DHSDSM beta: Game Over.

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

You're not tunneling on me to the point of insanity. Therefore you are scum. Or maybe you'll start tunneling now, to fit that part of your town-meta more closely. And thus this game will become another hell whose end I will pray for.

If it "doesn't seem like me," well, too bad. It is me.

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

I, Plum, will be V/LA till say Saturday evening - I'll probably be able to get a post together before the weekend ends if DGB doesn't cover stuff in my absence but I won't have that much time on my hands until Tuesday evening.

Zmd - yeah, that was me, actually. I don't know if you forgot that I was just recently scum with you, and I didn't mention that I was skimming some Little Italy games, saw you in LYLO, and knew you were the scum . . . and you've been scum in a fair amount of the games we've played together. But anyway, you know.

I need to reprocess Ojando and reconsider whether RW is scummy or just, as Frog Dodging put it, not playing too brightly overall. Ojando, the first thing you say about us is

We dislike Zaphod 141 A&B section. A&B was finito already. Don't see any other reason for this to be there than just to self-congratulate, playing up that their hydra was eagerly calling for the finishing votes of the lynch.

I already explained, at this point, why an A&B section got included in that post: I needed to do major catching-up because I'd only had time to focus on the Alpha game, did a major reread-with-analysis post, and saw no compelling reason to excise the A&B section that I'd already written. I was attempting only to let the Town see all my thoughts and notes as I read through the game; when catching up, this is normal for me, and says nothing besides Plum playing as she usually does; quite null. Why did/do you see only self-congratulatory, apparently scummy emphasis on good work done by my other head and the other players?

I wouldn't be asking except that it seems that you've started to see it as fairly damning on my part.

There’s a distinct difference between gloating and what I interpreted it as, which was drawing attention to an apparent town-move. Gloating is something anyone would do, trying to ensure that everyone knows that you’re awesome at scum(sk)hunting is something that scum would do or a townie under pressure, which you weren’t, as far as I recall.

No, I wasn't. I was a rereader taking notes and thoughts and posting them all. I'm not sure why you so insistently believe that there was more scummy motivation to draw attention to the fact that over the course of my reread I attacked A&B to some degree and the fact that DGB also did than null motivation to do a thorough reread post to really catch up. I did not gloat personally and I did not try to ascribe the catching of the SK to myself or otherwise emphasize my part in it. Clarifying that point was what I tried to do, but you took it and tried to make it out as a scum move, which it would be under no circumstances.

This seems like a stretch, he was clearly going to post again before we got close to another lynch. If it was going to continue and he basically ould have refused to vote, ok, but this was hardly a telling point against RW.

Not voting is usually itself a pretty decent scumtell, in my humble opinion, and I don't see any real reason for RW to not have voted one of his suspects in the post in question.

And thus this game will become another hell whose end I will pray for.

*pats head*

I've also become frustrated and decided to self-medicate, prescribing a gut-based system of attack. Well, not fully gut-based, because I have too much principle for that, unfortunately. In fact, I don't even have the spine to vote Ojando at this point, even though I basically feel that I should.

[Saunt Adelaus]

Epic mod-fail: Orthohoops posted after the request for a prod, and before I sent prods. I apologize.

current prod count:

1

:Frog Dodging, PoketheAlpaca, Yosariwen, Zmd, nyballosulgniirkps, Ortohoops

2

: Trotsky,

3rd prod = instant replacement.

[Trotsky]

dgb this is not roflcopter you're playing with, this is a hydra. if you had any pro-town intentions and didn't just want to get a mislynch that you can claim to be based on a grudge, you would not base a whole case on the assumptions that 1. roflcopter would dominate the hydra to the point that every case we make is made exclusively by roflcopter, and 2 that since roflcopter has a brief history of tunneling on you as town and we have looked at other players we must be scum.

[PoketheAlpaca]

Now I repeat my question that I have asked three times in this thread already, why is FrogDodge still alive? From the rules....

Serial Killer

You are an evil and calculating Serial Killer. Because you are so crafty, you are immune to kills other than your own.

[/color]

A&B lied or he did not! There was either a RB, Doc protect OR A&B told the truth and tried to kill FrogDodge but could not cause he is a SK. I'll get back to this...

<snip>
Unless we can figure out if A&B was lying... I see no other reason he is not dead. I kinda would like to stick with Occams Razor.

@FrogDodge - Seriousley Dude, why were you so confident A&B lied or you had protection... you wrote in response (paraphrased) to his claim, "Dont count us out until we are dead". You seemed positive you would not be SK'd!

And actually, I don't give a shit how I look. If I look like lurker-scum not wanting to do anything, fine. But that's not what I'm doing. I do believe Trotsky and Ortohoops to be scum. More Trotsky obviously. And I strongly believe FD to be SK because of his confidence in surviving A&B's kill. Surviving the kill itself is a long shot. How many times do you see a claimed vig's kill stopped by a doc or RB? And if the action was sent before A&B claimed their target, why would FD be protected? It's still plausible that A&B was RB'd, but that's about it. I think either they were RB'd or FD is SK.

As you can see from this post -
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 46#1630346
All doc protections and roleblocks are sent pre-phase. If someone protected Frogdodge during phase 1, they sent the action before the game started. If someone blocked A&B during phase 1, they sent the action before the game started. Night0 actions are usually sent based on expected player styles and backgrounds. I don't see A&B as Blocker magnets or Frogdodge as protection magnets based on general background and playstyle. This the only thing that holds weight against Frogdodge.

The other part of the case on Frogdodge holds no weight. I believe The first sentence of this post here is getting taken out of context.

You guys can start digging our grave once we're dead, and not a minute before, OK?

Since our mortality is on the line here, I feel it prudent to share every last thought I have on this game before our untimely demise. Raging Wishbone is quite inefficient at what they're trying to do. Yosariwen is way more downkey than I would expect. Look at them after our death. Sex club is a tad bit quieter than I would like. PTA and ZMD need to die already, especially PTA. Incamnito is one of the people that the town needs to start striving to act like. For someone saying so much about activity and whatnot, Ortohoops is extremely quiet. Death and Trotsky need to start speaking up. I have also heard absolutely nothing from nyball.

As a bit of fair warning, you are all letting this game go by the wayside and die. This game is not about lurking continually and just lackadaisically commenting when you get the chance. Start talking, all of you, or we're going to regret it down the road. You're all so fearful of action phases that you're letting it get to you.

FD has been fairly town throughout this game. And for the moment I believe I trust that read more than the chances they weren't save. So I have no desire for any player to claim any role actions involved with FD at this time. Don't want to put power roles out there this early in the game. Only if we do reach a point where there is a mass claim and no one really is responcible for Frog dodge's continued survival, should we bust out the noose post haste.

_________________

I'm suspicious of Trotsky for the way he posted fluff early, but isn't posting much at all now. Go ahead and call that hypocritical, but I really read Trotsky as scum right now.

I admit that Trotsky seemed more active earlier in the game, but I don't seem to recall Trotsky posting fluff exactly. Where do you believe he did this while early in the game?

_________________

@ortohoops,

My point against Zaphod back then was that plum's post about A&B seemed unesscessary. After all, at that point A&B was already dead. My gut told me that the only thing her coments directly about A&B could possibly serve to do would be to convince others that the Zaphod pair found A&B scummy.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 19#1661219

Plums recent post has actual content but the A&B wagon has ended with A&B dead. Saying you find A&B scummy now does absolutly nothing. Its just a pathetic attempt to look like everybody else. "Oh look at me I'm catching up and I found A&B scummy too! We're just like the rest of the town, I swear!" Then you should have said that earlier when it mattered not wasted the threads times/posts with it now!

And trying to convince others you think/act like them and or show off your views/success of getting rid of scum that late, is something I normally see scum do regardles of whether the dead scum was an SK or a mafioso.

We think Zaphod is scum. They have agreedwith others/wagon jumped at times convienant to when others have been pressuring them.

Totally non-specific. The other point was that the fact they didn't vote an SK isn't inherently scummy for the same reasons PTA seemed to be suggesting, because they cannot be scum with the SK.

Huh? Zaphod did vote A&B. And I didn't mean to imply voting or not voting an SK is the element that makes somebody scum.

Any player can lynch an SK

I said any player can vote an sk. An SK has no buddies so both town and mafia would have reasons for voting someone they percieved as an SK and or scummy at that point. And analyzing reasons of any wagon no mater when the reasons appear can be a good way to find scum. Trotsky was the only one who specificly once thought Zaphod had some conection to A&B, see?

"Trotsky" what's your case on Zaphod?

she ignored a superior a+b case in favor of a trotsky vote based on half our complete meta and ignored the subsequent question about it multiple times.

thing is, this was far more valid when we thought a+b was mafia.

and frog dodging is not going to die. it has been 3 days since a+b claimed to have submitted the kill, and the limit is 30 hours. so ragingwishbone, you can stop pretending to care now.

_________________

Zaphod has now presented this defence:

I still believe that the general attack on me for my analysis of A&B &c. is weak and the fact tells more about my general playstyle than my alignment.

I already explained, at this point, why an A&B section got included in that post: I needed to do major catching-up because I'd only had time to focus on the Alpha game, did a major reread-with-analysis post, and saw no compelling reason to excise the A&B section that I'd already written. I was attempting only to let the Town see all my thoughts and notes as I read through the game; when catching up, this is normal for me, and says nothing besides Plum playing as she usually does; quite null. Why did/do you see only self-congratulatory, apparently scummy emphasis on good work done by my other head and the other players?

To clarify, are you saying you often review dead players OR is that generally meant in the playstyle context of just joining a game? Can you present a link to a completed game where you have done that sort of thing before?

_________________

What do you think of it in comparison to your will to go after post wasters. Do you believe that alone was a valid reason to go after A&B compared to the other reasons out there?

I have no idea what her opinion was there and can't ask her currently. What's the relevance anyway, we can't be scumbuddies busing the SK. And the little non-aggressive question in 211 to Yoswen by PTA is like pretending to still be a bit critical of your scumbuddy, exactly the same way J-Dodge played in Alpha.

Not sure what your last sentence refers to since J-dodge was not scum in Alpha. The relevance is I'm wondering exactly how you are disagreeing or agreeing with her views. Basically the validity at which you view your hydra partners opinions can tell me if her or your opinions are faked or forced. I looked at some stuff Tajo did and I'm asking you to do the same in the context of your own partner.

But, I am aware that some of what "we" have posted in this game may be construed as fluff, which was why I was willing to forgive it from the other hydras, in the early game, up to a point. However PTA's constant diatribes about "fluff posting" become beyond hypocritical when they make not one but two

completely

useless posts on page 2, followed by a scummy PBPA. Of course then comes the unprompted unvote, and now a contrived OMGUS.

The above should also serve as a comprehensive reply to J-Scope as far as I'm aware.

...
Your case on Zaphod, quite frankly, sucks.

It seems to be based on the idea that not voting scum = scum.

Huh?^ Where you getting that part from?

However we know this is not the case when A&B is a flipped SK. It also contains an extremely vague and unsubstantiated assertion about their overall playing style (bolded), and another (hypocritical) reference to "time/post" wasting.

Vote: PokeTheAlpaca

OMGUS is voting you just because you are voting me. We both gave reasons as to why we are voting each other. If no reason was given then it would be OMGUS. I gave a reason. The way you word it suggests that any time too players vote each other it is OMGUS. To prove that I was OMGUS you must prove my reasons were BS and I was voting you out of spite. Instead you said I was right about the way that first post could be fluff. So how was I BSing? I wasn't

Check the time stamp and words of these posts from our game
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 63#1642063
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 08#1645208
and compare them to these posts from the alpha game
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 65#1642065
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 06#1645206
Tajo was clearly under the wrong impression that these games were the same. He has to treat and learn from both of them and he should now have learned from these mistakes with recent postings not being of the same manner.

You do know your hydra's own alignment after all so you should be able to get some idea behind their actions in comparison with yours. This point is also in relation to how some of hoopla's post could be seen as fluff while you went on the accuse others of fluff.

_________________

Back to RW. After maybe trying not to lynch A&B so darn quickly, or something, whatever it was, he votes them to L-1 (they'd been there on and off for about that whole page) for 'being scum'. That's about the most explicit he got there.

What part of lynching an sk do you not like? Please enlighten me with your wisdom as I would really ike to know why it was not good we lynched A&B!

I don't believe you were exactly so certain yourself. You did seem to waver some on the prospect of A&B being an SK.
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 27#1653027
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 71#1654871
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 07#1655207
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 11#1656411
Also a few people brought up your actions of putting A&B at L-1 pre-claim, in the context of scum can feezibly kill someone not on the wagon at that time. The daykill of a player there would then shorten the max number of players in the game aswell as what would be needed for a majority lynch. This could then cause any player at L-1 to become auto-lynched since all votes on the wagon would not disapear. the only vote that would disappear would be that of the player not on the wagon. In general putting a player at L-1 carries some risk for the town. Risk mafia wouldn't need to worry about especially since A&B wasn't mafia.

_________________

ATM I am still most content with lynching Ortohoops. I don't really see ZMD's case on Trotsky and I'm not sure of Tajo's townish read on RW. Gonna ask him about that and what he thinks about Zaphod in detail when I get the chance. For now ortohoops would at least be PF's answers to this:

Whom I'm willing to lynch now (update it as you post):
1. Zaphod Beeblebrox (1) Ojando
3. Zmd (1) Ojando
4. Trotsky(3): nyballosulgniirkps, ZMD, Zaphod Beeblebrox
5. Ojando (1): ZMD
7. Yosariwen (1): nybaloosulgniirkps
8. Ortohoops (1): ZMD
10. PoketheAlpaca (0):
11. nyballosulgniirkps (0):
12. Raging Wishbone (2): Zaphod Beeblebrox, Ojando
13. J-Scope (0):
14. Frog Dodging (0):

[Ortohoops]

Yoswen: points in 154 were:

- we attacked them for being hypocritical with word-wasting, they replied that "we" had wasted words, although clearly these posts were Hoops and the later posts were mine, and Hoops' posts were clearly never on the same level as some of the completely contentless posts they'd made.
- They were tunneling on Hoops for making "beginning game banter" posts while totally neglecting the fact other players, including themselves, had made

more

posts with even

less

content i.e. nothing.
- Lame attack on Zaphod because it relied on the theory they were reticent to vote an SK and only announced suspicions after the fact. However this does not function as a scum-tell because Zaphod cannot be scum with the SK, so this is a bizarre point to make.

4. To the best of my undestanding, the reason you suspect me because you think I'm scum with PTA who was trying to protect him. Is that still correct? Is your reason for suspecting me completly dependent on PTA's alignment?

Yes, my main reasons for suspecting you are the way you've responded to his wagon and tried to redirect votes from it. Didn't I say that earlier?

(Yes; PTA is no longer on the list, and Ortohoops now is on the list.)

Being brazen about your scummy/omgusy change in preferences does not make it less scummy.

- The reason we didn't comment on shaft.ed earlier was that I was rushing to get a post through before the prod and skimread the game. I noticed shaft.ed's death but didn't take into account its implications. I concede when I re-read his posts his biggest target of tunneling appears to be PTA (over multiple posts too, see e.g. 175 and 200), which makes PTA very unlikely to be scum with him. By extension, my case for you being PTA's scumbuddy and defending him less water. It's still quite possible one or the other is SK/mafia but this does put a dampener on my theory.

It's also worth noting that there's also a possible link between Ortohoops and my other main suspect, since Ortohoops attacked me for attacking RW.

How is it "worth noting"? Anyone reading the thread could see that we'd defended Raging Wishbone (note we have been less than impressed with more recent posts). It's not like this is original or insightful analysis. Did you actually have an issue with the content of our defence?

And I have no qualms with saying that I thought sex w/ was probably

the

towniest player, possible alongside Frog up until the point he died.

I am currently going to vote for Trotsky. I have seen little contribution from them from late, beyond getting into a locked you-or-me battle with DGB, which to be honest I would expect from either of them were they of either alignment. However that's all Trotsky has given us to work with recently. roflcopter has done little to and seems to have in fact made little effort to dispel perceptions of his deviation from his meta. This is exactly what got him vigged in the other game. Surely if he was town he would be consciously trying to deviate from his known anti-town meta, or at least be playing in a fashion approaching his normal aggressive self. Just saying "the mechanic is making us lurk" isn't a good retort- this applies of the posts he

is

actually making also. I know he has openly stated he doesn't consider himself as good a player as mafia as he is as town (but haven't seen his scum games except a bit of one where he was an SK- he won/got nominated for a scummy for it), which may explain why he is making little effort to emulate his usual aggressive play.

I'm also up for some Trotsky pressure. Trotsky, could you please address my earlier question with your next post.

Sounds like the way you'd treat your scumbuddy. As Frog points out he seems to be shaft.ed's "second" or at least top 3 suspect in 200 also, which is the typical placement of a scumbuddy.

Whom I'm willing to lynch now (update it as you post):
1. Zaphod Beeblebrox (1) Ojando
3. Zmd (2) Ojando, Ortohoops
4. Trotsky(4): nyballosulgniirkps, ZMD, Zaphod Beeblebrox, Ortohoops
5. Ojando (1): ZMD
7. Yosariwen (1): nybaloosulgniirkps
8. Ortohoops (1): ZMD
10. PoketheAlpaca (0):
11. nyballosulgniirkps (0):
12. Raging Wishbone (2): Zaphod Beeblebrox, Ojando
13. J-Scope (0):
14. Frog Dodging (0):

I have added our name to Zmd and Trotsky. I am not getting helpful/town vibes from Zmd. I am aware his being scum may well be mutually exclusive with Trotsky.

The votecount is strangely at odds with this list also.

Unvote
Vote: Trotsky

[nyballosulgniirkps]

i haven't completely gone through all of the monster posts that have been made recently, but i will be getting together with my other head and doing that soon. a cursory glance up the page after this shaft.elvis death gives me a warm fuzzy about zaphod's chances of being a scumpartner.

And have you concluded anything from this, yet?

The votecount is strangely at odds with this list also.

I believe this is because of the hydra situation. The discrepancy on our part is largely due to a lack of communication. For that reason I'll update the list. Top two candidates on my list right now are Raging Wishbone and ZMD. Both made the ridiculous attempt of painting Frog Dodging as possessing confidence that they wouldn't die by taking their post out of content. This is more a fault on Raging Wishbone's part, though, as he was the one who actually posted the quote. Top that off with his ridiculous attempt to draw a parallel between Yosarian's defense of Nuwen here and in the Alpha game, and I'd gladly see him die today.

Whom I'm willing to lynch now (update it as you post):
1. Zaphod Beeblebrox (1) Ojando
3. Zmd (2) Ojando, Ortohoops, nybaloosulgniirkps
4. Trotsky(4): nyballosulgniirkps, ZMD, Zaphod Beeblebrox, Ortohoops
5. Ojando (1): ZMD
7. Yosariwen (1): nybaloosulgniirkps(?)
8. Ortohoops (1): ZMD
10. PoketheAlpaca (0):
11. nyballosulgniirkps (0):
12. Raging Wishbone (2): Zaphod Beeblebrox, Ojando, nyballosulgniirkps
13. J-Scope (0):
14. Frog Dodging (0):

[Raging Wishbone]

Have you not yet been scarred enough by trying to clear people based on chat logs?

Trotsky is probably scum.

Not much, again it is the discussion it generates that is intriguing. The end of alpha sucked, but the im logs was what caught yos/nuw last game. I am far from declaring them town this game, but there im log was very convincing! By the way great case against Trotsky.

And you want potential role information about us why exactly? And you still think, despite what I pointed out in Alpha, and what J-Scope has acknowledged, that we can't just fake the logs if we want to anyway by editing our posts and wiping out the edit stamp??? This insistence on the chat logs is not only relatively unsportsmanlike, it has already actively hurt the town in one game.

Err, same rules apply you can blot out any role information just like you did in alpha, however considering you have had a week to fabricate a fake log as J-Scope so kindly pointed out, I just don't see much of a futher conversation that will enlightne anyone... and for the record, it is ABSOLUTELT sportsmanlike and ethical, the most important thing is the discussions it generates not the logs themselves which is the "spirit of the game".

I beat the prod, please be wary with using them in future considering the nature of this game.

Please post every 72 hours as per the rules of the game.

No, I posted the QT’s because you asked me to and for no other reason. I was perfectly content with warning the group about how I won as scum in alpha so as to prevent scum from winning that way.

The QT posts 5-8 was not for K-Scope to read. They never existed until I made them to trick you. And I showed you the real posts 1-4 which I am saying are the real deal.

I did not screencap my original QuickTopic to prove my innocence to anyone. I realize that what I am now calling real could very well be another fake. You have to judge for yourself based on my complete game here.

I am not completely convinced, however I buy enough of what you wrote to...

UNVOTE: J-Scope

I did not have a conversation with K-Scope that lasted 8 posts. Look at the timestamps and see where they correlate to the Alpha game. I’ll do it here:

Post 1 and 2 were made on April 28. Post 3 was made on April 29; Post 4 was made on April 30. So posts 1-4 correspond to action phase 1 and 2.

Posts 5 through 8 took place on May 12 which corresponds to our 3 person LyLo. It was during that action phase that I wrote those four posts and used photoshop to composite the content of Posts 5-8 onto the time stamps of Posts 1-4.

I feel like you are making this out to be a scumtell in our Beta game, when it clearly is only a tell for the Alpha game.

Yeah, well qt aside, you are slipping under the radar once again like alpha. So Kscope returned right before you won Alpha, are you telling me you had no communication with him/her?

He raised a very valid point in that inter-hydra communication can be faked. He pulled it off successfully in the Alpha game. Why

wouldn't

he show that it can be done? His posting of the quicktopic also does not invalidate the potential use of the posting of conversations. If scum are going to fake their communications, that is where they will slip up, as we have already seen with Yosariwen in the Alpha game.

So you said two entirely differnt things there genius. So do we try to catch scum that way because it is where they will slip or do we not because it can be faked. You can't have it both ways.

That doesn't sound like confidence at all. If you read the entirety oftheir post, you can see they spat out what they were thinking because,

as they said

, their mortality was on the line.

You say potatoe, I say potato.

Are you kidding me? You're just going to jump to the conclusion that your suspected 'explanation' for Frog Dodge's survival is the correct one, simply because no role has yet to come forward and claim responsibility?

Die, scum.

You first Genius.

If I make a vote with conviction and it is nothing more than scum hunting... I'll let ya know.

I don't believe you were exactly so certain yourself. You did seem to waver some on the prospect of A&B being an SK.http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 27#1653027
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 71#1654871
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 07#1655207
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 11#1656411
Also a few people brought up your actions of putting A&B at L-1 pre-claim, in the context of scum can feezibly kill someone not on the wagon at that time. The daykill of a player there would then shorten the max number of players in the game aswell as what would be needed for a majority lynch. This could then cause any player at L-1 to become auto-lynched since all votes on the wagon would not disapear. the only vote that would disappear would be that of the player not on the wagon. In general putting a player at L-1 carries some risk for the town. Risk mafia wouldn't need to worry about especially since A&B wasn't mafia.

It was a hard vote/choice and me and RR went back and forth a tad, however in the end we made the right vote. We did the same thing on Yos/nuw in Alpha... We just werent 100% sure and agreed it was the right call, so we (I) was wishy-washy, lol.

As far as voting I am not sure who to vote for, I would like to hear a few repionses. My faith in Trotsky (Rofl) is wavering a bit and the whole exchange between they and Zaphod was kinda strange. I do believe one of them is scum. I still dont trust J-Scope, but other then that I am not sure who else I suspect....

If RR does not return within the next 72 hours I will vote for one of the three.

[Sando]

Ortohoops:

It's still quite possible one or the other is SK/mafia but this does put a dampener on my theory.

This seems like you just spent like 3 paragraphs saying why you thought Yos and PtA were linked, but now that you don't think that PtA is Shaft.ed's buddy, somehow they're both still suspects yet not linked, this doesn't make sense to me. Am I missing something here?

Just saying "the mechanic is making us lurk" isn't a good retort- this applies of the posts he is actually making also.

This is regarding Trotsky. I, however, agree with Trotsky. Compared to my usual gameplay I'm lurking in this game and it’s a real challenge to post content, part of that is inexperience, part of that is game-mechanic (post count = kills) and part of it is the hydra mechanic. All of it means that a meta based on 1 side of the hydra is completely useless, and a meta based on the hydra in totality is based of 1(?) other game.

You're right that we can't let it be used as an excuse to lurk, but I think everyone is aware that this mechanic makes everyone more lurky than usual. Merely saying 'you're lurking more than your town meta' shouldn't carry much weight I feel.

Zaphod:

Caught the SK; excellent. Now I need to go back for more tells and analysis. Grrr Smile.

I did not gloat personally and I did not try to ascribe the catching of the SK to myself or otherwise emphasize my part in it.

The top quote looks awfully like gloating. If you’re saying that you personally didn’t gloat but your other half may have, then I’m not going to accept that as an explanation. What 1 half does reflects on the other half.

and saw no compelling reason to excise the A&B section that I'd already written

There was a compelling reason to leave the A&B stuff in there, you'd have had no post without it, nearly half of that post was attacking and even questioning A&B, then gloating about his death.

Why did/do you see only self-congratulatory, apparently scummy emphasis on good work done by my other head and the other players?

You're making out that I'm attacking you for killing the SK, I'm not, and you know very well that I'm not. I'm attacking you for trying to make sure that everyone in the game was well aware that you were intricately involved in killing the SK. Killing the SK is townie, but basically saying 'Hey look guys, I killed the SK, guys, guys, come look, quick!!!' is scummy in my view. And while I think it's a scummy action, I don't think it's damning. The reason that I've continued to attack you over it is that I'm not satisfied with your responses.

[Zmd]

Because no doc would ever protect the hydra composed of two of the four most experienced (at that point in time) players in the game, who between them have 8 and a half thousand in game posts, have been nominated for four scummies and who are generally well respected and established members of this site. That would just be

silly

.

You'd done nothing at the time that was worthy of protection. I guess it can't be ruled out that you were protected, but why were you so confident in surviving the kill?

Not liking zmd's attack on us at all. Also, their defense of themselves amounts to "Well, why shouldn't we play like this?" which isn't really a defense of anything, it's just rhetorical bluster.

Yeah, I think you are SK, so I must be scum, right?

And what am I supposed to defend to anyway? Laziness regarding Walls-O-Text? That's the case on me, right? I'm lazy and suspicious of you and therefore scum.

There was an SK which means no vig. The only way I am dying is if scum kills me or an SK who has no vig fakeclaim kills me. I don't see why I'd be a threat to scum unless I am dead-on on the scum team. Even then, I'm probably not their best target. So no, I'm not "prepared" to die.

This was referring to swsewc. I apologies for the lack of clarity.
[/quote]

Hmm. Ok. Didn't seem to be, but thanks for the clarification.

zmdposting is bad. the whole of his post 224 is defensive all the way through and without even trying to refute the points against him.

Show me a specific point that I haven't tried to refute. You won't find one.

Zmd - yeah, that was me, actually. I don't know if you forgot that I was just recently scum with you, and I didn't mention that I was skimming some Little Italy games, saw you in LYLO, and knew you were the scum . . . and you've been scum in a fair amount of the games we've played together. But anyway, you know.

Oh, I know you've seen me as scum plenty. I just don't think you've seen enough of me as town. (By the way, if you mean the other lovers game as the one you saw, I know that I was obvscum the minute I didn't hammer Amished. Fortunately, Sajin, DDD, and Amished didn't think so. XD)

I admit that Trotsky seemed more active earlier in the game, but I don't seem to recall Trotsky posting fluff exactly. Where do you believe he did this while early in the game?

Looking back, it's not really fluff. Just seemed that he was taking advantage of the RVS with the amount of posts he used. His exchange with Zaphod since I last posted is a similar situation.

Both made the ridiculous attempt of painting Frog Dodging as possessing confidence that they wouldn't die by taking their post out of content.

And how is it ridiculous and out of context (I assume you meant context and not content)?

[Frog Dodging]

Because no doc would ever protect the hydra composed of two of the four most experienced (at that point in time) players in the game, who between them have 8 and a half thousand in game posts, have been nominated for four scummies and who are generally well respected and established members of this site. That would just be

silly

.

You'd done nothing at the time that was worthy of protection. I guess it can't be ruled out that you were protected, but why were you so confident in surviving the kill?

When doctor's sent their protection in, guess what. Neither had anyone else at all. The game hadn't started yet. Even if that weren't true, though, numerous players had already stated that they thought we were protown. You point falls down on every possible level. The real problem, however, seems to be that you fail at reading. Go read the post where the quote came from. Then tell me that it looks like we thought we would survive.

Not liking zmd's attack on us at all. Also, their defense of themselves amounts to "Well, why shouldn't we play like this?" which isn't really a defense of anything, it's just rhetorical bluster.

Yeah, I think you are SK, so I must be scum, right?

And what am I supposed to defend to anyway? Laziness regarding Walls-O-Text? That's the case on me, right? I'm lazy and suspicious of you and therefore scum.

Yeah, no. Stop being stupid. The case on you is based on numerous factors - you are lurkish. You fail at giving any useful input - all your posts are either refuting arguments against you or posts like iso 3 - where you say nothing of worth or of use to anyone. You avoid talking about any of the major suspects or wagons in this game - you are trying to avoid the limelight, trying to avoid giving anything away. You have focused on trotsky as a convenient excuse to not talk about A&B, PTA, Yosiwen/Ortohoops, Raging Wishbone... we don't even know what you think about, well, anything. Ortohoops you think is scum because of

Fuuny how Hoopla/Ort calls Poke's wagon opportunistic and then jumps on the new popular wagon.

and that's it. A&B you "didn't see the case on". You've not mentioned the PTA wagon. You've not mentioned SWSWC coming up scum. When you are so focused, off in your own little world, like you are, my gut screams scum. There's no need to scumhunt if you already know who is scum, right?

Laziness about posting walls of text.

Honestly.

zmdposting is bad. the whole of his post 224 is defensive all the way through and without even trying to refute the points against him.

Show me a specific point that I haven't tried to refute. You won't find one.

Unfortunately, "So basically my choices for scum are unlikely to be lynched, so I should mindlessly follow everyone else? Riiiiight." is not a refutation of anything. It's at once mischaracterising my point (that you are failing to talk about anyone else, that you are failing to give proper reasons, etc etc.) I mean, there are several things you could do - you could try pushing your cases (give reasons, attack the player, etc), you could compromise and move to more successful wagons. AT THE VERY LEAST YOU SHOULD PAY ATTENTION TO THE GAME RATHER THAN JUST SOMEHOW DECIDE THAT BECAUSE YOU HAVE A LIST OF SUSPECTS THIS MAKES YOU IMMUNE TO CRITICISM. NEWSFLASH: IT HELPS TOWN WHEN YOU COMMENT ON STUFF.

I admit that Trotsky seemed more active earlier in the game, but I don't seem to recall Trotsky posting fluff exactly. Where do you believe he did this while early in the game?

Looking back, it's not really fluff. Just seemed that he was taking advantage of the RVS with the amount of posts he used. His exchange with Zaphod since I last posted is a similar situation.

I agree with your point about Trotsky's exchange with DGB. Not so much about the early game stuff.

Both made the ridiculous attempt of painting Frog Dodging as possessing confidence that they wouldn't die by taking their post out of content.

And how is it ridiculous and out of context (I assume you meant context and not content)?

Please see above.

In other news, since no one can see the obvscum in front of us,

Unvote Vote: Trotsky

. Better wagon than RW.

[ortolan]

This seems like you just spent like 3 paragraphs saying why you thought Yos and PtA were linked, but now that you don't think that PtA is Shaft.ed's buddy, somehow they're both still suspects yet not linked, this doesn't make sense to me. Am I missing something here?

No. PTA is still independently scummy. This makes him more likely to be SK. I am also not ruling out Yoswen being scum with shaft.ed and defending a townie or SK inadvertently.

This is regarding Trotsky. I, however, agree with Trotsky. Compared to my usual gameplay I'm lurking in this game and it’s a real challenge to post content, part of that is inexperience, part of that is game-mechanic (post count = kills) and part of it is the hydra mechanic. All of it means that a meta based on 1 side of the hydra is completely useless, and a meta based on the hydra in totality is based of 1(?) other game.

You're right that we can't let it be used as an excuse to lurk, but I think everyone is aware that this mechanic makes everyone more lurky than usual. Merely saying 'you're lurking more than your town meta' shouldn't carry much weight I feel.

This is unfortunately not what we said. I am suspicious of him for the posts he has made, not just lurking, because he/they as a hydra are not making any attempt to deviate from the play which got them vigged in Alpha. Total fence-sitting and locking into "you or me" with DGB is definitely not pro-town play.

I don't understand Zmd's point about Frog. IIRC after lynching the SK they were concerned about dying and said:

You guys can start digging our grave once we're dead, and not a minute before, OK?

Since our mortality is on the line here, I feel it prudent to share every last thought I have on this game before our untimely demise.

If they were NK-immune SK, why is it optimal play to draw attention to the fact they are about to die, thereby making the fact they fail to

more

conspicuous?

[J-Scope]

Whom I'm willing to lynch now (update it as you post):
1. Zaphod Beeblebrox (2) Ojando, J-Scope
3. Zmd (4) Ojando, Ortohoops, nybaloosulgniirkps, J-Scope
4. Trotsky(4): nyballosulgniirkps, ZMD, Zaphod Beeblebrox, Ortohoops
5. Ojando (1): ZMD
7. Yosariwen (1): nybaloosulgniirkps(?)
8. Ortohoops (1): ZMD
10. PoketheAlpaca (0):
11. nyballosulgniirkps (0):
12. Raging Wishbone (4): Zaphod Beeblebrox, Ojando, nyballosulgniirkps, J-Scope
13. J-Scope (0):
14. Frog Dodging (0):

You're not tunneling on me to the point of insanity. Therefore you are scum. Or maybe you'll start tunneling now, to fit that part of your town-meta more closely. And thus this game will become another hell whose end I will pray for.

If it "doesn't seem like me," well, too bad. It is me.

I don’t understand this and I don’t really believe it based on how Zaphod previously reacted to Trotsky’s accusations on them. If they didn’t think Trotsky was insanely tunneling, then it looks like they were faking outrage on them. Either way it looks like a lie to boost themselves against Trotsky.

I’d also like a ZMD lynch because of how they’ve ignored larger wagons in favor of making small points about inactives. I don't understand their case on Ojando, even though I'm guessing its their third choice and probably just a gut feeling.

I'm not so hot about a Trotsky lynch. They haven't been pro-active or pro-town but I think Zaphod and ZMD are better choices and they don't pair good with Trots.

So Kscope returned right before you won Alpha, are you telling me you had no communication with him/her?

I PM’ed him the other day and asked if he was going to start playing but I haven’t heard back from him yet.

[Yosariwen]

(Yes; PTA is no longer on the list, and Ortohoops now is on the list.)

Being brazen about your scummy/omgusy change in preferences does not make it less scummy.

Excuse me? How was that "scummy" or "omgusy"?

I was suspicious that the PTA wagon was a scum supported wagon, and as it turns out, I was right. Shaft.ed's attacks on PTA don't look like a bus to me either. So I now think that PTA is not mafia, so he moved off the list.

On the other hand, for reasons that I explained, between your over-reaction to me not liking the PTA wagon, and the way (as I explained) it feels like you and Shaft.ed were "working in tandom" for much of day 1, I now find you quite suspicious.

How is any of that "a scummy or omgusy change in preference"??

- The reason we didn't comment on shaft.ed earlier was that I was rushing to get a post through before the prod and skimread the game. I noticed shaft.ed's death but didn't take into account its implications. I concede when I re-read his posts his biggest target of tunneling appears to be PTA (over multiple posts too, see e.g. 175 and 200), which makes PTA very unlikely to be scum with him. By extension, my case for you being PTA's scumbuddy and defending him less water. It's still quite possible one or the other is SK/mafia but this does put a dampener on my theory.

(shrug) PTA could still in theory be a SK, sure. That's why I've kept saying he looks "not mafia" to me.

But, yeah, this is what I was getting at, and I thought it was scummy that you didn't react this way earlier. In fact, I still do; I'm glad you realized what I mean now, but it's interesting that you didn't until I pointed out exactally why you NOT realizing that seemed lke a scum tell.

It's also worth noting that there's also a possible link between Ortohoops and my other main suspect, since Ortohoops attacked me for attacking RW.

How is it "worth noting"? Anyone reading the thread could see that we'd defended Raging Wishbone (note we have been less than impressed with more recent posts). It's not like this is original or insightful analysis. Did you actually have an issue with the content of our defence?

Yeah; like I said, I voted RW for reasons I believe were reasonable, and your reaction seemed to be to become extremly angry and agressive towards me for not joining the PTA wagon and for voting someone who wasn't PTA. The post seemed like an emotional over-reaction to my post, except I don't understand why my attack on RW would make you emotional or angry. One possible expliation could be a link between you and RW.

And I have no qualms with saying that I thought sex w/ was probably

the

towniest player, possible alongside Frog up until the point he died.

(nods) I don't have any problem with that; he did look really pro-town, and ironically that could be why the SK killed him.

[nyballosulgniirkps]

So you said two entirely differnt things there genius. So do we try to catch scum that way because it is where they will slip or do we not because it can be faked. You can't have it both ways.

You don't use the absence of scummy inter-hydra communication as a reason for writing someone off as town, because it can be faked, but instead look for glitches where editing may have occurred. It's not having it both ways. It's using common sense. It's obvious chats can be faked, and one would have to be pretty dense to post any incriminating conversations without editing them, unless they are unable to. What J-Scope said doesn't really change that.

And how is it ridiculous and out of context (I assume you meant context and not content)?

The issue of context isn't so much of a problem in your case as it was in Raging Wishbone's, because (I think) you didn't do any quoting. However, here's what you originally said(bolding is mine):

And I strongly believe FD to be SK because of his confidence in surviving A&B's kill. Surviving the kill itself is a long shot. How many times do you see a claimed vig's kill stopped by a doc or RB? And if the action was sent before A&B claimed their target, why would FD be protected? It's still plausible that A&B was RB'd, but that's about it. I think either they were RB'd or FD is SK.

Here's what he actually said:

You guys can start digging our grave once we're dead, and not a minute before, OK?

Since our mortality is on the line here, I feel it prudent to share every last thought I have on this game before our untimely demise. Raging Wishbone is quite inefficient at what they're trying to do. Yosariwen is way more downkey than I would expect. Look at them after our death. Sex club is a tad bit quieter than I would like. PTA and ZMD need to die already, especially PTA. Incamnito is one of the people that the town needs to start striving to act like. For someone saying so much about activity and whatnot, Ortohoops is extremely quiet. Death and Trotsky need to start speaking up. I have also heard absolutely nothing from nyball.

The entire post considered, it seems pretty obvious there was no certainty.

[Raging Wishbone]

*stretches and yawns*

Work, work, work, lol....

Whom I'm willing to lynch now (update it as you post):
1. Zaphod Beeblebrox (2) Ojando, J-Scope, Raging Wishbone
3. Zmd (4) Ojando, Ortohoops, nybaloosulgniirkps, J-Scope
4. Trotsky(4): nyballosulgniirkps, ZMD, Zaphod Beeblebrox, Ortohoops, Raging Wishbone
5. Ojando (1): ZMD
7. Yosariwen (1): nybaloosulgniirkps(?)
8. Ortohoops (1): ZMD
10. PoketheAlpaca (0):
11. nyballosulgniirkps (0):
12. Raging Wishbone (4): Zaphod Beeblebrox, Ojando, nyballosulgniirkps, J-Scope
13. J-Scope (0): Raging Wishbone
14. Frog Dodging (0)

I PM’ed him the other day and asked if he was going to start playing but I haven’t heard back from him yet.

Please post a screencap of your post/pm to K-Scope and are YOU really going to ask me to believe that K-Scope returned from "Fanastasia" after WEEKS and WEEKS of being absent and posted with out sending you a single word to ask you or at least have enough faith in his partner to send a pm and say "hey whats new in this game who do you think is scum?" So your last comment indicates you contacted him? But he posted without even sending you a pm?

You don't use the absence of scummy inter-hydra communication as a reason for writing someone off as town, because it can be faked, but instead look for glitches where editing may have occurred. It's not having it both ways. It's using common sense. It's obvious chats can be faked, and one would have to be pretty dense to post any incriminating conversations without editing them, unless they are unable to. What J-Scope said doesn't really change that.

Agreed and disagreed.... Of course ONE should look for edits, that's how me and RR (among others) nailed Nuwen/yos last game. Are you telling me you read thier IM chats from this game and found an edit problem? If not... after all they wrote why should we not think they be town? Why question them?

Dude, You are still saying two completely different things. The difference between using common sense and instincts is a fine line which I don't think you understand. What J-Scope has written absolutely changes that and the fact that you do not have a problem with it makes you either stupid town or scum!

MOD: can we please get a prod on Trotsky, Zaphod and anyone else who has not posted in 72 hours!

Also,

I do like the idea of a mod kill

for this game for anyone who gets 4 prods. As long as the TOWN can control that kill. In otherwords, if we all as a town decide to lynch a lurker cause they dont post every 72 hours and reach 4 prods cane we have a discussion about if before you modkill them Santa Claus?

I ain't gonna post a wall of text. It has been stated over and over, but there was something really wrong between Trotsky and Zaphod...one of those two plus jscope is scum.

Vote: Trotsky

If RR wants to changes this vote tomorrow fine, I trust his judgement... but between the three scummiest, I do believe he is the best lynch.

[J-Scope]

@RW: I did get a response from him and it's a good enough excuse for me to believe it.

Why do you want a screencap of this? Why not just a bit o' text? I'll screencap, of course, but I'd much rather lynch you.

Mod: Can we get a vote count?

I don't like the modkill idea. This game shouldn't be too hard to catch up in if we can find good replacements.

Frog Dodge and Pokey Alpaca should add to the list of lynch candidates just to make it semi-official, and we should wrap up this lynch before the clock strikes 12.

[Raging Wishbone]

@RW: I did get a response from him and it's a good enough excuse for me to believe it.

Why do you want a screencap of this? Why not just a bit o' text? I'll screencap, of course, but I'd much rather lynch you.

Mod: Can we get a vote count?

I don't like the modkill idea. This game shouldn't be too hard to catch up in if we can find good replacements.

Frog Dodge and Pokey Alpaca should add to the list of lynch candidates just to make it semi-official, and we should wrap up this lynch before the clock strikes 12.

UNVOTE: VOTE JSCOPE

Dude, I have little doubt anymore you are scum. Getting the rest of the Town to see it will be tough, but my vote lays on you Bro. Here is your problem and here is something EVERY OTHER TOWNIE HAS DONE and needs to ask themself? Isn't the first thing you do when returning from VLA to ask your PARTNERS opinion on the game?

Dude, you stated YOU contacted him and HE did NOT contact you (what is he like the Rebel Yell kid? - RR has sent me three posts in the last six days to cacth up once his finals are over!), but K_SCOPE, well he posted without any regard to your thoiughts here in beta or Alpha...

Going back and reading everyones posts again; yos/nuw, pokealpca, nyballs, trotsky, zaphod, ect are all using some form of comunication to chat. They keep mentioning it in their posts... Ortohoops and Zmd aint mentioning it much but I aint really worried about it at this point...

ZMD is teh same zmd from last game and he was town.... You are the exactly the same as in Alpha when you were scum. I dont think Hoops has been back since Alpha and since you made it perfectly clear Screencaps can be faked...why bother posting one? Perhaps cause your scum buddy SexEd told you (or in other words rewarded your comment with praise) it was the way to denegrate and subsequently win any conversatiosn regarding im/qts/pm, ect...?

I am going to post this caveat again, if RR wants to change my vote fine, however J-Scope is the best lynch due to his arugments on daytalk and his associations with sexed! Using daytalks is not the best scum hunting technique however it does seem to have unerved a few people including sexEd and JScope.

AGAIN, nice screenaps but YOUR problem with posting that K-Scope "is moving" is that he posted in Beta before that after a month hiatus, as well as posting in Alpha! The first thing he should have done is send you a pm to asky you to catch him up to speed...actually whether scum or Town.

Epic FAIL, imo!

VOTE: JSCOPE

[Ojando]

This is unfortunately not what we said. I am suspicious of him for the posts he has made, not just lurking, because he/they as a hydra are not making any attempt to deviate from the play which got them vigged in Alpha. Total fence-sitting and locking into "you or me" with DGB is definitely not pro-town play.

It is what you said, it’s just not the only thing you said. Just because I’m saying that your point regarding Trotsky lurking is a bad one, doesn’t mean that all of your points regarding Trotsky are invalid.

Also, I do like the idea of a mod kill for this game for anyone who gets 4 prods. As long as the TOWN can control that kill.

Town would always control the kill in this instance. If someone was at 3 prods and hadn’t posted for 72 hours the mod will only prod them a 4th time if requested to do so in the thread (rule 10). It would act basically as a hammer at that point. Please correct me if I’m wrong on this theory.

Here is your problem and here is something EVERY OTHER TOWNIE HAS DONE and needs to ask themself? Isn't the first thing you do when returning from VLA to ask your PARTNERS opinion on the game?

No, I wouldn’t, that’s stupid. One advantage you have when coming back from a break is seeing the game in a bigger picture. I find that I tend to notice things not making sense from many pages back because I’m reading the whole thread or a large part in a short period of time, and I’m not looking for anything specific, so my mind is open to anything.

Asking my partners opinion is just destroying any advantage that being VLA and rereading brings. I’d send my partner a run-down post of everyone in the game and ask my partner to comment on it. The advantage of having a partner is that we can bounce ideas off each other, it’s not to get their ideas so I can basically copy them.

When coming back from VLA (in a non-hydra game) you don't just look at the votecount and vote for the person with the highest vote count. You have your own opinions etc, you reread and post your opinions. It's no different here.

however J-Scope is the best lynch due to his arugments on daytalk and his associations with sexed!

Elaborate please, I’ve reread the last 3-4 pages and can’t find any accusation from you or anyone else regarding this association between J-Scope and sexed.

[Raging Wishbone]

Town would always control the kill in this instance. If someone was at 3 prods and hadn’t posted for 72 hours the mod will only prod them a 4th time if requested to do so in the thread (rule 10). It would act basically as a hammer at that point. Please correct me if I’m wrong on this theory.

Good, I hope you are right although why write a statement saying "THIS IS FACT" and end your run on sentence with "PLEASE TEL ME IF I AM WRONG" As long as Town controls the kill who cares, dont write something as fact if you are not sure please.

No, I wouldn’t, that’s stupid. One advantage you have when coming back from a break is seeing the game in a bigger picture. I find that I tend to notice things not making sense from many pages back because I’m reading the whole thread or a large part in a short period of time, and I’m not looking for anything specific, so my mind is open to anything.

Asking my partners opinion is just destroying any advantage that being VLA and rereading brings.

I’d send my partner a run-down post of everyone in the game and ask my partner to comment on it.

The advantage of having a partner is that we can bounce ideas off each other, it’s not to get their ideas so I can basically copy them.

When coming back from VLA (in a non-hydra game) you don't just look at the votecount and vote for the person with the highest vote count. You have your own opinions etc, you reread and post your opinions. It's no different here.

MOST, Excellent comment, why did Jscope not send his partner a run down of post as it is what YOU stated you would do? Tis exaclty what I did to RR when he returned from VLA as I am sure several others did with their partners as well. Brother you wrote the entire point I was trying to make in a much more articulate manner! Thanks... lol

Why is JSCOPE not doing what I, you, and I am sure many others have done with their partner?

Elaborate please, I’ve reread the last 3-4 pages and can’t find any accusation from you or anyone else regarding this association between J-Scope and sexed.

what I thought everyone did not want Wall'O'Text...

*points up"

Please reread my last five or six comments and the subsequent replies which I wrote above.. if you dont want to lynch him, then please nevermind and lynch who ever you want. Just tell me you are certain who the scum or sk is and I may follow you but at this point I see no better lynch.

[Raging Wishbone]

@Ojanda...sorry genius in the future I will not expect you to read and repost every important screencap of the game! Err, then again please dont ak me to POST something YOU already have or SHOULD have read!

J-Scope

Thanks for sharing the tidbit about falsifying logs. This is townie points for J-Scope. Although if scum, he might just not feel like being bothered to create fake logs However, what do you like about Trotsky's Zaphod case? There's nothing there.

Zaph

I obviously agree with your point against Yos, but what about the rest of the game. More input please.

Ojando

Ojando is feeling off to me. I can't put a finger on it, need more content.

... that is the answer to your other question. Again, you nailed what Townies think and how they interact with their partner on the head in my opinion....

[J-Scope]

Here is your problem and here is something EVERY OTHER TOWNIE HAS DONE and needs to ask themself? Isn't the first thing you do when returning from VLA to ask your PARTNERS opinion on the game?

It’s my secret shame that K-Scope and I are having marital problems. I wanted to go to counseling with him because he just won’t communicate with me! Then last week I saw him hanging around another forum. I think he’s cheating on me.

Actually I have no idea why K-Scope did or didn’t do something. I have never played a game with him before to my knowledge. How well is your experience with K-Scope?

Who has played with Kaleidoscope before and can tell me if he’s the time of player to leave for a month then come back and post without telling me?

The first thing he should have done is send you a pm to asky you to catch him up to speed...actually whether scum or Town.

So this tell isn’t even a scum tell? Are you saying that because K-Scope is a lousy partner I should die? I’m actually quite comfortable playing by myself and that was an option at the start of these two games. It doesn’t ruin my game experience. Does it ruin anyone else’s?

J-Scope is the best lynch due to his arugments on daytalk and his associations with sexed!

If that’s how you make associations (you claimed plural but I only see one post) with scum, then you should have looked at the rest of shaft.ed’s post.

RW For the love of God...see above. I'm getting a townish read off of RW for what it matters.

J-Scope Thanks for sharing the tidbit about falsifying logs. This is townie points for J-Scope. Although if scum, he might just not feel like being bothered to create fake logs Wink However, what do you like about Trotsky's Zaphod case? There's nothing there.

In both cases he told us a little thing he didn’t like, with your quote pyramids and my deceptive capabilities, but he also completed the read as more town than scum.

What is the difference between him giving me townie points and him giving you a townie read? You’re trying to create a double standard on a tell that does not have enough data points. Unless you want to come clean and reveal we’re both scum with shaft.ed.

[Raging Wishbone]

]It’s my secret shame that K-Scope and I are having marital problems. I wanted to go to counseling with him because he just won’t communicate with me! Then last week I saw him hanging around another forum. I think he’s cheating on me.

Gah a secret shame...no boo hoo.... *wipes lil Jahudo's eyes* Answer the FUCKING question kid! Actually, please allow me to rephrase teh qusetion since you did not understand or tried to manipulate the context..not content!

Me and Ojanda agreed on the first thing we would do when we returned from vla with our partner. Please read it again cause you seem lost and are trying to be a manipulative lil brat like in Alpha... Dude is tht your pic you looks like a wanna be band member for Modern English or the Cure... gah try harder there too.

]Actually I have no idea why K-Scope did or didn’t do something. I have never played a game with him before to my knowledge. How well is your experience with K-Scope?

Gosh darn not even close to yours...isnt that more reason whether scum or town to communicate with one's hydra? Aint town and scum equally lazy and shouldnt town and scum equally ask for information... Nothing else is worth a reply....

Neither you or K-Scope wanted any information! You all just want the easy lynch...Damn jumping on bandwagons

JSCOPE

and stuf aint helping your twon creds...tuinnel vision much Genius?.

[PoketheAlpaca]

PokerFace is on V/LA. Im updating this so you can see where we currently are. I so hate wallotexts and this game is dangerously crossing the annoying line (sorry Adel, I bet you didnt predict this would happen). Ill give it a try tonight.

Even more, we (PF and me) were having some kind of discussion about our suspicions but I think its pretty clear to us that Orto is our top suspect. When PF returns we will likely update this list.

Whom I'm willing to lynch now (update it as you post):
1. Zaphod Beeblebrox (2) Ojando, J-Scope
3. Zmd (4) Ojando, Ortohoops, nybaloosulgniirkps, J-Scope
4. Trotsky(4): nyballosulgniirkps, ZMD, Zaphod Beeblebrox, Ortohoops
5. Ojando (1): ZMD
7. Yosariwen (1): nybaloosulgniirkps(?)
8. Ortohoops (1): ZMD, PoketheAlpaca
10. PoketheAlpaca (0):
11. nyballosulgniirkps (0):
12. Raging Wishbone (4): Zaphod Beeblebrox, Ojando, nyballosulgniirkps, J-Scope
13. J-Scope (0):
14. Frog Dodging (0):

Ill read Trotsky, Zmd and RR cases more detailely later.

[Raging Wishbone]

This game is too hard, and trying to scum hunt and goad someone into a conversation ain't working; J-scope I was hoping you would bite, lol Bro... I kinda think you are scum but can't vote ya again....

UNVOTE: JSCOPE

PokerFace is on V/LA. Im updating this so you can see where we currently are. I so hate wallotexts and this game is dangerously crossing the annoying line (sorry Adel, I bet you didnt predict this would happen). Ill give it a try tonight.

Even more, we (PF and me) were having some kind of discussion about our suspicions but I think its pretty clear to us that Orto is our top suspect. When PF returns we will likely update this list.

Whom I'm willing to lynch now (update it as you post):
1. Zaphod Beeblebrox (2) Ojando, J-Scope, Raging Wishbone
3. Zmd (4) Ojando, Ortohoops, nybaloosulgniirkps, J-Scope
4. Trotsky(4): nyballosulgniirkps, ZMD, Zaphod Beeblebrox, Ortohoops, Raging Wishbone
5. Ojando (1): ZMD
7. Yosariwen (1): nybaloosulgniirkps(?)
8. Ortohoops (1): ZMD, PoketheAlpaca
10. PoketheAlpaca (0):
11. nyballosulgniirkps (0):
12. Raging Wishbone (4): Zaphod Beeblebrox, Ojando, nyballosulgniirkps, J-Scope
13. J-Scope (0): RagingWishbone
14. Frog Dodging (0):

Ill read Trotsky, Zmd and RR cases more detailely later.

Added to list....but I really have no idea who is scum! If anybody else has figured out the mechanic of this game please enlighten us all.