Mini 803 - Pale Moon Risin' (Over!)

[camn]

but ehh, do you think that is a tell on camn? Trying to be seem active early in the game?

On the contrary . . i am actually trying to

BE

active early in the game, despite my RL biz.
I think jotting down my thoughts on everyone is helpful. Both for me, looking back during the game,... and in the event of my death.


...who ARE you, anyway? Wtf?
Are you Mykonian's alt?
Ha ha. you ARE! Been getting meta-killed lately?

[mykonian]

charter, as I remembered, lynched me partly based on how I play as scum... another thing that I hope won't happen again.

and I don't think that account is going to be used a lot... in the freeking first post, how bad can it get?

[ZazieR]

Little Brother issues.
He causes me a lot of update time >.<

post to come tomorrow.

[camn]

and I don't think that account is going to be used a lot... in the freeking first post, how bad can it get?

Hahaha!

I learned recently that the move is to set the Board-Color-preferences to a different scheme for your alt. Like Sepia for one, blue for the other. Then you can remember better.

Not that I have an alt.

BTW, you creating an alt today is scummy.
Guilty conscience? Something to hide? I think so.

[mykonian]

BTW, you creating an alt today is scummy.
Guilty conscience? Something to hide? I think so.

yeah, yeah. It could have been if I was in this game with it. Further, like I said, you won't see it a lot. (though there are things that are worse then this)

[Kmd4390]

KMD totally forgetting he was suspecting Mykonian.

Um. I haven't been suspicious of Myko at all in this game.

7.

camn

ObvTown:)
Wait.. ONly 9 posts? I thought

she

had been more prolific in this game, too!!

You actually had to look at your posts to come to the conclusion that you are obvtown?

grrr. I don't think I will make it that easy again for you.

but ehh, do you think that is a tell on camn? Trying to be seem active early in the game?

Charter, stop using alts to push your points.

I learned recently that the move is to set the Board-Color-preferences to a different scheme for your alt. Like Sepia for one, blue for the other. Then you can remember better.

I use Watched Topics, so I don't have that problem. I only watch games that that account is playing in.

So Zilla is still scum. The case on Myko is still crap. Zilla is trying way too hard to defend with meta now. Charter and Camn are both matching the meta I have for them as town. Afat needs to post or die. That is all.

[Zilla]

KMD, you disagree on the cause of my behavior in those games? What exactly is this meta case that you agree with?

Also, I read that you were suspicious of Mykonian for saying he couldn't be bussing. Now you forgot about that too?

I'm not liking KMD at all this game.

[Kmd4390]

Zilla, your meta is far too inconsistent for me to draw conclusions from it.

What am I agreeing with? (Sorry, I worked overnight, so I'm not exactly all here and probably won't be all summer.)

I wasn't saying I was suspicious of Myko. I told him that it was a bad defense to be saying he couldn't be bussing. Any vote can easily be bussing. That doesn't mean I think he is scum, it just means that was a bad defense.

[mykonian]

Also, I read that you were suspicious of Mykonian for saying he couldn't be bussing. Now you forgot about that too?

you people miss the point:

why would town make up an unlikely story? why did VP baltar have to link me and zilla together? It makes no sense!

[Kmd4390]

why would town make up an unlikely story? why did VP baltar have to link me and zilla together? It makes no sense!

Maybe he honestly thinks that you and Zilla are both scum?

[mykonian]

why would town make up an unlikely story? why did VP baltar have to link me and zilla together? It makes no sense!

Maybe he honestly thinks that you and Zilla are both scum?

but that would require a story that is not based on facts, assumes a lot, and by that, is nothing more then that: a story. A construction, that makes he can pressure us both. That he can keep consistent.

[Kmd4390]

A story or a theory. There's nothing wrong with theories.

[mykonian]

A story or a theory. There's nothing wrong with theories.

true. Plus that it gives an insight in the mind of the person who thought the theory up.

[charter]

Charter, stop using alts to push your points. Laughing

Stop making alts that I have to constantly hunt down.

Charter and Camn are both matching the meta I have for them as town.

What did you think of Camn's post where she mentions everybody? Is this post part of the Camntownmeta?

What did you think of Camn's post where she mentions everybody? Asking this to everyone.

[Kmd4390]

Stop making alts that I have to constantly hunt down.

Pfffffffftttt. You won't find me.

What did you think of Camn's post where she mentions everybody? Is this post part of the Camntownmeta?

Yeah. She does that. Sometimes it ends up just being a lurker callout in the same format, but more of "X is lurking, Y needs to die for being lurkerscum, Z is definitely scum for not lurking". It is usually pretty vague though.

And she's posting opinions just to avoid lurking. She hates lurkers, so I can see why she wouldn't want to become one regardless of alignment.

I don't see Camn as scummy yet, but it's still early.

[VP Baltar]

Catching up post...apologies in advance for stream of conciousness:

Also, to vote within 3 pages on meta, I don't know, don't feel confortable with it[/qutoe]
So, for clarity, you were suspicious of Zilla based on meta as early as page 3?

I dont think myk is overly suspicious.

In post 72 you ask him a series of questions which at least implies you found him slightly suspicious, however, you never follow up on his answers. I take it you were completely satisfied with his replies, correct?

The fact that he built a complete case against mykonian under the premonition that Zilla is scum is creepy. VP Baltar, do you see mykonian as scummy independent of his interactions of Zilla? Your case only seems to work under the assumption that Zilla is definitely scum here, and we haven't had an alignment flip yet sooo, yeah.

*plays eerie organ music*
I've been suspicious of mykonian since early in the game when he was testing the waters of my "wagon" early in the game. His complete reluctance to vote even after the game was well out of the RVS is scummy.

Then we have Zilla acting independently scummy. So, I see two people acting scummy and then I looked at their reasons for voting each other. I think if you really examine them you will see how shaky their reasons are when there really are better reasons for voting each of them. My feelings on mykon are not dependent on Zilla, but I think they could theoretically be scum together.
(Just for reference, I think my case points more to Zilla bussing mykon if they're both scum and mykon being hesitant to bus Zilla)

Plus, I don't think it's going to help the game to rush the Zilla wagon anyway.

mykonian's vote on Zilla strikes me as extremely scummy.

Ah, so see, you do agree with me.

The fact that so much of the thread seems to be ignoring this really creeps me out.

*continues dissonant organ music*

Note things like "I'm pretty sure" and "you could have been simply."

That's how you disregard the point I made against you? I don't even know what you are trying to imply by saying this. Try again.

Aww, I had a quote block prepared and everything.

He didn't say anything else other than "I support the Zilla case."

Well, I guess you got me there....oh, wait, you completely ignored the questions that were put to you in my last post:

Ok, but like Kmd said, if that is what you are doing why were you so willing to let Porkens go? If your goal is to catch scum, then there isn't much point in doing it if you are just going to say that it's only 25% serious. Also, before you set your "trap" did you consider how much flak you were going to get for fakeclaiming double voter? Do you feel that the response against you has been much more than you anticipated?

This is a scum semantics argument, and it looks like you're trying to back out of your commitment to it now. The point is that at least some part of you thought Porkens was seriously rolefishing. Due to it only being 25% serious, do you think it should be disregarded as a point against you?

HUGE FOS: VP Baltar

It almost makes me reconsider my mykonian vote.

I take it mykon is scummier than me since that is where your vote remains. Why do you consider him a better place to put your vote?

VP's condition that Mykonian is only scum if I'm a scumbuddy

Please quote where I stated this condition.

Nothing about his peanut-gallery style of commenting without actual investigation of his own? I personally don't like that he's just offering commentary and analysis without trying to procure information himself. This is scummy.

What? Isn't analysis of posts what one does while scum hunting? Show me some significant quotes where I am just offering commentary and nothing else? What is your definition of procuring information? I'm starting to see where Charter is coming from when he says that you are leaving a lot of blanks in your accusations for people to fill in themselves?

I'm not liking KMD at all this game.

Is there anyone in this game that has questioned you who you haven't immediately OMGUSed?

[Zilla]

Hey Charter! We have more backpedallers!

Yes, my vote on Mykonian is WIFOM because it's based on my own alignment and reading into what he's thinking about it, but that option is available to me. It's really sound reasoning from my point of view. I can see that it's a lot weaker for people who don't know my alignment, and while my reason works for me, it only works for me.

Zilla, your meta is far too inconsistent for me to draw conclusions from it.

What am I agreeing with? (Sorry, I worked overnight, so I'm not exactly all here and probably won't be all summer.)

If you're saying my defense of my meta that you need to actually look at the context of the game is weak, I'm assuming you agree that my meta "implicates" me somehow. You weren't being specific, so I asked why you thought my meta impicated me.

You're saying I'm trying to defend with meta, as if I'm relying on that as my defense. Not at all. I'm defending the ATTACK based on my meta, by using my meta. That's as far as I'm using it. Everything else, I answer for with information in this thread. Mykonian says that I'm acting like I did in Merrim, so I'm pointing out how I also play like that as town, if there even is an "also."

Mykonian, what is the similarity between this game and Merrim that you're seeing?

[Incognito]

Nice. Camn's prob-town. I agree her reads don't really reveal much (since she pretty much stated that a bunch of people are 'no reads') but her listing and general tone this game strikes me as town-ish.

I don't think mykonian is scum, because his reason for voting Zilla was crap, and it would be dumb to vote your partner like that if you were scum.

You admit that mykonian's reason for voting Zilla was crap and yet you still come to the conclusion that he's likely not scum? Like

seriously?

Is that all you found weird?

No, I also found the tone of his response discomforting. He didn't seem interested in attempting to figure out why VP Baltar would connect you with him -- he just said traditional scum teams wouldn't bus this early. If he was genuinely suspicious of you, I'd think he'd be leerier of people trying to connect him to you -- he showed no indication of that.

I wanted to be sure I was reading where myk was going correctly. With different answers I would of responded differently. When he confirmed that Zilla was his top pick before I made it known who my top pick was, it made me more comfortable with him.

Okay... what do you think of the reasoning he used to eventually join the Zilla-wagon?


mykonian: the problem I have with your vote is pretty much from page 3 you attempted to give off this impression that you were using a good amount of caution before deciding to vote for Zilla and then you eventually voted her after spending only 30 minutes looking through a few of her town games (in which she pretty much replaced into all of them which makes the comparison pretty close to null) and then you used a

single

game where she was scum to come to the conclusion that she's probably scum here because, in your opinion, her play here resembles her play in that game. I just don't think the level of caution you've tried to exude is genuine.

The other thing that bothers me is your self-proclaimed stance on meta back in the one game I have experience playing with you in (Newbie 708 where you were town) doesn't match your actions here in this current game which makes me believe even further that your supposed caution isn't genuine:

you are a professional mafia player? asking other people what they know about people you play with. Wow. anyway, this is probably one of the only games where I was town where you can get something out. I have played 1 themed game as town too, but that play was weird. there must be another game I played as town. I forgot. Fact is, the majority of the games I played were as scum.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9573

When exactly did you become a meta-lover?

[Zilla]

Missed following up on implicating backpedallers.

I wasn't saying I was suspicious of Myko. I told him that it was a bad defense to be saying he couldn't be bussing. Any vote can easily be bussing. That doesn't mean I think he is scum, it just means that was a bad defense.

Why are you coaching Mykonian? Why would you overlook a poor defense? If you follow your logic, you would be suspicious of Mykonian on the grounds that he claimed the WIFOM of bussing being impossible. Saying you're not suspicious of him is trying to avoid the flak you'd catch for backing out of being suspicious about him. I don't see town justifying that they weren't suspicious of somebody like this.

Now, a weak case in that on this page, KMD again coaches Mykonian over his attack on VP Baltar. I don't like how Mykonian did a 180 because KMD gave his accusation a different label, between "story" and "theory." The exchange of posts 160-162 is odd to say the least. Why does calling it a theory make his 160 statements suddenly void, and why does that offer "insight" any more than a story would?

To VP:

That's how you disregard the point I made against you? I don't even know what you are trying to imply by saying this. Try again.

First, I already answered this with "spaghetti strategy is not scum strategy." Try again.

Second, I'm saying you don't really believe it, but you believe you can sell it, so you're going to try to push it. If you really believed it to be the case, it would be on terms of whether or not it is possible. You laid out that "It could be that you're being scummy, so I believe it." Why couldn't it be a town move?

Well, I guess you got me there....oh, wait, you completely ignored the questions that were put to you in my last post:

Talk about out of context. I was talking about the context of before your case for a Mykonian/Zilla pair, talking about how you assumed I must be scum in order to build your case on Mykonian. I was specifically looking for what you said about me that made me look like obvscum to the point that you built a case on Mykonian from the standpoint that I must be bussing him.

Also, I forgot to answer your question because I had a lot to cover in my post.

Ok, but like Kmd said, if that is what you are doing why were you so willing to let Porkens go? If your goal is to catch scum, then there isn't much point in doing it if you are just going to say that it's only 25% serious. Also, before you set your "trap" did you consider how much flak you were going to get for fakeclaiming double voter? Do you feel that the response against you has been much more than you anticipated?

I don't have a strong feeling about whether porkens is scum or noobish. So far, he's struck me as noobish, so I'm more willing to forgive him. Additionally, I knew my trap was weak sauce, and it was more meant to get us out of RVS with some kind of content to speculate on than to actually catch scum.

Did I consider getting flak, and was the response more than I bargained for? I thought I'd get attention. I also don't think the response is more than I bargained for because Llama was the only one to even really comment on it, the rest are apparently angry at me for voting Porkens on a weak premise (when we were transitioning, thanks to me, out of RVS, I should remind you, with a 75% joke vote). What I want to know is why you asked these questions.

[Porkens]

:blam:

[SpyreX]

Discussion was becoming very intense. People were on edge and the fear could cut like a knife.

Or, in this case, an arrow. A single arrow shooting from the darkness that pierces afatchic right through the heart.

Before any of you can even begin to adjust... something much more bizarre happens.

He starts to grow fur as he breathes her last.

afatchic, Forest Wolf Governor, has been pierced through the heart.

Votes on afatchic have been reset.

Kmd4390 (0):
Zazier (0):
Plum (0):
Llamafluff (0):
Porkens (0):
camn (0):
Mykonian (4): Incognito, Zilla, VP Baltar, camn
charter (0):
Incognito (0):

Zilla (5): Plum, Charter, LlamaFluff, Kmd4390, Mykonian

VP Baltar (0):

With 11 alive, it is 6 to lynch.

You are now at L-1

Deadline: Thursday June 11th 10:30 PST

[Incognito]

Mod:

camn's also voting mykonian.

It should be noted that the death of afatchic now places Zilla at L-1. afatchic-scum's posts:

Vote Incognito

Votes obvtown during random stage.

Ninja'd.

doublevote: afatchic

for the same reason as Llamafluff.

Only scum would wanna lynch two people right at the start!

Serious accusation towards Zilla dressed up as a joke.

Not much to analyze unfortunately but at least one scum is dead.

[Plum]

Unvote: Zilla

Now it's L-1, I'm not ready to have her there and am in the middle of preparing a reread post in which I was considering other cases anyhow.

[charter]

wtf just happened?

[Zilla]

And I still have VP questions to answer.

@ VP: OMGUS:

porkens and charter. I don't like porkens saying he likes the Zilla wagon, but I don't think he's scum for it. Again, I see newbie, not scum. Charter is just being super tunnel vision as usual, and is a null tell.

@ VP: Mykonian is scum only if Zilla is scum.

You never explicitly said this but it was implied that the lens you were looking at mykonian through was that of "I have to be bussing him." That was a premise that featured center stage in [url=http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 31#1699031]this post.[/quote]

@ VP: Why Mykonian (Why not VP)?

He hasn't done one thing I consider town, and a lot I consider scummy. Your scumminess is more circumstantial, and I can see town making the plays you've made.

@ VP: Peanut gallery.

Your entire case on Mykonian wasn't based on any research into facts, all speculation. You made no effort to obtain more information, instead you used all already existing information and put spin on it. This is an extension of the "You could have been simply" case. You're seeing what angle works best for you.

Now that you've been engaged, you're asking questions, but you're also needing to play a little defensively here. This reactionary style is more suited to scum.

You did ask questions, most of them regarding if Porkens was serious. It seems you never actually do anything with the information you get either...

And here's a gem!

This is a scum semantics argument, and it looks like you're trying to back out of your commitment to it now.

The point is that at least some part of you thought Porkens was seriously rolefishing.

Due to it only being 25% serious, do you think it should be disregarded as a point against you?

Counterpoint: How does seeing Porkens as rolefishing equate to being scum?

I move that the bolded is a giant scumslip. If he thought I was scum, he wouldn't say that the point of my case is that "I seriously thought Porkens was rolefishing." If he thought I was scum, it would have been "I was trying to frame Porkens for rolefishing."

Time to pull a charter.

Caught scum:
Mykonian
VP Baltar

Secondary targets:
LlamaFluff (worse if Mykonian comes up scum)
KMD (worse if Mykonian comes up scum)

I doubt we have 4. I'm more suspicious of Llama, but I was also totally suspicious of him in Family Guy and he ended up being town. I was still suspicious of him even after he claimed. KMD, on the other hand, even being considered suspect is a huge leap for me, so while I suspect Llama more, I'd say KMD has a higher chance of being scum.

LOOK FOR THIS POST IF/WHEN I FLIP.