Mini #682: C9++ (Game Over!)

[iamausername]

Welcome to the implausibly-named town of C9++! Unfortunately, this once peaceful community has been having a little organised crime problem lately, and it's up to you to stop it! Unless you

are

the organised crime problem, in which case it's up to you to pretend to stop it while actually continuing about your business. Either way, your omniscient narrator wishes you good luck in your endeavour.

The Players:

Alive (3/12)

germy, Backup Blocker - survived!
mykonian, Mason - survived!

Nightwolf

wolframnhart, Vanilla Townie - survived!

Dead (9/12)

springlullaby, Vanilla Townie - Lynched Day 1

Edify Scigatt

Natirasha, Mafia Roleblocker - Lynched Day 2

alvinz95

SilverPhoenix, Roleblocker - Killed Night 2

Artem

Shanba, Mafia Godfather - Lynched Day 3

ChuckNorris Ku_F

Wall-E, Vanilla Townie - Lynched Day 4

Kairyuu, Mason - Killed Night 4

CF Riot, Vanilla Townie - Lynched Day 5

afatchic

Scheherazade, Vanilla Townie - Lynched Day 6

sekinj, Mafia Goon - Lynched Day 7

Current Status:

Game Over!

[iamausername]

The Rules:

(mostly stolen from gorckat, with a few alterations)

1. Social Contract

*This is a game. I've done my best while setting it up to make it enjoyable for everyone. Fun is our first priority.

*I will do the following:
=treat this game as my MafiaScum priority, as a committment to the players
=post votecounts at least once per page whenever possible
=prod players w/o prompting
=answer questions as soon as possible

*I expect all players to do the following:
=have fun and play to win
=treat the game as a commitment to yourself, to the other players and to me
=not make personal attacks
=stay active per my activity policy
=bring concerns or problems to my attention as soon as possible
=if you believe I've made a mistake, please PM me and do not post it in the thread

2. Activity

*This game will have fixed deadlines (extensible only in extreme circumstances) and I expect players to actively participate.

*Deadlines are 3 weeks long. Nights will be ~72 hours long. All deadlines will expire at 7PM GMT.

*Players not posting for 72 hours will be prodded and must respond in the game thread within 24 hours, or risk being replaced. I will prod for inactivity three times. On the fourth instance of 72 hours without posts, or on failing to respond to a prod, I will start seeking a replacement, and if one is found before you respond, you will be replaced.

*If you see a player has not posted in thread for 72 hours and I have not announced a prod, please PM me. All prods are stated publicly.

*If you will be away and unable to post over 48 hours, please let me know. You may be replaced if I believe your absence will disrupt the game.

3. Votes and Lynches

*Lynches will only occur with a true majority of voters. Once a person has reached a majority, they are dead and unvoting them will not stop the lynch.

*If the deadline hits before anyone has been lynched, then no one will be lynched.

*Votes and unvotes must be bolded in the following format (

vote iamausername

,

unvote

). It is not necessary to unvote before making a new vote.

*Players may vote for no lynch to occur on any given day (

vote No Lynch

). A majority of votes for no lynch will end the day and no one will be lynched.

*Until I have counted the votes and posted the death scene and role reveal, all players including the lynchee may continue to post. Once I have posted a vote count indicating a player is lynched, they are dead and are not to post anything else at all, not even a "Bah!" post.

4. Other (but still important!) Stuff

*Do not post or quote directly from any PM or communication outside this thread between me and you or you and another player. Do so and I will modkill you. Don't even fake it. Put whatever you have to say in your own words. Bask in the irony of me saying this when, like, 90% of these rules are not in my own words.
*Modkills end the day.
*No hydras (more than one person playing a role with a shared account).
*Do not post in invisible/small text or otherwise attempt to hide the text of your posts.
*Do not edit your posts or the posts of others.
*Do not discuss this game with other players (whether in this game or not) outside of this thread, unless I have told you otherwise, until this game is completed.
*At my sole discretion I reserve the right to remove any player from the game and replace or modkill their role.
*If I've overlooked something and need to modify the rules to account for it, I will post a notice in the game thread and update this post.

[iamausername]

The Setup:

This game will be using the C9++ setup, a semi-open setup designed by the legendary mafiascum user Fiasco. Here is a quote of the original setup proposal:

C9++, Current Best Shot Edition

12 players. Night start. No unusual mechanics. (But setup can be adapted to changes in any of this.) Roles are selected as follows:

First, generate 7 letters from the following distribution:

50% T
15% C
10% D
10% V
10% M
5% B

Then turn the letters into roles using the following tables. Probabilities are for 0 letters, 1 letter, etc.

C = sane cop + 3 millers (millerhood is distributed randomly among non-cop, non-scum, non-child)
CC = sane cop
CCC = sane cop + insane cop
CCCC = sane cop + sane cop
CCCCC = sane cop + sane cop + insane cop
CCCCCC = sane cop + sane cop + sane cop

(32%, 40%, 21%, 6%, 1%, .1%, .007%)

D = doc
DD = doc + backup doc
DDD = doc + doc
DDDD = doc + doc + backup doc
DDDDD = doc + doc + doc

(48%, 37%, 12%, 2%, .3%, .02%)

V = vig
VV = vig + one-shot vig
VVV = vig + vig
VVVV = vig + vig + one-shot vig
VVVVV = vig + vig + vig

(48%, 37%, 12%, 2%, .3%, .02%)

M = innocent child
MM = 2 masons
MMM = 2 masons + innocent child
MMMM = 3 masons
MMMMM = 2 masons + 2 masons

(48%, 37%, 12%, 2%, .3%, .02%)

B = blocker
BB = blocker + backup blocker
BBB = blocker + blocker
BBBB = blocker + blocker + backup blocker

(70%, 26%, 4%, .4%, .02%)

TTTTTTT = mafia goon + mafia godfather
TTTTTT = mafia goon + mafia godfather + serial killer (DI, BI)
TTTTT = mafia goon + mafia goon + mafia godfather
TTTT = mafia goon + mafia goon + mafia godfather + serial killer (DI, BI, KI)
TTT = mafia goon + mafia blocker + mafia godfather
TT = mafia goon + mafia blocker + mafia godfather + serial killer (DI, BI, CI, KI)
T = mafia spy + mafia blocker + mafia godfather
0 = mafia spy + mafia blocker + mafia godfather + serial killer (DI, BI, CI, KI, SI, RB)

(.8%, 5%, 16%, 27%, 27%, 16%, 5%, .8%; exactly 50% of all games have a serial killer)

Mafia GF appears to cops as a townie. Mafia Spy learns one targeted player's role type each night (T/C/D/V/M/B). (The SK can tell the mod how he wants to appear to the Spy; if the Spy investigates the SK, the SK is notified.)

DI = each kill bypasses single doc protect (but not more)
BI = bypasses single roleblock attempt each night (but not more)
KI = survives one kill attempt each night (but not more)
CI = appears to cops as a townie
SI = appears to mafia spy as desired
RB = has a roleblock ability usable once

No role can target itself.

All kills are indistinguishable.

The mafia and SK know their own abilities. Mafia and SK abilities, cop sanity, and millerhood are not revealed on death.

Last team standing wins. If everyone dies, SK wins or mafia and town draw.

I will be running the setup exactly as shown here, with one exception:

in the event of a setup generated with a single C, there will be a randomly generated number of millers between one and three, rather than a definite three as originally proposed

.

[iamausername]

The Roles:

The following are all the role PMs that may appear in this game.

You are the greatest power role of them all, the

Vanilla Townie

! You get to put all your efforts into trying to find scum honestly, without having to worry about hiding your role! Aren't you lucky?

During the day, you have a vote. During the night, you have a well-earned rest.

You win when all threats to the town are eliminated, and at least one town-aligned player survives.

You're a

Cop

. You have a weakness for donuts, and an uncanny ability to detect evildoers. But it's a bit of a slow process, so you can only do it once per night. And sometimes those long, lonely nights leave you questioning your sanity.

During the day, you have a vote. During the night, you may send me the name of another living player you wish to investigate, and you will receive a result of "Guilty" or "Innocent". There is a possibility that you are insane, in which case, these results will be reversed.

You win when all threats to the town are eliminated, and at least one town-aligned player survives.

You're a

Doctor

. As a finely trained medical professional, you are able to heal fatal wounds so thoroughly that both you and the injured person will forget that they were ever wounded in the first place.

During the day, you have a vote. During the night, you may send me the name of another living player you wish to protect, and you will attempt to prevent any attempts on their life.

You win when all threats to the town are eliminated, and at least one town-aligned player survives.

You're a

Nurse

. You have just as much medical training as the doctor(s) in this town, but you're just so scared of messing up that you can't bring yourself to actually put it into practice. However, should a doctor be killed, the cheesy inspirational music will strike up, and you will accept your true calling.

During the day, you have a vote. During the night, you can't do anything yet. I'll keep you posted.

You win when all threats to the town are eliminated, and at least one town-aligned player survives.

You're a

Vigilante

. You've decided that daily lynchings just aren't good enough if you really want to clean this town up. Organised voting is all well and good, but sometimes, you just have to take a baseball bat to a guy's head.

During the day, you have a vote. During the night, you may send me the name of another living player, and attempt to kill them.

You win when all threats to the town are eliminated, and at least one town-aligned player survives.

You're a

One-Shot Vigilante

. You've decided that daily lynchings just aren't good enough if you really want to clean this town up. Organised voting is all well and good, but sometimes, you just have to take a baseball bat to a guy's head. But, uh, only once. Anything more than that would just be

barbaric

.

During the day, you have a vote. During the night, if you haven't already used your power, you may send me the name of another living player, and attempt to kill them.

You win when all threats to the town are eliminated, and at least one town-aligned player survives.

You're just a plucky little

Innocent Child

. But you've cunningly disguised yourself as a grown-up, somehow, so you can participate in the lynch mob. Your parents must be so proud. When the time comes, though, you might find you want to remove this disguise. I'm sure they'll still let you string up those scums.

During the day, you have a vote. At any time, day or night, you may PM me, requesting that your disguise be removed, and I will confirm your role to all in the thread.

You win when all threats to the town are eliminated, and at least one town-aligned player survives.

You're a

Mason

, along with [NAME(S)], who you trust absolutely. It's nice to have friends you can rely on, isn't it?

During the day, you have a vote. During the night, your mason group may communicate privately using this link: [QUICKTOPIC].

You win when all threats to the town are eliminated, and at least one town-aligned player survives.

You are... no better than you should be. A person of the night. A

Roleblocker

. You can do some amazing things, and keep a person occupied until the early hours.

During the day, you have a vote. During the night, you may send me the name of another living player. If that person attempts any night action, you will try to prevent them from carrying it out.

You win when all threats to the town are eliminated, and at least one town-aligned player survives.

You're a

Backup Blocker

. You have just as much, uh, roleblocking training as the... roleblocker(s) in this town, but you're just so scared of messing up that you can't bring yourself to actually put it into practice. However, should a roleblocker be killed, the cheesy inspirational music will strike up, and you will accept your true calling.

During the day, you have a vote. During the night, you can't do anything yet. I'll keep you posted.

You win when all threats to the town are eliminated, and at least one town-aligned player survives.

Besides Cop and Innocent Child, any of the above may also receive:

Oh, and you're also a

Miller

. Sane cops will find you guilty if they investigate you. Sorry about that.

---

You're a keen environmentalist, and have decided that the only way to save the planet that you love is to end all human life. In other words, you're a

Serial Killer

. Good luck!

During the day, you have a vote. During the night, you

must

send me the name of another living player (if you miss the deadline, your target will be randomly selected). You will attempt to kill them.

In addition, you have the following abilities to help you on your way:

• Each kill you make will bypass a single doc protect (but not more).
  Each kill you make will bypass a single roleblock attempt (but not more).
  [You will survive one attempt on your life each night (but not more).
  You will appear innocent to sane cops.
  You may appear to the mafia spy as which ever type (T, C, D, V, M or B) of town role you wish.
  You have a one shot roleblocking ability.]

You win when everyone else is dead. Even if you're dead too.

Abilities listed in [square brackets] may not be present.

---

You're a simple

Mafia Goon

. Killin' is fun!

Your partners in crime are [NAME], who is a [Godfather/Roleblocker/Goon], and [NAME] who is a [Godfather/Roleblocker/Goon].

[

or

: Your sole partner in crime is [NAME], who is a Godfather.]

During the day, you have a vote. During the night, your mafia group may communicate privately using this link: [QUICKTOPIC]. One of you may send me the name of another living player, and attempt to kill them.

You win when the only survivors are part of your mafia group, or when nothing can prevent the same.

You're a simple

Mafia Godfather

. Killin' is fun! Commandin' others to kill might be even more fun! Being able to fool the pigs is the most fun of all.

Your partners in crime are [NAME], who is a [Spy/Roleblocker/Goon], and [NAME] who is a [Spy/Roleblocker/Goon].

[

or

: Your sole partner in crime is [NAME], who is a Goon.]

During the day, you have a vote. During the night, you will appear to sane cops as innocent, and your mafia group may communicate privately using this link: [QUICKTOPIC]. One of you may send me the name of another living player, and attempt to kill them.

You win when the only survivors are part of your mafia group, or when nothing can prevent the same.

You're a simple

Mafia Roleblocker

. Killin' is fun! Whorin' is also fun.

Your partners in crime are [NAME], who is a [Godfather/Spy/Goon], and [NAME] who is a [Godfather/Spy/Goon].

During the day, you have a vote. During the night, your mafia group may communicate privately using this link: [QUICKTOPIC]. One of you may send me the name of another living player, and attempt to kill them.

In addition, if you are not the one to perform the kill, you may send me the name of another living player. If that person attempts any night action, you will try to prevent them from carrying it out.

You win when the only survivors are part of your mafia group, or when nothing can prevent the same.

You're an incredibly complex

Mafia Spy

. You have

layers

, man! You never meant to turn to organised crime, you just fell in with the wrong crowd, and now you're in it, you don't know how to get out. And since you have no choice about the path your life has taken, you might as well enjoy it, right? After all, killin' is fun!

Your partners in crime are [NAME], who is a Godfather, and [NAME] who is a Roleblocker.

During the day, you have a vote. During the night, your mafia group may communicate privately using this link: [QUICKTOPIC]. One of you may send me the name of another living player, and attempt to kill them.

In addition, if you are not the one to perform the kill, you may send me the name of another living player. I will tell you what type of role that player has.

You win when the only survivors are part of your mafia group, or when nothing can prevent the same.

[iamausername]

You guys are fast! 75% of the confirms are in, which means Day One is go!

Deadline set for Thursday 23rd October, 19:00 GMT.

With 12 alive, it will take 7 votes to lynch.

[Kairyuu]

vote: afatchic

for stalking me from Newbie 661. You were scum then so you

must

be scum now.

[sekinj]

I wanted to be first to post

[germy]

Allow me to introduce myself.

Germy, here, with one mafiascum newbie game under my belt, although I've played extensively on other sites. I'm very talkative, sometimes irrationally argumentative, nitpicky, and known for crazy gambits as both town and mafia.

And I have an absolute blast.


I have never played a mafia game with this type of semi-open setup before, and it's my first time seeing living in the town of "C9++" so to speak. It's interesting to see that we can derive some probablities based on our own roles.

With that said, I would like to get the ball rolling.

• I am Town.
  
• I am not a vanilla townie.
  
• I am not a miller.
  
• I am in a position in which I can reveal a portion of the game structure to the Town without revealing too much about my role itself.

I will not reveal my role, but it does guarantee the existence of another, similar role. We have one of the following situations:

DD, DDDD, VV, VVVV, MM, MMM, MMMM, MMMMM, BB, or BBBB

. To clarify further, I am one of the following roles: nurse, one-shot vig, mason, or backup blocker. I am not at this time claiming which.

Which means I know the following information about the game setup that I would like to share with the Town:

• We have a three-person mafia.
  
• If we have a serial killer, then they have
  at least
  the DI, BI, and KI abilities.
  
• I believe it's
  likely
  , though I'm not sure, that we have a mafia blocker.

The mafia already knows their own makeup, so I'm hoping that this insight will help the Town.

I've narrowed down some of the possible role distributions for everyone, but I hope not in a way that benefits the mafia all that much, and benefits the Town more.


My

suggestions

for play throughout the game:

• Any claimed cop should list in the same post each of their investigations and their results, for every previous Night. We will need as much of this information as possible, invaluable especially in the end-game.
  
• I believe all millers should claim millerhood right away. Although the variable number of millers makes this less useful, I think it is still important to know this as soon as possible in the game. More than three miller-claims and we already have a lying mafia member, more than two miller claims guarantees we have no insane cops.
  
• I believe if any other "secondary roles" like mine exist (ie, backup doc, one-shot vig, backup blocker), they should also claim as I have. If we have masons, only one from such a group should claim as I have. Remember, I'm not advocating in any way a role-claim, just whether your role guarantees the existence of other roles in the game. This narrows down the mafia makeup even further without hurting the Town. (For instance, if one other player claims as I have, then we are guaranteed at least four indeterminate "power roles" in the game. Implying we have
  at most
  three vanilla townies, and guaranteeing a mafia blocker.)
  
• I believe vanilla townies should not claim their "vanilla-ness" for as long as possible: knowledge of vanilla townies is extremely valuable to the mafia for narrowing down the true power roles.

Let's have some fun.

[germy]

Oh, and obviously, I'm not a fan of the ridiculous random-vote phase. Might as well get some real discussion started on page 1, rather than page 5.

[sekinj]

wow... I think germy is running for mayor...

[CF Riot]

not a fan of the ridiculous random-vote phase.

Me either. Thanks for throwing something out there that will immediately cut through all the crap. That seems like a lot of thought put into the game before anyone ever made a post. I like that. Forgive me for keeping the possibility open that you're lying. =]

[Kairyuu]

Forgive me if I completely disagree with your ideas germy. The sentiment was nice, but I don't like what you are doing.

In essence, you are rolefishing with a convoluted claim in order to draw out backup power roles. This helps the scum, because it narrows down the list of people who could be full power roles by quite a bit. According to you, there are approximately 4 full power roles and 3 vanillas. If everyone does as you say, then instead of looking at the game and having 12 (minus lynch and scum members) people to choose from, the scum have a 4/7 chance of hitting a town power role during the Night.

I think you knew that though, so I will

unvote

and

vote:germy

until you can explain yourself.

As a sidenote: I like random voting. It's fun. Fun that has been stolen from me in three of the four games I have been in. Because of that, I passionately desire your death, germy.

[germy]

According to you, there are approximately 4 full power roles and 3 vanillas.

False. All I know is that there are two "power roles," one of which is me, and there could be as many as

five

seven

(see below)

vanilla townies.

Plus, if someone else claims as I have, we will only know of two "full power" roles and two "dependent power" roles (backup, one-shot, or mason), and a maximum of

three

five

vanilla townies.

If everyone does as you say, then instead of looking at the game and having 12 (minus lynch and scum members) people to choose from, the scum have a 4/7 chance of hitting a town power role during the Night.

Yes, I know I've made the chances better for the mafia. But only very slightly, and my belief is that Town knowledge, in this case, outweighs the slight advantage the mafia gains.

If I am the only "dependent role," and had never claimed as such, and assuming a vanilla townie lynch (hopefully not, hopefully scum), the mafia would have had a minimum of 1/8 (12.5%) chance of hitting a "full-power role." With my revelation, there will be a 1/7 (14.3%) chance going into Night 1.

If there is a second "dependent role," and they do not claim, the chances have jumped from 2/8 (25%) to 2/7 (28.6%). If a second "dependent role" does claim, it will jump to 2/6 (33.3%).

So, again, yes, I've made the chances better for the mafia of hitting a full-power role, and have even given the mafia a 100% of hitting a power role of some kind over a vanilla townie (me). But I believe a Townie knowledge of game setup outweighs the marginal increase. 33% is not that much better of a chance over 25%, let alone 14.3% versus 12.5%.

The point is the mafia

already

know their own makeup, therefore they can

already

roughly determine the number of power roles in the game. For example, if the mafia is composed of a goon, a blocker, and a godfather, they already

know

we are in a TTT or TT situation. Which means they already

know

the town has four power roles (XXXXTTT) or five power roles (XXXXXTT).

Yes, the mafia now have marginally better chances of hitting full-power roles (doc, vig, etc.), but it's not that much better than what they already know. My revelation gives the Town access to this information, as well, which I think is very important, very useful, and outweighs the slight percentage difference. If we can discover there is a mafia blocker or mafia spy, it gives the Town more information to make decisions and analyze Night actions, not to mention narrowing down possible SK abilities and establishing a maximum ceiling for the number of vanilla townies.

• Also, I think I made a mistake in my thoughts on vanilla townie distribution. I had thought that each T represented a vanilla townie, when actually all those remaining after choosing power roles and mafia are vanilla townie.
  
  If so, then my current knowledge of the game setup is 2 "power roles" (including myself), 3 mafia, and a maximum of
  7
  vanilla townies. If someone else reveals a similar role, then the game setup is 4 "power roles," 3 mafia (1 guaranteed blocker), and a maximum of 5 vanilla townies.

So, there you go, Kairyuu, I've explained myself. Yes, I did know, and I still think it's worth it.

[mykonian]

I don´t know if this was the way to start... Though the setup invites you to do it. And I´m not directly believing germy´s claim, so I don´t want anyone else to claim. Could be mafia, giving some useless info away to get the last bits of information they needed to determine the exact setup. Yet the lynch of germy could be the worst move we can make, there is a big enough chance he will be NK´ed.

[mykonian]

BTW

vote nightwolf

for being below me in the list, and because I don´t like wolves, esspecially at night.

[springlullaby]

Lol, seems I signed up for the wrong game again. Ok, I'm crap at evaluating game mechanics when it involves probabilities and such so I'm against any kind of claim unless someone can explain better than germy why it would be a good idea.

Vote CF RIOT

[mykonian]

I can do the maths behind this, but I won't do it too much. It says something about the probability of a setup to happen, it doesn't say what the setup is. I would agree with one sort of claim: Miller. It helps town a lot, and the miller self too.

I think the setup will reveal itself when the days get by. And I don't think the information what the setup is would help us day 1.

[Artem]

Hey everyone.

This is my second game outside of newbie games, and first time playing C9++, so bear with me.

The discussion about the setup is interesting but I don't understand several things.

With 12 alive, it will take 7 votes to lynch.

Why is 7 the majority and not the usual 5?

The point is the mafia already know their own makeup, therefore they can already roughly determine the number of power roles in the game. For example, if the mafia is composed of a goon, a blocker, and a godfather, they already know we are in a TTT or TT situation. Which means they already know the town has four power roles (XXXXTTT) or five power roles (XXXXXTT).

Why does TTT or TT guarantees five power roles? What if the setup is MMMMTTT - which gives us three masons?

If so, then my current knowledge of the game setup is 2 "power roles" (including myself), 3 mafia, and a maximum of 7 vanilla townies. If someone else reveals a similar role, then the game setup is 4 "power roles," 3 mafia (1 guaranteed blocker), and a maximum of 5 vanilla townies.

Correct me if I'm wrong but we also have a minimum of 5 vanillas, since only 7 letters are drawn.

I will not reveal my role, but it does guarantee the existence of another, similar role. We have one of the following situations: DD, DDDD, VV, VVVV, MM, MMM, MMMM, MMMMM, BB, or BBBB. To clarify further, I am one of the following roles: nurse, one-shot vig, mason, or backup blocker. I am not at this time claiming which.

If we have a vigilante(s), I suggest they don't night-kill, because (a) this is a 12-person game and we have too few townies to allow for a mis-kill and (b) we have no way of distinguishing a vig kill from a SK kill; since SK

has

to kill, i vote vigilante(s) don't (if we have them).

In essence, you are rolefishing with a convoluted claim in order to draw out backup power roles. This helps the scum, because it narrows down the list of people who could be full power roles by quite a bit. According to you, there are approximately 4 full power roles and 3 vanillas. If everyone does as you say, then instead of looking at the game and having 12 (minus lynch and scum members) people to choose from, the scum have a 4/7 chance of hitting a town power role during the Night.

I think you knew that though, so I will unvote and vote:germy until you can explain yourself.

I think I'm going to

Vote: Kairyuu

because he's contradicting himself. If you're arguing that somebody is helping scum by narrowing down the set of players that have full power roles, then you're assuming that the said person is town, but if they are town, you shouldn't be voting them.

I'm not entirely sure if I believe germy's claim because it seems all too easy for him to be scum and make a WIFOM argument of "The scum is obviously trying to find full power roles, so they are not interested in night-killing me" to explain his survival of each night.

[ChuckNorris]

Hi. My first Mini. I haven't even got to day 2 on my newbie. Lol. Anyway so far there is nothing much to comment on, apart from the fact that Germy effectively claimed a power role. I don't like this. For 2 possible reasons. First now Germy is very lkely to get NKed, and Secondly this could be scum pretending to be a ower Role.

RandomVote: CF Riot

- Because I've never actually seen the Hulk.

Just to let you know. I love random voting. It's very fun. =D

MFoS: Germy

- I don't like the fact that he is claiming on the first post.

[CF Riot]

@Artem:

Why is 7 the majority and not the usual 5?

Half of 12 is 6, (50%) so a majority would need to be 7 minimum.

Correct me if I'm wrong but we also have a minimum of 5 vanillas, since only 7 letters are drawn.

False. Random example: DDDDVVM - 2 docs, back-up doc, vig and 1-shot vig, child, serial killer, 3 mafia. That only leaves 2 vanillas.

If we have a vigilante(s), I suggest they don't night-kill, because . . . we have no way of distinguishing a vig kill from a SK kill; since SK

has

to kill, i vote vigilante(s) don't (if we have them).

For night 1, I agree.

I think I'm going to

Vote: Kairyuu

because he's contradicting himself. If you're arguing that somebody is helping scum by narrowing down the set of players that have full power roles, then you're assuming that the said person is town, but if they are town, you shouldn't be voting them.

I don't really think that's true. He can assume he's helping scum while being scum himself, or be helping scum while being a SK.

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@All: Question, what is the down side to a mafioso claiming miller? Mykonian asked for a miller claim, which I'm not really for or against, but I was just wondering what keeps the mafia from doing this.

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@Charles: I haven't seen the new movies either. I like him as a comic book character.

[ChuckNorris]

First, my names Chuck =).

In answer to your question, I think that we shouldn't neccissarily believe power role claims, this early on anyway. I just think the first post is a bit early to cliam a power role. That's the reason behind my Miniscule FoS on Germy.

[mykonian]

we can have 4 roles with no letter: T, so I don´t think we are certain we have at least 5 vanilla. theoratically, we could have 12 minus 4 minus 2 times 2 minus 3 is one vanilla. This setup has no certainties, only probabilities.

Well Germy, it would surprise me if he is scum. He is too eager to find out the setup, yes. I don´t know if someone played with him, but it would be a weird move for scum to start day 1 that way. I don´t want germy to react on the following, but from what I guess, it isn´t the smartest move to NK germy. Also not to lynch him.

I'm not entirely sure if I believe germy's claim because it seems all too easy for him to be scum and make a WIFOM argument of "The scum is obviously trying to find full power roles, so they are not interested in night-killing me" to explain his survival of each night.

Do you really believe we are that stupid, or you are. I don´t think germy would survive that way, without anyone noticing it. Let´s see if he does that after the first night.

[Artem]

@CF Riot: Thanks for explaining the mechanics.

I think I'm going to

Vote: Kairyuu

because he's contradicting himself. If you're arguing that somebody is helping scum by narrowing down the set of players that have full power roles, then you're assuming that the said person is town, but if they are town, you shouldn't be voting them.

I don't really think that's true. He can assume he's helping scum while being scum himself, or be helping scum while being a SK.

Oh, I forgot about the SK. I don't think you can argue that the person is eliminating power role possibilities while being scum, though. Scum already know their buddy is not a power role.

I'm not entirely sure if I believe germy's claim because it seems all too easy for him to be scum and make a WIFOM argument of "The scum is obviously trying to find full power roles, so they are not interested in night-killing me" to explain his survival of each night.

Do you really believe we are that stupid, or you are. I don´t think germy would survive that way, without anyone noticing it. Let´s see if he does that after the first night.

He doesn't have to state it explicitly. What are we going to do if he survives the first night... and the second night.... and the third? Notice that he didn't specify which secondary role he is. I'm not saying he should (i.e., I'm not role-fishing), but as scum, it would be very convenient to leave yourself some flexibility.

[ChuckNorris]

we can have 4 roles with no letter: T, so I don´t think we are certain we have at least 5 vanilla. theoratically, we could have 12 minus 4 minus 2 times 2 minus 3 is one vanilla. This setup has no certainties, only probabilities.

I still don't really get the setup thing. Would anyone mind explaining to me in more detail?

Well Germy, it would surprise me if he is scum. He is too eager to find out the setup, yes. I don´t know if someone played with him, but it would be a weird move for scum to start day 1 that way. I don´t want germy to react on the following, but from what I guess, it isn´t the smartest move to NK germy. Also not to lynch him.

Well this is true, but If he doesn't get NKed it could be because he is scum?

[CF Riot]

In answer to your question, . .

<snip>

I didn't ask you anything. No one asked you anything. ???

I don't think you can argue that the person is eliminating power role possibilities while being scum, though. Scum already know their buddy is not a power role.

I don't mean by his own claim. After he claimed his back-up role, Germy suggested that all other back-ups claim as well. If he were scum, and if a true back-up did this, it would be the "eliminating power role possibilities" Kairyuu was talking about.