Mafia 95 - Quick & Dirty - Game Over!

[Papa Zito]

Vote: xRECKONERx

Yo!

[Papa Zito]

HAI GUYZ

With 14 alive, it takes 8 votes to lynch. Deadline is Monday, June 8th at 10 PM Eastern time.

We have a bit over a week left before deadline, in case anyone missed it.

Vote: Phoebus

I think he has a better role than me.. I'm jealous..

Say what?

unvote: xRECKONERx
vote: Kise

[Papa Zito]

Fritzler has instructed me to

vote: Xylthixlm

.

wat

I shouldn't be confused on page 1. Dammit.

[Papa Zito]

So is Lamont an alt, or a possible Jester? Seems more like an alt/joke account to me than anything.

(I think we're officially out of the RVS)

WTF? Why would you think any of this?

I think we need a do-over. This isn't supposed to be Twilight Zone Mafia.

[Papa Zito]

Because Lamont is acting like he has ADHD, which gives me the impression he's a 2nd account for someone, or he's looking for a subtle way of getting himself lynched.

It was just a question anyway. Calm down, Papa.

I'm calm. Lost, but calm. And I think your conclusion was a stretch that would give a yoga master pause.

Also, you still haven't explained your weird comment on page 1.

[Papa Zito]

It's a random vote with a silly reason. What's the big deal?

You underestimate the depth of my seething hatred of Fritzler

OK its META

This crap is now officially off my radar.

ALT-M, ALT-CLAIM NOW OR DIE!

Why is this important again?

[Papa Zito]

He is an admitted ALT. I wanna know who he is. He should willingly reveal.

If he wanted to reveal he'd probably have used his main.

I must be humor-deficient, Kise. Explain the joke to me.

[Papa Zito]

@Xyl: Can you explain your vote on Papa, I'm not getting it; shouldn't you be votingDizzy?

Expressing confusion is scummy.

lol

[Papa Zito]

vote: xRECKONERx

I just watched Lost Season 1 on DVD (yeah I finally gave in) and Locke's scummy. Or not. Umm..no Lost spoilers please.

I take it you didn't read the thread before you posted this.

[Papa Zito]

{list of joke votes}
Hmm... all joke votes so far, right?
BUT... THEN --->

Vote: Phoebus

I think he has a better role than me.. I'm jealous..

Say what?

unvote: xRECKONERx
vote: Kise

[1]I don't see the big difference between the previous joke votes that came before mine and what I had to say. [2]Seems to me Papa was looking for an excuse to raise suspicion on someone and speed a lynch up.

1. If you can't tell the difference between the first set of votes and your own, then I can't help you.

2. This is the whole point of RVS. I saw something off and I questioned it. Your reaction is telling me that I'm not too far off base. Couple that with the vanilla claim and, tada, L-2.

In other news:

@Xylthixlm: Do you have a master list of all these great scum-tells somewhere? Because at the moment it seems like you pull them out of your ass to suit your purposes. Also, "I wanted to kill Lamont" - why?
@inHimshallibe: You wanted to kill me why?
@Lamont: How do you know Xyl is a valuable player?
@cateraction: If you're not ready to vote, can you give your opinion on something?

[Papa Zito]

1. If you can't tell the difference between the first set of votes and your own, then I can't help you.

You're not trying to help. Try answering a question directly next time and maybe you can "help" someone.

You didn't ask a question.

Here are my problems with your initial post.

1. There's no obvious joke. Which would be the extremely obvious difference between your post and the ones you quoted.
2. You open the game talking about roles.

Since then, you've added the following:

3. Repeating it was a joke over and over instead of simply addressing the question
4. Defending the "alt" point when it was obvious Lamont was talking to consonantM
5. Bringing up the issue of Jesters for no reason whatsoever
6. Soft-claiming vanilla with zero provocation
7. Attempting to frame Lamont for your soft-claim.
8. Misquoting Lamont in your claim defense (post 93) to add "role".
9. Hypocritically accusing me of dodging questions after failing to explain the "joke" as repeatedly requested.

Maybe you'll answer some of these. Feel free to start with #1.

[Papa Zito]

I believe that Kise's quasi-claim was very scummy, but the speed at which his wagon developed concerns me. In my experience, wagons that happen that fast are scum driven. We should talk right up to deadline before we lynch someone because it gives us more information.

Thanks, agreed on all three points.

[Papa Zito]

Papa Zito: I was taught in a hidden temple by master Mafia monks. There, they passed on to me a thousand years of secret Mafia techniques, including all of the 1080 possible scumtells. I have sworn an oath not to reveal this information in its entirety to another, and can only pass it on one tell at a time, and only while playing Mafia.

Or, you know, they might just be things I've noticed scum tend to do. Pick whichever story works for you.

As for Lamont he's starting to feel townier, but that may be because he's sucking up to me.

Sigh.

Two more things for you that came up during my re-read. The first is one of your 1080 mafia tells:

@Xyl: Can you explain your vote on Papa, I'm not getting it; shouldn't you be votingDizzy?

Expressing confusion is scummy.

And yet...

I need obvAlt-M to alt-claim first then I'll join that wagon in a heartbeat.

Whiskey Tango Foxtrot?

Replies: 660
Views: 17610
Forum: Queue Posted: Sat Apr 25, 2009 4:12 am Subject: Newbie Game List (Players & Moderators)
lets see how much fun i can have with this account.
/in 4 next.

Oscar Mike Golf Uniform Sierra??

...what the fuck happened while I was gone overnight?

Keeping my vote on Lamont. I'm kinda happy with it for now.

... three other confusion posts skip right by without a blink. Why?

Second is:

So is Lamont an alt, or a possible Jester? Seems more like an alt/joke account to me than anything.

(I think we're officially out of the RVS)

In another game we shared, you revealed one of the 1080 mafia tells to be bringing up the idea of a jester. Again, why did this post go by without comment?

Also, you didn't really answer my question on Lamont. What made you feel he needed to be lynched in the first place?

[Papa Zito]

[1]@Zito - As far as point #5 goes, Lamont is acting like a Jester. If you're so definite that he's not a jester, then maybe it's because you two are mafia.. [2]As for point #8, I WASN'T quoting Lamont, I was quoting myself. Don't play dumb.

[3]All I said was that my role is plain. Now, did anyone ever to stop to think that maybe that was a personal opinion of mine? What if I'm a Thief; someone who absorbs a NA if they target someone with a night ability, but could also target a non-NA player? Or what if I'm a bodyguard; a mofo that DIES when they protect someone?

So just because I said my role is plain means I'm automatically mafia who wants to hide behind a basic role? I can't be a townie trying to avoid NK? And just because I used the word plain, does that automatically mean Vanilla?

Like I said... it was a personal opinion, and a very VAGUE comment by me. Yet and still the BW is putting words in my mouth and, surprisingly, got some sheep to join the wagon. [4]You can't and won't find a quote of mine where I claim vanilla because all I said was that my role is plain TO ME.

[1]And to reiterate about Lamont being a jester... you're blind if you don't notice how crazy he was acting when this game jumped off. Which is why I was checking to see if people knew he was an alternate account for the 'lulz', or whether he could be trying to get people to hate him enough that we'd lynch him.

1. So what if he is a Jester? I can't see a game this size ending with a Jester lynch, so how is it even relevant?
2. Erm, no. Your quote was:

I don't care if Lamont denies it, he basically was rolefishing with me. What else could it mean if someone asks, "Do you have meta knowledge that your role is not better than his?"

If it was a joke is there some way you can prove that, like meta or something?

Can you provide some meta why you would make such a joke?

That's a blatant misquote of what he said. You changed it to add the word "role".

3. I wouldn't call those roles "plain" since, well, they aren't.

4. You're correct here. Hence why I said you soft-claimed.

I'd like for you to address the other 6 points as well, please.

[Papa Zito]

Please excuse me if I offend you, but fuck those points.. It's a cluster of nonsense that looks to me like your attempt to paint me in a bad light with everyone else. You've been twisting my words up and trying to make it seem like my intentions/words are something that they aren't. You come across like you're purposely trying to get under my skin..

If you think you've got a case with me, just say it. If you've got a hard-on for a mislynch so bad, then if I get lynched and flip town, why don't you volunteer to be lynched next for advocating a mistake that you had so much belief in? If you're so confident that you know who's scum, then I must tell you that you're a terrible scumhunter.

I get the impression you trust Lamont for whatever reason; either masons or mafia. To be fair, I'm considering both rather than singling you flat-out as scumbags.

If you're not going to provide a defense, then I have no reason to move my vote. If you're town, then you should be defending yourself.

I don't trust Lamont any more than the rest of you. But I did see you attempt to frame him for your softclaim, and I did see you later misquote him in a defense attempt.

[Papa Zito]

EBWOP: Oh, there's a fifth page...

Kise's real claim is a bit odd to me. Even numbered nights? Okay, maybe... but this could also be a clever claim attempt by him to at least keep himself alive till D3, WHILE ALSO drawing Doc protection (assuming there is a Doc) for N1 & N2 due to his claim. He claimed I have a plain role... his original vote was that someone's role was better than his... etc. etc... and now suddenly he has an even-numbered investigative role?

Nah. Keeping my vote. Not convinced, nor do I think we're going to get another lynch going by 10pm.

yea... there isn't much plain about that type of cop role. It seems unusual to me.

Lynch all liars? I'm also not seeing how it can't be a scum role.

[Papa Zito]

Nah. Keeping my vote. Not convinced, nor do I think we're going to get another lynch going by 10pm.

P.S. Deadline is next Monday, June 8th.

[Papa Zito]

If you guys want to justify an intentional mislynch, be my guest. That's the only reason you don't want to unvote.

Why would you risk lynching a powerful ally to town, over your own stubborn gut-feeling that I'm scum? Sorry to be one to tell you, but there's no such thing as fool-proof scumhunting. Nobody is perfect when it comes to finding out scum.

So how's this going to work; I'm staying in the hot seat for the rest of D1? Ok... That'll work highly in favor of anti-town since this whole fiasco is a good enough distraction to keep suspicion off everyone else.

I don't want to unvote you because you're scummy as hell and you've claimed something that will take us days to verify. I'm sure this isn't coincidence.

However, I can't deny the logic of your last point. Don't think this means you're off the hook, though.

unvote: Kise
vote: consonantM

Post. I know you want to.

[Papa Zito]

Now, let me be clear: I kind of see the logic in what Kise is saying. He claimed a power role, and maybe we should give him the chance to actually prove it instead of auto-lynching just because of some... scummy play.

Fail. He's claimed Cop. It's a popular fake-claim for scum precisely because you cannot test it and it can only be proven or disproven upon the death of the claimed cop. Scummy play + Cop claim usually = Scum.

He actually didn't even claim cop. All he said was that he had a night action on even-numbered nights.

[Papa Zito]

He said he could investigate people. So he's cop or cop-like. Either way, the point stands. It also makes him seem even more scummy for the way he claimed to be claiming without actually claiming out-right.

He actually never said he can investigate people, if you read what he said carefully.

I have a night action I can perform on even numbered nights (N2, N4, N6, etc.).

There must be someone out there who can perform investigations on odd numbered nights, so don't say anything.

Just stay in the shadows and do your thing during the 1st NP. Until then, it's a good idea for me to be protected tonight because I'm honestly more important than I hoped to make everyone believe... surprising?

The bolded portion is all his claim amounts to. You can make the assumption that his night action is an investigation by the italicized bit, but he hasn't outright claimed that ability. I've seen games where a mafia doctor can protect on even nights and a mafia cop can investigate on odd nights, or something similar, so to me he may not even be lying but that doesn't make him town.

I think we need a full claim to put any speculation about his role to rest. As it stands now it just looks like wriggle room for later: "Well, I never

said

... if you guys go back and read..." etc.

[Papa Zito]

If you guys want to justify an intentional mislynch, be my guest. That's the only reason you don't want to unvote.

Why would you risk lynching a powerful ally to town, over your own stubborn gut-feeling that I'm scum? Sorry to be one to tell you, but there's no such thing as fool-proof scumhunting. Nobody is perfect when it comes to finding out scum.

So how's this going to work; I'm staying in the hot seat for the rest of D1? Ok... That'll work highly in favor of anti-town since this whole fiasco is a good enough distraction to keep suspicion off everyone else.

I don't want to unvote you because you're scummy as hell and you've claimed something that will take us days to verify. I'm sure this isn't coincidence.

However, I can't deny the logic of your last point.

Can you please detail out this

undeniable logic

for me? I am truly curious...

Sure.

This is a fast-paced game as it is, with day phases only lasting nine days. I'm fairly confident that we've caught scum here, but I don't want to waste the remaining seven days that we have by lynching him now. I'd prefer the town look for the remaining scum now, then lynch Kise towards the end of the day.

[Papa Zito]

@Zito - Does this mean you still have the intention to have me lynched?

Yes.

Pro-Tip: Read the whole post:

Missed that, thanks.

[Papa Zito]

PapaZ, way to steal Sirdan's method of new posts.

I know, I know. It just works too well for me not to use it. I should PM him or something.

You're defending Kise for some reason (maybe since he can't/won't do it himself?) so tell me your opinion on points 7 and 8?

Votes 4 me 4 no other reason other than the fact that i haven't posted, despite it being clear i had not done so in ANY of my games 4 hours, and was clearly not online.

Acceptable in the RVS.

Not acceptable out of it.

I'm not keeping track of your online habits. I do know that we can't afford lurkers in a game this fast-paced.

Also, mission accomplished here. Lawl.

unvote: consonantM

Last question: You've done a bunch of analysis, why no vote?

[Papa Zito]

Zito--ur vote is on me, still.

Y?

Ur online, and ur reasoning 4 voting me was basically an accusation of lurking...

Because I'm not Superman?

[Papa Zito]

so tell me your opinion on points 7 and 8?

I'm lazy. Requote 'em, please.

7. Attempting to frame Lamont for your soft-claim.
8. Misquoting Lamont in your claim defense (post 93) to add "role".

Last question: You've done a bunch of analysis, why no vote?

i still stand by that vote. it wasn't random.

Then an explanation would be great.

[Papa Zito]

If that was the hammer, then I'll be irritated.

inHimshallibe: 2 posts
lazarusmoth: 2 posts
Lowell: 1 post

This shouldn't have been allowed to happen.

Mod: Vote count plz

[Papa Zito]

HOW DARE YOU BLAME ANYONE ELSE FOR YOUR CRAPPY PLAY!!!

Also this, seriously. You brought all this on yourself, Kise. Don't blame me.

[Papa Zito]

So what do you guys think? Overly emotional townie with a power role? Or pissed-off found-out scum?

I'm leaning towards the former. The fuck-you venom in kise's rant about how lynching him serves mafia seems real. I know it's good meta to lynch all liars and self-voters and all, but should we put that above scum-hunting?

I'll trust kise in Day 1 so he can give his power a whirl. Let me look at the bandwagon and find possible scum now.

Oh hai, welcome to the game. So it wasn't a last-ditch gambit to fake-hammer himself and gain sympathy? Okay then.

Also, you'll have to trust Kise until Day 3, since his alleged role doesn't activate until N2. You're prepared to do that despite the last 9 pages of crap?

[Papa Zito]

Sweet, self-hammer fail.

vote: lazarusmoth

To be responding to raised points please. I'm especially looking forward to your bandwagon analysis.

[Papa Zito]

Now, this might be a scum tell to most, but I've never seen a pro-scum player vote themselves out of frustration. I've seen it dozens of times from pro-town players, though. Ask Papa--he's seen a cop do it.

This is true, I've witnessed a cop get himself lynched on Day 2 after acting terribly scummy all game and then voting himself. Newbie 762 if anyone cares to look.

The big difference I see here was the failed self-hammer, which just screams sympathy gambit to me. That and the initial vanilla claim. Etc.

There is definitely scum in this list:

Kise
ConsoM
Sam
Lazarus
Cater

That said, tho, i do agree on at least 1 of ur choices.

Which and why?

And if Kise is scum, he might WANT that to happen. Wanting townies to look bad after defending him (possibly leaving them open to be lynched), and wanting scum to look good by attacking him (hence, "Vote me, Zito", in the scenario where Kise is scum).

So, if I'm reading this right, Kise flipping scum clears you and implicates me, correct?

[Papa Zito]

Yay town!

inHimshallibe blocks Papa Zito
Papa Zito kills inHimshallibe (failed, roleblocked)

Lulz.

[Papa Zito]

So why was I killed then?

[Papa Zito]

This thread needs moar quicktopic.