Open 151 - Vengeful Mafia - Game over before 802

[Kise]

/confirm

[Kise]

Vote: Infection

Because I hate those.

[Kise]

Hmm...

Unvote
Vote: ZazieR

Hammertime?

[Kise]

I was to testing Infection's integrity.

[Kise]

What I meant by integrity is honesty/heart/sincerity. He knew what I was looking for him to do, so it's hard to say whether I found out what I wanted to test.

Unvote

We need more discussion.

Um... darkwing duck is cool.

[Kise]

Ok ZazieR, Infection knew I was looking to see if he'd put the final vote on either you or semi. I thought that should have been obvious.

Give me another day and I'll have millions of questions for you as well, ZazieR...

[Kise]

Typically, I would think scum like to speed things up with a lynch. I have never played a game with Infection, or any of you for that matter. It was my way of seeing who would be hasty to get things over with, but also my way of seeing if Infection was somehow in cahoots with anyone.

I.E., if Infection & SOG were mafia, then you'd think that Infection would not vote for SOG but instead go for Zaz'. But I also wanted to see if someone would unvote because they were perhaps trying to save their buddy (more specifically the Godfather). Perhaps, as I said, not definitely.

Good to know 3 of you are familiar with each other's playstyles though. Can you guys share whether you think any of you 3 are playing/acting differently?

[Kise]

Didn't even notice there were females here... caught me off guard when you two referred to each other as "her" & "she."

I've got one last question for anyone that's played VM before: About how many days/pages do these games typically last, in both your own experiences & from what else has been on the MS forums?

[Kise]

Scratch that -- I browsed the forums a bit and got a general idea as to how long these things go. I was figuring this would be a quick game because I need to complete 2 games on-site in order to play the Death Note mafia.. which may be starting soon.. without me.

[Kise]

It'll probably vary, but the norm is about 13-15 pages. Could be over sooner, but so far I don't think we have much of a case. Mafia get caught most of the time, but the playstyles/mindsets have been different in every thread I read. This game will have to be played the hard way, since there's no real hint I can gather from meta-reasons.

[Kise]

Infection: You still haven't made a vote. If you had to make a vote in your next post who would be the most likely person you'd vote for?

I know you're in the hotseat, so to speak, but I just want to step in and say how much I don't like this question. It seems like a way to flip the script on someone. And I don't mean to defend Infection, but there's no telling if he's even willing to vote for someone. Everyone could be townie in his eyes.

It won't do any good to try to find connections in this game because in the last VM threads I read, the mafia usually don't even show their cooperation in public. It's a certain mindset that they get into, so the best bet to nail mafia would be to watch for slips.

Anyone else read up on old VM games? What kind of hints would you offer, if you have read up?

I noticed that the Godfather is the most humble/quiet one in the bunch.

[Kise]

Well, I was hoping to use the "everyone looks innocent" purely for example-purposes. On the flipside, if he IS ready to vote for someone, then it would be more suitable for an "everyone looks mafia" example.

The motto is guilty until proven innocent, but I've never been paranoid that every single player is mafia. That's no good, especially since you need to narrow down who is the most scummy/suspicious.

[Kise]

@Zaz' & Sotty - If I chose to believe the trend of VM games, I'd have to look at Infection for having the least amount of posts. And the reason I'm not questioning him? HE'S the one making most of the questions, lol.

He's quite aggressive, but so far I don't think there's anything wrong with his "methods." He could be honestly trying to find something with his interrogation of SOG. There's no telling. I would like for us all to give opinions on each other. It might function as scumhunting depending on what's said, so it'll be a good generalization as to how everyone views each other.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

ZazieR - Wants clarification a lot, lol... From what I gather, you assume there's a connection between Infection & myself (if that's the case, what I have to say about Infection may not help to dispel this notion). It took her a while to figure out why I put her in L-1 (my little test). I'm more surprised no one asked why I didn't just drop the hammer on SOG since he was already in L-1. In fact... isn't he still in L-1? I have a neutral viewpoint on ZazieR.

Kise - Needs to have a shrine for his worshipers to pay their respects.

Infection - Theorizes/speculates more than the rest of us. He may be onto something, or he may be looking too hard into things. If he was mafia and hammered anyone during the earlier stages of this game, that could have meant he knew the GF wouldn't get lynched and could still win this game. I won't vouch him as pro-town yet, but his suspect-level is in better standing than the other 3 players.

Sotty7 - Another questionnaire.. She asked me about my "test" and mentioned she could have very well unvoted SOG and hammered ZazieR, which she didn't. Of course it was still too early to know who's worthy of lynching, but if ZazieR was one of her enemies in this game, I'm thinking she would have taken it. Haven't detected much, so she's another one who I have a neutral viewpoint on.

semioldguy - Probably unvoted Infection to take away the L-1 status, although HE was in L-1 as well and none of his voters pulled off. This is likely the case of people simply not caring to unvote for SOG. But I do understand where Infection is coming from, because it's as if SOG didn't want to chance ZazieR being lynched. I probably would not have trusted Infection as well, but if Infection was intent on lynching a townie, I'd think that the smart assumption was that Infection was scum looking for a quick-lynch, in which case he'd be deserving of a VK. On the flipside, Infection has either proven himself to be town by not being hasty, or SOG was protective of ZazieR for a good reason.

Also, I got good news, gang: I got accepted to play Death Note mafia!!!

[Kise]

I made a mistake. Check the bolded part to see what I REALLY meant to say.

semioldguy - Probably unvoted

Infection

ZazieR

to take away the L-1 status, although HE was in L-1 as well and none of his voters pulled off. This is likely the case of people simply not caring to unvote for SOG. But I do understand where Infection is coming from, because it's as if SOG didn't want to chance ZazieR being lynched. I probably would not have trusted Infection as well, but if Infection was intent on lynching a townie, I'd think that the smart assumption was that Infection was scum looking for a quick-lynch, in which case he'd be deserving of a VK. On the flipside, Infection has either proven himself to be town by not being hasty, or SOG was protective of ZazieR for a good reason.

Also, I got good news, gang: I got accepted to play Death Note mafia!!!

Congratulate me!

[Kise]

Consider the rules -- Automatic win for town if GF is lynched; otherwise, town wins when all mafia threats are eliminated.

In the scenario that Infection is mafia, he could have hammered a townie. From there, the VT would either kill Infection for being hasty (obv-scum) or tried to somehow guess who Infection's partner is, despite the fact that Infection had not shown teamwork with anyone else since it was his 1st post. Thing is, the VT would have had no traces as to who else besides Infection could be mafia, so if Infection was killed by the VT, then his scum partner could still have lived on and played with the other 2, knowing that a connection-link with Infection was non-existent. From there, the remaining mafia could do his part to ensure he wasn't lynched and also try to convince the VT of not killing him.

Maybe it's just the way I'm thinking, but in the situation I purposely set up for Infection on page 1, I would have taken the hammer if I was thinking like mafia.

So that's why I say Infection may have proven he's town. But let's not put words in anyone's mouth.

[Kise]

Another example I would say is that if Infection were mafia and he took the bait & hammered someone who was townie, he'd basically be a mafia-martyr.

[Kise]

Well like I said, that's just my mindset. I'm Japanese, and we're known for kamikazes......

OK, bad joke.

I gotta ask though, gals: Any reason why SOG is still at L-1?

[Kise]

Do you want me to vote for you?

Maybe you took my comments the wrong way. I don't think Infection is town, but he's leaning closer to being town than the rest of you.

And as for how zwet' played... He's a known noob (or alt).. He failed the martyr thing, so that's on him.

ZazieR, the main reason I am not voting is because there is more to be found out. You can't vote early on when you're not 100% sure that the lynch would count.. Do you want me to make a hasty vote? Because that's what it seems like you're saying.

And with me having 3 people who I suspect more than Infection, that means that 2 would be scum, one would be town. So like I said, there is more to be found out. BUT, I am not saying Infection is definitely town. He just plays less suspiciously than the rest of us.

[Kise]

If you are asking why I asked you all this, it's because scum have to fake their suspicions. Townies follow their thoughts more than scum as they have nothing to hide.

This is why townies mislynch a lot, and how the term "Terrible Townie" came to be. But to each their own; you have your experiences & beliefs, just as I have mine.

@SOG - He's asking questions to shed light on things he personally feels are scummy, while that leaves you having to defend yourself instead of countering him by asking questions of your own. And since we're on that topic, if you COULD ask Infection anything, what would it be? There doesn't seem like he's done much wrong so far... But I'll ask him a question first.

@Infection - Where the heck are you?! I hope you're caught up on everything.

@Sotty - Same pretty much goes to you... Where are you?

A few days ago, Infection was pretty good in my book.. But I don't like lurking (if that's what he's doing).

[Kise]

By voting, it can help to find more things out.

I come from a pretty bizarre mafia background (off-site) and we used to do things blunt & direct. I'm honestly not used to long day phases, so things here on MS are a little different. With that said, what do you mean that keeping a vote on someone helps yo to find more things out? Also, what have you found out by the votes so far?

[Kise]

^ I tried to be gentle.

@Sotty - I knew my opinion about Infection would be interpreted as me being 100% sure he's town. That's not the case at all. In other words, I just view him as being less panicky than everyone else; SOG in particular.

Do you two ladies feel that SOG has been pressured enough? I'm pretty nervous for him myself, based on how Infection has been grilling him. My booty is sweating, seriously.. But, yeah, if one of you could share what you've learned from putting pressure on SOG, I'll give you a mochi ball.

[Kise]

Any and every time you spend the entire duration of your post defending yourself, rather than imposing a strong enough counter towards Infection or whomever is questioning you. Read some of your posts in ISO and you'll see that you've been focused too much on clearing your name rather than pointing out anything from other players that is majorly suspicious.

Is that an OMGUS vote, or a pressure-vote? Either way, does this answer my question in Post 82?

[Kise]

Then how about you explain what the answer IS, rather than pointing out what it is not. We're the only two giving each other any action, therefore I'm going to aim all of my posts at you by default. If it's not a pressure nor an OMGUS vote against me, then you must be certain that you want to lynch me, correct? I see no other reason for the vote, but whatever the case may be, do explain your reasons.

Does answering the questions people ask of me indicate panic? If so, why? And if not, then what makes those posts panicky?

Panic = A state when your back is against the wall and you sub-consciously develop a narrow mindset.

You've grown a 1-track mind since all you've been doing when replying to hard-hitting questions/concerns (from others) is say things only to make yourself appear clean/townie. Add to that the fact that you make frequent 1-sentence posts and it becomes clear that you don't care to contribute anything heavy to the game, EXCEPT for when you are in the hotseat and need to clean your image, again.

No, it was not a pressure vote for him to post.

That was all you cared to comment on at the time. You found nothing else about anybody that you thought was worth mentioning? And if the reason you found nothing else on anybody worth mentioning is because nobody had done or said anything for you to be concerned about, then you NEED to deliver more pro-active posts that will move this game along, rather than sitting on the bench and waiting for opportunities when people directly speak to you. If it weren't for people addressing you, then I'd bet it'd be likely of you to become a lurker. Progression is the only way we can make this small game fun, honestly.

By voting, it can help to find more things out.

Right here, you could have broadened this post with a better explanation of how voting helps to find "things" out. This comment is so vague and does not paint any kind of picture at all. If you are a townie & voting helps you find out things, then let us into your mindset. There's no reason to be secretive because the mafia cannot NK you, so it's best to try and help the other two Town players find scum by announcing your viewpoint on things. The only thing I've gotten from your voting is that it's either random, or only used against someone such as myself who wants to assess your motives (a.k.a. an OMGUS vote) because we want to know whether you're scum or not.

You don't have a strong focus on scumhunting, although you'll ask a few questions here and there (that don't go answered, might I point out). By having a weak approach to scumhunting in a 5-person game, you will only keep us in a stalled day phase. Before today (IRL), it didn't seem like you were even interested in getting down to business.

Infection: You still haven't made a vote. If you had to make a vote in your next post who would be the most likely person you'd vote for?

The importance of this question is...? I don't see what you plan to achieve here. If Infection says he felt like voting for someone besides yourself, then this is only a way (or rather, a diversion) into getting Infection and the other person into a possible chaotic war of words & finger pointing. If you're scum, then I find this to be your way of introducing a distraction. If you're town, I am not sure what kind of lead you wanted or expected from this. It's not the kind of question I even imagine myself asking unless I was mafia trying to employ smoke & mirrors long enough to get the heat off of me. The fact remains, however, that Infection is the one who NEEDS to address any and every question directed at him. He needs to answer this question how he wants... but that's not stopping me from butting in to try and understand your motives, SOG. I'd expect you not to sit back and let others do all the talking neither, if that was ever the case.

I'm surprised I have not become restless, as far as this thread goes. No one else is throwing out any heavy-hitting material and it feels like this is nothing more than a twitter page, being used to update everyone on your timing and how busy you are. Sure, I'm guilty of also updating everyone back when I commented on the Death Note mafia sign-up situation, but at least I'm trying to get to the bottom of this with MORE than 1-line post, or "activity" post, as I call them. Get butthurt if you guys/gals want to, but I'm telling you all how I feel about you and your "contributions" to this game.

[Kise]

Furthermore, the question you ask him is not relevant to information about the game, as where he has been is not indicative of his alignment here.

O rly? Yeah, I knew it wouldn't help determine his alignment.. then again, it actually could, depending on wheher he gave a ludicrous answer or not. That's besides the point, and there is NO need for you or anyone else to focus on me asking Infection where he's at. It's

obviously

a question that was not designed to get much out of him other than a progressive/activity post, but I do want him to GTF back in here or be replaced. We can't determine whether someone is town or mafia if they don't give us reason to believe them as either.

[Kise]

*gives the ladies mochi balls*

I've learned.

[Kise]

Who do you feel has been scum hunting most this game, which others players if any do you feel haven't been scum hunting as much? These accusations can apply just as much to other players in the game as they apply to me, so why are you focusing on me for them?

I focus them on you because the post I made was concerning you in particular. As for who I think is doing the most scumhunting, excluding myself? ZazieR, and Infection was mildly doing his part as well until he vanished. You & Sotty don't trail too far behind Zaz, IMO, but I honestly think you're trying to scumhunt much better than Sotty.

you find me more likely to be scum

Not true. I don't have enough evidence on you to say whether you're scum or not.. The only reason I put so much attention on you is because you're the only one giving any life to this thread, so by default I am trying to go back-and-forth with you, since you're the only other player I can attempt to evaluate.

I am voting for you because I find you to be the most suspicious thus far in the game.

You are mischaracterizing my position and jumping to conclusions about both me and other players with no factual basis to back up your assumptions. You are not voting, which is fine if you are most suspicious of me, but otherwise bad. You are borderline-chainsaw defending Infection and holding him as likely town when there is no basis from his play to determine that and are making assumptions about his motivations.

Fine, it's fair to have your suspicions. But if this suspicion of yours is only due to me (somewhat) heckling you, then that is clearly an OMGUS vote. The reason I'm not voting is because I genuinely value the

power

of a vote. I do not use my vote until I am certain I want this or that person lynched. I don't see how I'm jumping to conclusions, especially when I have not pointed the finger at who I think is scum. I don't use factual basis for my assumptions, you say? Well, it IS a fact that no one outside of you & I are consistently posting in this thread, so I called the other 3 out for their minimal activity.

Are you frustrated that I've focused so much of my last posts on you? I'll be one to go on record and say that I dislike Infection's absence, but there's no telling why he hasn't been online. Does that make him any more scummy? No, I wouldn't say so. BUT, it also does not make him any more town. We really haven't had a chance to get to know Infection's behavior better, but I feel that I've read enough from you (SOG) to "nitpick" (for lack of a better word) at certain things you say. No hard feelings, it's just a game, and I'm trying to get to the bottom of this by finding out whether you could be scum or not.

Why are you nervous? You don't think he is scum?

I never said I had SOG pegged as scum. You want to know the reason why I am targeting him for most of my questions? Because the rest of you are barely in this thread, so me & SOG talk a whole lot more than the other 3 of you. When you ask me if I think he's scum, it only looks like you're trying to egg me into voting for him. Why would I lynch him when we still need more contributions, especially from Infection? And I do believe I asked a few days ago why you still have your vote on SOG... do you two think he's scum, and why?

Sure, it should be true that we're all mafia until proven townie. But if I REALLY believed that everyone here was mafia, then I would already have made a confirmed vote against someone. The thing is, reckless-voting does not help to scumhunt... That's like staying in the RVS for the entire game..

[Kise]

it IS a fact that no one outside of you & I are consistently posting in this thread, so I called the other 3 out for their minimal activity.

Let me add that when I mention

consistency

, I refer to posts that have content & substance to them, and not just post that can be deemed as "activity posts."

[Kise]

I could see how our back-and-forth makes it easier for them to quasi-lurk.. That's reasonable of you to say, so I'll lay back and wait for Infection's replacement. Hopefully it'll spark a thorough conversation between the 5 of us.

[Kise]

She's active in 2 other games with me, just not in here.. I take it that you somehow believe SOG & myself are scum and I don't want to lynch him? Is that your suspicion, Sotty?

[Kise]

Ok then.

I asked a few days ago why you still have your vote on SOG... do you two think he's scum, and why?

I still want to know why you had a vote on SOG for the longest.

[Kise]

@Post 103:
-------------

Just as you like what SOG is saying, I think he's doing a heck of a lot better job at scumhunting than you. You simply voted him to put pressure on him, and get a reaction out of him(?). That means you voted with no suspicion; you just wanted him to feel a certain way... Sounds like a mindgame, if you ask me. You're trying to put a potential town player in state of anxiety (I would imagine), hence why I believe he seems borderline panicky.

ZazieR & myself interacted for a while, then you made your twitter-like post. Most of your post had to do with Infection.. so I'll let his replacement address that, since I'm not going to step in and speak for someone else. The reason why you think of me & Infection as partners is likely due to my belief that he was scumhunting SOG in an honest way. He did it WITHOUT voting/pressuring SOG, and I felt like that was the townie thing to do, rather than how you & Zaz put SOG in L-1 before SOG & I put Zaz in L-1 (and I explained that I was testing Infection to see if he was hasty-scum that would go for the quick-lynch on either of those two; another reason I would personally give him townie points).

As for your 2nd question.. well, you didn't have to wait until I called you out on it before you decided to get seriously involved. Up until today, you've had your minor commentary, but nothing to the point of where you have a strong lead on anyone. Sure, you say you dislike a few things Infection has done, but is that a scumtell? Put more explanation behind your points so the rest of us understand how strongly you feel about your assumptions/opinions. You don't have to "type a novel," just watch the wording of your post so that it's clear whether you have the town's interest at heart or not.. Get me? I can understand if you don't log on daily, but.. if that's the case, try to post & leave the thread with something the rest of us can think on. Infection will not be coming back to tell you what he thinks of how you suspect him, so why not talk with the rest of us? There are more players than Infection to target.

To your 3rd question: I vote if it means something, ala putting Zaz in L-1 and testing Infection's motives to see if he would put her or SOG away. He didn't, so we should all take that for what it's worth. The way I took it was that he did a pro-town thing. If Infection & I are scum, then he surely would have hammered someone.. at least I'm thinking he would. It's not so much that I rarely vote after the RVS stage; the timing of my vote depends on whether a scumtell is strong enough to warrant my vote. When this game was in the "RVS," I found a way to hurriedly know more of a then-unvoting player's mindset (Infection). I would like to think I helped get us out of the RVS, with Infection & SOG right behind me.

Your next point on whether I was nervous about lynching SOG: As I previously said, if I do not have enough evidence, I am not willing to put a player away. Do I know if SOG will flip town? No, but I also don't know if he'll flip mafia, so I had no reason to vote for him.. This makes no sense, Sotty.. I am not putting anybody out of the game just because you & Zaz think he's worthy of being lynched. Just because I had a lot of back-and-forth with SOG does not mean it's okay for the rest of you to sit back. As long as SOG questioned me, I would respond and in-turn question him as well.. That's how back-and-forth discussion works. And, from me having that intimate, 3-day long discussion with SOG, I got to know him better... So as far as I'm concerned, him & I are entitled to take a break from letting the focus be on us, especially since everyone else COULD have thrown their thoughts/evaluations out there BEFORE I called them out. What do you make of my intimate discussion with SOG; Do you think it was worth my time bothering him with everything I said, or was I unjust? Judging from what you just said in Post 107, you're more trusting of him & actually like what it is he's saying. So, it looks like my discussion with him proved something after all. This is why it's vital for everyone to be more involved, so we can get readings.

But this leaves me thinking.. do you now trust SOG because of your pressure vote, or because of what became of his & mine's conversation? If it's the latter, then (sorry to pat myself on the back, but) this means that my methods are effective in finding out who's trustworthy, whilst the pressure-voting did little to light a fire under SOG's keister. If it's a different reason than I listed, do tell.

[Kise]

You became “nervous” and questioned both me and ZazieR about the wagon.

Of course I was nervous for him. You two were willing to leave someone in L-1 when you had no idea whether they were definite scum. You may say that whoever hammered him would be veng-killed if he flipped town, but why wouldn't he also use it on those who started the wagon? Mislynches & misshots are not far from each other. I said I was nervous for him because it seemed like you two were never going to unvote, so that's why I constantly asked why he still had a vote against him.

Twitter like post? Are you serious or just being insulting?

I was referring to when you said weekends were 'hit or miss'.

I voted semi because I have played a bunch of games in a row with him.

Ok. I can't fault you for that because you did vote for him before Zaz did. But I was still uneasy about you two leaving him in L-1, since most others I have played with would always unvote out of courtesy, rather than leave that risk available for so long.

Also if you had such a problem with my post, why did you not say anything at the time?

Did it matter whether I addressed it right away or 2 days later? I didn't get on your case right away because I expected you to come back sooner & be more substantial. Instead, this thread turned into the SOG-Kise show for 3 days.

I actually

don't

like to think in terms of partners on day one. Right now I am just focused in on trying to catch one scum. I have also explained why Infection has given me bad vibes and how your interaction with him caused me to look at you as well.

I don't like his absence, and pointed that out already. Also, go back to Post 65 of mine where I address Zaz. I got the feeling she thought I was buddying up with Infection last Thursday, and I gave a warning that if she did have those feelings, then what I was about to say regarding Infection would not help to dissolve those thoughts. I wasn't going to lie and purposely distance myself from him last week, just for the sake of making myself look good. I had no reason to be scared to give props where it's due.

Why are you trying to say not voting/pressuring is the only “honest” way to scum hunt. Myself, ZazieR and semi have all corrected you on this and you even made a post saying you “learned”. Now you are backing away from that? If no one pressured anyone we wouldn't get anywhere. I would actually say Infection did apply

some

pressure to both semi and ZazieR with his theories. So you are off base here again.

Right, with his theories,

not

his vote. And when I said I've learned from pressuring SOG, that meant from using my own approach--Although it's fair to say SOG's reactions these past few days are coupled with L-1 & our convo. Yet and still, I see the effects of pressuring a player through discussion (which is what I asked you two, and I also asked if you pressured him long enough) so, no, I'm not backing away. Same as I am not backing away from my earlier comments on Infection. Call me a nut-hugger if you want, but I used my heart last week when I offered my thoughts on every player. If the rest of you feel like Infection's play is scum/null-tell, then we're all entitled to our opinions. It's perfectly healthy for us to elaborate on our reasons.

Once more with the town points for the lack of hammer. Why do you still ignore that this applies to me to?

Well, Infection was faced with 2 players he could have hammered. You were faced with only the choice of Zaz, who also had a hand in keeping SOG in L-1 for nearly 2 weeks. Wouldn't you also think that (if Infection was scum) that it was possible for only either Zaz or SOG to be his partner, thus he could have easily eliminated the other player who was not a partner of his?

If we can be honest with each other here, it's obvious that I'm being linked to Infection because of my comments about him. Well, even though there's no dialogue to prove it, I wouldn't rule out linking you (Sotty) & Zaz simply due to hanging onto a vote on SOG for so long, especially when there was risk of a hammer. 2 weeks is a very long time to keep a vote locked in. I think I had a good reason to become concerned with why he was not unvoted sooner. If you don't agree with my uneasiness, then explain the benefits of keeping someone in L-1. Did you expect him to roleclaim? Lol, no docs or cops here, I'm afraid. Go back and take a look at how the pressure-voting affected SOG... then take a look at how SOG was affected by my words. Which method do you think was more effective in getting a decent response from SOG?

Right now I don't know if Infection's actions are valid scum tells because he posted and did so little. Basically I look for scum manipulating the process to get people so see it the way they see it. This is something I feel you are doing right now.

Ehh.. It won't be the 1st time when I say that we're all entitled to our own personal views. I'm not trying to make anyone else see things my way. If you didn't read much from Infection's behavior when he was active, then that's you. If you can see a link between Infection & myself, then that's fair. If you think pressure-voting accomplished much, I would agree to a small extent, because I think it takes more, but either way, it's

your

opinion that matters. The most I could do is at least try to see why you all see things the way you do, just as I in-turn offer an insight to why I see things the way I do. I'm not trying to force anyone to think my word is law.

Just as you like what SOG is saying,

I think

he's doing a heck of a lot better job at scumhunting than you. You simply voted him to put pressure on him, and get a reaction out of him(?). That means you voted with no suspicion; you just wanted him to feel a certain way... Sounds like a mindgame,

if you ask me

. You're trying to put a potential town player in state of anxiety

(I would imagine)

, hence why

I believe

he seems borderline panicky.

Feel me? It's all

my

opinions. I am not giving anything out as concrete. The closest I've been to claiming anything as concrete is when I ask for clarification first, just so I'm certain.

We have argued the pros and cons of hyposcum Infection hammer. I see your point, but you don't seem to even think about mine. What if Infection is a cautious scum player? What if he doesn't view the game in the same theory you do?

Never said I didn't think about your points, it's just that I feel more strongly about how I judged the situation. Don't forget, Sotty, that I've also said that if I were scum in his position, I would have made a kamikaze move to quickly eliminate town. It's not that your points aren't valued by me, but the 1st thoughts that come to mind are to consider my own viewpoints initially. If I'm honest, I pretty much forgot all about what we had discussed, pages/weeks ago (This is what happens when the game stalls and I don't go back to re-read).

Did I say I wanted him lynched? Did ZazieR?

I thought that was the purpose for voting.. Guess you don't feel the same in all cases. If this is the only answer available, then I'll accept it.

This break was semi's idea, not yours. Stop presenting it as such.

Had no idea I was doing so. Even still, the proof is in the pudding, so everyone knows better, just in case I ended up presenting it the way you say. No biggie...

it wasn't an intimate discussion, looking back the exchange wasn't even that long. Calling him panicky was unjust. Actually, if anything, you grew “panicky” after he voted you, that's when your posting exploded.

Maybe my definition of panic & intimate is different.. wow... Anyway, intimate = getting closer, or understanding someone/something better. I think 3 days is enough to warrant calling it intimate.. I did notice that in between those 3 days, you & Zaz popped in and out, but not as much as SOG & myself obviously. This is why I say it was more intimate because it was definitely more heated than what you addressed me with.

I

don't

trust semi. Stop putting words in my mouth.

If it's not trust, then what feelings do you have about SOG when you say, "the more semi talks the more I like what he says?"

Vote: Kise

That's cute.

I will echo semi's call to quotes and proof as to where this panic is.

I'm not going to provide quotes neither. Read his posts in isolation by only displaying his post. But first, read this to understand how I feel he is

slightly

panicky. Yes, only SLIGHTLY. Read this post where I say I

measure

Infection as leaning further away from panicky than everyone else. I then said SOG in particular was closer to being in a common panic-state...

Never

said it was 100%.

There's been some misrep', alright.

[Kise]

I... I don't know. Don't even know who I will VK to be honest. Nobody is giving me enough reason to make a vote. And I wish I could give you an answer that really fulfills your question, but there's no way I'm going against my word (of not voting until I am certain it will count).

Can I ask real quick why Infection was climbing your suspect list? I only disliked his lurking, but I'd like to hear your standpoint on what he did wrong.

And yes, I'm Japanese.

[Kise]

I think your feelings about Infection is affected by how he directly interacted with you. When I read how he responded to you, it somewhat looks like he snubbed you, and I could see how you took it the wrong way. But what I got out of reading that is he explained why he felt weird about it as a whole--He had the impression that SOG did not want to let Zaz get hammered, despite the random-vote SOG placed on her, which Infection didn't consider random. He thought they were the mafia, and by voting for each other, they'd distance themselves.

I understood how he was thinking, and although I didn't jump to conclusions about SOG & Zaz's relationship (if there is any), I at least gave Infection credit for trying to come out of the RVS. He was the first one to get serious if I recall it right.

But.. now that you've brought it to my attention upon a re-read, I can see how you took it when he says "Your defense of SOG/Zazie is noted." It's been over a week, and I don't remember how I felt when I first read that line of his; was probably waiting for you and him to go back-and-forth a little more so I could fully understand why he said that.

[Kise]

Thirded.. or however you would say.

Death Note is a cool show and all, but show us some love in here, Zazie.

[Kise]

{Activity Post}

[Kise]

Zazie, this game has only stretched 2 or 3 pages since your last update. It would take about 20-30 minutes maximum to read through what you've missed here.

[Kise]

This looks like a job for meeee
Sooo everybody! Just follow meeee
'Cuz we need a little.. cooon-trover-syyy
'Cuz it feels so EMP-TY without meeee

(There's a message behind those lyrics that I'm trying to imply. I'll wait for OP to come back for more thorough discussion, but

FoS: Zazier

)

[Kise]

Simulpost... Meh, I'll keep the FoS.

[Kise]

Stop simulposting!

FoS on you for having time to analyze, as you put it, in other games (the two of us are in 3 or 4 other games I think). This is the smallest game you & I are a part of, so even though you explained yourself, I still don't see how you can't comment on a stalling game.

Exactly how much analyzation do you plan to post in this thread?

[Kise]

OOG, it is bothering me. There is only 1 other game we're in that you're also not posting in at all, but on the other hand, there are 2 other games I can think of that you're quite committed to. I can't speak on whether this is a mafia tactic of yours, since you haven't flipped in either of those games yet, but...

Vote: ZazieR

[Kise]

Off-topic:
Happy birthday, SOG.

(BTW, OOG = out of game.)

[Kise]

What the...!? Zazie, you say you are hinted to SOG's alignment based on his vote, and then OP comes in and hammers you w/ little to say... but I get shot??? That's it! We're no longer facebook friends!

[Kise]

..... well...
I actually ended up in hell..

Can you send an angel to come down here and give me a lift?

[Kise]

Maybe because I took your #2 spot?

[Kise]

BTW, you were a great partner, Sotty. Would have been a beautiful game for scum if Zaz' thought I was voting her simply for pressure.

[Kise]

You

were

wrong.. You shot the wrong guy