Spolium wrote:Goatrevolt wrote:Are you serious? I answered that question every time you asked it. In fact, 4 times to be exact. Are you deliberately ignoring my answer? Maybe it wasn't the answer you wanted so you just assumed your question remained unanswered? What is it?
Yes, I'm serious.
Goatrevolt wrote:Here are the 4 times I answer it:
<snip>
So you're accusing me of dodging a simple question, when in reality I answered it every single time you asked it.
No, you did not. I asked - repeatedly - why you assumed that sekinj was directly informed of a roleblock
as opposed to assuming it based on a lack of information
, and all of your answers amounted to "
Spring said she was roleblocked, therefore I assumed she was roleblocked
". This does not address the question which I was asking.
Question: Why did you assume sekinj was informed.
Answer: Because when she said "I was blocked" the implication is: I was targeted by a roleblock. I didn't think someone would claim to be roleblocked unless they were sure (aka informed) that they were blocked.
Why is that not an answer? That directly answers the question. You can't just wave your arm around and say it doesn't answer the question and then use it to toss baseless suspicion on me.
Spolium, give me a sample answer to the question. I want to see what a "real" answer looks like. What answer were you looking for?
Spolium wrote:I missed your request for that information - trying to establish my stance here is particularly frustrating as I can't fathom how you keep missing the point.
I missed the point entirely. I don't know why you didn't just point it out. It was clear I didn't understand what you were going for, so why not just say "This is my point"?
Spolium wrote:You've been pushing for my lynch since D3. At the start of D4, when sekinj reported being blocked and Spring speculated that she could therefore be a roleblocker, the
first thing you did
was make a speculation based on the assumption that I am scum: "
That adds another possible reason for the lack of kill night 1. Spolium tried to make the kill and was blocked
". This is one sign of an attempt to drum up further suspicion against me.
You're really misrepresenting me here. I never implied that this meant you were scum. All I said was "Here is another possible explanation." I have not used this a single time whatsoever as means to push a case.
I go into the thread. I see sekinj is blocked. I see spring targeted her. I connect the dots. I think about who else spring targeted, you. I think about the missing N1 kill. I point out the possibility. You overreact, and assume I'm using it as some insidious means to drum up suspicion on you.
Spolium wrote:Further, as Spring has pointed out, you posited only one out of any number of possible scenarios (one example would be, what if sekinj lied about the roleblock and Spring's choice to target her was coincidental?); why pick out this single one? Your stated suspicion of me suggests that you were inclined to point it out because it supported your case against me, not because it is the most likely scenario.
I mentioned sekinj lying and dismissed it as unlikely.
Spolium wrote:Further, as I have pointed out, you did not explain why scum-Spolium would assume this was the result of a roleblock. You have argued at length that if sekinj received explicit confirmation of a roleblock then so would scum-Spolium attempting a NK, yet you fail to acknowledge the possibility that explict confirmation of roleblocking did NOT occur. Why? It seems fair to suspect that you are more interested in pushing suspicion on me than considering all the possibilities.
How can I acknowledge a possibility I didn't think of? There is a jar of coins. All the visible coins are pennies. I reach in and pull out a penny. You come up and ask why I didn't grab the quarter. I say "I didn't realize there was a quarter in the jar. I thought it was all pennies." You say, "But why didn't you consider the possibility of a quarter?" Me, "because when I see a jar of pennies, I just instantly assume all the coins in the jar are pennies." Etc.
You're asking me why I didn't think of a possibility. My answer is: "I don't know, I just didn't consider it." Explain how that makes me scum again? I jumped to conclusions that "I was blocked" means "I was explicitly informed I was blocked" and I'm suddenly scum because I didn't even consider an alternative possibility?
Furthermore, your entire push here is based on the premise that I'm twisting facts and ignoring possibilities for the purpose of making you look as scummy as possible. Considering I haven't once pushed this as a reason anyone should consider you as scum, your case is pretty manufactured and weak.
Spolium wrote:One example could be that Jebus was also a paranoid doc, and his N2 targeting of you would've resulted in roleblock confirmation if you were a scum power role. That's just one possibility though - as I've said already my basis for this observation is the fact that you jumped to a conclusion about the nature of RB confirmation, and I can only speculate about how you would gain this information as scum.
Nice dismissal. Unsupported speculation on Jebus, or the easy-to-fall-back on "you're scum and thus you'd just know somehow". You also ignored my point about how if I actually had inside information I would have had correct information. You're accusing me of having inside information when I was wrong.
Ridiculous.
Spolium wrote:I construe it as suspicious because the question is fundamentally flawed. I have pointed out this flaw, yet you have not addressed it directly. Scum ask questions to present an illusion of scumhunting, so this stands out to me. Perhaps I should explain once more?
You ask me whether I received roleblock confirmation when I was a claimed VT. Why would a VT receive confirmation of a roleblock? Why assume that
anyone
would receive explicit confirmation of a roleblock in this game? The foundation of your roleblock confirmation question is not sound, yet you expect to get meangingful information from it.
Here are the possible scenarios/answers to your question,
Spolium: Were you informed at all about being roleblocked night 1 or 2?
:
1. townSpolium answers "no"
2. townSpolium answers "yes"
3. scumSpolium answers "no"
4. scumSpolium answers "yes"
2 and 4 are unthinkable, because a VT would not typically receive any confirmation of a roleblock due to a lack of role - I can think of no reason to assume this, and you have provided no explanation for assuming so. The remaining options are therefore 1 and 3, which tell us nothing because even if sekinj DID receive explicit confirmation of her role there is no reason to think that a VT would receive such confirmation (or that a goon would admit to doing so). I see literally no use for your question.
First of all, this is extremely nitpicky, overstated, and ignores the context. You pull out one question I asked, try to prove how it couldn't generate anything useful, and then try to imply that it makes me scum for asking a question without a large capability for useful information. I didn't realize every townie's post had to be jam-packed with only the most expertly crafted questions designed to get every drop of useful info.
Your push here is based on the idea that I'm giving the "illusion of scumhunting" and your proof is one question that isn't likely to generate useful info. Again, why did you ignore the rest of my post. Why did you ignore the rest of my posts today? Ignoring the context.
With that being said. There is possibility for useful information. I've seen vanilla townies informed of a roleblock. As scum, you might decide to answer that you were roleblocked out of fear that you get nailed for not claiming to be roleblocked when sekinj did claim it, etc.
Although, we are so far detracted from the source here and dwelling on irrelevancy. I asked the question simply because I saw sekinj claim to be blocked, and that if spring is the blocker you would have been blocked as well. So I just thought, "hey spolium, did you get informed of a block?" That's it. I didn't stop and think about the 19 different possible replies that could be generated and whether any of them could produce useful information. I didn't spend 30 minutes thinking about that question and whether anything beneficial would come from it. I just thought it, and asked it. You're stretching really hard here to drum this into something scummy.
Spolium wrote:Because my D3 vote for RC was based on what I perceived to be a slip, and I was very wrong. I also have no desire for my vote to be misinterpreted as OMGUS. Lynx's result on you strongly suggests you are town, and I am currently weighing this against the possibilities that he was naive, or that you are a godfather. Oh, and because I think sekinj currently deserves a vote more than you do.
In short, I'll vote you when I'm sure enough that you're scum. Have some patience, eh?
It's not an issue of patience. It's just that I see you roundabout push suspicion on me all day that finally culminates in one long post and the epic conclusion is a...FOS. You also have no stance taken on anyone else throughout the entire day. You don't commit to me. You haven't committed to anyone else (until last post).
Spolium wrote:@Goat:
you've expressed suspicion of sekinj for a while now, and she has in fact been your second choice for a lynch consistently since the beginning of D3. However, I cannot find a single point where you ask her questions, push her for information or otherwise do anything other than state that you find her scummy (except for when Spring directly asked). Can you explain?
I thought I gave reasons for why I thought she was scummy on day 3. I'll have to go back and check.
But no, I haven't really pushed her very hard. I pressured her some on her RB stance today, but Don covered it all in the meantime. I don't really have an explanation for why I haven't pressured her. She hasn't been my top suspect, so it's not been a burning need, and there hasn't been anything directly I've found scummy enough to jump on and pressure her over (excepting the RB thing).
Have you "pressured" her at all prior to your vote here?
----
spring wrote:@Goat, why is voting for nolynch a towntell?
It's not a towntell. It's a possible cop-tell. The valid townie reason to suggest a no lynch is for information gaining purposes. Cop is the only role which can guarantee information enough to justify it. If she had claimed vanilla townie, then this would be a reason to lynch her. As cop, though, it at least fits.
----
Rhinox wrote:@goat/Spolium: When I read sekinj saying "I was blocked", I assumed she meant "I got no result", because I believe it is the convention to be told you got no result rather than being told you were specifically roleblocked. However, were I to receive no result, I would assume I was blocked. Thus, I don't fault sekinj for saying she was blocked, although the way I would have worded it would have been something akin to "I got no result, so I assume I was blocked", rather than the certainty and vagueness the phrase "I was blocked" implies.
I'm not really sure about the convention here. On one site I play, a lot of mods inform everyone that they were roleblocked, regardless of whether or not they are making an action or are vanilla or not. I've been roleblocked once on this site. It was by a jailkeeper, and I was directly informed that I was blocked. I kind of assumed "you were roleblocked, your action failed" was the standard for dealing with failed action via RB.
Spolium wrote:@Rhinox - I agree there is a possibility that sekinj is lying about being blocked and that Spring targeting her was coincidental, though there is the other possibility that she is a scum power role and was actually blocked. The possibility that Spring is a paranoid doc is therefore still valid.
I doubt she's lying about being blocked. It's a risky play to make when the scum roleblocker is dead. You'd have to go in trying to convince people that there is a second scum roleblocker alive who blocked you, and has mysteriously not been a factor in the game until night 3.
Far more likely is that she was legitimately blocked by spring.
--
Ice9 wrote:I think we should be lynching one of Spring/Spolium
I also think that Rhinox's claim is a little bit too unbelievable and worry about him coming up with a magic guilty in lylo
About spring:
Goatrevolt wrote:Ice9 wrote:Spring is a second mafia roleblocker. After no one counterclaimed budja and she had been run up, she counterclaimed her own scumpartner under the false assumption that there just wasn't a doctor at all, in order to survive the day herself and hopefully get falsecleared for the remainder of the game.
What explains the no kill N1 if this is the case?
Sekinj, can you answer that question as well.
Regarding Rhinox, I think he's town simply because I don't see the motivation as scum to confirm me as innocent. Plus, his play end of yesterday->today strike me as townie behaviorally anyway.