Mini 783: Cowboy Bebop Mafia - Game Over, Space Cowboy

[Vi]

HEY hey hey wait wait wait etc. etc. etc.

Juls, the post where you mentioned that PokerFace kinda slipped that he had a name...

I have seen/heard tales from Moratorioum of Juls getting frustraited deeply at a game even one as simple as a mishmash game so I already know part of the story checks out.

To the best of my knowledge, my "character" name is not one of the characters in Cowboy Bebop (I would need to verify that though, it has been years since I watched)...

but you kinda just told us that you have a main character's name

...I would be interested to know how many people do/don't have main character names but I don't know how to ask it without revealing potentially too much detail. NOTE: I am not asking that question at this point just thinking out loud, do not answer it and blame me for you answering!

That PokerFace quote is incorrect (a typo; that was the quote you responded to before this point). What quote

should

be there?

[don_johnson]

you seem to misrep my posts. it could be misunderstanding, but you seem to be starting with the idea that i am scum and trying to flesh out a case with every post i make. i think i have expressed some valid analysis in regards to the juls claim and players responses, but you seem to ignore them.

maybe we just disagree. maybe its that you just don't know me. i am willing to work with you, but i certainly have no reason to trust you at this point, and if i can't get the lynches i want first then i would certainly vote for someone like you.

[Juls]

@Vi:

Also I think it is probably a good idea to hear Juls role 'flavor'. Not sure which of the show's character would rationally be a miller in this game.

[Vi]

Interesting... Yet I find a Miller claim to be rather plausible in this game. I think this is worth pursuing.

Unvote: Gorrad
Vote: PokerFace

(L-4)

Flavor claim and/or die.

@mod: Vote count, etc.

[Zilla]

Re: VP Baltar

You're reserved this game compared to most of the other players. A lot of your stances wouldn't incite anybody.
You comment (softly) on ShadowGirl and Don John's case on her. In fact, you claim Don John is looking pro-town in your latest post. It's like you're backing down from any significant confrontation.
You hardly comment on the Gorrad case. You haven't said much about Rhinox. You did a lot of setup speculation. All-in-all, I don't think you've offered your solid opinion on anyone.
And that is why I find you slightly scummy.

As for the "speaking for me" bit, what happened to your stance back here?

Plus, she still DID give you an answer which you may not of naturally had. I don't know anymore.

Would you ever point out an attack as being wrong if you thought someone was clearly misrepping another player?

Suddenly you've switched stances regarding my attempts to clear things up?

@ Vi:

Juls recently listed 4 things that make pro-town sense for a miller, things I don't normally consider about the role. On a base level though, it seems so typical of a bold scum move. I can now see the pro-town side of claiming miller, but I still don't 100% believe it due to WIFOM. Essentially, I'll only truly believer her when she's dead, which she has asked for herself.

Also, I may be biased since I ALWAYS get nightkilled, but I'd personally play miller to attract scum's NK rather than create this WIFOM situation.

I don't like VP's last post. I don't like him backing off of Don John for the WIFOM reason that "scum wouldn't be that accusatory early-game." What warranted these comments? He wasn't exactly being hard on Don John before.

[Zilla]

I agree with Juls asking for the vig to kill her if he's not 80% sure on someone else. That seems like a pro-town move to me.

[don_johnson]

I agree with Juls asking for the vig to kill her if he's not 80% sure on someone else. That seems like a pro-town move to me.

just to clarify. it is a pro town move provided that "miller" is the extent of juls' role. however, juls alluded to the fact that there was more to her role. that is why i question the motive. if there is more to her role then she should not be encouraging a night 1 vig.

[PokerFace]

I think I feel where he's coming from here, that last wall of text of his diffused some of my suspicions. I don't agree with him, and think he's assuming other people think the same way he does and if they don't, they're not town, but I think I understand his mindset. Further, aside from that original questionnaire, he hasn't done anything in the same vein that props up a false reason to trust someone.

Huh? I posted that to start discussion and get reads on you guys using different/simular questions. What did it have to do with trust?

again: what is a "framer"?

A framer is a mafioso that can target any player at night. That player will appear guilty to any cop investigations that night

Post 184
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 59#1651159
Zilla seems to look into things more thurough then I normally do. Couple of things seem like paranoia or overeactions. Her read of Vi is what gave me this feel. I don't see Vi as some kind of hynotist. Zillas methods Feel wierd. Wierdness =/= scuminess but still its something I didn't follow well.

Who do i find scummy?:

Rhinox has gotten better, I understand his viewpoint for now.

Unvote: Rhinox

I'll say he's closer to nuetral then scum now.

Players that have not said enough for me to get a read on them:
Gorrad, Forbidden, Zeenon

I play alot on irc mafia. On irc mafia many people are under the bad impression that there are alot of non-sane cops. There are some but they aren't in every game. And so claiming you could be insane or that you doubt another players sanity is viewed as a scum tell on irc. Investigating a claimed miller does prove nothing. VP's statements seem to come off as more of a suggestion than a hypothetical. I he could be scum trying to ruin any cops before they appear. Also alot of his comments feel very loose like he is trying to be out of the way of giving suspicions.

_________________

Can I get a vote count? Have I got 3 or 4 on me?
Getting put under the light is rare for me. Oh cool, lights bright enough I can see my shadow. Looks just like me cept I didn't realize I was that muscular.
<<Makes Shadow pupets
<<Likes making odd jokes to amuse himself.
<<Plays with Korlash probably way too much.

My Response to Juls:
I don't consider what I was asking as flavor fishing. Fishing is alot more subtle then asking for it in my book. Asking for it blantantly is pretty much like throwing a hand grenade into the water. That's not fishing. I also thought I only asked you about it once. Not sure where you got twice.

As far as why I asked you for it, EVERY game I've ever been in has had players give their role flavor when they claimed. Thus I normally consider it standard procedure to get flavor with every them claim. That's why I asked you for it. You could have claimed vanilla that early and I still would have made that suggestion. If you want I can take time to link some games I played in/read where flavor was always given with role claim.
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8898
In Death Note mafia one of the many reasons IcemanE was lynched for claiming Ryuk was because he gave flavor late and it didn't seem to make sence. In Doctor Who Mafia 2 ther were ALOT of role claims and each one had to give flavor. They ones who didn't have flavor were indeed the scum.
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6617
Not all of them were given safe claims. I caught the Last scum because he fake claimed being my real role. Yosarian2 was wrong to think that character wasn't in the game. Want me to find more game examples were flavor given with role was standard procedure?

@Vi:

Also I think it is probably a good idea to hear Juls role 'flavor'. Not sure which of the show's character would rationally be a miller in this game.

Again I fail to see how this quote says anything about my own role, Whether or not I have a name or anything like that. I think you're reading too much into this. I assumed a miller role would have a name. Something like giving others a guilty read normally has more to it than "You just do it".

I want town to know that there is more to my role than just miller and just because I have claimed it doesn't mean

I have told scum to give me a free ride

to the end of the game.

Huh? Did you typo something here?

In other news,

Vote Pokerface

I still want to hear some further explanation on why you laid off Juls so easy when you brought up the idea of flavour claiming first (my post in 166 is specifically what I'm referring to). Also, your play in the first few pages of this game is very different from what it is now that the suspicion ball is rolling on other players.

Why did I lighten up on it? The safe claims questioning for one and also...

To the best of my knowledge, my "character" name is not one of the characters in Cowboy Bebop (I would need to verify that though, it has been years since I watched)

This kinda made sence with what I know of my role and what I would expect from Jahudo

Also in case some of you are wondering, I see no reason for me to claim my role and or flavor at this time.

@don_johnson
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 12#1651912
I don't get why you'd be content with lynching so many? I don't think that many players can be scum and scum are the only people you should want to lynch. Settling for just about an lynch feels pretty scumish.

[don_johnson]

I don't get why you'd be content with lynching so many? I don't think that many players can be scum and scum are the only people you should want to lynch. Settling for just about an lynch feels pretty scumish.

how many day 1 lynches successfully end in a scum lynch? do you prefer a no lynch if you don't get the lynch of your choice?

[Zilla]

...

unvote
Vote: Pokerface

Where to start? Backpedaling, dodging questions, no good explanation for his unvote of Rhinox, fishy behavior regarding his stance on flavor claiming (safe claim idea made you back off? How is that any more relevant in this game than it was in the others?), no real offense on anyone now that he's being considered...

[Zilla]

Assuming Vi's count is right, that's L -3

[Zilla]

Also his whole thing about VP just looks wrong, but VP doesn't want me saying things for him, so I'll let him handle that.

[PokerFace]

I don't get why you'd be content with lynching so many? I don't think that many players can be scum and scum are the only people you should want to lynch. Settling for just about an lynch feels pretty scumish.

how many day 1 lynches successfully end in a scum lynch?

About 35-40% end in scum lynch. 60-65% don't

do you prefer a no lynch if you don't get the lynch of your choice?

No lynching fails and is almost never a good idea

Still not quite sure of your answer since you answered my question with a question. Think you could elaborate? If say your number one suspect wasn't going to be lynched would you just auto agree with whatever else was on the table?

[PokerFace]

...

unvote
Vote: Pokerface

Where to start? Backpedaling, dodging questions, no good explanation for his unvote of Rhinox, fishy behavior regarding his stance on flavor claiming (safe claim idea made you back off? How is that any more relevant in this game than it was in the others?), no real offense on anyone now that he's being considered...

Not sure how I back pedaled.

As far as dodging questions, no player likes giving info about there own role. Its my policy only to give it if your lynch is coming pending l-2or1 and proxsimity of a deadline, everybody is massclaiming, or you have role infor that gaurantees the town a win.

When another players claims there role outside of these reasons I am suspicious and it is normal possible to get all of the claim so they can weasle out of or into some reasonable comfort later on in the game.

[Vi]

I don't see Vi as some kind of hynotist.

I knew this Foucault pendulum was a rip-off. [/foxtrot]

Also, I like how you ask yourself who you find scummy, and barely answer it.

Again I fail to see how this quote says anything about my own role, Whether or not I have a name or anything like that. I think you're reading too much into this.

I assumed a miller role would have a name.

Something like giving others a guilty read normally has more to it than "You just do it".

Why.
I also don't understand the last sentence.

I see no reason for me to claim my role and or flavor at this time.

I see no reason for me to unvote, then.
Also, that impromptu RPing thing about the pressure you're under really doesn't come off well to me.

I'm not sure I like this new PF-d_j discussion, although that may be because my personal favorite policy is Lynch All

[PokerFace]

EBWOP
...When another players claims

their

role outside of these reasons I am originally suspicious and it is normal

policy

to get all of the claim so they can

not

weasle out of or weasel into some reasonable comfort later on in the game.

Basically don't let someone get away unless you think they are town

[Vi]

EBWOP
...When another players claims

their

role outside of these reasons I am originally suspicious and it is normal

policy

to get all of the claim so they can

not

weasle out of or weasel into some reasonable comfort later on in the game.

Basically don't let someone get away unless you think they are town

I disagree. Let me show you my Role PM from another Theme game.

<Insert>

Welcome, Richard Nixon(from Real Life). You resigned to avoid impeachment and that made you surly. Then they resurrected you 1000 years later, and you were elected president of Earth. It is your duty to protect your subjects…er…citizens.

You are the Townie Wiretapper.

Active Abilities—You may use one a day.
<Wiretap> You will place a wiretap on the targeted player’s body. Each day, it will reveal a bit of information about that player.

Passive Abilities
<Watergate> You will show up as a Serial Killer(or the closest equivalent) to all investigations that target you.
<Robot> You are a robot. This may or may not have any in-game significance.
<Mutual> You know that the G-Man(from Half-Life) is in the game and is not town-aligned.

You win when all threats to the town are dead.

Mod note: The first day a wiretap is there, gets the flavor text of player’s role PM. The second day, gets one random non-factional ability. The third day, gets role name+alignment. If he wiretaps mod, same thing as others happen.

Guess how much of that I saw any rational sense in claiming D1.

Just <Watergate>.

[PokerFace]

Again I fail to see how this quote says anything about my own role, Whether or not I have a name or anything like that. I think you're reading too much into this.

I assumed a miller role would have a name.

Something like giving others a guilty read normally has more to it than "You just do it".

Why.
I also don't understand the last sentence.

Bassically someone that gives off guilty read should be a character that would have a reason to look guilty. Saying it happens just because that's what you are is like calling the sky blue.

Basically I would expect a character that had a confusing appearance to be a miller. In the context of this game I would have probably guessed that guy who was like a man but also a women (That guy in episode 12 or 13) would be a miller. He has a confusing appearance.

[PokerFace]

Tags got cut somehow

Again I fail to see how this quote says anything about my own role, Whether or not I have a name or anything like that. I think you're reading too much into this.

I assumed a miller role would have a name.

Something like giving others a guilty read normally has more to it than "You just do it".

Why.
I also don't understand the last sentence.

Bassically someone that gives off guilty read should be a character that would have a reason to look guilty. Saying it happens just because that's what you are is like calling the sky blue.

Basically I would expect a character that had a confusing appearance to be a miller. In the context of this game I would have probably guessed that guy who was like a man but also a women (That guy in episode 12 or 13) would be a miller. He has a confusing appearance.

[Vi]

Hey PokerFace. Have you taken a look at, say, the last three parts of the Rules post?
I think that would completely invalidate your example (not that it was very good in the first place).

[Zilla]

Yet another time I wish I could vote harder...

[PokerFace]

Hey PokerFace. Have you taken a look at, say, the last three parts of the Rules post?
I think that would completely invalidate your example (not that it was very good in the first place).

hmm your right I think I did confuse part of that.

Spike's old gang was the Red Dragon not the White Tiger right? Seems I'm trying to rationalize too much in terms of the series.

Still I'll only claim at L-2 or 1 pending deadline proxmity. Basically claiming with only a day before a dead = bad. Claiming with a week before deadline = good.

[Jahudo]

Come and visit bright and sunny

Tijuana

, "Where the Carnitas are out of this World!" and our roasted pork is good too!

Paid for by the Travel Bureau of Tijuana, a subsidiary of Asteroids Inc.

Vote Count #4 of Day 1

PokerFace – Juls, VP Baltar, Vi, Zilla
Gorrad – Rhinox
ShadowGirl – don_johnson
Zilla - hohum

Not Voting – ShadowGirl, charlatan, Gorrad, ZEEnon.


With 12 alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch!
Day 1 deadline will be Monday May 18th at noon EST.

[don_johnson]

Still not quite sure of your answer since you answered my question with a question. Think you could elaborate?

If say your number one suspect wasn't going to be lynched would you just auto agree with whatever else was on the table

?

no. i would go to number two, and so forth. how exactly would you like me to elaborate? your question was stupid. i believe i mentioned four names. you call it "many". it is four i am most suspicious of, suspicion being entirely relative.

[Vi]

Hey PokerFace. Have you taken a look at, say, the last three parts of the Rules post?
I think that would completely invalidate your example (not that it was very good in the first place).

hmm your right I think I did confuse part of that.

Spike's old gang was the Red Dragon not the White Tiger right? Seems I'm trying to rationalize too much in terms of the series.

I've not done enough "research" to see the relevance, but deciding on Gren's actual gang isn't the point anyway.

1) This isn't Lynch All Indeterminate Genders. (thankfully...)
2) The White Tigers (a.k.a. Town) are only incidentally mentioned in any of the sources I've checked. Thus, the next point.
3) The only people I would expect to have names in this game are the recurring characters - who have conveniently been revealed to be in the scum faction(s). (Vicious is obvSK.)
4) It's --still-- quite plausible for there to be a generic Miller character in this game.