wrong. To me it seemed like he was just trying to look like he was scum hunting. I had already posted one game. That fact he was asking me to post “some” games, seemed like he had not read the first game I had linked. Which made me wonder if he was really trying to get a read on me..why did he not read that game. He states that he did indeed read the game, but wanted more. Which is fine. If he has asked me for “more” games it would not have hit my radar. The fact he asked for “some” seemed like he really wasn’t reading. Yes is semantics…but the fucking devil in is the details.

2.) Out of the gate today he was through more suspicion on Dizzy who I feel is town…you really need to read the game to see what is going on here.

3.) he was still pushing a case on RR (who has not been posting) and is in fact gone and not just lurking.

The other CK.

CK hit my radar early game (read the game to find out why)….now appears to be lurking until a wagon hits…..the under the radar bit until heat gets going is suspicious

That answers question 1….2 I thought was a silly question…nothing surprises me in this (or any) game. As for question 3, I mention at least once in this post that you should go back and read this interchange between dahill and I and form your own opinion…did you miss it?

Right now, I am not digging RR replacement at all…his entrance to this game has been super scummy…refusing to answer questions, refusing to read the game until he was forced to, implying that scot said something he blatantly didn’t, and implying that I am not addressing questions…when I did (with the exception of question 2…which doesn’t seem relevant.)

==

Here's the first post where CKD gives any indication he believes anyone else to be town (aside from a brief mention of Izzy earlier)...

Funny that his strongest town read on anyone who isn't role-confirmed is "on the fence, but leaning town". He's definitely leaving himself wiggle room to come out as suspicious of anyone here.

from post 923.

I left myself wiggle room?...bullshit. I am one of the only person at this point in the game to express my opinion and scum hunt. CK and RR are not posting so how am I suppose to get a read off them?..asking questions….I love how you take a scum hunting post and say I am leaving myself wiggle room. I also state that RR has risen on my scum list….and also express my suspicion of dahill.

I state in that post I feel that dizzy and scot are town…and say that ML is under the radar, but I feel townish vibes off him….

Wiggle room my ass….

Also, the first post there, where he says "that leaves dahill, ML, and raging". CKD: What happened to Citizen Karne in that list?

At that point I felt he was town(ish), which I mention in a later post….felt dahill, ML, RR were the question marks..after rereading more and a couple more posts from CK…my opinion changed from townish to on the fence and changed again later to scummish….my opinion of ML changed too..he went from question mark to townish.

==

Ckd, it appears that I'm your top scum candidate at the moment..but you're not voting for me. In fact, you recently just unvoted me. Any reason for that?

What made me vote you to begin with was the “some” vs. “more” comment. The more I talked about it the more I was certain you were scum. But as scot pointed out…the “some” could have been for CK benefit and I was added on the question. I can see his how that might have occurred…so my “catch” might not actually be a catch. I still don’t like your play (for already stated reasons)..but not enough for a vote.

Dahill, another question for you (thought I asked this already, but don’t see it)..you asked CK and I for games….CK only said he has not been scum in any games…does that mean you didn’t want him to post any other games?...I never saw I follow up to that..why?

==

mikeburnfire - Scum. Should be hammered.
Gorrad - Also scum. Needs lynching.
dahill1 - Seems consistently productive. Lean town, don't rule out scum playing well, though.
curiouskarmadog - Behaviour consistent with past experience of CKD town play. Probable town.
Raging Rabbit - Lean town-aligned idiot. Play is more stupid than scummy.
scotmany12 - Tunelled on Gorrad. Good target, though. Lean town, possible scum, particularly in the unlikely event that Gorrad flips town. Also potential serial killer if we have multiple scum groups, though I think that's unlikely.
MacavityLock - Productive. Forward thinking. Lean town.
Citizen Karne - Productive, if misguided. Weak town lead, possible scum.
Thestatusquo - Potential third scum. Null read so far, potentially scummy behaviour today could be due to personal issues. Still.. my favoured target for member #1 of a three man team.

Mmm.

Izzy, could you elaborate on your read on CKD here?

Izzy, could you elaborate on your read on CKD here?

My past experience with CKD is that he's rather prone to making questionable judgments and drawing illogical conclusions when town while gettign tunnelled on issues that are of minor importance at best. I don't see his play in this game as being inconsistent with that.

Wait a fucking minute…you posted that at 706

At that time..we were BOTH voting for MBF..as a matter of fact..you were yelling for MBF’s hammer. What was I doing at this point that was a “questionable judgement” or an “illogical conclusion”?…you agreed with me. Why does this feel like you are saying what you think Xyl wants to hear?

==

That's a stupid approach, Xyl. I'm not refusing to answer your questions. I said I would answer them when you finish your re-read. You completely invalidate any point to your approach by announcing what you intend to do before the point at which I'd said I'd answer your questions, suince now there's no way for you to test whether I was trying to avoid answering or, y;'know, actually sticking to the principle that you should be reading the whole damn thread. Nice work, scum.

Your "principle" is stupid and scummy. There is no protown reason for you to not answer until I finish reading; it's just a stalling tactic.

Negative. There is a very pro-town reason to be opposed to doing your work for you - namely, that it prevents you from playing as lazy scum and simply coming to concllusions based upon other people's answers which you can then blame them for to avoid suspicion if we were to lynch a town player. Frankly, the fact that you asked those quetsions before reading a game is scummier than my refusal to answer them until you've read it.

ok, but now that appears he is reading the game..what is your excuse?

==


Ha..ML explains better why Dizzy’s post bothers me. “backfill”….ML you should wiki that for credit

The more I think about it, the more I think this is a clear scumtell from Izzy. While the "illogical conclusions and tunneling" read on ckd is totally reasonable right now based on his interactions with dahill, it wasn't when Izzy posted her quick reads on everybody on day 2. I double-checked, and I don't see anything from ckd on days 1 or 2 that would fit. Therefore, it seems obvious to me that Izzy was making stuff up then and tried to find something to say now that would fit when Xyl asked about it. I don't know if this scumtell has a name, but I'm going to call it "backfill". And Izzy backfilled.

Vote: Izzy

P.S. Thanks Shanba.

Caught up…

Was thinking the RR/Xyl had to be scum until Dizzy's recent posts.

want to hear both answer my questions...

I want CK to fucking post anything.

[MacavityLock]

Was thinking the RR/Xyl had to be scum until Dizzy's recent posts.

There's no reason they can't both be scum. Scenario: Xyl-scum asks his buddy Izzy a seemingly innocuous question that could likely be answered reasonably and un-scummily. She responds with (to me) something very scummy. Neither Izzy nor Xyl respond to my accusation, even though Xyl has been posting elsewhere on site.

I'm not sure if this is what's going on or not, but this is to say that Izzy's increased scumminess has not decreased Xyl/RR's in my book.

[dahill1]

Dahill, another question for you (thought I asked this already, but don’t see it)..you asked CK and I for games….CK only said he has not been scum in any games…does that mean you didn’t want him to post any other games?...I never saw I follow up to that..why?

I generally don't really read games of people as town if I'm meta-ing them because there is no universal town-tell, but there are some common ones as scum. Play as town can fluctuate a lot from game to game, but scum play still has the basic concepts (keep scumbuddies alive, try and hop on easy lynches, etc.)

[dahill1]

Also, as it stand I'm still fine with lynching RR/Xyl

Mod: Votecount?

[Xylthixlm]

Where did you indicate that you were going to read the game before deadline if at all before this post? Are you planning on reading the game before deadline...if so when?..if not why?

If by "reading the game" you mean starting at page 1 and reading every post in order, as if they were some exceptionally boring novel, no, I do not plan on doing that. It's a waste of my time.

[scotmany12]

Xyl needs to post and start providing shit. All he has been doing is quoting shit and making one liners that have absolutely no sustenance to them. This includes answering ckd's questions, which he is right in saying you ignored. Izzy, answer xyl's question. This is not for xyl's benefit; I want to know where you currently stand. CK, post something useful.

My gut is still telling me that ckd is scum, but I will be okay in lynching xyl.

[scotmany12]

Where did you indicate that you were going to read the game before deadline if at all before this post? Are you planning on reading the game before deadline...if so when?..if not why?

If by "reading the game" you mean starting at page 1 and reading every post in order, as if they were some exceptionally boring novel, no, I do not plan on doing that. It's a waste of my time.

Stop fucking playing mafia right now. Either don't fucking replace in anymore, or fucking read the game like you are fucking supposed to fucking do.

[Xylthixlm]

I left myself wiggle room?...bullshit. I am one of the only person at this point in the game to express my opinion and scum hunt. CK and RR are not posting so how am I suppose to get a read off them?..asking questions….I love how you take a scum hunting post and say I am leaving myself wiggle room. I also state that RR has risen on my scum list….and also express my suspicion of dahill.

Yes, good, you expressed suspicious of people. Scum do that a lot. What you didn't do was say who you were

not

suspicious of. Scum don't do that very often. As it was, if you later picked a player and decided you needed to attack them, there would be nothing in your posts to contradict that. That's "leaving yourself wiggle room".

I state in that post I feel that dizzy and scot are town…and say that ML is under the radar, but I feel townish vibes off him….

Dizzy and scot are partially role-confirmed. "Under the radar but I feel a townish vibe" is a ton of wiggle room.

By this point in the game you should have several people you think are town for non-role-related reasons. Who are they?

2 I thought was a silly question…nothing surprises me in this (or any) game.

I don't believe that for a moment.

[Xylthixlm]

Where did you indicate that you were going to read the game before deadline if at all before this post? Are you planning on reading the game before deadline...if so when?..if not why?

If by "reading the game" you mean starting at page 1 and reading every post in order, as if they were some exceptionally boring novel, no, I do not plan on doing that. It's a waste of my time.

Stop fucking playing mafia right now. Either don't fucking replace in anymore, or fucking read the game like you are fucking supposed to fucking do.

I have no idea who decided that I am fucking suppoed to fucking read the game from page 1. I've tried reading games from page 1 and I get nothing out of it. I do better by picking a person, filtering to just their posts, getting a sense of their play, and then clicking through to any posts that catch my attention and reading the surrounding context; rinse and repeat for the rest of the players in the game.

[Xylthixlm]

Xyl needs to post and start providing shit. All he has been doing is quoting shit and making one liners that have absolutely no sustenance to them.

I am curious what sort of shit you're expecting me to provide.

[dahill1]

Dizzy and scot are partially role-confirmed.

Wait...what?
This is like the opposite of Gorrad's theory except just as scummy. I can understand Scot, but to me Izzy is in no way confirmed or partially-confirmed.

[scotmany12]

Xyl needs to post and start providing shit. All he has been doing is quoting shit and making one liners that have absolutely no sustenance to them.

I am curious what sort of shit you're expecting me to provide.

Up until now, all you have been is quoting and writing one sentences that provides nothing, unless you are yelling at izzy, in which are being hypocritical. But good for you, you actually trying to do something now. Even though you are horribly wrong.

[Xylthixlm]

Dizzy and scot are partially role-confirmed.

Wait...what?
This is like the opposite of Gorrad's theory except just as scummy. I can understand Scot, but to me Izzy is in no way confirmed or partially-confirmed.

Hmmm.

Okay, I'll give you the point on neighbors/unconfirmed not really being role-confirmed. (I've been seeing more put-in-masons-but-make-them-unconfirmed lately, so I don't think that they're more likely to have a scum.)

crywolf's behavior toward archon really doesn't feel like a scum neighbor. If you were a scum neighbor, would you really want to press the idea that one of you has to be scum and get your town neighbor lynched? That seems like it would get you lynched next with high probability.

It's always possible cayke did it for the WIFOM, or just didn't think through what would happen, but ... nah. It doesn't feel right.

[Xylthixlm]

Xyl needs to post and start providing shit. All he has been doing is quoting shit and making one liners that have absolutely no sustenance to them.

I am curious what sort of shit you're expecting me to provide.

Up until now, all you have been is quoting and writing one sentences that provides nothing, unless you are yelling at izzy, in which are being hypocritical. But good for you, you actually trying to do something now. Even though you are horribly wrong.

Actually I've mostly been trying to find good questions to ask. Asking questions is a good thing which I don't do enough of except when I replace. This may explain why my record as a replacement is better than my record where I started the game.

[dahill1]

Dizzy and scot are partially role-confirmed.

Wait...what?
This is like the opposite of Gorrad's theory except just as scummy. I can understand Scot, but to me Izzy is in no way confirmed or partially-confirmed.

Hmmm.

Okay, I'll give you the point on neighbors/unconfirmed not really being role-confirmed. (I've been seeing more put-in-masons-but-make-them-unconfirmed lately, so I don't think that they're more likely to have a scum.)

crywolf's behavior toward archon really doesn't feel like a scum neighbor. If you were a scum neighbor, would you really want to press the idea that one of you has to be scum and get your town neighbor lynched? That seems like it would get you lynched next with high probability.

It's always possible cayke did it for the WIFOM, or just didn't think through what would happen, but ... nah. It doesn't feel right.

or the possibility that crywolf was just bad scum

[curiouskarmadog]

FUCKING ANSWER MY GOD DAMN QUESTIONS XYL!

NO MORE IGNORING THEM..

ALSO EXPLAIN WHY YOU ARE STALLING ANSWERING THEM!

[Xylthixlm]

Er, I thought I did. Which did I miss?

[Xylthixlm]

Here we are.

Everyone thinks I should read the game, I get that. I also get that people think RR was scummy (for lurking... sounds justified), nothing I can do there. Right now I'm trying to get a handle on the game and form some opinions on who's scum, and

I can do that better by asking questions first and reading later

.

not answering my questions.

where did scot imply that he had a problem with your questions?

I didn't say he had a problem with my questions.

Did you indicate anywhere before that post that you intended to read the thread?

No. Happy?

[Xylthixlm]

CKD, I have a question for you. Why are you acting as if you're pissed that I didn't answer questions which you obviously already know the answer to? When I ask a question like that, I consider it a "rhetorical question" and don't expect an answer.