Mini 754 - Frogs Mafia Game, Set and Match.

[Raging Rabbit]

You seriously think I have emptily declared that Gorrad is scum? What the hell have you done in your reread? His whole thing on Cay/Izzy confirmed him to be scum. He says that one neighbor has to be scum, based on one game. Then instead of forcing the other neighbor to claim, he goes right after cay saying that the other neighbor would have already claimed at town. Note that Archon did not claim until later. So Gorrad basically said that the other neighbor was scum due to him not claiming, and yet he still votes cay/izzy.

Yes, this is a valid point, but you've been hammering it on and on for a really long time now and using it as an excuse to not scumhunt.

How exactly have I flown under the radar? If anyone has, it has been you. I haven't been lurking, I have been posting. Did you just miss the whole conversation I had with mbf? You truly think I haven't be participating? And I have explained why I think the izzy wagon to be bs. I really hate repeating myself.

Lurking isn't flying under the radar, since not posting draws negative attention to oneself (I actually sorta surprised I wasn't under more scrunity, but whatever. Again, apologies for that). You were flying under the radar because you were doing the minimal amount of actions necassary to give off the appearance of scumhunting and of being active rather than a lurker, while actually saying very little new for most of the game.

[Shanba]

Vote Count:

5: mikeburnfire

(MacLock, ckd, dahill1, Citizen karne, Izzy)

3: Dizzyizzyb13

(Gorrad, TSQ, MBF)

2: scotmany

(Raging Rabbit)

1: Gorrad

(scotmany)
Not Voting:

none

I love having inherently active players. This is great, I haven't really needed to replace anyone.

Also, apologies to MBF. Vote counts are something I find quite difficult. It's so easy to miss that little black unvote vote.

In accordance with deadlines rules, Deadline is May 9. Updating thread title.

[dahill1]

lynch order preference at the moment:
MBF
Izzy (although it is slightly rising, will explain later)\

When? After I'm dead?

I meant for today because depending on your alignment the list could change

lynch order preference at the moment:
MBF
Izzy (although it is slightly rising, will explain later)\
Gorrad

Are MBF and I both bussing one partner and not bussing the other, then?

It's quite possible, yes.

Regarding my comment on Izzy earlier (how she was rising in scumminess), it's because her recent posts which are contentless excepting "lynch mbf or lynch gorrad". i haven't seen much scumhunting from her yet, and i'd like to hear her opinions on some of the other players in the game.

[scotmany12]

You seriously think I have emptily declared that Gorrad is scum? What the hell have you done in your reread? His whole thing on Cay/Izzy confirmed him to be scum. He says that one neighbor has to be scum, based on one game. Then instead of forcing the other neighbor to claim, he goes right after cay saying that the other neighbor would have already claimed at town. Note that Archon did not claim until later. So Gorrad basically said that the other neighbor was scum due to him not claiming, and yet he still votes cay/izzy.

Yes, this is a valid point, but you've been hammering it on and on for a really long time now and using it as an excuse to not scumhunt.

How exactly have I flown under the radar? If anyone has, it has been you. I haven't been lurking, I have been posting. Did you just miss the whole conversation I had with mbf? You truly think I haven't be participating? And I have explained why I think the izzy wagon to be bs. I really hate repeating myself.

Lurking isn't flying under the radar, since not posting draws negative attention to oneself (I actually sorta surprised I wasn't under more scrunity, but whatever. Again, apologies for that). You were flying under the radar because you were doing the minimal amount of actions necassary to give off the appearance of scumhunting and of being active rather than a lurker, while actually saying very little new for most of the game.

How has everything you just said differentiate me from everyone going after MBF? How does it differentiate me from everyone going after Izzy? You clearly have missed my whole conversation with MBF, if you think the only thing I have been doing was pushing for a Gorrad lynch. My guess is since you had your vote on me, you were convinced to make up a fabricated reason to make me look like scum.

[mikeburnfire]

Oh, and of those 3 points that Karne wants TSQ to address, I'd like to say that I've already addressed the first one, the second one is stupid and ends with a lie, and the third one focuses on Day 1 screwing around instead of my Day 2 actual playing.

Stop trying to scare the town into doing your bidding.

What the fuck are you talking about? What part of that was

fearmongering?

Her predecessor did not "get archon lynched", it was a

joint effort

led by your dear Gorrad. And from where I'm standing, there's nothing wrong with focusing on two main suspects (which she makes excellent points against), as long as you don't completely forget about everyone else (which I didn't really feel was the case).

So she

did

get Archon lynched. Gorrad may have pushed it, but Crywolf started it and pushed it.

You realize that you're still very probably gonna die today, right? What does scum-Scot has to lose from waiting to gain some townie points?

Yes, I'm aware. But like I said, he was the only one who could hammer me, and if he didn't there was no guarantee the lynch wagon wouldn't disband.

Why aren't you applying the "he'd look scummy for ending the day early" argument to Scot-scum, you-town? It's much stronger if that's the case, since ending the day early is very excusable if it leads to lynching scum.

Because, like I already said many many times, IT WOULD BE EASY TO KILL ME AND GET AWAY WITH IT.

How would that help, exactly? Other than give scum more info on the correct NK, that is?

Holy crap! Scumhunting helps the scum? OMG, nobody make any more posts the rest of the game.

Yes, this is a valid point, but you've been hammering it on and on for a really long time now and using it as an excuse to not scumhunt.

You are accusing scotman of being scum for doing the exact thing that Izzy has done, but declare Izzy town.

lynch order preference at the moment:
MBF
Izzy (although it is slightly rising, will explain later)\

When? After I'm dead?

I meant for today because depending on your alignment the list could change

So, in other words, YES after I am dead.

[scotmany12]

Yes, this is a valid point, but you've been hammering it on and on for a really long time now and using it as an excuse to not scumhunt.

You are accusing scotman of being scum for doing the exact thing that Izzy has done, but declare Izzy town.

Izzy, and Gorrad, and Dahill, and pretty much everyone else.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

lynch order preference at the moment:
MBF
Izzy (although it is slightly rising, will explain later)\

When? After I'm dead?

I meant for today because depending on your alignment the list could change

lynch order preference at the moment:
MBF
Izzy (although it is slightly rising, will explain later)\
Gorrad

Are MBF and I both bussing one partner and not bussing the other, then?

It's quite possible, yes.

Regarding my comment on Izzy earlier (how she was rising in scumminess), it's because her recent posts which are contentless excepting "lynch mbf or lynch gorrad". i haven't seen much scumhunting from her yet, and i'd like to hear her opinions on some of the other players in the game.

Summary of opinions in note form:

mikeburnfire - Scum. Should be hammered.
Gorrad - Also scum. Needs lynching.
dahill1 - Seems consistently productive. Lean town, don't rule out scum playing well, though.
curiouskarmadog - Behaviour consistent with past experience of CKD town play. Probable town.
Raging Rabbit - Lean town-aligned idiot. Play is more stupid than scummy.
scotmany12 - Tunelled on Gorrad. Good target, though. Lean town, possible scum, particularly in the unlikely event that Gorrad flips town. Also potential serial killer if we have multiple scum groups, though I think that's unlikely.
MacavityLock - Productive. Forward thinking. Lean town.
Citizen Karne - Productive, if misguided. Weak town lead, possible scum.
Thestatusquo - Potential third scum. Null read so far, potentially scummy behaviour today could be due to personal issues. Still.. my favoured target for member #1 of a three man team.

[Thestatusquo]

Will respond to CK later tonight, but izzy, what the hell is "Potentially scummy behavior?"

You can't just say someone is being "potentially scummy" without saying what it is that makes them "potentially scummy"

[Citizen Karne]

lynch order preference at the moment:
MBF
Izzy (although it is slightly rising, will explain later)\
Gorrad

Are MBF and I both bussing one partner and not bussing the other, then?

Personally, I think so.

You're REALLY not Rosso.

In posting style, yes.

[Citizen Karne]

Scot is probably scum.

He's spent the entire game flying under the radar,

Really? You really think so?

[Citizen Karne]

MOD only one person is voting scotmany12

.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

Will respond to CK later tonight, but izzy, what the hell is "Potentially scummy behavior?"

You can't just say someone is being "potentially scummy" without saying what it is that makes them "potentially scummy"

I didn't feel the need to repeat what other people have already stated.

[Thestatusquo]

No one has made a case on me? What the hell are you talking about? Stop poisoning my well...

[MacavityLock]

Apologies, but I'll be very limited over the next week and a half. (Not enough for official LA, but see sig.)

[mikeburnfire]

I didn't feel the need to repeat what other people have already stated.

Of course. Why bother doing any work yourself anyway?

[Gorrad]

Izzy, that logic might be ok at times, but TSQ's asking for a specific here. What precisely of the case are you citing here to justify your statement?

[Citizen Karne]

Will respond to CK later tonight, but izzy, what the hell is "Potentially scummy behavior?"

You can't just say someone is being "potentially scummy" without saying what it is that makes them "potentially scummy"

I didn't feel the need to repeat what other people have already stated.

Can you cite where others have already said to what you are alluding?

[curiouskarmadog]

will get to this in a couple days.

[Citizen Karne]

We have stalled. :/

[mikeburnfire]

I'm probably wasting my time putting all this effort into this game, but you guys are going to need all the help you can get tomorrow.

scotmany12 is town. He defended me when he should have lynched me. Nobody cry "WIFOM" because it's stupid for scum to sacrifice good play for a gambit like that, and scot isn't the type from what I've seen of him.

MacavityLock is likely town. He's participated in the game and made cases against me. No matter how flawed those cases may be, it shows he's actually trying to find scum.

Raging Rabbit is unknown, though I agree with Izzy that he looks more like foolish town than scum. Rabbit hasn't participated in the game. Even though he recently stopped lurking, his play sucks. He claims Izzy looks town, even though he has done NOTHING townish lately. He tries to justify his vote on scotman with a seriously flawed argument. He accepts the reasons for voting me without contest, comments on a few of the other high-profile players, then intentionally avoids giving his opinion on other players. All these reasons put together lead me to believe that he is just an incredibly stubborn townie who takes the easy way out and doesn't bother straining himself to get info on the players who aren't in the spotlight.

DizzyIzzyb13 is terrible. He has played absolutely, positively terrible. No scumhunting at all in the slightest. Essentially refuses to play the game. However... *heavy breath* .... he could be a townie. The worst townie I've ever seen, but it's possible. He could just be stuck on me because of a deep-rooted OMGUS feeling. That aside, way WAY too many people have declared him "obvious town" even though he is most definitely not. I would say he is scum.

Thestatusquo is most probably scum. He's done almost no scumhunting this game and has instead chosen to argue about smaller things such as why pbpa's are bad or pointing out different types of logical fallacies without giving his opinion on the person. I would expect more of him. His steadfast resolve to Izzy's lynch gives me pause, as that the only hunting he's done all game. Whether this actual scumhunting or severe distancing I'm not sure.

dahill is possibly scum. I like the way he thinks things out, but I don't like the reasons he gave for voting me (IE "I agree with half of MBF's posts, but he looks wishy-washy"). I also don't like how he's picked the three easiest targets as his fantasy scumteam draft and then uses bad logic to make it work (IE "The scum are bussing one partner and attacking the other")

CKD is unknown. He's been absent for long periods at a time. He seems to be working at this game when he is here, at least more than others. If scum, he's likely to be scum with Karne and unlikely to be scum with TSQ.

Gorrad is unknown, though I would lean town. He has made some unpopular arguments, but I tend to find myself agreeing with them more often then not. Even the neighbor-scum arguments and metas, while not particularly grounded in theory, have merit that nobody will acknowledge. However, his logic about all the scum being on my wagon is flawed, and he should know better. Also, tunnelvision.

Citizen Karne has worked on that pbpa, but he also has shown that he isn't paying attention. Also speculates on the Izzy-Gorrad-MBF scumteam, which is just stupid. Possible scum.

In the end, I'm almost positive that at least one of TSQ and Izzy is scum, if not both. I've got a headache, so I'll do more later if I have time.

[Gorrad]

If Izzy is the worst townie you've ever seen, you've led a lucky life. She's not a townie, of course, but I've seen town act MUCH worse.

See also: Weather Mafia's Blackberry.

[mikeburnfire]

Upon closer inspection of Karne, I'm going to change my stance from possible scum to probable town. While his behavior has been suspicious, his interactions with other players leave very few combinations for a 3-man scum team. If he is scum, it's with Rabbit and Izzy. I'm willing to bet that the scum are among these 6 people:

Raging Rabbit
DizzyIzzyb13
Thestatusquo
dahill
CKD
Gorrad

If Izzy is scum like I anticipate, I would rule out Gorrad and dahill as his partners, leaving two of (TSQ, Rabbit, CKD).

[Raging Rabbit]

What the fuck are you talking about? What part of that was fearmongering?

I meant to quote the previous paragraph, which was:

3) I am feeling the heat because we're about to kill a townie, tomorrow we will be at lynch or lose, the town will be equally divided on whether to lynch Gorrad or Izzy, and the person who holds the deciding vote has lurked the entire game.

So she did get Archon lynched. Gorrad may have pushed it, but Crywolf started it and pushed it.

Yeah, but it took most of the town as well, and I don't see Izzy as more to blame for it than to next guy, if anything Gorrad is. So I don't get why you singled her out on this, being neighbors with archon is a non-factor here.

Holy crap! Scumhunting helps the scum? OMG, nobody make any more posts the rest of the game.

Are you being intentionally dense? I was talking about posting my

townreads

, everyone I actually suspect I already listed. I don't see what we have to gain from me detailing out exactly how sure I am each of the players I haven't specifically mentioned is town.

You are accusing scotman of being scum for doing the exact thing that Izzy has done, but declare Izzy town.

I see where you're coming from with this, and this is probably also strongly a gut thing, but:
1) Izzy is pushing a relevant suspect that's most likely gonna be lynched and therefore will be held accountalbe for her actions tomorrow, which is only a good move if you're scum as well and even then her actions don't feel like bussing.
2) I don't feel Izzy's intentionally trying to lay low.
3) Izzy has other redeeming factors. Namely, her predecessors' claim and her wagon sucking hard.



I really hate how the seems the only people who actually read my thoughts appear to be Scot and MBF, who are bound to reply the way they did. Others (say, Karne) seem like they read two lines and put it off at "shut up, lurker moron". I'm starting to think cathcing up on this wasn't worth my time and effort. This game is also stalling hard, and I'm tempted to hammer MBF if nobody has anything new to say.

[mikeburnfire]

Yeah, but it took most of the town as well, and I don't see Izzy as more to blame for it than to next guy, if anything Gorrad is. So I don't get why you singled her out on this

Crywolf tried to push it. I'm not saying Gorrad's clean, but Crywolf is at fault as well.

being neighbors with archon is a non-factor here.

Actually, it's not. It's why he was lynched.

Are you being intentionally dense? I was talking about posting my townreads, everyone I actually suspect I already listed.

So you have no comment whatsoever on Karne, dahill, Mac, or TSQ? You don't think any of them is scummier than another? We've already heard the same old arguments against Gorrad, me, and Scot, so I would like to know what your opinion of the

others

would be.

1) Izzy is pushing a relevant suspect that's most likely gonna be lynched and therefore will be held accountalbe for her actions tomorrow, which is only a good move if you're scum as well and even then her actions don't feel like bussing.

Are you promising to lynch Izzy for me once I'm dead and come up town?

2) I don't feel Izzy's intentionally trying to lay low.

Izzy hasn't presented a single case on ANYBODY. All he's done is try to defend himself and cower behind other peoples' bandwagons.

3) Izzy has other redeeming factors. Namely, her predecessors' claim and her wagon sucking hard.

While the claim is disptuable, I will admit that the early bandwagon on

her

was based on loose ground. However, the wagon now is different from the wagon then.

You keep mentioning that her behavior since replacing in seem 'genuine town', but when pressed on that you don't talk about her behavior. You talk about the weak bandwagon on her from early in the game. But just because somebody makes a poor case against her early in the game doesn't stop her from actually being scum, especially if she hasn't even done anything town-ish.

[scotmany12]

So I have been debating on whether or not to use this for a while now, and I have decided that now is a good time. I am so confident that Gorrad is scum that I am going to take his fate into my own hands now (how's this for accountable RR). I would have much rather saved this for later, but I feel now is a good time to use it, seeing as how people aren't listening to me, and Gorrad is not in any real danger of getting lynched. Also, I can now focus on others with him dead.

Kill: Gorrad

. Diescumdie.